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Foz
11-22-2005, 01:20 PM
Just saw the video footage on CityNews.

Some lady bought grapes from Superstore and came home and found a black widow spider in her grapes.

This is the second time she's encountered finding a BW spider from buying grapes at Superstore.

They recommend in washing grapes/fruits prior to eating.

I'd be freaking out if I found a BW anywhere.
:eek:

retro-steve
11-22-2005, 01:27 PM
why don't you try working in a grocery store? when i worked at safeway we would find a few black widows a month, tonnes of bananna spiders and once we found a baby scorpion nest in a box of mangoes.

the produce people usually get them but some times a couple slip by and it ends up on the news. they're rarely alive.

Foz
11-22-2005, 01:36 PM
Never knew it was that bad.. the ones that the lady found were alive.

retro-steve
11-22-2005, 01:40 PM
meh they're not really agressive either...especially after being transported in a refridgerated truck. if you ever go to mission safeway talk to Louise (i don't know if she still works there). when i found a black widow she let it crawl around on her hand and took it home as a pet, she's a freaking psycho but it shows that after being in the fridge for so long they're pretty docile.

hockeybronx
11-22-2005, 01:44 PM
Originally posted by Foz
They recommend in washing grapes/fruits prior to eating.

Seems like a novel concept.

I fully understand things happen that can't be controlled, but between first-hand accounts of friends/family members of their bread, meat, and now produce, THAT is why I don't buy any food from Superstore.

retro-steve
11-22-2005, 01:50 PM
Originally posted by hockeybronx


Seems like a novel concept.

I fully understand things happen that can't be controlled, but between first-hand accounts of friends/family members of their bread, meat, and now produce, THAT is why I don't buy any food from Superstore.

if you want i could ruin milk for you too...seriously it's better that people are kept in the dark about every thing that's in their grocery store...the stores are good, it's where every thing comes from/how it's obtained.

89coupe
11-22-2005, 01:52 PM
Originally posted by retro-steve


if you want i could ruin milk for you too...seriously it's better that people are kept in the dark about every thing that's in their grocery store...the stores are good, it's where every thing comes from/how it's obtained.

Sure, ruin milk for me.

89coupe
11-22-2005, 01:53 PM
Oh FYI.

Black Widow is considered the most venomous spider in North America.

The venom of the black widow spider is 15 times as toxic as the venom of the prairie rattlesnake.

Black Widow spiders are not usually deadly, especially to adults, because they inject only a small amount of venom.

Only the female Black Widow is venomous; males and juveniles are harmless..

The female Black Widow hangs belly upward and rarely leaves the web.

The Black Widow is also called the "hourglass" or "shoe-button" spider.

Araneae is the Latin word for spider.

More than 35,000 spider species of spiders occur in the world. Of these, about 3,400 species in 64 families are found in North America.

retro-steve
11-22-2005, 01:55 PM
well your spider story is useless as most people know what a black widow is and what it can do...

as for milk, if you really want to know PM me, otherwise i don't want to ruin it for the rest of the milk drinkers.

BerserkerCatSplat
11-22-2005, 01:57 PM
Originally posted by hockeybronx


I fully understand things happen that can't be controlled, but between first-hand accounts of friends/family members of their bread, meat, and now produce, THAT is why I don't buy any food from Superstore.

It's really pretty much the same anywhere you go. I've been party to the food & produce business for many years, and it's really quite crazy what the food goes through.

Rockski and I used to work at a potato-packaging plant (that will remain nameless), and we learned how McCain makes their French Fries. Basically, any potatoes that are unfit to be sold (ie. too old, rotten, infested, blighted, etc.) we shipped off to McCain to be made into fries. The same goes for pretty much every fast food joint and their fries. The worst ones we had to deal with were the infested bins. Maggots and other insects would take up residence in there and we'd have to cut open the bags and dump them, larvae and all, into different bins for shipping. Sometimes it seemed there were more squirming things than potatoes.

The nastiest one ever must have sat forgotten in the back of the warehouse for weeks. We were just going to thro it out, but McCain asked for it anyway. It was so bad, it didn't just have larvae anymore, they had grown up and it had fucking flies. The potatoes themselves were mostly liquid and leaked out of the bags as we tried to dump them. The cloud of flies was so thick we had to wear masks to keep from breathing them and we had to blow them off the potatoes with an air hose just to get at the potatoes. The stench was horrible. We ended up just salvaging what we could and throwing the rest out.

It's not the fault of the packing company, it's really the fry companies that want to pay next to nothing for their potatoes.

So, if you ever buy French fries, and one of them has that little half-hole chunk out of it... yeah. It's a maggot hole.

I've got so many stories like this, it's kinda funny. :D

Produce, water, pop, you name it, I've got stories.

88CRX
11-22-2005, 01:58 PM
i would loose it if i saw one.... and i would probably have a frickin heart attack if i touched it while eating something....

bah!

that would mess me up big time. gives me shivers thinking about it.

88CRX
11-22-2005, 01:59 PM
Originally posted by BerserkerCatSplat
So, if you ever buy French fries, and one of them has that little half-hole chunk out of it... yeah. It's a maggot hole

i hate you. :rofl:

retro-steve
11-22-2005, 02:05 PM
i think every one knows how hotdogs are made as well...but does any one know about processed meats? :devil:

even after knowing all this crap i still eat it, why? because i haven't died yet...but i refuse to drink milk or eat cheap ice cream because it really is worse than the maggot story.

Thaco
11-22-2005, 02:07 PM
meh.... eating/drinking this stuff hasn't killed me yet, but when/if it does, i suppose i will stop consuming it :D

BerserkerCatSplat
11-22-2005, 02:09 PM
Originally posted by retro-steve

...but i refuse to drink milk or eat cheap ice cream because it really is worse than the maggot story.

Oh, it's worse by FAR. I still eat potatoes and whatnot, but I don't touch milk or "spring water" anymore. It's some scary stuff.

ryder_23
11-22-2005, 02:09 PM
Originally posted by retro-steve
i think every one knows how hotdogs are made as well...but does any one know about processed meats? :devil:

even after knowing all this crap i still eat it, why? because i haven't died yet...but i refuse to drink milk or eat cheap ice cream because it really is worse than the maggot story.

Thank god i'm lactose intolerant...and yes, i know all of which you speak from, i worked grocery department, and experience everything...

BokCh0y
11-22-2005, 02:09 PM
when i was younger and worked at the co-op, we once found a dead baby monkey in a box of bananas. we found black widows all the time too. also found a snail one time.....like a fricken huge one with a big ass shell too. was in the lettuce. that's all i have for food stories. as for milk stories, i heard there was this one dude that used to or got caught jerking it in the milk cooler. that's about it.

let's hear the stories people.

retro-steve
11-22-2005, 02:10 PM
Originally posted by Thaco
meh.... eating/drinking this stuff hasn't killed me yet, but when/if it does, i suppose i will stop consuming it :D

it won't kill you but i'll tell you that it's not as good for you as those homoerotic genx-wannabe commercials make it out to be.

chocolate milk by far is the worst, lol they use the stuff that they don't think is fit to be regular milk :barf:

Mr. Burns
11-22-2005, 02:13 PM
retro-steve: I am interested in hearing the milk/ice cream story if you feel like pm'ing it to me.

retro-steve
11-22-2005, 02:13 PM
screw it, i might as well ruin it for a lot of people...

basically at the dairy plants they just attach sucking machines to the utters (probably common knowledge). what most people don't know is that they keep sucking and when the cow runs out of milk all that's left to suck is blood, puss and inner utter lining. also those machines make nasty infections on the utters and as the skin starts to break down it gets sucked through the machine in to the milk. to combat this the dairy people add hydrogen peroxide and dye to the milk, plus they have filters to get the chunks out.

BerserkerCatSplat
11-22-2005, 02:16 PM
The unfortunate part is that it's kinda tough to remove all the blood and pus and infectuous material, so they just sterilize the crap out of it while the impurities are still in it.

retro-steve
11-22-2005, 02:17 PM
Originally posted by BerserkerCatSplat
The unfortunate part is that it's kinda tough to remove all the blood and pus and infectuous material, so they just sterilize the crap out of it while the impurities are still in it.

and that's why it's loaded with hydrogen peroxide goodness :D then the dye gets rid of the colour impurities

BerserkerCatSplat
11-22-2005, 02:20 PM
Exactly! Time to go have a nice cold glass of peroxide 'n' dye! ;) :D

Mr. Burns
11-22-2005, 02:20 PM
:barf:

89coupe
11-22-2005, 02:21 PM
Milk does the body good.:thumbsup:

Have you ever been to gainers meat plant?

I bet you would never eat a hot dog again.:barf:

retro-steve
11-22-2005, 02:23 PM
Originally posted by 89coupe
Milk does the body good.:thumbsup:

Have you ever been to gainers meat plant?

I bet you would never eat a hot dog again.:barf:

i don't eat hotdogs...i go to the italian market and buy the sausages there since we know the people there and know how they're made.

oh and also if any one thinks switching to "organic" will fix all this, they're wrong. organic milk is very dangerous as it is loaded with bacteria that can be EXTREMELY harmful.

this is why man created calcium tablets :thumbsup:

89coupe
11-22-2005, 02:27 PM
Originally posted by retro-steve


i don't eat hotdogs...i go to the italian market and buy the sausages there since we know the people there and know how they're made.

oh and also if any one thinks switching to "organic" will fix all this, they're wrong. organic milk is very dangerous as it is loaded with bacteria that can be EXTREMELY harmful.

this is why man created calcium tablets :thumbsup:

I will never buy organic food for the simple fact that its proven there are more harmful bacterias then food that is sprayed with pesticides.

I'll have my veggies with a side of pesticides anyday, thank you :D

Kirbs17
11-22-2005, 02:31 PM
Crazyness i tellz yea. Back at extra foods I never founds any cool shit.

USHER
11-22-2005, 02:34 PM
wow i drink milk all the time. i guess im not touching that ever agian.

and i just threw out my fries after reading that. how the hell do they get away with this shiet??:barf:

stevieo
11-22-2005, 02:37 PM
whatever, as long as i don't see it there the day im eating/drinking it i won't relaly think about it.

cause we all knwo when we goto resturants people take shits, pisses and all types of ill shit and don't wash their hands. drop your food and pick it up, who else knows what the fuck goes on in th eback, but as long as we don't know we'll eat it. haha

ZorroAMG
11-22-2005, 02:39 PM
Fuck the milk stories, it does a body good and I will always drink it....

retro-steve
11-22-2005, 02:41 PM
Originally posted by ZorroAMG
Fuck the milk stories, it does a body good and I will always drink it....

actually the only good thing milk does for you is give you the calcium you need to grow. once you've finished growing all milk really does is add extra fat. all i've done is taken calcium tablets to get my recomended intake.

Rockski
11-22-2005, 02:42 PM
haha trev i remember the potatoe plant... that was crazy times

i remember one time i had a job there of using a razor knife to cut open burlap sacks. and you know how sometimes when you have a repetitive job you get all used to it and dont have your mind on your task, well i had that happen for a while when all of the sudden i got a sharp pain in my hand... though nothing of it and finished off the palet of potatoes (stacked like 20 bags high)... look down at my hand and im GUSHING BLOOD all over these yellow potatoes... and not just a little bit of blood, a really noticable ammount... just kept getting packed into the little plastic bags and shipped out....

the hopper we had to stand it was fucking sick too, we just wore our street shoes to walk on all these potatoes, and no matter what was on the bottom of our shoes, dog shit included, made it onto those potatoes and shipped out

another buddy of mine worked there and when he was getting tired of his job, he decided that a quick walk to the pisser was way too much effort to exert, so he just pissed on a whole bunch of russets in the hopper, which then got bagged and shipped out to a local store near you.

BerserkerCatSplat
11-22-2005, 02:44 PM
^:rofl: :rofl: Man, you sure were bleeding. I remember being on the opposite side of the pallet, looking down and thinking, "waitaminute, how'd red potatoes get mixed in with these yellow ones?" :rofl:

The forklift/skateboard bleachbox was awesome, too! :burnout:

abyss
11-22-2005, 02:47 PM
*pours large glass of milk* whatever. I won't drink storebought chocolate milk cause it's never tasted right to me. Besides, we eat cows blood all the time (duh) and as far as the skin thing, a bit of cow skin isn't going to hurt me, I eat chicken and pork and fish skin all the time. The puss thing is gross but hey, it's sterilized. meh.

Rockski
11-22-2005, 02:52 PM
Originally posted by BerserkerCatSplat
^:rofl: :rofl: Man, you sure were bleeding. I remember being on the opposite side of the pallet, looking down and thinking, "waitaminute, how'd red potatoes get mixed in with these yellow ones?" :rofl:

The forklift/skateboard bleachbox was awesome, too! :burnout:

TEH BLEACH SKATEING WAS THE SHIT, and grinding the forklift forks hahaha, nang would of kicked our asses if he saw that shit

the best was dropping 2000 lbs of potatoes from 25 ish feet up man, and then plowing through it with the forklift at full steam

and burnouts in the forklifts

AND FORKLIFTS ON BLEACH HAHAHAHAHA

work was awesome

speedracer
11-22-2005, 02:53 PM
Originally posted by retro-steve

chocolate milk by far is the worst, lol they use the stuff that they don't think is fit to be regular milk :barf:

Well, it's not really milk ;) and that also why it has such a short life span. In short Chocolate milk very bad... lol

BerserkerCatSplat
11-22-2005, 02:56 PM
Originally posted by Rockski


TEH BLEACH SKATEING WAS THE SHIT, and grinding the forklift forks hahaha, nang would of kicked our asses if he saw that shit

the best was dropping 2000 lbs of potatoes from 25 ish feet up man, and then plowing through it with the forklift at full steam

and burnouts in the forklifts

AND FORKLIFTS ON BLEACH HAHAHAHAHA

work was awesome

Good times! it was a shitty-ass job, but I think we worked the harder at making it enjoyable than we actually worked at our jobs. Nang would have fired us for half the shit we pulled. Heck, he even did fire me once, and then forgot about it! :rofl: :rofl:

Or when Paul had the affair with the office lady... :rofl:

Primer_Drift
11-22-2005, 02:57 PM
:rofl:
Good stories, thank god I wash my produce (the piss/blood potato story).

I think the best food related story I have ever heard was the baby rodent partially disolved in a can of coke.. Mmmmm good.

Rockski
11-22-2005, 02:58 PM
Originally posted by BerserkerCatSplat
^ Good times! it was a shitty-ass job, but I think we worked the harder at making it enjoyable than we actually worked at our jobs. Nang would have fired us for half the shit we pulled. Heck, he even did fire me once, and then forgot about it! :rofl: :rofl:

Or when Paul had the affair with the office lady... :rofl:

PUBE PEPPERS

sputnik
11-22-2005, 03:09 PM
Originally posted by retro-steve
screw it, i might as well ruin it for a lot of people...

basically at the dairy plants they just attach sucking machines to the utters (probably common knowledge). what most people don't know is that they keep sucking and when the cow runs out of milk all that's left to suck is blood, puss and inner utter lining. also those machines make nasty infections on the utters and as the skin starts to break down it gets sucked through the machine in to the milk. to combat this the dairy people add hydrogen peroxide and dye to the milk, plus they have filters to get the chunks out.

Do you believe everything that hippies email you?

This is about chocolate milk, but it clearly debunks your milk myths.

http://www.snopes.com/horrors/food/chocmilk.htm

I have friends that are dairy farmers and if ANY of their cattle start bleeding when the milk is collected the milk that that cow produced is disposed of and the cow is sent to slaughter. Work on a dairy farm and you will quickly realize how the cattle are treated to ensure the highest quality of milk.

There is also no hydrogen peroxide in milk either. H2O2 is used when watering cattle. 8oz of H2O2 is added to 1000 gallons of water and has shown to keep the cattle healthier and increase their milk production and butterfat levels. If you didnt already know mothers milk is also contains H2O2.

Orbie
11-22-2005, 03:09 PM
The milk thing isn't that crazy skin and blood? who cares people eat blue steaks, the maggots in the potatoes sounds way worse. :barf:

89coupe
11-22-2005, 03:13 PM
Here is one for you.

New studies have found that higher and higher levels of estrogen are being introduced to our drinking water.

Cause: Womens urin

Certain chemicals, one being estrogen cannot be filtered during the recycling process of suage which is then re-distributed into our drinking water.

This is only one of many substances that we injest every day.

sputnik
11-22-2005, 03:26 PM
Originally posted by 89coupe
Here is one for you.

New studies have found that higher and higher levels of estrogen are being introduced to our drinking water.

Cause: Womens urin

Certain chemicals, one being estrogen cannot be filtered during the recycling process of suage which is then re-distributed into our drinking water.

This is only one of many substances that we injest every day.

In other news. Single internet porn addicted men are reported to be drinking large amounts of water to grow their own boobs to play with in their parents basement.

Phy
11-22-2005, 03:32 PM
So fries are skanky... bet you hashbrowns are even skankier? Ah well, that's what frying's for.

finboy
11-22-2005, 03:34 PM
working at the real canadian wholesale club (the ghetto superstore version of costco) left me with TONNES of stories that would ruin the average consumer's shopping day, lol.

from resteraunts picking through our garbage for produce to mice and birds eating product while it was on the shelf, it was always an interesting time at work.

and yes, its very easy to ruin milk for people, before i worked there, a guy knew how to take the tops off the 4L jugs w/o breaking the ring. you can only imagine what happened after that :nut:

Orbie
11-22-2005, 03:42 PM
Originally posted by 89coupe
Here is one for you.

New studies have found that higher and higher levels of estrogen are being introduced to our drinking water.

Cause: Womens urin

Certain chemicals, one being estrogen cannot be filtered during the recycling process of suage which is then re-distributed into our drinking water.

This is only one of many substances that we injest every day.

Please tell me that you didn't just spell sewage, 'suage'. Otherwise interesting info, if you have a link to the source article I'd like to see it.

A_3
11-22-2005, 03:47 PM
Good ol' Super Store! I used to work in the deli when I was much younger. I don't really have any truely horrific stories, but I do know that the smaller the size you cheese block you're buying, the older it is. Every sunday we would pick out all the moldy cheeses before Super Store opened, cut off the mold, and reset their expiry date. I'm sure we had 2-3 year old cheddar cheese on the shelf at some point.

kaput
11-22-2005, 03:53 PM
.

Primer_Drift
11-22-2005, 04:12 PM
Soy milk is made from pressed babies.:cry:

retro-steve
11-22-2005, 05:10 PM
Originally posted by sputnik


Do you believe everything that hippies email you?

This is about chocolate milk, but it clearly debunks your milk myths.

http://www.snopes.com/horrors/food/chocmilk.htm

I have friends that are dairy farmers and if ANY of their cattle start bleeding when the milk is collected the milk that that cow produced is disposed of and the cow is sent to slaughter. Work on a dairy farm and you will quickly realize how the cattle are treated to ensure the highest quality of milk.

There is also no hydrogen peroxide in milk either. H2O2 is used when watering cattle. 8oz of H2O2 is added to 1000 gallons of water and has shown to keep the cattle healthier and increase their milk production and butterfat levels. If you didnt already know mothers milk is also contains H2O2.

too bad this came from some one who worked there and he showed me home video of what goes on. maybe your friends are good farmers but lucerne (sp?) is disgusting.

01RedDX
11-22-2005, 05:15 PM
.

Toms-SC
11-22-2005, 05:39 PM
This is why I drink soy-milk

shakalaka
11-22-2005, 05:57 PM
Dont care what the milk stories are or whatever. I love drinking it and always will, and I will keep on drinking it. As far as the fries are concerned, I never really liked fried stuff anyways.

Nav13
11-22-2005, 07:03 PM
Fuck I love mcain vedgies, this thread sucks. Question for the guys who worked at the potatoe plants. Um so the potatoes you buy at the groccery store in the sack, are those affected too? basically all potatoes are affected by either maggots or sick fucks who work at the plants?

l8braker
11-22-2005, 07:04 PM
:eek: :eek: :eek: :eek:

izzoblitzo
11-22-2005, 07:17 PM
My brother used to work in the produce department in the Westhills Superstore.. he said they'd crank open a crate of bananas and find dead tarantulas and dead scorpions in various other produce at the bottom of the crate.

Most of them die the moment they cross the border, where the climate is much different than from where they're from... ie. mexico.

I heard the daddy long legs is one of the most poisonous spiders, but it's mouth is so small, it cant do any harm?

Charon
11-22-2005, 08:23 PM
Originally posted by izzoblitzo

I heard the daddy long legs is one of the most poisonous spiders, but it's mouth is so small, it cant do any harm?

And im pretty sure the daddy long legs is not even a spider.

szw
11-22-2005, 08:37 PM
Originally posted by kaput
Yay for blood free soy milk. Who wants to ruin that one for me?



Originally posted by Primer_Drift
Soy milk is made from pressed babies.:cry:


:rofl: :rofl:

Tyler883
11-22-2005, 09:18 PM
Originally posted by retro-steve


too bad this came from some one who worked there and he showed me home video of what goes on. maybe your friends are good farmers but lucerne (sp?) is disgusting.

thats not how alberta dairy industry works, the milk from one dairy farm often ends up in the same tanker truck as another dairy farm.

And, I think that the same truck may deliver to several dairy producers. I think that the only variance is what each company does with their dairy.Can anyone confirm this for me?

finboy
11-22-2005, 09:30 PM
Originally posted by izzoblitzo

I heard the daddy long legs is one of the most poisonous spiders, but it's mouth is so small, it cant do any harm?

mythbusters debunked that

Tyler883
11-22-2005, 09:31 PM
Also, I beleive the dairy farms work on some sort of quota system where the take their heard of say 260 cows and commit to delivering milk based on perhaps 200 cows so that at any given time you can be producing your milk from the healthiest 200 cows, and the other 60 cows might be the ones that are producing milk for the calves. or perhaps some of the cows are on medication that requires that their milk gets spoiled.

I toured a larger dairy farm south of Calgary where a friend works, and it really impressed me. Alot of clear tubing, and very clean envirement. Also, its very much like a factory. The cows have id collars, and computers track each individual cow. it deals with things like how much milk is being procuced, if the cow is on medication, is the milk to besold or disposed of. is the cow sick, is it gaining or loosing weight, probably a whole bunch of other stuff that I can't remember.

djayz
11-22-2005, 09:32 PM
thats all just gross
but imagine the growing process of a potatoe and what happens when its in the ground

no matter what you eat or drink theres some form of nasty shit in it. theres no way to avoid the shit

just eat it your going to die eventually

only thing gross is the original post...imagine a poisonous spider crawling out of your grape bunch when you go to wash it or something thats sick

BerserkerCatSplat
11-22-2005, 09:35 PM
Originally posted by Nav13
Fuck I love mcain vedgies, this thread sucks. Question for the guys who worked at the potatoe plants. Um so the potatoes you buy at the groccery store in the sack, are those affected too? basically all potatoes are affected by either maggots or sick fucks who work at the plants?

Only fries/hashbrowns that stuff are the gross ones, the ones that aren't good enough to put in bags.

Not much you can do about crazy warehouse bums, though. I'm happy I don't work there anymore, those people were just fucked.

finboy
11-22-2005, 10:14 PM
http://forums.beyond.ca/showthread.php?s=&threadid=64486

thats for the argument as to wether or not milk is good for you :D

FiveFreshFish
11-22-2005, 10:36 PM
Originally posted by BerserkerCatSplat


Only fries/hashbrowns that stuff are the gross ones, the ones that aren't good enough to put in bags.

What about potato chips?

BerserkerCatSplat
11-22-2005, 10:54 PM
^ That's a good question! The place I worked didn't ship to a chip making company, so I really don't know. I wouldn't be suprised if they used the crap potatoes, though.

Charon
11-22-2005, 11:05 PM
^^ Well dont count on pringles being very good. All pringles are is mashed potatoes formed and cooked.... who knows what kind of crap potatoes they could use.

I have a another question.
:whocares: If anything it will help your immune system. Being in to perfect an enviroment will just yield someone that dies from a fricken cold.
Tastes good, and doesnt make me sick. Why not eat it. We use shit (literaly) To grow food. That must mean it is bad food.

Every food industry has its horror stories but most of the time it amounts to nothing significant. We cook and prepare food for a reason.

Rockski
11-23-2005, 04:43 AM
Originally posted by BerserkerCatSplat


Only fries/hashbrowns that stuff are the gross ones, the ones that aren't good enough to put in bags.

Not much you can do about crazy warehouse bums, though. I'm happy I don't work there anymore, those people were just fucked.

remember that guy who fell in the hopper and broke his arm? hahaha the bone was just FUCKED up...
and dennis the newfie.... who drank screech and coke every night

googe
11-23-2005, 05:11 AM
why do you little shits that work in these places think its funny to ruin peoples food? i dont get how people can have no respect whatsoever. your parents should have beat you with a spiked club.

Rockski
11-23-2005, 05:19 AM
hey i just bled, and that wasnt intentional