NHL's best Rookie

[fordo_11]

Seeing as the NHL didn't include Phaneuf in their poll I think it is only right we hold one on Beyond to get the real numbers.

[mac_82]

well being slightly biased here on Beyond I am pretty sure Phaneuf will win. :goflames: He is by far the best rookie D man, but he will loose out to the likes of Crosby and Ovechkin.

[88CRX]

Crosby will win.... if you've watched any Pens games on tv you will understand why. The kid is frickin amazing..... he's good, just like Ovechkin, but Crosby makes the players around him even better as well.

/calder trophie

:D

[bspot]

Originally posted by mac_82
well being slightly biased here on Beyond I am pretty sure Phaneuf will win. :goflames: He is by far the best rookie D man, but he will loose out to the likes of Crosby and Ovechkin.

Lose, not loose!!! Your mother is Loose, Dion will lose.


Ovechkin >>> Crosby.

Look at the plays Ovechkin makes, all by himself. Crosby is just getting a shit load of assists because of his linemates. Ovechkin has way more goals, and obviously less assists, because he's playing for the Crapitals. Ovechkin on a good team would be scarrrrry.

[Dave P]

Originally posted by bspot


Ovechkin >>>> Crosby.





:thumbsup: :thumbsup:

[heavyD]

Originally posted by bspot
Look at the plays Ovechkin makes, all by himself. Crosby is just getting a shit load of assists because of his linemates. Ovechkin has way more goals, and obviously less assists, because he's playing for the Crapitals. Ovechkin on a good team would be scarrrrry.

I totally agree. Crosby plays with Lemiex & Recchi, Ovechkin plays with..........nobody. Its actually not even close when you consider most of Crosby's points are assists and lets face it, a second assist on a lot of goals is a free point IMO. Ovechkin is tied for 5th in the league for goals and only four out of first. Every team that plays Washington puts their best checking line on Ovechkin as he is the only legit threat on the Caps and he still scores goals. Even Pat Quinn said Ovechkin is the best kid he's seen in a long time.

[sputnik]

Originally posted by bspot
Lose, not loose!!! Your mother is Loose, Dion will lose.


:werd:

That is one of the more annoying spelling errors that frequenly occurs on Beyond. Along with the following...

"I need new disk breaks"
"Auto sucks, manuel is much better"

[Kirbs17]

I think Phanuef is still the best rookie. hand that man a calder. hes loggin the most minutes out of all rookies, hes doing very well in defense scoring, has one hell of a shot, lays bodies out, hell he can do it all. Its just such a shame he was a huge dick in Red Deer (outside of hockey) otherwise there would be more fanfare for him up here

[l8braker]

Crosby

[Hakkola]

Holy bias! There's no way Dion Pheneuf is as good as Crosby or Ovechkin :rofl:

He's great don't get me wrong, he's an awesome d-man, best rookie d-man easily, he's one of my favorite d-men in the league, but better that Crosby and Ovechkin??

[Aleks]

Ovechkin.

[stevieo]

Originally posted by Hakkola
Holy bias! There's no way Dion Pheneuf is as good as Crosby or Ovechkin :rofl:

He's great don't get me wrong, he's an awesome d-man, best rookie d-man easily, he's one of my favorite d-men in the league, but better that Crosby and Ovechkin??

well their roles are completely diffrent, i don't see how anyone can base a defenseman to an offensive forward. the three are all franchise players in the making.

i can't seem to imagine what ovechkin can do with a good team. the guy is a scoring threat, crosby is one smooth playmaker, and phanuef will be a cornerstone on the defence corp.

crosby will most likely win, unless an injury occurs or if ovechkin dominates him in points standings by around 10 points. PHANUEF will win the calder if he generates buzz outside of calgary. aka, when going out east, shows that he can dominate the game with his defensive plays while throwing some offensve in the game. nobody notices defensive plays, for every 20 defensive plays dion makes we will remember one, for every one offensive feat that crosby or ovechkin make everyone will remember it.

[dericer]

Just look at the conference that Ovechkin and Crosby play in. It's horrible. Plus they just score points.

Point don't equal ability.

You see Phaneuf who's a defenceman, which the position alone won't allow for more than 40 points, but is leading the powerplay, showing great poise and leadership.

Dion is an all around better player. But since he won't get as many points as Ovechkin, and Crosby. The American Sports media won't look at him.

[Nissanaddict]

Originally posted by stevieo


well their roles are completely diffrent, i don't see how anyone can base a defenseman to an offensive forward. the three are all franchise players in the making.

i can't seem to imagine what ovechkin can do with a good team. the guy is a scoring threat, crosby is one smooth playmaker, and phanuef will be a cornerstone on the defence corp.

crosby will most likely win, unless an injury occurs or if ovechkin dominates him in points standings by around 10 points. PHANUEF will win the calder if he generates buzz outside of calgary. aka, when going out east, shows that he can dominate the game with his defensive plays while throwing some offensve in the game. nobody notices defensive plays, for every 20 defensive plays dion makes we will remember one, for every one offensive feat that crosby or ovechkin make everyone will remember it.

:werd: There's still tons of time to go. We have no idea how it will all unfold.

[heavyD]

Originally posted by dericer
Just look at the conference that Ovechkin and Crosby play in. It's horrible. Plus they just score points.

Point don't equal ability.

You see Phaneuf who's a defenceman, which the position alone won't allow for more than 40 points, but is leading the powerplay, showing great poise and leadership.

Dion is an all around better player. But since he won't get as many points as Ovechkin, and Crosby. The American Sports media won't look at him.

Phaneuf is a easily the best D-man of this rookie crop and deserves consideration but you only have to watch a couple of Flames games too see that gifted scorers such as Crosby or Ovechkin are at a premium. The flames can plug and play with their defensemen but if you take out Iggy, they are done.

Even being the flames fan I am, there is no way I could vote Phaneuf over Ovechkin.

[88CRX]

Couple things....

First off the Calder trophie will only go to a defensman if there arent any stud rookie forwards and goalie.... it just doesnt happen. And i'm sorry to say it buy Dion WILL NOT win the Calder trophie this year.

Second off, I think some of you guys need to watch some more hockey games featuring Crosby and Ovechkin. It easy to say that the players Crosby plays with make him better.... yes maybe, but have watched any Pittsburgh games? Crosby makes his linemates better!

On the other hand besides a few nice dangles and power play points Ovechkin does not dominate or make his teamates better like Crosby has been doing.

Simply saying Crosby is better cause his teamates isnt fair if you are only basing your opion on rosters and stats on paper.

Crosby > Ovechkin.




Originally posted by Kirbs17
Its just such a shame he was a huge dick in Red Deer (outside of hockey) otherwise there would be more fanfare for him up here

:werd: the other day we met him after a game (flames won) and he was kinda an ass :dunno: just seemed like he didnt feel the need to meet some fans and we were just wasting his time.

oh btw dion, the fans pay your salary ;)

[88CRX]

Originally posted by dericer
Dion is an all around better player.

Dion Phaneuff is getting to much credit from some of you guys. He is a rookie and is making ALOT of mistakes out there. Bertuzzi made him look like a rookie d-man just the other night.

Dont get me wrong... Dion is good, but Ovechkin and Crosby are great. They're star players. Dion one day will be a stud d-man but not yet... he has so much to learn.

[SteveMo600]

Originally posted by 88CRX


Dion Phaneuff is getting to much credit from some of you guys. He is a rookie and is making ALOT of mistakes out there. Bertuzzi made him look like a rookie d-man just the other night.

Dont get me wrong... Dion is good, but Ovechkin and Crosby are great. They're star players. Dion one day will be a stud d-man but not yet... he has so much to learn.

AGREED! If this wasn't a Calgary based forum, Phaneuf wouldn't be getting nearly the recognition we're giving him.

He has great potential but is not the best rookie this year. Rarely a D-Man is, just because defensemen need a few seasons to mature while goal scorers don't necessarily need that.

I'm a Crosby fan. He just seems like a much more gritty player. I think that Ovechkin is benefitting from the new NHL rules more though.

[DelSoln]

Originally posted by dericer
You see Phaneuf who's a defenceman, which the position alone won't allow for more than 40 points.

This statement is absolutely ludicrous. Guaranteed there will be more then a few defenceman with over 40 points this year. Hell even McCabe and Visnovsky have more then half of this all might exclusive 40 point plateau which you speak of :rofl:. I should mention there are also 65 games or more left to play for these guys. Anyways I would give the vote to Crosby as of right now. By the way it's nice though to see all you Calgary fans showing so much love for our Edmonton boy though. :thumbsup:

[lastprodigy]

Originally posted by 88CRX


Dion Phaneuff is getting to much credit from some of you guys. He is a rookie and is making ALOT of mistakes out there. Bertuzzi made him look like a rookie d-man just the other night.

Dont get me wrong... Dion is good, but Ovechkin and Crosby are great. They're star players. Dion one day will be a stud d-man but not yet... he has so much to learn.

Im glad to hear this from an avid Flames fan (who for once I actually agree with), being a Canucks fan myself, I agree that he will be one of the better D-men in the league one day, but he is not in the likes of Crosby and Ovechkin. Hometown bias much?

[bspot]

Originally posted by sputnik


"Auto sucks, manuel is much better"

I myself prefer the Jose transmission :rofl:

[calgarygts]

Maybe this will make it easier to vote: who would you rather have on your team if you could have any one of them?

[philipoo]

ovechkins tougher than crosby hense all the body checking he did.
Crosby gets played around like a puppet

[lastprodigy]

Originally posted by bspot


I myself prefer the Jose transmission :rofl:

no Pedro?:D:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

[Orbie]

Originally posted by calgarygts
Maybe this will make it easier to vote: who would you rather have on your team if you could have any one of them?

Ovechkin hands down, look how he plays on a team full of poor performers. Now just imagine how he'd play if he had one or two great linemen with him like Crosby does. Nothing against Sid, but it's easier to be good when you have help.

[ca2p3r]

ovechkin !

:goflames: :D

[88CRX]

Originally posted by philipoo
ovechkins tougher than crosby hense all the body checking he did.
Crosby gets played around like a puppet

riiiiiiight :rolleyes:

[dezmarez]

ovechkin is the best rookie so far
crosby is playing with lemieux palffy recchi leclair gonchar...and so on
all of whom have proved they are goal scorers
anyone who plays with them has a chance to rack up points
ovechkin has more goals then crosby, better plus minus, more powerplay points, more game winning goals and less games played
im not saying crosby is terrible
he is one of the best playing so far
but imagine ovechkin playing with an above average player
or a playmaker like forsberg
his productivity would easily exceed crosbys

oh haha and ovechkin 1 goal tonight
and the only shootout goal to win the game

:)
GO CAPS haha

[max_boost]

Ovechkin is such a game breaker. From what I have seen so far and from what the statistics indicate, Crosby is a play maker and Ovechkin is a finisher. I pick Ovechkin, I love watching highlight reel goals :D

[philipoo]

Originally posted by 88CRX


riiiiiiight :rolleyes:


rightt... x2! :love:

[googe]

anyone that says crosby has been playing better than ovechkin clearly hasnt watched much of either player or theyre being a fanboy. granted crosby has finally scored a couple goals, most of the points he racked up were weak 3rd assists, people cleaning up his rebounds, accidental deflections, stuff like that. hes had very few clean goals until recently. his assists havent been playmaker assists either, nothing like a lemieux or spezza assist where they hand you a goal...there is a huge difference if you actually watch it. numbers dont tell the story.

ovechkin on the other hand is pretty amazing and can score clean goals all day long with no help. hes underrated and crosby is overrated.

[gaijin]

Huh, I'm the only vote for Lundqvist.

Based on the impact a rookie has had for their team, I'd put Lundqvist first. His strong performance in the early season really got the Rangers rolling. I think their record now is a reflection of the strong goaltending they got from Lundqvist.

Ovechkin is a very close second, though. There's a rookie that's actually literally won games for his team. Washington still isn't doing too well, which is why I'd put Lundqvist first, but he's definitely right up there, and I wouldn't be surprised if he won the Calder.

Crosby is doing very well, but he still can't lead his team to victory, even with the support cast he has. Actually, I wouldn't doubt if his support cast is the reason he hasn't had the impact that might have been expected. With so many strong players on that team, Crosby isn't relied on as much. Ultimately, I think there just isn't enough team chemistry on the Penguins because there's so much top end talent...

Phaneuf is doing great. Iginla still carries the Flames, but Phaneuf has been turning it up lately. My vote now is based on standings now, but Phaneuf is making a solid case for himself. Who knows how things will turn out by the end of the season?

(oh, Jason Labarbera has been great too! can't forget him. hopefully he comes back from his personal leave of absence soon, because I have him in a hockey pool...)

[Vagabond142]

Phaneuf: takes an aggressive defensive stance, pushes hard when he has the puck, has a slap shot one timer to make goalies shit their pants, and is good at getting the puck through the neutral zone quickly for breaks and fast attacks. And he's on our team :goflames: :goflames:

[Nissanaddict]

Yeah. He can even deke out the odd player every now and then. I probably wouldn't think he's rookie of the year (so far it seems so to me, cuz I haven't watched other teams play terribly much, all I've seen is highlights, so I won't vote until I have a better opinion) but ya never know. Phaneuf might be better than he's showing right now. And he's already damn good.

[davidI]

Vanek is the man! He won't win it but he deserves a lot more attention than he's getting.

[Orbie]

Originally posted by Vagabond142
Phaneuf: ...has a slap shot one timer to make goalies shit their pants,...

Yeah when they're not busy laughing themselves silly at his accuracy. He seems to have better luck with wristing it 40+ ft out then slapping it.

[Paul1234]

Originally posted by 88CRX
Crosby will win.... if you've watched any Pens games on tv you will understand why. The kid is frickin amazing..... he's good, just like Ovechkin, but Crosby makes the players around him even better as well.

/calder trophie

:D

:werd:

[stevieo]

Originally posted by Orbie


Yeah when they're not busy laughing themselves silly at his accuracy. He seems to have better luck with wristing it 40+ ft out then slapping it.

i believe within a year or so he will get his accuracy down, he will be pinning shots down like the one we used to call chopper. i seem to remember people giving him one hell of a time when he first joined the nhl...but what do you know he blasted a shot and broke someones helment/mask.

[brettg]

phaneuf is so solid it is remarkable, he is among the league leaders in ice time which is unreal for a rookie. I think there should be 2 seperate catagories when it comes to this rookie shit, cause there is no way he will ever get the recognition he deserves. he is more valuable at this point to his team than a lot of other players in the league buy far.

[88CRX]

Originally posted by brettg
phaneuf is so solid it is remarkable, he is among the league leaders in ice time which is unreal for a rookie. I think there should be 2 seperate catagories when it comes to this rookie shit, cause there is no way he will ever get the recognition he deserves. he is more valuable at this point to his team than a lot of other players in the league buy far.

Phaneuff is gonna have a huuuuge ego before he turns 21.... even the other day Sutter was saying how Hamerlik is making Phaneuff a better player on the ice and that Hammer isnt getting enough credit.

['02SiR]

phaneuff had a huuuuge ego when he hit grade 5. i used to beat his ass in hockey too. he's a daddy's boy, big time!

but now i dont play hockey, im fat and i smoke:thumbsup:

[Barlow]

Originally posted by 88CRX
Crosby will win.... if you've watched any Pens games on tv you will understand why. The kid is frickin amazing..... he's good, just like Ovechkin, but Crosby makes the players around him even better as well.

/calder trophie

:D

yeah crosby has a lot of help though, ovechkin has no one, he does it all be him self,

I still want crosby to win it but He's Canadian so hes pretty much for sure going to win....:thumbsup:

[Barlow]

Originally posted by sputnik


:werd:

That is one of the more annoying spelling errors that frequenly occurs on Beyond. Along with the following...

"I need new disk breaks"
"Auto sucks, manuel is much better"


maybe manuel is their secret gay lover :rofl:

[88CRX]

Originally posted by Barlow


yeah crosby has a lot of help though, ovechkin has no one, he does it all be him self,

I still want crosby to win it but He's Canadian so hes pretty much for sure going to win....:thumbsup:

Crosby might have help.... but CROSBY MAKE HIS LINEMATES BETTER AS WELL!

[SneakyNeek]

wait isnt staal of the hurricanes a rookie?

[DelSoln]

^No he is a sophomore and has already matched his rookie point total. :eek:

[SneakyNeek]

ooo okai


well then its gotta be crosby

[fordo_11]

No one thinks Marek Svatos deserves it :eek:, he has put up as many points as Ovechkinin as many games for 11 goals and 12 Assists and he plays about half the minutes Ovechkin and Crosby do, and he is in the less offensive Western Conference. As well I believe he was leading the league at one point (if not still now) with Game Winning Goals. This kid is great and no one is giving him any credit, just like Phaneuf. The east is blind to what good hockey players are doing in the West, I have to say I am a little surprised people on here aren't giving him the credit he deserves. This whole awards thing the NHL has is Bullshit :bullshit: . Just like the Flames getting shut out in the awards last year when they made the run to the stanley cup. Come on start paying attention to the whole league, the game is better in the West anyways. :goflames:

[dericer]

I found this interesting.

http://www.nhl.com/features/spotlight/phaneuf113005.html

[88CRX]

Originally posted by fordo_11
Just like the Flames getting shut out in the awards last year when they made the run to the stanley cup. Come on start paying attention to the whole league, the game is better in the West anyways. :goflames:

They pick there winners at the end of the regular season. The playoffs have nothing to do with any of the awards leaque awards.

[DelSoln]

^With the exception of the Conn Smythe.

[dericer]

According to NHL.com

Crosby, and Ovechkin got the sizzle, but Phaneuf brings the steak.

If american sports writers think Phaneuf is better, maybe he does have a chance for the Calder?

http://www.nhl.com/features/iceage/main.html

[sCream]

Originally posted by Kirbs17
I think Phanuef is still the best rookie. hand that man a calder. hes loggin the most minutes out of all rookies

I think many of you guys are forgetting Ryan Whitney and Brent Seabrook as solid rookie defencemen. I mean dont get me wrong i still think Phaneuf is the better of the three but not by the leaps and bounds as most here think. Also, Whitney is averaging more time on ice per game than Phaneuf, and would most likely have a higher total ice time if it werent for his injury.

I voted for Ovechkin, i was all for Crosby, but you gotta hand it to Ovechkin, hes one exciting player to watch, i havent seen many garbage goals from him, all finesse/highlight reel goals.
So yeah, put me in the group that think that Crosby and Ovechkin >> Phaneuf

[Aleks]

Anyone still think Crosby is a better rookie? LOL I said it before and I'll say it again

Ovechkin >>> Crosby.

:thumbsup:

[Despair*]

My vote goes for Ovechkin as well. The guy is an absolute Monster on the Ice :clap:

[stevieo]

look at ovechkins supporting class, the guy is dominating with 3rd and 4th line players on the first line haha.

[mac_82]

Biggest rookie surprise this year?

Svatos. 7th round pick, 227th overall in 2001.

Best rookie this year?

Ovechkin.

[joyridder]

ovechkin;)

[l8braker]

Alright who will be the first to post the vid of the goal?

:drool: :drool: :drool:

[Nissanaddict]

Ovechkin. Undoubtedly. Hard to choose between him and Phaneuf, but Phaneuf is part of a great defensive team (although he played awesome even while paired with Marchment) and defense is usually a harder position to learn. But Ovechkin is probably the only reason the Caps are doing better than the Blues. Wow, only with my vote did he tie Phaneuf as well in this poll.....Crosby's fallin behind.

[l8braker]

Dion is a great player, but he's not even close to Ovechkin, and Crosby... He's a Flames and thats the reason most voted that way. Sad but true.

[Orbie]

Haha what no Crosby Fan boys anymore? took over half the season but I'm glad now everyone sees the truth. Best part about Ovechkin is he seems to have grown up, I haven't seen any of the showboating that he used to be notorious for. Crosby on the other hand is an awesome player no doubt, but he's got to get his temper under control. The guy loses it for no reason when other players are goating him and it works almost everytime! When Crosby's in the box the rest of his team suffers, he's got to learn that. Didn't see Ovechkin losing it when he was getting tossed like a rag doll by Chara!

[l8braker]

^ Agree, he will be a great player, his temper and ego are starting to get the best of him.. If he's cut out to be the next great one, geting it under control shouldn't be a problem... The other night on Tsn, some guy close to the team was saying that some of the older guys can't stand him and his attitude. He's telling the vets like Odelin and Recchi where and how to play :nut: That's why they're letting him fend for himself.

[googe]

Originally posted by l8braker
^ Agree, he will be a great player, his temper and ego are starting to get the best of him.. If he's cut out to be the next great one, geting it under control shouldn't be a problem... The other night on Tsn, some guy close to the team was saying that some of the older guys can't stand him and his attitude. He's telling the vets like Odelin and Recchi where and how to play :nut: That's why they're letting him fend for himself.

yeah ive seen a couple games where he was mic'd. id have punched him out if i was one of the veterans. he'd be leaning over the bench repeating stuff like "finish up those plays! come on guys we gonna finish up those plays!" heh, like sit down and stfu kid :)

[FiveFreshFish]

Have a look at the previous winners. Sergei Makarov was 31 when he won.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Calder_Memorial_Trophy

[Street_Soldier]

^^ Thats because he wasnt really a rookie. He played with the pros in Russia and came over.

I think Ovechkin deserves to win. He has made more of an impact than Corsby has. Though I think Crosby is a better all round player. Ovechkin played 3 seasons with professionals already and has more experience at professional level. Crosby will be just as good as Ovechkin is now or better in a few years.

I dont think Phanuef will win simply because hes not at the level of Ovechkin and Crosby. Hes a good defencemen but people here give him way too much credit (as said earlier).

Svatos is wicked. I would probably pick this guy over Phanuef to win. I feel sorry for him, hes putting up huge numbers and not getting any credit. I just cant see him winning because it seems that everyone has already made their minds up with either Crosby or Ovechkin. If the spotlight wasnt just on Ovechkin and Crosby he might even win.

[dericer]

Although 1 on 1. Ovechkin vs. Phaneuf.

If there's anything the World Juniors taught us. We know who'd win. :thumbsup:

[SOAB]

Originally posted by Street_Soldier
I dont think Phanuef will win simply because hes not at the level of Ovechkin and Crosby. Hes a good defencemen but people here give him way too much credit (as said earlier).



too much credit? because he is the leader in points by a defenseman on the Flames? plays important PK, PP and end of the game minutes?

defense is a much harder position to play well, especially in the new NHL. i'd say the rookie of the year is between Ovechkin and Phaneuf for sure.

[dericer]

I watch Phaneuf and it still blows my mind that he's only played 40 or so games.

You can't give too much credit to a guy who is our Powerplay, and our goto guy for covering star forwards.

If Ovechkin goes down, Phaneuf is a lock. Especially after all the negative attention Crosby's getting for being a lippy, arrogant prick. Takes after Lemieux really well though.

[googe]

Originally posted by dericer
Especially after all the negative attention Crosby's getting for being a lippy, arrogant prick. Takes after Lemieux really well though.

are you talking about claude or mario :dunno:
mario never had that reputation

[dericer]

Originally posted by googe


are you talking about claude or mario :dunno:
mario never had that reputation


Mario was notorious as a jerk to reporters, and fans alike.

How soon they forget

After a quick search.

From the Edmonton Sun:

Lemieux, who was a bit of a jerk the first time around, has turned into just a great guy in his return to the game. And yesterday he had a lot of time to acknowledge what a visit like this means to a lot of fans in the stands in this era when they are largely oblivious to who might be wearing the visiting uniforms on most nights.


http://www.canoe.ca/Slam020119/col_jones-sun.html