A chat with my insurance broker...

[infernal]

So I had a chat with my insurance broker today as I have yet another vehicle to insure. Everything went quite well, he was a nice guy and got me setup with a good price. Actually to be honest it went well until he asked me if the car was modified. I hesitated, and answered no. I think he knew right away, and we started chatting about what problems were associated with such “modifications”.

Apparently in the eyes of the insurance company, your policy in Alberta can be voided for having any ONE of the following undeclared items installed on your vehicle.

- Engine Swap
- Aftermarket Turbo
- Aftermarket Supercharger
- Nitrous Oxide

Again as reported by the insurance broker, your policy can be voided by having any TWO of the following undeclared items.

- Suspension Modification
- Change to Rim Size
- Interior Roll Cage
- Intake
- Exhaust
- Any other modification designed to increase speed


Keep in mind, this is for UNDECLARED MODIFICATIONS. The broker reported that if you do have any ONE of the first field, or any TWO of the bottom field you are not qualified for low risk insurance. You move up to high risk, as 90% of the insurance companies have policies about “the fast and the furious”.

It looks like there is approximately a 40% hike in insurance moving to owning a modified vehicle, with two of the second field modifications (intake and exhaust) with a total aftermarket value of not more than $3,000CDN.



I’m wondering if anyone can substantiate this brokers claims with any information they might have. Please leave the speculation at home.

My personal take on this, is that they’ve written the policy to protect themselves from “street racers” my profiling anyone with aftermarket modifications. The law, as reported by the broker, states that any modification to increase speed voids your warranty.

This is a very interesting word; speed. In theory the speed of any vehicle is determined by the gearing of the transmission. Intake and exhaust should only change the efficiency of the vehicle to attain these speeds; NOT the actual speed.

Any lawyers online?


Anyways, I don’t know if this has been covered before. I did a quick search and couldn’t find anything in the way of void insurance policies. Hopefully some of you can help with this.

Regards

[rage2]

In the eyes of YOUR insurance company, yes. It's not an alberta law, but the insurance company does have a right to do it.

Lucky I'm old... I'm allowed to do anything and they don't care.

[handsomebassman]

well both my vehicles are registered as High Risk vehicles (civic, and jeep), which makes my insurance more, but are you saying that the mods on either (i dont have any on the civic), would affect my yearly cost even more?

[rage2]

Originally posted by handsomebassman
well both my vehicles are registered as High Risk vehicles (civic, and jeep), which makes my insurance more, but are you saying that the mods on either (i dont have any on the civic), would affect my yearly cost even more?
It depends on your age, driving record, accident history, and insurance company.

[infernal]

that’s what I’m told by the broker...

and rage, from what he said its the Alberta government that cares. Supposedly all insurance companies are required to know your vehicles modifications…

Again I’m only going with what this broker told me. I asked him if there was a difference moving to any other insurance company, and he told me no. They all had this requirement.

He made reference to it happening when the insurance reforms came into effect.

[bart]

mod whatever you want, don't tell them about it, just make sure you dont crash then lol, if someone else hits you, too bad, they pay for whatever is broken, declared or not... i think anyway thats how it works.

[That.Guy.S30]

^ lol

[SilverBoost]

Originally posted by rage2
In the eyes of YOUR insurance company, yes. It's not an alberta law, but the insurance company does have a right to do it.

Lucky I'm old... I'm allowed to do anything and they don't care.

:werd:

15 yrs + wthout a claim or moving violation in over 8 years....

If you're 17 and try to pass off this stuff, I'd say you'd be SOL.

[3G]

how do rims make you go faster?

[seer_claw]

Originally posted by 3G
how do rims make you go faster?

Changes in rim sizes will change the speed that is registered on your speedometer. Also lighter ones will allow a quicker acceleration due to the fact that you do not have as much suspended weight.

[That.Guy.S30]

^^ yup.

shit i guess making an STi wagon, wont go very well with my insurance company. lol

[tsi_neal]

What your broker told you only applies to the insurance company that he/she uses. The alberta government doesnt care one bit about mods, only the company the gives you insurance. The big piss off here is the car gets insured not the driver, this is a pain for a number of reasons, primarily to me its owning and insuring more than one vehicle, i can only drive one at a time but i pay for two. the second big problem to me is the mods, its more difficult to insure a modified vehicle when in reality its still the drivers responsibility. you can speed in a 100hp vehicle almost as easy as a 300hp vehicle its just a matter of time it takes. Not to mention that you would have ZERO problems insuring a bone stock corvette Z06 that makes some 500hp, but put a couple goodies on whatever you drive and its a problem.

The real solution is get yourself reccomended to an understanding broker that WANTS to help you out, and be fucking responsible with your driving. if they see you as a risk mods are the easiest way to give you the boot.

Also the list of things you say is also specific to the company, for instance ING simply wont insure vehicles that have several items on your list...

[barbarian]

A corvette will cost you more as well.

[oddjob]

Originally posted by bart
mod whatever you want, don't tell them about it, just make sure you dont crash then lol, if someone else hits you, too bad, they pay for whatever is broken, declared or not... i think anyway thats how it works.

I live by this moto :thumbsup:

[Raz2]

all my cars are "stock" :)

[GoChris]

Sounds like ING insurance, I had those things listed to me too. The thing is I am already paying high risk insurance I think so I probably SHOULD mod the car so at least I'm getting my insurance moneys worth :rolleyes:

[FiveFreshFish]

Originally posted by rage2
Lucky I'm old... I'm allowed to do anything and they don't care.
Me too. :D



Originally posted by seer_claw


Changes in rim sizes will change the speed that is registered on your speedometer. Also lighter ones will allow a quicker acceleration due to the fact that you do not have as much suspended weight.
Gutting the back seat and trunk area will lighten the car too. Will the insurance company care about this? :dunno:

[sputnik]

Step 1: Dont talk to a mortgage broker anymore. Talk directly to the representative from the insurance company. If you dont like what they say go to another insurance company, shop around yourself until you find one that works for you. Mortgage brokers notoriously pick the insurance company that yields them the best commission and then just tells you to bend over and pay "because you are young" or "drive a high risk vehicle".

If you need a starting point. Start with TD. I have found them to be VERY easy to deal with.

www.tdinsurance.com

[dj_honda]

Originally posted by sputnik
Step 1: Dont talk to a mortgage broker anymore. Talk directly to the representative from the insurance company. If you dont like what they say go to another insurance company, shop around yourself until you find one that works for you. Mortgage brokers notoriously pick the insurance company that yields them the best commission and then just tells you to bend over and pay "because you are young" or "drive a high risk vehicle".

If you need a starting point. Start with TD. I have found them to be VERY easy to deal with.

www.tdinsurance.com

my dad just got insured with td and they asked him on the form if his car was modified (his isn't), but this may be a problem if i try switching over to them.

what if you just have PLPD? I was told that for PLPD insurance, it doesnt matter what car you drive, if you just want the base coverage the rate should be the same/similar from car to car. So it should be the same for a modified car as well shouldnt it?

[Ben]

I'm with TD, and when I was younger, they asked me if my cars were modified, I said yes, I have a swap, but with an engine available in the same body style and same amount of cylinders, and not FI (MK2 VW GTI w/ 2.0L 16V swap). They said they would let that go because I wasn't increasing the cars power by over a certain % and that the vehicles purpose didn't change or something like that. Granted my rate was that of a 16V GTI and not the chassis based 8v but I was covered and thats all that matters.

When I bought my Audi, they didn't ask a single question. Nothing remotely close other than how many KM I drive to work.

Seems to me the newer and more expensive the car, the less questions they ask. My latest chat with the insurance company over another vehicle was basically "What do you want for a deductable"

[infernal]

I just called TD and thats pretty much all they asked. "what do you want for a deductable" and "ouch, im sorry".


All in all their rate was about $100 more a year than the company that grilled me about mods. The agent couldnt care less, although I'll admit I didnt exactly advertise my intentions.

[Loose]

I just submited an appraisal with meloche monnex (TD) so that i could get it insured for the appraised value.

The appraisal shows mods like: intake/exh/chip/sway bars/wheels tires.

They were reviewing my policy at an underwriting meeting last week. Haven't heard back from them yet. Pretty nervous...

Anybody done this before?

[lamp_shade_2000]

Im with meloche monnex as well and doing the same thing this winter. let me know how it goes and who did your appraisal for you if you dont mind me asking?

[Seanith]

I went through a broker, and i am insured by ING. I told the broker of my modifications: suspension, wheels, headlights, etc and i dont' even think they bothered to report it to ING I don't know.. i'm not going to press the issue though.

[guessboi]

^ you won't get cover for your mods if any thing happens. plus your broker can get in trouble if ING finds out.

[Euro_Trash]

I am with Meloche Mennox and they have never asked me if there are any modifications to any of my cars...

[ryder_23]

I'm with meloche monnex, and they have asked me every single time if my car is modded :rofl:

[Euro_Trash]

No 100% sure, maybe because I am part of APEGGA...
That is just really wierd. My girlfriend just had her car insured and when they asked her if there were any modifications I started wondering why I have never had them ask me.

[kenny]

I'm with MM as well and they didn't ask anything about modifications on either of my vehicles. Agent was joking around with me when he was reviewing my past history... "we're only young once right?" haha. Best insurance company, period.

Allstate was actually really good about mods too, my car was lowered, had wheels, power mods and they still paid me for everything that wasnt even declared in the first place. They wrote off my AMG, paid the remaining balance I owed and cut me a cheque and told me to get better soon (I had a sore back for a week or so after getting t-boned).

Thank you ralphy for the insurance reforms :D

[James]

Im with TD, and for the most part they have been a good company to deal with, until i got my '90 MR2 this summer. Because it was imported they wouldnt give me fire/theft or collision because they "didnt know the value of the car"( no '90 MR2's produced in NA)...they wouldnt value it as a '91, and i basically told them to fuck off when they wanted to value it as an '89(older style), So i needed an appraisal. I drove it with pl/pd, then I went and got an appraisal when it was time to park it, and they had a LOT of issues with what was stated on the appraisal. The appraiser listed the modifications on the car because it raised the value, they called and asked "what's a turbo timer?, Is it an aftermarket turbo?, how much more power does it have?, do you race it?" etc... once i calmed then down with truthful yet creative answers ;), and they "talked to management" everything was settled. The car is parked with fire/theft right now at like $10/month , but i have a feeling when i bring it out in the spring they are going to try and charge me through the roof if i want collision coverage :thumbsdow

[max_boost]

Statefarm has a zero tolerance policy on performance modifications as well. A bit subjective in terms of what is actually considered a performance mod. My agent told me they can void the policy but it has to be a fairly serious accident.

[rage2]

BTW - rims doesn't make you go faster. What it does it make your car more flashy, and higher risk for theft.

[Euro_Trash]

Originally posted by kenny
MM..... Best insurance company, period.


:werd: So easy to deal with, I recomend them to all of my friends

[Khyron]

I don't have modifications, I have repairs. My suspension and my exhaust ... broke .. and so I bought stuff that was cheaper than OEM. How can they complain about that?

Khyron

[ninjak84]

Meloche Monnex is great when it comes to mods :)

Policies change between insurance firms though... Some of my friends get raped by their insurance company

[Loose]

I just got back my revised statement from Monnex after they added SEF 19 (appraised value), and buiness use. They charge you extra for buisness use if you are 25yo+ or and drive more than 4800km/yr for work. My car, which on the books is probably worth $8k, was appraised for $19k (loaded model + low mileage + mods + good condition).

Total premium increase for buisness use and SEF 19 = $196 (~15%)

As far as I know, the buisness use premium is about $70/yr, so the SEF 19 is only ~130yr.

My advice to you guys who have modded cars ($$$) is to tell your company about what you drive, and it's actual use. Get an appraisal and have them put the SEF rider. When they get the appraisal, they will review it to see if they still want to cover your car. I don't know how leniant they are with mods, but it seems that as long as there aren't any safety concerns or extremly high risk mods (turbo/nos/supercharger/dumped), they will insure you. I guess it's a gamble. They might can you, but you probably will be able to find someone else to insure you. Insurers are the buisness of making money, and the premium you pay for SEF 19 is another way for them to make money. They'd rather sell you more insurance than less, so chances are you will be ok if your car isn't super high risk. If you don't have SEF 19, don't expect to get any more than book value for your car.

In general, I'd highly advise Monnex to anyone who is a graduate of university. They seem to only cover alumni, and members of certain professional associations, but give them really good rates.