Making Money

[dodad]

Does anyone on here invest there money in stocks?

I have been looking for faster cash returns and of course more risk but hopefully more results.

I had $4000 in geo-thermal stocks but they have been in there for 7 years and yet worth nothing.

Figured there might be some kinda stock guys on here???? Hint!

[dodad]

Wish i had a friend in the security commissions of alberta!!!!!!

[jaysas_63]

http://forums.beyond.ca/showthread.php?s=&threadid=27592

try looking there

[dodad]

well i can re-phrase and say what is the best possible starting out stock price that one should jump in?

10 cents or is that too cheap?

[KLCC]

look for another breX.....

[dodad]

who is breX?

[Weapon_R]

There's no way to make fast cash. Sorry.

[Smokem]

Originally posted by dodad
who is breX?

If you don't know, then you shouldn't be playing stocks. You're in the market against Financial Analysts with years of education, Investment Banks with enough cash to make you squirm and day traders who would consider $4000 to be pocket change.

[sputnik]

Put $4000 into the BMO Dividend account and collect your 12-15% annually.

[Weapon_R]

Originally posted by Smokem


If you don't know, then you shouldn't be playing stocks. You're in the market against Financial Analysts with years of education, Investment Banks with enough cash to make you squirm and day traders who would consider $4000 to be pocket change.

That's not really fair to say. Everyone starts somewhere and 4k is a decent amount to learn with. I think that you should do the dividend fund too. There's so much to lose if you don't do it right, so it would be in your best interest to

4000 @ 13% + yearly contributions of 4000 will net you nearly 800,000 in 25 years. If I were you, i'd do that.

When you have enough (~1m), use the interest to live off and never work a day in your life. 800k @ 12% will get you $104,000/year, a fantastic income.

[Xtrema]

Originally posted by dodad
Does anyone on here invest there money in stocks?

I have been looking for faster cash returns and of course more risk but hopefully more results.

I had $4000 in geo-thermal stocks but they have been in there for 7 years and yet worth nothing.

Figured there might be some kinda stock guys on here???? Hint!

People with fast cash mentality is just like gambling, you'll win a few but stay in the game too long, you'll eventually lose out.

[Rav4Guy]

Originally posted by Xtrema


People with fast cash mentality is just like gambling, you'll win a few but stay in the game too long, you'll eventually lose out.

uhhh.... true and not true. You'll of course need to have a long term goal.. but making quick trades doesn't mean you'll end up losing out in the long run. Prime example, day traders and bond traders.

you can't be rash in making decisions.... but on the other hand.. you can't sit there and think if you should invest in a particular security for a week.

Make sure that $4000 or however much you have is something you can play with. There's no point in investing that money if you have bills bills bills.

[lastprodigy]

Originally posted by sputnik
Put $4000 into the BMO Dividend account and collect your 12-15% annually.

:werd: haha though in the first 3 months my dividen fund gained about 13% :D ....lost about half of that though since the tsx took a plunge of late...still good steady money :)

[dodad]

this bmo dividend account is there a minimum and maximum you can put in?

is there a contract how long it has to be in there?

pentaly on withdrawing it for emergencies or something?

[Rav4Guy]

If you want some real good advice.. speak to a financial advisor at a bank for FREE. They're educated in this matter and you'll always have someone to blame if your financial goals aren't being met. :(

People make money doing lots of things... like selling drugs... you're not going to follow that route. Do what it is best for YOU and what's comfortable.

To start out... I'd personally look at mutual funds to "get your feet wet" and then later down the road.. read up on other types of securities.

[Smokem]

For every investment in the world, there exists a certain amount of risk associated with the reward, the higher the risk, the higher the potential reward.

If you find a discrepency in that, then you have what is considered a better than (above) average investment or an arbitragable opportunity...

Weapon R, my previous comment was aimed at the notion that if you are to invest without thorough knowledge, you should be prepared to lose it all... you can't (normally) make 25% without risk. People who invest in artwork or IPO's, for example, are taking massive risks of failure, but reap good returns.

Rav4Guy, you are absolutely correct. It all depends on your long term objective, and your immediate, short term and long term intentions to get there. If you had $1 and need $1 million in 5 years, you need to double up real often, real quick and take big gambles (that work in your favor every time). If you had $4000 and need $10,000 in 5 years, that's a different story

There's another finance saying - "averse selection" --> in the absense of information, a buyer will overpay. This is true for everything you will buy (invest) in your life.

example - If you don't know what a Celeron laptop costs and go into Future Shop, you'll get hosed for something that someone else wants you to buy; if you do your research, you can find the best deal and what you really need. Same is true for investments - do your due diligence, then proceed from there. To perform due diligence, you have to have a degree of quantitative skill and most importantly, common sense.

example - WestJet or Air Canada? Is the airline industry even worth investing in? What other industry can net out better returns at this point in the stage? Energy? Financials? Tech?

the thought process that should follow is - WestJet has a better business model, but AC is restructuring... right now a safe bet is WestJet. BUT the airline industry is not a successful one in general to invest long term in right now, regardless of business model. OK well let's look at Energy stock - the O&G market is really hot right now, would make a decent investment for 1-2 years. But not big companies, if you want capital gains, look for the junior/startup companies that have proven reserves. Retail? Maybe for two more months, retail tends to go up in Nov/December... Financials - always a decent bet for long long term, banks will always be around, money will always be invested/saved. Tech - know the companies you're in, know them cold, you can lose good money here if you're not careful.

I am a top 10% Finance graduate yet I still don't know what the hell is going on out there. One thing I know is that if I had a stock pick, I wouldn't even tell you because I would capitalize on it, and by the time you found out, it would have been too late as the markets would have corrected themselves. This is why they are so hard on people who do insider trading. High amounts of information = lots of adverse selection for normal investors.

With that said, go through and think of companies you know, and have dealt with in the past. With the exception of a few sectors, you probably have a half decent notion of what companies are doing. Watch ROBTV and get a notion for how the markets have been performing... Mad Money is a decent show for good plays as well (what Cramer says does make sense, and he actually does move markets, BUT buyer beware still).

Hope this helps.

[Rav4Guy]

For sure Smokem.... the high inflow/outflow of information between investors and companies make it hard for stock tips to be useful for very long. Market correction happens pretty darn fast and people telling you to buy this and that stocks is most likely helping themselves as well as it'll create volume(not much with $4000) and driving up prices.

work with sectors that YOU are familiar with... as you have the basic knowledge of what the industry is up to. I would know nothing as to what is happening to the precious metal sector as opposed to someone that works in that field. You would know what mines are opening.. or etc.

good examples smokem.

research research research.

[Smokem]

Big news today - HBC is looking to be taken over by Jerry Zucker of Maple Leaf Heritage Investments... look into that, if not to invest in or play on (short term), to get an idea of how M&A works

[Smokem]

When I was in school, my Finance prof at the time was telling me of how some currency houses could make trades on a fifth of a decimal place differential in foreign exchange rate, ie $0.00001 and make tons of money. Gives you an idea of how efficient the market really is.

[Rav4Guy]

Originally posted by Smokem
When I was in school, my Finance prof at the time was telling me of how some currency houses could make trades on a fifth of a decimal place differential in foreign exchange rate, ie $0.00001 and make tons of money. Gives you an idea of how efficient the market really is.

currency markets = make $$$$$$$$ = need $$$$$$$$

[lastprodigy]

Originally posted by dodad
this bmo dividend account is there a minimum and maximum you can put in?

is there a contract how long it has to be in there?

pentaly on withdrawing it for emergencies or something?

maybe like 50 bucks a month to start as a minimum if you go monthly....i jsu tstrated with 5K or so....you can withdraw or add on at any time for no fee.....and there is a small fee (of course) but is tiny and irrelevant IMO..:) no contract

[benyl]

Originally posted by Smokem
Big news today - HBC is looking to be taken over by Jerry Zucker of Maple Leaf Heritage Investments... look into that, if not to invest in or play on (short term), to get an idea of how M&A works

It is already too late to get into HBC.

To me, it looks like it will be a long drawn out process like the Fido aquisition. But then again, I really don't know anything.

[benyl]

Originally posted by Smokem
When I was in school, my Finance prof at the time was telling me of how some currency houses could make trades on a fifth of a decimal place differential in foreign exchange rate, ie $0.00001 and make tons of money. Gives you an idea of how efficient the market really is.

haha, yeah, when you are moving over a Billion dollars.

I had a friend who was a foreign exchange trader. He had MAD stress. The next job he had: Air traffic controller.

I think the guy likes stress.

[Smokem]

Originally posted by benyl


It is already too late to get into HBC.

To me, it looks like it will be a long drawn out process like the Fido aquisition. But then again, I really don't know anything.

They were hot in the 90's back when Scratch & Save was around... but since then and WalMart coming into play (along with pretty much every single American clothing manufacturer in existence) they've slipped. The bid was for 14.75, and analysts aimed for a 16.00 bid on it

I must admit, they have gotten creative with Home Outfitters and Designer Depot (at Northland)

On a general (and I do mean broad, big picture) note, I think other sectors really need to learn how to integrate their M&A's a bit better... O&G companies seem to do transactions really well... different product I know, but the difficulty in M&A is trying to make things seamless. But then I argue, if it is NOT seamless, were there synergies to begin with?!

[Smokem]

Originally posted by benyl


haha, yeah, when you are moving over a Billion dollars.

I had a friend who was a foreign exchange trader. He had MAD stress. The next job he had: Air traffic controller.

I think the guy likes stress.

LOL! Is that a true story or a joke? I've heard something like that before!

[Rav4Guy]

Originally posted by Smokem


They were hot in the 90's back when Scratch & Save was around... but since then and WalMart coming into play (along with pretty much every single American clothing manufacturer in existence) they've slipped. The bid was for 14.75, and analysts aimed for a 16.00 bid on it

On a general (and I do mean broad, big picture) note, I think other sectors really need to learn how to integrate their M&A's a bit better... O&G companies seem to do transactions really well... different product I know, but the difficulty in M&A is trying to make things seamless. But then I argue, if it is NOT seamless, were there synergies to begin with?!

hostile takeovers are always difficult.

Rogers and fido worked out well because they have a common market/goal. If telus bought fido... that would not gone over so well.

[Smokem]

Now again, I am no expert either, but one of the big wireless telecom mergers that I thought was pretty well executed was Telus taking on Clearnet. IMO, it was such a good takeover on the marketing side, client base growth and product expansion (Mike).

[ninjak84]

Originally posted by Weapon_R
4000 @ 13% + yearly contributions of 4000 will net you nearly 800,000 in 25 years. If I were you, i'd do that.

When you have enough (~1m), use the interest to live off and never work a day in your life. 800k @ 12% will get you $104,000/year, a fantastic income.

lol

[benyl]

It didn't go as well as it could of. TELUS could have bought Clearnet 2 years before it finally did and would have save a few billion dollars. The board of directors voted against it.

Without Clearnet, TELUS would be in pretty bad shape right now.

[Smokem]

Originally posted by benyl
It didn't go as well as it could of. TELUS could have bought Clearnet 2 years before it finally did and would have save a few billion dollars. The board of directors voted against it.

Without Clearnet, TELUS would be in pretty bad shape right now.

So this is where the whole proactive / reactive argument comes into play. When companies move proactively to acquire others, it might be perceived as over-levering (Forzani is notorious for that) and hence, oversaturating the marketplace and potentially cannibalizing sales. But I do agree with you; without Clearnet, they would not be doing quite as well. Telus Mobility is definitely one of the strong-arms of the firm, pretty consistent ARPU and retention rates, all else equal.

Good disucssion benyl and Rav4Guy!

[dodad]

Well thanks guys.

[dodad]

Originally posted by sputnik
Put $4000 into the BMO Dividend account and collect your 12-15% annually.

how can a bank give people that much interest???

[sputnik]

Originally posted by dodad
how can a bank give people that much interest???

Its not interest. Its a mutual fund whose rates go up and down according to the TSX. However this fund just happens to be really well managed and out performs the market on average.

[dodad]

Originally posted by sputnik


Its not interest. Its a mutual fund whose rates go up and down according to the TSX. However this fund just happens to be really well managed and out performs the market on average.

okay thanks

[sputnik]

Originally posted by Smokem
example - WestJet or Air Canada? Is the airline industry even worth investing in? What other industry can net out better returns at this point in the stage? Energy? Financials? Tech?

the thought process that should follow is - WestJet has a better business model, but AC is restructuring... right now a safe bet is WestJet. BUT the airline industry is not a successful one in general to invest long term in right now, regardless of business model.

:werd:

The airline industry is WAY to cut-throat right now. Each airline seems to be undercutting the next one. Resulting in VERY low margins (less profit).

I would stay FAR away from and airline and tourism stocks right now.

Personally I would be looking to large monopoly Telcos and Cable providers. Shaw and Telus are pretty good long term holds and should be able to weather any storms (look how well Telus has done through the strike).

I would also be buying TSX Group (X) right now. It has taken a bit of a beating this past quarter but it will be a GREAT hold long term. I started buying at $60 a couple of years ago and it dropped to about $44 (but I kept buying). Then it climbed back to almost $70 then split (2 for 1) and climbed back up to $45 and I almost doubled my money.

I dont gamble the market looking for 500% returns in 2 days. I invest, take my 10-20% and get out.

[max_boost]

I'm looking at the RBC Dividend fund, it's averaged 15% since inception :eek:

What's the buying and selling fees? I can't seem to find the information.

For my AIM funds, it didn't cost anything to buy in but if I sell in year 1 it's 7% fees and it goes down by 1% each year until year 8 so it forces you to hold on to them for a while which isn't a problem since it's RRSP directed.

I'm not sure if the above is the 'standard' or if it varies depending on the fund and company.

I think I very much prefer these mutual funds than stock holdings. My entire portfolio went down 8% because of Clearwater, bastards!!!!:thumbsdow :guns: :rofl:

[sputnik]

Originally posted by max_boost
What's the buying and selling fees? I can't seem to find the information.

For my AIM funds, it didn't cost anything to buy in but if I sell in year 1 it's 7% fees and it goes down by 1% each year until year 8 so it forces you to hold on to them for a while which isn't a problem since it's RRSP directed.


That is pretty typical for "no-load" mutuals. You are better off comparing MERs (management expense ratios) of each fund. That will tell you how much you are paying for each fund.

The BMO and RBC dividend funds are both no load (7 yr hold without penalty) and have an MER of 1.77-1.79%. Not bad for a low minimum investment fund that seems to be doing quite well lately.

If you are a baller get this fund. Only 1.17% MER but there is a $25,000 minimum investment.

http://globefunddb.theglobeandmail.com/gishome/plsql/gis.fund_pro?fundname=PH%26N+Dividend+Income-A&pi_universe=PUBLIC_FUND&product_id=

In general compare funds at www.globefund.com they have all of the Canadian funds available with tons of information.

[Weapon_R]

MERs are the commission rates that the banks take on the gains?

[sputnik]

Originally posted by Weapon_R
MERs are the commission rates that the banks take on the gains?

Basically. Not really a "commission" per se. More of a "management fee" that ultimately go to the managers and traders for each fund.

[Weapon_R]

I've looked at the link you provided, and the highest fund seems to be RBCs, ~10%. I know that some dividends give much higher rates, however. Am I reading something wrong?

[sputnik]

I think you are looking at the 3 month rate (the amount you would have made in the last 3 months holding the fund).

Here is a better way to view all of the dividend funds. This shows the average rate per year that you would be getting over the past 1, 3, 5, 10 and 15 years (along with the rate per year since inception).

http://globefunddb.theglobeandmail.com/gishome/plsql/gis.gen_fr?in_rep_type=LT&in_sort_col=STD_fund+name&in_orig_start=+&in_curr_val=+&in_orig_fund=+&in_curr_fund=+&in_direction=FWD&fr_param1=dividend&fr_param2=+&fr_param3=+&fr_param4=+&fr_param5=+&fr_param6=+&fr_param7=+&fr_param8=+&fr_param9=+&fr_param10=+&fr_mode=FUNDNAME&msg=+&page_no=1&generation=+&orig_col=REP_TYPE&orig_order=ASC&result_cnt=128&fr_param11=&fr_param12=&fr_param13=&fr_param14=&pi_universe=PUBLIC_FUND&product_id=&pi_totass_value=All&pi_mininv_value=All&pi_currency=All