My new 1990 RX7 Vert Turbo

[Boosted_TL]

http://forums.beyond.ca/showthread.php?s=&postid=1312150#post1312150

[ringmaster]

wow that headlight conversion is sweet :D
nice car

[trikypenguin]

nice work!!

[Mr_ET]

good job man!

[JAYMEZ]

You buy her from Adam @ Rx-7 specialties? Looks bad ass

[Hash_man]

Wow super clean RX7 thats sick/ :thumbsup:

[Boosted_TL]

Originally posted by JAYMEZ_STi
You buy her from Adam @ Rx-7 specialties? Looks bad ass


No actually I bought it from a good buddy of mine. He bought it from Adam drove it 500KM's and sold to me :D

Besides he needs to concentrate on his 600WHP Eclipse !! And I need to make this bitch 400WHP

[Z24_3.1.]

:drool:

[JAYMEZ]

Originally posted by Boosted_TL



No actually I bought it from a good buddy of mine. He bought it from Adam drove it 500KM's and sold to me :D

Besides he needs to concentrate on his 600WHP Eclipse !! And I need to make this bitch 400WHP


Thats cool dude , ive been in her a few times when she just got imported , is everything fixed now? I remember it was in the shop a few times.

Oh yah , are you on www.rx7club.com yet?

[Boosted_TL]

Yeah, new clutch - RPS Max 6 Puck and the turbo ate crap and the motor is actually done. I am getting the motor rebuilt and a street port added. I am not sure which seals to use ( 2mm or 3mm)..... Then I add the goodies, TD08, 720cc Primary's and 1300cc Secondary's and all the Re Amemiya gear, PFC and the list goes on..... Could do 500WHP with that setup, but I want this one to last...haha so a conservative 400WHP on pump gas, I will be happy about.

Suggestions on a good tuner with rotarys?

And yeah, I am on rx7club....

How's that gorgeous MK4?

[JAYMEZ]

I would go with the 3mm seals , but thats just me , are you going to port the engine as well? But defianlt get the PFC FIRST!! A good tuner on rotorys? Hrmm i think its silverrotor on RX7 forums who knows how to do it properly .

MK4 is awesome , im also looking for another FD :D

[Boosted_TL]

I was thinking 3mm aswell, but its not how they do it in Japan, they swear on 2mm even with an 800hp monster. I want to find out why first.

What do you mean port the engine? I am new to rotary's! Do you mean machining the housing's? If so, yes.

I might look into a Bridge Port instead, still need to do more research on that.... I have heard that an extra Bridge Port will weaken the motor and will NOT last long...... I read the opposite! I read its the best mod to do as it doesnt change the motors durability that much. That was word for word!

The PFC is a for sure, It will be coming from Japan * New *

Have you heard anything about Cam @ Lightspeed Innovations with tuning rotary's? I have heard he knows his stuff in that department. Is Silverrotor local?

I saw that you are looking for an FD shell, do I smell a piston motor swap?

[Akagi Redsuns]

Why go with 3mm seals? You are increasing the friction surface by 50%, and machining off the harden surface of the rotor to fit in the thicker seals. Doesn't make sense to me. I know shops like to use them so they can use off-spec rotors and tout thaty they resist detonation "better".

rx7club.com has tons of threads on this, I would read through them and make up your mind about them.

In any case, it's good looking car and I look forward to seeing it run next summer. I do hope all your mods go together well.

In choosing a tuner or shop to get work done on your RX-7, get impartial references of thier work through thier current or past customers. You don't want to find out the hard way that they don't know what they are doing.

[4doorj]

sweet car man!!!!:thumbsup:
its me jason... brandons friend... dont know if u still remember...
but i remember seeing that car... its hot!

[legendboy]

sweet car dude :love:

[JAYMEZ]

Originally posted by Akagi Redsuns
Why go with 3mm seals? You are increasing the friction surface by 50%, and machining off the harden surface of the rotor to fit in the thicker seals. Doesn't make sense to me. I know shops like to use them so they can use off-spec rotors and tout thaty they resist detonation "better".

rx7club.com has tons of threads on this, I would read through them and make up your mind about them.

In any case, it's good looking car and I look forward to seeing it run next summer. I do hope all your mods go together well.

In choosing a tuner or shop to get work done on your RX-7, get impartial references of thier work through thier current or past customers. You don't want to find out the hard way that they don't know what they are doing.



I went 3mm on my old FD , Adam at RX-7 specialties swears by them , and it is done in most 20bs that can over 1000hp.

But for your porting of your engine , dont go Bridge port , you wont get warranty on it , and it is STUPIDLY loud!
:D

[Boosted_TL]

Originally posted by Akagi Redsuns
Why go with 3mm seals? You are increasing the friction surface by 50%, and machining off the harden surface of the rotor to fit in the thicker seals. Doesn't make sense to me. I know shops like to use them so they can use off-spec rotors and tout thaty they resist detonation "better".

rx7club.com has tons of threads on this, I would read through them and make up your mind about them.

In any case, it's good looking car and I look forward to seeing it run next summer. I do hope all your mods go together well.

In choosing a tuner or shop to get work done on your RX-7, get impartial references of thier work through thier current or past customers. You don't want to find out the hard way that they don't know what they are doing.

Yeah I must say I agree what you say about the seal size. I will do some research. Good thing is I have 5.5 ish months to complete this. I am not pulling the motor until march anyway. I think next year will be more autocross with this car. Dragging is addictive to me so ofcourse I will be doing some runs.

What do you mean you hope all my mods go together? I am new to rotary's and dont take offence to critizism...... Would you change something?



Originally posted by 4doorj
sweet car man!!!!:thumbsup:
its me jason... brandons friend... dont know if u still remember...
but i remember seeing that car... its hot!

Hey J, ofcourse I remember you !! S2K is looing good, but the amount of space in the engine bay is just asking to be boosted..





Originally posted by legendboy
sweet car dude :love:


Thanks Corey !! I love it and your newest purchase is fuckin hawt aswell.....get on that Legendboy kit already......:D

[ninjak84]

Oh shit nice ride man
I love those body pieces

[CSMRX7]

I would not do 3mm seals. I know Adam swears by them but take a look atthe dyno plots of 2mm cars vs 3mm cars. 3mm cars run out of steam at or before 7000 rpm due to friction whereas 2mm seals keep on going with more power. Plus during detonation I highly doubt that the extra streangth provided by 3mm is enough to actually prevent failure and have yet to see any proof otherwise.

Add on to this that Mazda has never used 3mm seals in any enjine (wouldn't they choose better reliability over power especially for street cars) and the whole compression issue with 3mm.

I think 2mm is the way to go!

[BerserkerCatSplat]

Originally posted by JAYMEZ_STi

MK4 is awesome , im also looking for another FD :D

What, the Supra just not good enough anymore ;)

[JAYMEZ]

Originally posted by CSMRX7
I would not do 3mm seals. I know Adam swears by them but take a look atthe dyno plots of 2mm cars vs 3mm cars. 3mm cars run out of steam at or before 7000 rpm due to friction whereas 2mm seals keep on going with more power. Plus during detonation I highly doubt that the extra streangth provided by 3mm is enough to actually prevent failure and have yet to see any proof otherwise.

Add on to this that Mazda has never used 3mm seals in any enjine (wouldn't they choose better reliability over power especially for street cars) and the whole compression issue with 3mm.

I think 2mm is the way to go!

Yah but Mazda didnt get the rotory engine right in the first place lol. I swear by 3mm seals muahahah =) , I guess each there own



Originally posted by BerserkerCatSplat


What, the Supra just not good enough anymore ;)

No ill keep the Supra , i just have huge plans with the FD ... *cough* 20b

[CSMRX7]

Originally posted by JAYMEZ_STi


Yah but Mazda didnt get the rotory engine right in the first place lol. I swear by 3mm seals muahahah =) , I guess each there own




No ill keep the Supra , i just have huge plans with the FD ... *cough* 20b

Do you really beleive that? Then why in later versions of the rotary did they stick with 2mm seals?

I just don't believe all the hype, if you have bad enough detonation to blow a 2mm seal it is not gonna have to be much worse to blow off a corner on a 3mm.

If we neglect the 3mm/2mm durability question (because we will never agree on this even though there is no physical proof that the added strength of 3mm seals will prevent failure under detonation), you can not argue that 2mm seals give you much better power at low rpm and lower boost levels, and more power on the top end so just more power all over the power band. Regardless of seals I think better tuning is always more important to rotary reliability anyways.

Anyways congrats on the killer car, and James I still need to see the supra!!!

[Gravy_83]

one of the nicest fc verts I've seen ever. lovin the headlights and the rims

[tsi_neal]

Originally posted by CSMRX7


Do you really beleive that? Then why in later versions of the rotary did they stick with 2mm seals?

I just don't believe all the hype, if you have bad enough detonation to blow a 2mm seal it is not gonna have to be much worse to blow off a corner on a 3mm.

If we neglect the 3mm/2mm durability question (because we will never agree on this even though there is no physical proof that the added strength of 3mm seals will prevent failure under detonation), you can not argue that 2mm seals give you much better power at low rpm and lower boost levels, and more power on the top end so just more power all over the power band. Regardless of seals I think better tuning is always more important to rotary reliability anyways.

Anyways congrats on the killer car, and James I still need to see the supra!!!

Not that ive owned the car for that long, or even dont that much 2mm vs 3mm reading, but ill say this. how much time does the average rotary spend at low rpm? Myself i dont think the car has seen below 3000rpm if i wasnt in 1st, so does any loss of compression at low rpm matter that much? Im guessing no. and the added friction at high rpm i havent seen any substantial proof of this, but again i havent done that much reading (so if you have a good link send it to me please) and from what ive experianced and seen most FD's on stock turbos run outta go somewhere around 7000rpm anyways, so why not have the a stronger seal?

Does the renisis use 2mm seals? Im assuming yes, but would it still be on 2mm seals if it came factory boosted?

Im not an advocate of either or, just trying to learn by asking questions.

[Boosted_TL]

^^ Thanks I appreciate that !

And CSM nailed it, tuning is whats important with rotary's. The seal thing from what I have read is to each there own and what people have used and done well with. If you have used 3mm and it worked for you, you will pass that info along, same with the 2mm...... I think I will stay with 2mm, Japan is WAY ahead of anywhere with rotary's and there has to be a reason for that!

I will just take extra time with tuning to be safe. The thing I know with RX's is that when you tune it.....LEAVE IT, dont fuck with boost levels or anything like that.....If its built right, tuned right and safe, she will last a few years guaranteed.......

Thanks for all the comments and help guys, this is what Beyond is for, not like the common bull shit that goes on.

[CSMRX7]

Originally posted by tsi_neal


Not that ive owned the car for that long, or even dont that much 2mm vs 3mm reading, but ill say this. how much time does the average rotary spend at low rpm? Myself i dont think the car has seen below 3000rpm if i wasnt in 1st, so does any loss of compression at low rpm matter that much? Im guessing no. and the added friction at high rpm i havent seen any substantial proof of this, but again i havent done that much reading (so if you have a good link send it to me please) and from what ive experianced and seen most FD's on stock turbos run outta go somewhere around 7000rpm anyways, so why not have the a stronger seal?

Does the renisis use 2mm seals? Im assuming yes, but would it still be on 2mm seals if it came factory boosted?

Im not an advocate of either or, just trying to learn by asking questions.

Your right about a stock port. On a stock ported engine you may not see much of a difference. But how many people rebuild with stock ports?

If you look at dyno sheets over on rx7club and compare 3mm to 2mm on streetported engines with any turbo setup you'll see what I am talking about.

I knwo what you mean about the compression thing, it just means that at low rpm you will have poor response, and the low compresion will cause poor throttle response all over the power band.

The renesis does use 2mm seals, and so do the later rx7s that pushed higher boost and 20Bs as well as the rx7 japanese race cars like the 787b and the Amemiya high hp race cars.

[tsi_neal]

Originally posted by CSMRX7


Your right about a stock port. On a stock ported engine you may not see much of a difference. But how many people rebuild with stock ports?

If you look at dyno sheets over on rx7club and compare 3mm to 2mm on streetported engines with any turbo setup you'll see what I am talking about.

I knwo what you mean about the compression thing, it just means that at low rpm you will have poor response, and the low compresion will cause poor throttle response all over the power band.

The renesis does use 2mm seals, and so do the later rx7s that pushed higher boost and 20Bs as well as the rx7 japanese race cars like the 787b and the Amemiya high hp race cars.


Ok, playing devils advocate here, but on a street ported engine you will already get reduced low rpm response so again meh to the low rpm thing...
untill now i havent heard that about the reduced compression throughout the rev range, and the car doesnt feel weak at all at any point above 3000rpm, so im not sure i really belive that (or maybe that i dont want to believe it). and when im feeling more in the mood to research things ill find some dyno pulls and some more reading to check out.

[CSMRX7]

Originally posted by tsi_neal



Ok, playing devils advocate here, but on a street ported engine you will already get reduced low rpm response so again meh to the low rpm thing...
untill now i havent heard that about the reduced compression throughout the rev range, and the car doesnt feel weak at all at any point above 3000rpm, so im not sure i really belive that (or maybe that i dont want to believe it). and when im feeling more in the mood to research things ill find some dyno pulls and some more reading to check out.

Its hard to know when you don't have anything to compare to. I think a 3mm streetport feels a lot like my 2mm stock port.

But a 2mm streetport will pull all the way to and past redline so expect 30+ more hp at 8000 rpm.

There is a really good dyno comparison page hosted by someone on rx7club, if your reading about dyno and single turbo stuff I am sure you will come across it.

Also if you are intersted in the 2mm/3mm argument there is some good stuff in the rotary performance forum.

Hope that helps!

[Maxt]

3mm seals metallic seals due to weight will chatter at lower rpms than 2 mm, on top of that, they retain more heat and will warp before a 2mm will. The sealing does matter, it shows up in the fuel mileage, the bottome end power, and the idling capability of the car, and if it leaks down 20% more at idle, it will leak down more across the entire board.
You also have to realize that is impossible to get the slot in the right place, keep it straight with no taper...I have a few rotors that have been milled for 3 mm seals, every slot is offset, crooked and tapered, on a 6 cylinder motor, its would be like ending up with a motor with every cylinder a different displacement and a different compression ratio. Very critical to have uniform combustion pressure on a boosted motor when it comes to tuning..
Would you machine old pistons for new piston rings, and Ignore the rest of the pistons wear points?....Milling worn rotors for 3mm apex seals, only addresses one wear point of the rotor, and on top of that removes the hardening of the seal slot, its a downgrade not an upgrade....The apex seal material is also critical, mazda has ensured that housing and apex material is compatible, once you change one dynamic, such as older or aftemarket material with newer housings, you are in no mans in land in regards to seal compatibity and resonance, and the only people on earth with the capability of measuring resonance on a running motor is mazda..
As for that turbo the td08 is only the body family, whats the last set of numbers on it?

[lastprodigy]

That RX-7 is hot...nicest 2nd gen ive seen...:thumbsup:

[Billy]

that is definitely one of the nicest FC around. :drool:

[JAYMEZ]

Yah Jason I gota show you the Supra , and Neal we still need to meet up LOL , ive been so busy with stupid exams , but now I am freee :thumbsup:

[CSMRX7]

Originally posted by Maxt
3mm seals metallic seals due to weight will chatter at lower rpms than 2 mm, on top of that, they retain more heat and will warp before a 2mm will. The sealing does matter, it shows up in the fuel mileage, the bottome end power, and the idling capability of the car, and if it leaks down 20% more at idle, it will leak down more across the entire board.
You also have to realize that is impossible to get the slot in the right place, keep it straight with no taper...I have a few rotors that have been milled for 3 mm seals, every slot is offset, crooked and tapered, on a 6 cylinder motor, its would be like ending up with a motor with every cylinder a different displacement and a different compression ratio. Very critical to have uniform combustion pressure on a boosted motor when it comes to tuning..
Would you machine old pistons for new piston rings, and Ignore the rest of the pistons wear points?....Milling worn rotors for 3mm apex seals, only addresses one wear point of the rotor, and on top of that removes the hardening of the seal slot, its a downgrade not an upgrade....The apex seal material is also critical, mazda has ensured that housing and apex material is compatible, once you change one dynamic, such as older or aftemarket material with newer housings, you are in no mans in land in regards to seal compatibity and resonance, and the only people on earth with the capability of measuring resonance on a running motor is mazda..
As for that turbo the td08 is only the body family, whats the last set of numbers on it?

I was waiting for your reply Max!

Kinda OT but how is the p-port coming?

[CSMRX7]

Originally posted by JAYMEZ_STi
Yah Jason I gota show you the Supra , and Neal we still need to meet up LOL , ive been so busy with stupid exams , but now I am freee :thumbsup:

We'll have to get together after x-mas! I want a ride to see if it is that much superior to the FD :rolleyes: j/k

[brandon]

Looks hawt warren!

[Boosted_TL]

Originally posted by Maxt
3mm seals metallic seals due to weight will chatter at lower rpms than 2 mm, on top of that, they retain more heat and will warp before a 2mm will. The sealing does matter, it shows up in the fuel mileage, the bottome end power, and the idling capability of the car, and if it leaks down 20% more at idle, it will leak down more across the entire board.
You also have to realize that is impossible to get the slot in the right place, keep it straight with no taper...I have a few rotors that have been milled for 3 mm seals, every slot is offset, crooked and tapered, on a 6 cylinder motor, its would be like ending up with a motor with every cylinder a different displacement and a different compression ratio. Very critical to have uniform combustion pressure on a boosted motor when it comes to tuning..
Would you machine old pistons for new piston rings, and Ignore the rest of the pistons wear points?....Milling worn rotors for 3mm apex seals, only addresses one wear point of the rotor, and on top of that removes the hardening of the seal slot, its a downgrade not an upgrade....The apex seal material is also critical, mazda has ensured that housing and apex material is compatible, once you change one dynamic, such as older or aftemarket material with newer housings, you are in no mans in land in regards to seal compatibity and resonance, and the only people on earth with the capability of measuring resonance on a running motor is mazda..
As for that turbo the td08 is only the body family, whats the last set of numbers on it?


Yeah TDO8 is only the housing, its a 29B. ( 29 blade size, B trim type )

I am thinking 2mm is the way to go! Now I just gotta find the right person to build the motor!!

[CSMRX7]

Originally posted by Boosted_TL




I am thinking 2mm is the way to go! Now I just gotta find the right person to build the motor!!

Hehe thats the tough part!

[Maxt]

Originally posted by CSMRX7


I was waiting for your reply Max!

Kinda OT but how is the p-port coming?

The p-port is done pretty much engine wise, I needed to pick what ems I was gonna use, I picked up a new ems for the black car, so the haltech will be coming out of it and going into the grey fc with the p-port.. I am in the process of fitting a power FC to my black car, the power fc was never meant for the s4 fc3s, so its basically a total rewiring job of the car.
How is your car coming along ?... Ready to go for next year?...
I have been out of the loop locally for a bit so not sure what everyone has been up to..
http://www.performance-shop.com/yabbse/index.php?topic=33767.0
I hope you kept your car white, I was never a fan of white cars, but it is one of the best colours with a kit'ed up FD...especially pearl :drool: ....

Td08-29b.. Thats a pretty old turbo, still a good size though, its a good drag turbo for the 3sgte, sr20det. There are a few cars in our local group here running mitsu turbos, specifically the td07-25g's..
Maxt

[tsi_neal]

Originally posted by Maxt


The p-port is done pretty much engine wise, I needed to pick what ems I was gonna use, I picked up a new ems for the black car, so the haltech will be coming out of it and going into the grey fc with the p-port.. I am in the process of fitting a power FC to my black car, the power fc was never meant for the s4 fc3s, so its basically a total rewiring job of the car.
How is your car coming along ?... Ready to go for next year?...
I have been out of the loop locally for a bit so not sure what everyone has been up to..
http://www.performance-shop.com/yabbse/index.php?topic=33767.0
I hope you kept your car white, I was never a fan of white cars, but it is one of the best colours with a kit'ed up FD...especially pearl :drool: ....

Td08-29b.. Thats a pretty old turbo, still a good size though, its a good drag turbo for the 3sgte, sr20det. There are a few cars in our local group here running mitsu turbos, specifically the td07-25g's..
Maxt

Read your post on the other board, and it got me thinking would you be one to talk to about tuning a car with the PFC?

[Euro_Trash]

Nice looking car... should be fun in the summers

IMO needs a new color though, find something that stands out

[Raz2]

is it just me, but wouldn't a 2.5mm sort of be the best of both worlds? :rofl:

- Rasmus

[Boosted_TL]

Originally posted by Maxt


The p-port is done pretty much engine wise, I needed to pick what ems I was gonna use, I picked up a new ems for the black car, so the haltech will be coming out of it and going into the grey fc with the p-port.. I am in the process of fitting a power FC to my black car, the power fc was never meant for the s4 fc3s, so its basically a total rewiring job of the car.
How is your car coming along ?... Ready to go for next year?...
I have been out of the loop locally for a bit so not sure what everyone has been up to..
http://www.performance-shop.com/yabbse/index.php?topic=33767.0
I hope you kept your car white, I was never a fan of white cars, but it is one of the best colours with a kit'ed up FD...especially pearl :drool: ....

Td08-29b.. Thats a pretty old turbo, still a good size though, its a good drag turbo for the 3sgte, sr20det. There are a few cars in our local group here running mitsu turbos, specifically the td07-25g's..
Maxt

What does old have to do with anything?? haha, I dont have money for an HKS T51R..... Plus this is an Re Turbo Kit, custom fitted for my S5 motor, what more could you ask for?, the Turbo is in new condition, I know the previous owner in Japan, 460WHP FC, he swtiched to your turbo, Turbo has seen more days on a shelf than in his car!! And yea, so what if it doesnt spool untill 4000K, I am not building a drag queen......:rofl:

[Maxt]

You will find it probably spools faster than that especially on a well ported motor, its a little on the tight side for a rotary on the exhaust side... RE amemiya likes the Td07-25g, damn near every car that comes out of his shop is running that turbo...
On the older mitsu turbos, they had a real tight blade design,which in new designs they opened up quite a bit and rounded out the housings for a broader efficiency range , the newer performance turbos in that range use a 101 mm inlet instead of the wheel matched inlet of the older mitsu turbos.
It will probably work pretty good, but its gonna be a narrow range turbo, you will find its very picky where it will make best power in regards to boost pressure, in so that you will find it might make more power at say 14 psi, then it does at 12 or 16, those arent hard numbers, you will have to play with it, but the peakiness is the hallmark of those older designs...
But once you get it all together it will be nice package, with a fmic, good fuel system etc etc..
Don't be afraid of a bridgeport either, I bridgeported my car 2 years ago and would never go back to a streetport.

[CSMRX7]

So no progress yet. All the parts are sourced and the car is sitting in the body shop waiting to get worked on. I am in no hurry so it really doesn't matter as long as its all back together before April.

The one thing I am currently debating is getting a FMIC, but I am afraid of cutting up my nice new Vertex bumper:)

[Boosted_TL]

Yeah I agree with everything you are saying Max, except for the little on the tight side for a rotary? Its a T88 Exhaust side.....how is that small?

And yeah, I am guessing spool time will be high on the car, but the port will make it better.

And tuning is gonna be interesting....Can you refer anyone?

This is what the car will have:

Ported and Street Port added S5 13BT
Re Amemiya TDO8 Turbo Kit
Ported Exhaust Manny
Re Amemiya DP
Re Amemiya Exhaust
720cc Prim's and 1300cc Sec Injectors
Power FC and Commander
HKS SSQ BOV
Tial 46mm Wastegate
HKS FMIC
FD Pump or else a 255

I want 400WHP on 94oct

[Maxt]

That turbo has the middle of the road turbine on it, you can get alot of different exhaust sides for the mitsu turbos..
I tune myself, and I have alot of training and experience tuning rotaries, I only like to tune the car though if I built the motor, since the two go hand in hand, if you cant tune, you shouldnt be building motors and vice versa...And the quality of the tune depends on the quality of the motor..
If all you want is 400, that isnt really the turbo for the job...There are better choices out there for a 400 rwhp car that will give you better spool and response, and be way more efficient at the boost levels required to do 400.. There is little sense in living with the lag of a turbo sized for 25 psi, then running it at 12, small turbo cars will kick your butt everywhere, till you tune for 25 psi...400 rwhp on a dyno, is one thing, the reality of the given powerband on the street is another..
The top mount even if its an ARC will never do 400rwhp....

[CSMRX7]

Originally posted by Maxt
That turbo has the middle of the road turbine on it, you can get alot of different exhaust sides for the mitsu turbos..
I tune myself, and I have alot of training and experience tuning rotaries, I only like to tune the car though if I built the motor, since the two go hand in hand, if you cant tune, you shouldnt be building motors and vice versa...And the quality of the tune depends on the quality of the motor..
If all you want is 400, that isnt really the turbo for the job...There are better choices out there for a 400 rwhp car that will give you better spool and response, and be way more efficient at the boost levels required to do 400.. There is little sense in living with the lag of a turbo sized for 25 psi, then running it at 12, small turbo cars will kick your butt everywhere, till you tune for 25 psi...400 rwhp on a dyno, is one thing, the reality of the given powerband on the street is another..
The top mount even if its an ARC will never do 400rwhp....

So will you build me an engine and tune it then ;)

[tsi_neal]

Originally posted by Maxt
...
I tune myself, and I have alot of training and experience tuning rotaries, I only like to tune the car though if I built the motor, since the two go hand in hand, if you cant tune, you shouldnt be building motors and vice versa...And the quality of the tune depends on the quality of the motor..
...

So what about those of us who bought a car in desperate need of a good tune and are willing to pay for it, can you help those guys out? Actually id like the chance to pick your brain about rotaries as well (for some reason that is a perfectly normal thing to say but to read it seems odd)

[forkdork]

wow...that is CRAZY nice!

[Chris Ng]

Get adam at rx7specialties to build and tune the car for ya...
heck maybe he can even put the car on dr. lightspeed's dyno for you...

anyhow....

[AllGoNoShow]

I still wanna go check out Dr Lightspeeds Dyno, where is it located up in RD?

He invited me out for a meet in my old car but I never made it up there, next summer I should make it up with the BMW and possibly have a legendboy slapped on by then, maybe throw it on his Dyno and see what kinda numbers I can pull off in RD.

[Maxt]

Originally posted by tsi_neal


So what about those of us who bought a car in desperate need of a good tune and are willing to pay for it, can you help those guys out? Actually id like the chance to pick your brain about rotaries as well (for some reason that is a perfectly normal thing to say but to read it seems odd)
Yeah, I dont mind helping people and stuff, alot of stuff we do for nothing in our little group just to help fellow owners out, since there is so little info out there on the cars, and its fun to do..

Most of you guys are running power fc's with dataloggits, I have recently purchased the same ecu, the only difference was i learned the power FC with the apexi power excell software, not the dataloggit stuff, so I have to have a look at the aftermarket dataloggit software and see what the difference is in it, from the screen shots, it looks like its just missing some options from the genuine apexi software...
The power FC and the FCon are probably the 2 best ecus on the market for a turbo rotary, some people like other systems, and some work relatively well, I have had pretty good results with the haltech and Chris has done well with the wolf 3d, but both those systems lack features that make the first 2 work well..I Think Chris will like the power fc when he sees it since he's a hand controller god with the wolf..

If I am correct, you bought Jaymez's car, I love that scoot hood...I think every FD in Japan has one, its pretty popular...I am suprised noone here has the apexi power wing, its on every car there...

[CSMRX7]

Originally posted by Maxt

Yeah, I dont mind helping people and stuff, alot of stuff we do for nothing in our little group just to help fellow owners out, since there is so little info out there on the cars, and its fun to do..

Most of you guys are running power fc's with dataloggits, I have recently purchased the same ecu, the only difference was i learned the power FC with the apexi power excell software, not the dataloggit stuff, so I have to have a look at the aftermarket dataloggit software and see what the difference is in it, from the screen shots, it looks like its just missing some options from the genuine apexi software...
The power FC and the FCon are probably the 2 best ecus on the market for a turbo rotary, some people like other systems, and some work relatively well, I have had pretty good results with the haltech and Chris has done well with the wolf 3d, but both those systems lack features that make the first 2 work well..I Think Chris will like the power fc when he sees it since he's a hand controller god with the wolf..

If I am correct, you bought Jaymez's car, I love that scoot hood...I think every FD in Japan has one, its pretty popular...I am suprised noone here has the apexi power wing, its on every car there...

Which wing is the power wing?

[tsi_neal]

Originally posted by Maxt

Yeah, I dont mind helping people and stuff, alot of stuff we do for nothing in our little group just to help fellow owners out, since there is so little info out there on the cars, and its fun to do..

Most of you guys are running power fc's with dataloggits, I have recently purchased the same ecu, the only difference was i learned the power FC with the apexi power excell software, not the dataloggit stuff, so I have to have a look at the aftermarket dataloggit software and see what the difference is in it, from the screen shots, it looks like its just missing some options from the genuine apexi software...
The power FC and the FCon are probably the 2 best ecus on the market for a turbo rotary, some people like other systems, and some work relatively well, I have had pretty good results with the haltech and Chris has done well with the wolf 3d, but both those systems lack features that make the first 2 work well..I Think Chris will like the power fc when he sees it since he's a hand controller god with the wolf..

If I am correct, you bought Jaymez's car, I love that scoot hood...I think every FD in Japan has one, its pretty popular...I am suprised noone here has the apexi power wing, its on every car there...


Yea thats right picked up Jaymez's car. At first i absolutly hated the hood and had every intention of putting the stock one back on, but man did it ever grow on me, its gonna get colour matched to the rest of the car and the wing is probably gonna go (im still really undecided on that one).
Thats really cool that youll be willing to help me get this thing tuned, Ive been dealing with piston motors set up with MAF sensors that Im feeling pretty lost with a MAP, not to mention a rotary...

[JAYMEZ]

Originally posted by Chris Ng
Get adam at rx7specialties to build and tune the car for ya...
heck maybe he can even put the car on dr. lightspeed's dyno for you...

anyhow....


lol Chris. :rofl:


^^^ Max I am so jealous , I wish I could go to Japan, you need to post some pics of all the stuff they are doing up there!

[Bones21]

that is one of the cleanest 2nd gen's ive seen in a long time.

[Boosted_TL]

Originally posted by Maxt
That turbo has the middle of the road turbine on it, you can get alot of different exhaust sides for the mitsu turbos..
I tune myself, and I have alot of training and experience tuning rotaries, I only like to tune the car though if I built the motor, since the two go hand in hand, if you cant tune, you shouldnt be building motors and vice versa...And the quality of the tune depends on the quality of the motor..
If all you want is 400, that isnt really the turbo for the job...There are better choices out there for a 400 rwhp car that will give you better spool and response, and be way more efficient at the boost levels required to do 400.. There is little sense in living with the lag of a turbo sized for 25 psi, then running it at 12, small turbo cars will kick your butt everywhere, till you tune for 25 psi...400 rwhp on a dyno, is one thing, the reality of the given powerband on the street is another..
The top mount even if its an ARC will never do 400rwhp....

Ofcourse there are better choices out there for a setup!! But this is what I have and its what I am going for. I want 400ish with a conservative tune at around 14psi, remember, I am not feeding this car with a high octane for daily driving. I'm looking at running pump. There will be a time and a place where it will be needed and it will go back on the dyno for a sub 20's PSI and 500WHP.....

You cant tune for 20psi with pump gas, 14 is the max I would go. And I know this turbo is a " bigger " chioce for someone who wants 400hp, If you knew what I payed for it, this conversation would not be going on...

Yes this setup will do over 500 over 20psi, why drive it to the max all the time? The transmission and diff will eat the dust, I am one of those guys who wants shit to last....Last summer I drove a 350hp DSM AWD everyday.....18 000K later and all that was done was 3000k oil changes.....You dont hear of that very often...

Anyways Max, I appreciate your comments...In a perfect world I would have the ultimate setup. There are pro and cons to everyones setup... I have a monster turbo for a smaller number in mind and you have burgandy interior....lol ( I had to )

I guess we will just have to see how everything works out.





Originally posted by Chris Ng
Get adam at rx7specialties to build and tune the car for ya...
heck maybe he can even put the car on dr. lightspeed's dyno for you...

anyhow....

Something's not right about your wording? haha, do I smell sarcasm....

[Chris Ng]

hmm...

I'm tuned for 18psi on 91 octane and run it all day long..

400rwhp at 14psi on that turbo? I don't belive it will happen.. if on the off chance I'm wrong, I'll eat my words and appologize..

As for the sarcasim.. nope.. none at all.. adam's own worse enemy is himself.. personally, I'd like to see someone like yourself bring your car to him and tell him your goals and see if he can actually achieve it.. that way, when he fails, I can laugh at his attempt again and add one more person who prolly will not go back to him... once again.. if I end up being wrong, I'll appologize..

anyhow..

[Boosted_TL]

What turbo are you running on your car Chris? I heard about your dyno numbers. Are you 390 Wheel @ 18psi on pump gas?

And you are right about hp levels at that psi, I would guesstimate 360WHP, I put 400 to see if who knows what they are talking about, you have now rectified that.


And obviously you have a problem with Adam, I dont know him but plan on dropping thousands on his shop in a few months, care to PM me some reasons why I shouldnt? And possibly give me direction on where to head?

[Maxt]

Originally posted by Boosted_TL


Ofcourse there are better choices out there for a setup!! But this is what I have and its what I am going for. I want 400ish with a conservative tune at around 14psi, remember, I am not feeding this car with a high octane for daily driving. I'm looking at running pump. There will be a time and a place where it will be needed and it will go back on the dyno for a sub 20's PSI and 500WHP.....

You cant tune for 20psi with pump gas, 14 is the max I would go. And I know this turbo is a " bigger " chioce for someone who wants 400hp, If you knew what I payed for it, this conversation would not be going on...

Yes this setup will do over 500 over 20psi, why drive it to the max all the time? The transmission and diff will eat the dust, I am one of those guys who wants shit to last....Last summer I drove a 350hp DSM AWD everyday.....18 000K later and all that was done was 3000k oil changes.....You dont hear of that very often...


It gets back to what I was saying before, with large turbos you wont make power at low boost levels, at low boost they tend to run down the surge line, for 14 psi I would run a T04e or to4b someting like that... TO make it worth while running somthing big, you have to run large boost, otherwise the power is below of that smaller turbos and the car ends up slower..
As for pump gas, I ran 20 psi all summer long on 91 pump gas, with a high setting of 23 psi, the only thing that was maxed out was my injectors and my exhaust system, if I had more, I would have run more boost on pump gas..I am making modifications over winter to run more than 25 psi for next year.. I dont think that setup will touch 500 at 20 psi on pump gas though to be honest..
I would run that turbo minimum about 16 psi, and track the backpressure to see where the ratio gets out of hand and go from there.. The power output doesnt really affect reliablity, its the tuning that does, there are alot of people out there with unreliable 200-300 rwhp cars due just to tuning...I know of a guy that daily drives a 620 rwhp fc, and its his only car...
As Chris knows and will tell you , those turbos have a point where they come alive and below that, they are pretty flat and its well above 14 psi you need to be.....

[Maxt]

Originally posted by CSMRX7


Which wing is the power wing?

There is the Decs power wing, that is the hot fad, its adjustable via servo motor from driver seat, and at traffic lights people line up, and dick around with the wing like formula tuners then take off...
Its pretty funny to see on the street, but the circuit racers I talked to swear by them on track with long straights that hold water during rain...
As for your motor, figure out what kinda power you want, then lets talk...

[Chris Ng]

my dyno run was made at 16.5psi according to my datalogs
unfortunately I went pig rich after 6200rpm.. will have to wait till spring I guess
Max is correct..big turbos have a threshold boost level where they start to make their real power.. my TD07 for example needs 13psi before it starts to come alive..below that, it just runs flat.. your motor condition, porting, tuning, exaust etc will
then dictate how quick you make that kind of boost..

as for adam..plenty of posts can be searched on rx7club forum as to how we feel about him..no need to bring it here .. in the end, you should make your own decision who you want to spend your money on..

[Boosted_TL]

Either I'm on crack or what? But alot of these posts are contradicting themselves?

My TD08 is to big to spool good power @ 14ish psi, but Chris's TD07 spools almost 400RWHP @ 16.5psi. Theres not a huge difference between the two turbos.

Ok lets talk some figures, you know what the car will have for mods, what do you think the turbo will output @ 25psi on pump. And can you even run those figures on pump?? No detonation problems?

Also Max, what size Injectors are you running and what exhaust?

I am new to all this rotary stuff and I appreciate your help Max and Chris....

Thanks

Also, where do you dyno tune your cars? Toma's?

[Maxt]

There is a difference between the two, it doesnt seem like much but there is... Yes Chris's is making nearly 400 at 16.5, but below that , and not much below that its pretty dead... Mine's even worse, below 17 psi, the power is not enough to overcome the lag in a head to head race with alot of other cars.You have to aim the turbo for the goals, my goal is around 550-600 on pump, but every system in my car was maxed out before my goal by the turbo. I use to run a T04e 60 trim smaller than Chris's and way smaller than my current turbo, I almost had 400 rwhp at 12 psi on a really crappy motor... The reason for that is, its peak airflow at highest efficieny was right at 12 psi, at the airflow needed for that hp.. Good numbers, better than what we have seen with larger turbos, but that turbo is done, it will never make more power than that if we turn up the boost past that point, I tried running it at higher levels, but the boost dropped off, so we stepped up to larger turbos, now we have to run more boost to make the same power, but we can keep running more boost past that point, and make more power overall, the larger turbo wont drop boost, but its peak efficiency is at pressure ratios alot higher than say the T04e, so to achieve the same mass flow rate, it takes a bit more boost since the density of the air is down on a larger turbo running in the surge area at lower boost levels.....Chris's turbo will max out somewhere around 490, mine around 600 once we get the boost turned up enough(25-27 psi)...
I know it only seems like we are talking a pound or 2, but thats really how narrow alot of these turbos are.. Even the stock turbo was like that, there was no reason running past 10 psi, it could run 15 but it made no more power than it did at 9 psi..
25 psi can be run on pump, its all in the engine build and the tuning, the motor has to be built for that purpose, the compression has to be dead even and good, the tune has to be dead on. But it takes so much more than just a big turbo to make power, just turning up the boost to 25 psi doesnt do much everything in the car has to be designed for those power levels..

[Go4Long]

Originally posted by Boosted_TL

And obviously you have a problem with Adam, I dont know him but plan on dropping thousands on his shop in a few months, care to PM me some reasons why I shouldnt? And possibly give me direction on where to head?

I would recomend searching on RX7club for threads about that particular shop. I will say that my buddy took his car(my old car) to him, and regrets it, just like I told him he would.

[rx7_turbo2]

Yup I suggest a search for RX-7 Specialties on www.rx7club.com/forum should find more than enough info on what people think of their work and Adam's character. Soloracer spend thousands at Adam's shop ask him what he thinks?

[Boosted_TL]

Thanks for the information