Comp. Sci. Opinions

[DC2uned]

I was wondering how many Beyonders are taking Computer Science and how do you like it.

I am thinking about going into it, and want some feedback from you guys. I know its challenging so you don't need to state that, I am looking more of like how do you like it and do you regreat taking it.

[ronaldo]

im first year comp sci...just finished the first semester.

not gonna lie its a hard course but i enjoyed it. some assignments took me over 20 hours to complete.

cant say i regret taking the course.... but cant say i loved it either

[FatboyTheHungry]

Hated it, but I took it in the 90's and things have changed. The Mathematical component won't have changed though, and that is the part that sucks the most... CPSC 413 is the worst course a person ever would have to take, especially with Dr. Eberly...
Do I regret it? No. I wouldn't be where I am now without my degree. :thumbsup:

edit: I found the program very difficult, and gave up most of my fun stuff in order to do well in school. In the end, finishing the progam was extremely satisfying. Looking back I enjoyed the experience, but it was a gruelling program to go through. This was at a time when CPSC 455 was still CPSC 357, to be taken in second year. I was one of the last to take 357, and when Eberly started teaching 413, the failure rate was phenomenal. When I convocated, there were only 18 of us left... Did I enjoy myself? Not really, but the experience was huge for me, and if I had another chance, I wouldn't change a thing. :D

[eblend]

don't take comp sci, there are other computer related things at the U if you are intersted, there is MGIS, Computer Engg look around don't just jump in. I did a year in comp sci and I hated it, programming was just not for me, so now I am graduating this year with a MGIS BComm degree and I coudln't have been happier that i switched over! I regret taking comp sci because if I went straight into mgis i wouldn't have lost 4 math classes that I had to suffer thought

[Orbie]

It all depends on what type of person you are and what sort of things you enjoy doing, no one here is going to be able to tell you that. I would just go into the first semester and see how you like it. You definitely won't be the first or last person to feel out a Department by giving a semester a try. In ways I think that's better then just going straight into a major and sticking with it. This way at least you'll know you wouldn't have liked it, rather then always wondering if you would have or not. People like eblend could not say what he is saying now if he didn't try Comp Sci first. I liked it, and I would recommend you at least give it a try.

[DC2uned]

Thanks for the opinions.
I have been taking Sociology and completing my Pre-Commerce req. for the last two years. Now that I have applied for Business I need a fall back program incase I don't get into Business and since I don't want Sociology as anything more then a Minor, I am on the prowl.

[Street_Soldier]

Every faculty is going to be hard. Just do what you like doing. Do you have any expereience programing? If so then it can only help u.

[5hift]

Originally posted by eblend
don't take comp sci, there are other computer related things at the U if you are intersted, there is MGIS, Computer Engg look around don't just jump in. I did a year in comp sci and I hated it, programming was just not for me, so now I am graduating this year with a MGIS BComm degree and I coudln't have been happier that i switched over! I regret taking comp sci because if I went straight into mgis i wouldn't have lost 4 math classes that I had to suffer thought

So you base whether or not someone else should take the program on the fact that it was too hard for you?

[bookem]

I've got my B.Sc in Comp Sci from U of C, and I loved the program, and I love my job as a result of that degree. One of the downsides to this degree is the volume of idiots that managed to graduate (because the assignments don't change significantly from year-to-year, they're able to copy+paste) have tarnished the reputation of said degree. I think I was in the minority of people in the program, those who actually learned something and have applied it to the 'real world'.

[badMotoFinga]

CPSC is tedious BS ... if you plan to be a programmer ... you'll prolly get the most out of the program ... otherwise its shat .. I'm just finishing and I have to say how disappointed i am ... Most of the courses you'll spend countless hours on only to walk away learning nothing of value ... however .. you only get out of it what you put in ...

I probably fall into that 'cut-and-paste' category as mentioned above so my advice my be littered with angst ... but the majority of cpsc ppl that I know are like this as well ...

[RiCE-DaDDy]

^ only the lower level shit is boring and tedious, I found the highler level stuff to be easier since it was more interesting.

i.e. I had a course where we made a complete software system for a commercial client. We designed the software completely by ourselves. We picked the latest tech suitable. learned it, coded, tested and everything. (it was a completely browser based real time chat program. like the live help things u see around the web)

[eblend]

Originally posted by 5hift


So you base whether or not someone else should take the program on the fact that it was too hard for you?

no i was stating that if people are not sure if they want to take comp sci, it may be because they don't know of any other computer related programs at the university. Anyone who is intersted in computers and doesn't do much research may simply jump into comp sci thinkings its computer related, and might regret it. Just saying there are other options out there. And no comp sci was not too hard for me, i just didn't like programing sitting next to people who have serious hygene problems who spend the last week there without going home.

[Foz]

Originally posted by eblend


no i was stating that if people are not sure if they want to take comp sci, it may be because they don't know of any other computer related programs at the university. Anyone who is intersted in computers and doesn't do much research may simply jump into comp sci thinkings its computer related, and might regret it. Just saying there are other options out there. And no comp sci was not too hard for me, i just didn't like programing sitting next to people who have serious hygene problems who spend the last week there without going home.

:werd: You newbies (post 2000) are lucky. We had to use the snail/slug terminals and in that room behind the lunchroom.. boy, that room was disgusting (no ventilation whatsoever). An the lousy terminals we had.. oh boy... Sparc 5's were the fastest thing we had..

[KLCC]

u mean those green AIX terminals back in the days??

I kinda miss those machines.....I used to wish I had a proper account so that I would be able to code and surf mosaic on the colored sparc machines....

[5hift]

Originally posted by eblend

i just didn't like programing sitting next to people who have serious hygene problems who spend the last week there without going home.

:(

I know what you mean about this part.

[Orbie]

Originally posted by KLCC
u mean those green AIX terminals back in the days??

I kinda miss those machines.....I used to wish I had a proper account so that I would be able to code and surf mosaic on the colored sparc machines....

Man the memory of those machines just reminded me of how depressing the old lab was...the new one looks completely luxurious compared to back then. Spending even 2 hours in that place would get me in the worst moods.

[Foz]

Originally posted by KLCC
u mean those green AIX terminals back in the days??

I kinda miss those machines.....I used to wish I had a proper account so that I would be able to code and surf mosaic on the colored sparc machines....

We had those POS AIX terminals, but I meant the old slug/snail boxes which were 100X worse. We had to use them for CPSC 357 for assembly.

[FatboyTheHungry]

Originally posted by Foz


:werd: You newbies (post 2000) are lucky. We had to use the snail/slug terminals and in that room behind the lunchroom.. boy, that room was disgusting (no ventilation whatsoever). An the lousy terminals we had.. oh boy... Sparc 5's were the fastest thing we had..

I remember that... I remember when the Sparc 2's were the fastest things there... And we worked off those 5 Sun3's with VT100 terminals. Hell, the Sun3's were networked with token ring... :thumbsdow

[sputnik]

Originally posted by FatboyTheHungry


I remember that... I remember when the Sparc 2's were the fastest things there...

:werd:

Those SparcStation 2's we terrible. I remember when the SparcStation 10s and 20s (around 1995) came out when I was working at an ISP in Winnipeg.

The SparcUltra 1/2/5's were light years ahead of the SparcStations.

When I was at the U of M most of the Unix terminals were just monitors attached to a network connection. All they did was open a CDE session on a remote server (along with every other user in the lab). SLOW.

[DC328is]

im in first year majoring CPSC

all i gotta say is... im gonna switch majors. if you really like programming and looking at codes all day long and figuring out why it doesnt work... then its the major for you!

[DC328is]

Originally posted by eblend
don't take comp sci, there are other computer related things at the U if you are intersted, there is MGIS, Computer Engg look around don't just jump in. I did a year in comp sci and I hated it, programming was just not for me, so now I am graduating this year with a MGIS BComm degree and I coudln't have been happier that i switched over! I regret taking comp sci because if I went straight into mgis i wouldn't have lost 4 math classes that I had to suffer thought

I'm interested in this MGIS. Could you tell me more about it?
what kind of jobs are out there with this? Pay any good? i heard its less programming and more computer hands on? thanks!

[KLCC]

Originally posted by eblend


no i was stating that if people are not sure if they want to take comp sci, it may be because they don't know of any other computer related programs at the university. Anyone who is intersted in computers and doesn't do much research may simply jump into comp sci thinkings its computer related, and might regret it. Just saying there are other options out there. And no comp sci was not too hard for me, i just didn't like programing sitting next to people who have serious hygene problems who spend the last week there without going home.


Actually I did it for the sake of pride and self complishment. It isn't about the computer, the code design, or anything computer related. It is just a personal reason....otherwise I probably would of grad as a chem or as an engineer instead.....

[RiCE-DaDDy]

Correct me if im wrong, but the technical aspect of MGIS is pretty lacking?

[DC328is]

guys i got raped in all my classes...
comp sci just isnt for me...

i hate it so much...
i need to find other options.

whats easy and can make decent money with plenty of job opportunities out there?

sorry to high jack... im pissed.

[badMotoFinga]

Anything that is easy usually doesnt make decent money. Most jobs with plenty of opportunities would require hard work to be qualified for.

I'm just finishing my CPSC degree .. and I hate it too ... but i dealt with the hate .. and now that its over, the degree opens up another world of opportunities which aren't programming related. So maybe if you can deal with it even though you hate it, there may be something you can use it for in the end.

Also, you shouldn't choose a career path based on easyness and high wage aspirations. I picked CPSC because I heard that it was easier than ENGG and it paid the same. At that time I knew nothing of programming. Then i found out by 2nd year that UofC's CPSC is mainly programming. From that point on .. I became miserable with school. They called me "Bitter Ben."

Anyways, you should choose a career path that interests you cuz it's impossible to excel at something that you're not interested in, and the only way to make decent money is to excel at something, AND you wouldnt want to spend all those years training for a career that is just gonna make you miserable in the end.

[DC2uned]

Originally posted by DC328is
guys i got raped in all my classes...
comp sci just isnt for me...

i hate it so much...
i need to find other options.

whats easy and can make decent money with plenty of job opportunities out there?

sorry to high jack... im pissed.

Haha, no worrie.
I am intrested to find other options too. It seems like CPSC isn't for me.

[FatboyTheHungry]

Originally posted by badMotoFinga
Anything that is easy usually doesnt make decent money. Most jobs with plenty of opportunities would require hard work to be qualified for.

I'm just finishing my CPSC degree .. and I hate it too ... but i dealt with the hate .. and now that its over, the degree opens up another world of opportunities which aren't programming related. So maybe if you can deal with it even though you hate it, there may be something you can use it for in the end.


:werd: I always knew that I wanted to go into computing, and I got raped in some classes just like everyone else...
Thing is, better to hurt now and reap the benefits early, than have fun now, and later on wish you tried harder. Bottom line is if something was good for you and easy, everyone one have it. CPSC is hard. That's just the way it goes.

I have a CPSC degree and what that gives me is not only technical knowledge, but the ability to adapt. After all, anyone can learn to use a software development package. It takes an entirely different individual to understand HOW that package is put together.

This in-depth knowledge also puts me at the forefront of designing minds in an IT shop. The mathematical component gives me a understanding of WHY things are the ways they are, and how to improve on it. I finished my degree in '98, and have had nothing but success ever since.

An MGIS degree is great too, but focuses more on using technology for the business. This is all fine and well, but I guarantee you that you will be competing againt more people for the same job, regardless of actual degree. IF you want to be a BA in an IT shop, this is the way to go.

In big international companies, the credentials you bring to the table will get you a second look and credibility. I know because I have been there since I finished school.

One thing to note - for anyone that wants to work stateside and internationally, an accredited Canadian university degree is recognized by the big shops as a serious contender. I have successfully competed with and beaten American grads for work, even from the private schools. And even better, they often end up working for me.

So the best advice I can give to a person who is in CPSC but feels beat up... Level of difficulty is relative to what you have experienced in the past. Just survive. After you are done, everything is easy.

[KLCC]

Originally posted by FatboyTheHungry


:werd: I always knew that I wanted to go into computing, and I got raped in some classes just like everyone else...
Thing is, better to hurt now and reap the benefits early, than have fun now, and later on wish you tried harder. Bottom line is if something was good for you and easy, everyone one have it. CPSC is hard. That's just the way it goes.

I have a CPSC degree and what that gives me is not only technical knowledge, but the ability to adapt. After all, anyone can learn to use a software development package. It takes an entirely different individual to understand HOW that package is put together.

This in-depth knowledge also puts me at the forefront of designing minds in an IT shop. The mathematical component gives me a understanding of WHY things are the ways they are, and how to improve on it. I finished my degree in '98, and have had nothing but success ever since.

An MGIS degree is great too, but focuses more on using technology for the business. This is all fine and well, but I guarantee you that you will be competing againt more people for the same job, regardless of actual degree. IF you want to be a BA in an IT shop, this is the way to go.

In big international companies, the credentials you bring to the table will get you a second look and credibility. I know because I have been there since I finished school.

One thing to note - for anyone that wants to work stateside and internationally, an accredited Canadian university degree is recognized by the big shops as a serious contender. I have successfully competed with and beaten American grads for work, even from the private schools. And even better, they often end up working for me.

So the best advice I can give to a person who is in CPSC but feels beat up... Level of difficulty is relative to what you have experienced in the past. Just survive. After you are done, everything is easy.


well, as a CPSC grad, I find myself in a different situation than FatboyTheHungry

CPSC is not hard. It is bunch of common sense.. I mean if you can't solve a problem in a procedural matter then you ought to be able to after grad and if you can't, then you shouldn't grad as CPSC in the first place.

2) I guess I sort of gets how package are being put together, but really, minus the 12+ hrs of coding on some poorly scheduled project (7 days a week). :cry: I don't really have the time to actually understand how software works. (i.e. how docBase in server.xml, or how the use of java bean affects the way of designing in an enterprise project) perhaps when I have more free time (i.e. between job change, then I can start try to understand the software/technology/project architecture a bit more in depth)

3) The mathematical component gives me a understanding of WHY things are the ways they are, and how to improve on it.

Actually, again, being a busy person....I guess there isn't a time for me to worry about the Big O or small omega of a section of a code that isn't written by me or by me. Bottom line, produce the core functionality for releases, and try to have it deliver ON TIME and we can always fine tune the software later during maintenance. Aside from coding, I have to do some testing, documenting (writing SD paper and do in-line documents) and supporting both the user and management on how the software is suppose to function.
There is a performance benchmark software that does the job, all I have to do is to improve the result once the software calculates where needs improve.

"Just survive. After you are done, everything is easy."---ain't that the truth, amen.
:thumbsup:

p.s. After 2000, and you think you can get easy money just from programming, then you need to get a reality check. (Hint: INDIA, and CHINA)

[RiCE-DaDDy]

^ thats why most successful cpsc grads arent really programming

[Mar]

I graduated from the program and I enjoyed it.

[FatboyTheHungry]

Originally posted by RiCE-DaDDy
^ thats why most successful cpsc grads arent really programming

Haha, I suppose you are right there. I have moved away from the development role, although I do provide specification for development teams now and then... I think one of the major stumbling blocks for anyone in a development position (such as KLCC) is weak leadership and project management/planning. Project timelines are more often than not, too aggressive, and the solution most PMs see is to throw more resources at a problem. They don't necessarily see the scope of development that is required. All they get is an estimate, and how much it will cost...

[KLCC]

Originally posted by FatboyTheHungry


Haha, I suppose you are right there. I have moved away from the development role, although I do provide specification for development teams now and then... I think one of the major stumbling blocks for anyone in a development position (such as KLCC) is weak leadership and project management/planning. Project timelines are more often than not, too aggressive, and the solution most PMs see is to throw more resources at a problem. They don't necessarily see the scope of development that is required. All they get is an estimate, and how much it will cost...


That is so true, I have seem many programmer shifting companies to due poor PM and EXTREMELY tight deadlines.
I can see how engineer don't see eye to eye with management now, since it is similar for us (the developer) as well.

Unfortunately, I would think this is a stage every that every CPSC grad would have to go through (being a developer), as most of the IT companies don’t usually promote a recent grad to the PM level right the way, not until they have several projects under their belts.

[integra_vate]

I'm down to 4 classes (electives) in CPSC at U I wouldn't say its easy but again its not for everyone. I like the program and I'm glad they placed difficult courses in year to year just to put more pressure on students maybe its a CPSC thing others went through it and so shall the next. All I can say from my perspective is this the blanket of opportunity for CPSC majors are endless some are hard core programmers but thats not what CPSC is all about we also took courses such as SENG and CPSC333 which may completely suck because we are stuck in groups of 10-12 people we may not get along with but the fact is there is more to software development then just programming. There is also customer support and contact to make it successful from what I can see. But again I have not graduated maybe a CPSC grad working can back me up on this one. The key thing for me is working with people and to be a programmer you must be able to work with people otherwise your coding for what you like and not what your customer likes.

Bitter Ben is still so Bitter...

[hingkit]

CPSC is very very broad ... its all up to yourself to bring it to whatever level you want ... the things you learn in university are almost non-existant in the real world .... social skills and the ability to learn are your key take away ...

I moved through many different roles since I graduated from UC last year:

- developer/coder -> senior developer
- team leader for applications
- Project Manager
- E-Marketing
- Business Analyst (currently)

4 companies in the past 3 years ...

Speak-up / be heard / gain the expereience ... no company wants just a 'coder' ...

[RiCE-DaDDy]

nothing is wrong with being a developer and i would like to think a good number of cpsc grads want to develop lol. If u get in with a good product based company, then it aint bad.

[KLCC]

The way I look at this is:

You gotta be a system developer (coder) -> system architect -> project manager

Like I said before, I hate people (ie. sales manager) jumping into a project with little or no coding experience and mess up the whole development schedule because *he/she* thought it was something SIMPLE (verbally) to implement without any analysis, background research or thoughts about how a function or a sequence should flow...(i.e. no documentation).... * POORLY managed project *

Had a PM had actually gone through the whole cycle. He/she ought to know how long one little function can take, what kind of man power is required and general procedure of solving such a problem...etc.... and if customer did demand a change, he would recommend what is achievable or what's not, and what kind of minor tweak can be done for the additional feature....and etc.
Hell...if coder have problem, the PM would know how to solve it, instead of replying to you "I don't know, why don't you look it up in a book, don't you know somebody who can do that, or why don't you ask other developers for help?" :guns:

Anyway..... that's end of my rant.


:goflames:

[RiCE-DaDDy]

^ thats a badly run company then

[the_fornicator]

if I had a choice to redo my degree, I wouldn't have chosen com sci, but rather eng something. probably mech or elec eng.

$0.02

[FatboyTheHungry]

Originally posted by RiCE-DaDDy
^ thats a badly run company then

People would be apalled at the number of badly run tech service companies I have seen. Then again, someone else's mismanagement is the reason I get brought in to fix things...

[KLCC]

if I had a choice to redo my degree, I probably would choose CPSC again since that's what I loved....but probably study my butts so I can enrolled in grad studies....

My $0.02

[PaleRider]

Graduated couple years ago :) Personally I didn't like low-level stuff (otherwise I would just go for Comp. Engineering or EE)

Defintely recommend SENG 513 web-based system, 3 hours programming final but you learn a lot, stuff you can use in real-life.

computer science is not all about programming.