Sait CNT and NNT Programs

[mushi_mushi]

Hey, currently im a U of C CPSC student (finishing 2nd year)thinking of making the switch to sait. I went into the CPSC program thinking that a broad range of computer topics would be covered but it seems its mostly programing and theory which really isnt my liking.

I would like to know what sait students that are enrolled in the CNT/NNT programs (or those that have graduated) have to say about these programs.

All comments welcome and appreciated...

[crazyning]

If you're doing well, I'd say to stick it out and after you finish your degree, go on to get certifications and diplomas ontop of your degree.

I knew a couple guys from high school that each took the respective programs. One of them took Computer Engineering Technology, he does shipping and receiving at a warehouse. The other guy took Network Engineering Technology, he does tech support. These guys aren't necessarily the brightest in the field, but they did well in the courses.

If it were a decision I had to make, I would stick to University. If programming doesn't work out, change majors. You'll have credit for the courses you've already taken.

[forced14]

Network Engineering Technology IMO is pretty awesome. The equipment we use is pretty good for most of the internetworking, although in second year, the whole ISDN and Frame Relay section we just finished seemed kinda pointless because they are sorta burnt out technologies, depending on where you are from. The fact that it prepares us for alot of certifications is pretty cool, and I know of several people in class that have gotten their CCNA after first year, and have written the BSCI and the BCRAN exams already working towards their CCNP.

The wireless technology course kinda sucked because of the instructors, but the text book that prepares us for the CWNA was really well done.

For NNT, the fact that there are not that many labs in alberta to practice on is pretty neat, and we are supposed to have the second best lab in north america. You cant really get much of this hands-on experience else where unless you want to pay a crap load of money (besides tuition and all, but that gets you more than just experience in the labs).

I have also heard that IBM has hired several of the graduates from two years ago, right out of school they had job offers, so at least the demand is there.

And within the next two or three years they are coming out with a bachelors of science in internetworking, which will NOT be an applied degree. But that is still in the makings, so im going onto the applied degree next year.

Anyways any other questions, just let me know, if they are about NNT.

--forced

[Ripper]

Originally posted by crazyning
If you're doing well, I'd say to stick it out and after you finish your degree, go on to get certifications and diplomas ontop of your degree.

I knew a couple guys from high school that each took the respective programs. One of them took Computer Engineering Technology, he does shipping and receiving at a warehouse. The other guy took Network Engineering Technology, he does tech support. These guys aren't necessarily the brightest in the field, but they did well in the courses.

If it were a decision I had to make, I would stick to University. If programming doesn't work out, change majors. You'll have credit for the courses you've already taken.

I took CNT and most of the people wound up with shitty jobs because they expected to be handed their jobs on a platter. The people who went out and marketed themselves got some decent jobs.

CNT to me was pretty useless, and SAIT plans on restructuring the whole course.

Now I'm taking the applied degree majoring in network management, which has been alright. In hindsight I think NNT would have been a much better program to take, rather then CNT.

[forced14]

How is the applied degree going? Im starting that next year and im pretty excited about it.

--forced

[EG_Civic]

^ i got some books for first year.. pm me if interested

[Davetronz]

Meh, I took CNT and I really liked it. It was a bit "novice" for the skills I already had and was taking into the program.
I hated U of C though...

Out of SAIT I was stuck working in retail for a year while aggressively looking for "the right IT job". I have now landed said IT job and I love it...

Most of my classmates (90% of them) are working for Telus, Shaw or Bell helpless desks...

[mushi_mushi]

Originally posted by Davetronz
Meh, I took CNT and I really liked it. It was a bit "novice" for the skills I already had and was taking into the program.
I hated U of C though...

Out of SAIT I was stuck working in retail for a year while aggressively looking for "the right IT job". I have now landed said IT job and I love it...

Most of my classmates (90% of them) are working for Telus, Shaw or Bell helpless desks...

Thats exactly what I dont want to do...finish a technical school only to work in tech support...To me it sounds kinda pointless getting a diplima or degree if all that its going to do for you is land you in a tech support position...

Im still not sure which program to pursue weather CNT, CT, or NNT....I dont have much experience with networking but based on the comments on this board and the ones that ive came across in this thread im leaning towards NNT...

Thanks again guys for all your comments, its good to hear the oppinions of those who are doing/done these programs...

keep the comments comin..

[Davetronz]

Go with NNT... Thats my recommendation..
Get into network security or infrastructure and get a bunch of certs...
Much more demand for skilled networking techs than CNT grads...

[AllGoNoShow]

I'm also looking into NNT and would liek to hear what other people have to say about it and others if they have taken NNT or CNT or others of the same field.

From what I have gathered from close family and relatives is that I would be better off with NNT and working my way through that then anything else SAIT has to offer. I would never make it into University with the grades and attention I have so I figure something like SAIT is my only option besides a technical school down south, but thats out of my price range.

For something like NNT, what type of positions would I be looking into? Security? Maintence/Setup? Support?

[forced14]

For positions right out of NNT, alot of them are to start off as server admin positions. And eventually work up to configuring routers/switches and other devices. Even if you have alot of certifications, you still most likely start out pretty low on the list of responsibilities. Unless you have experience.

If you take the applied degree afterwards, I have heard that one guy went on to work for the UN.

Here is the power point presentation from the applied degree web site that has success stories

BAIST success stories (http://learnat.sait.ab.ca/ict/baist/PowerPoint/feb%202005%20success%20stories.ppt)

But that has stories from the four different tracks of the applied degree. NNT students can only get into the Network Management side though.

Also if you are interested in finding out some information or the class content on some of the classes for the NNT and CNT programs, find the course prefix line CMPS331 (Server administration) and find it on this site here :

SAIT courses (http://learnat.sait.ab.ca/ict/)

Anyways hope this all helps out abit, but you wont find all the courses on that link.

--forced

[AllGoNoShow]

thanks I'll be sure to watch it once I get home, can't at work.

So I'm also studying for my Network+, heard mixed that its worth it for some peopel and not for others, but I figure being 17, getting a cert or two, wouldn't hurt me at all.

Alongside Network+ what else coudl I look into Network/Admin wise to go with NNT?

[forced14]

There were several people that came in with a CCNA already, but they were on the previous version (which as far as i know was alot easier), so the could not skip that class. You could probably get your A+, and challenge the computer hardware class, its pretty easy and basic.

If you look up some of those courses on that link above, you could probably do an really good review on most of the classes because it has all the labs and the power points some of the instructors use in class.

--forced

[Toms-SC]

Be prepared to work your ass off second year. First year was fucking joke now second year is a kick in the ass. Doing 12+ hours of open lab a month to pass a test sucks. After the two year course you should be able to get the following certs (if thats your thing).

CCNA
CCNP
CWNA
Linux +
A +

Before I got into NNT I told myself its not what you know but who you know in the field. I have marketed myself well and have got a job coming out of SAIT @ the City. From there I hope to get a couple years of real life experence and wait till the 'Applied Degree' becomes a real Degree.

[Toms-SC]

Originally posted by AllGoNoShow


Alongside Network+ what else coudl I look into Network/Admin wise to go with NNT?

Network + overlaps pretty well with CCNA 1 and 2 so you'd be set for the first half of the year in one course. You should be able to do your A + and maybe even your Linux + studing from home.

[AllGoNoShow]

Yah I might do my Linux+ as well, been playing with it for 2 years now on and off, runnign FreeBSD server so maybe I will give that a shot too!

[Toms-SC]

Originally posted by mushi_mushi


Thats exactly what I dont want to do...finish a technical school only to work in tech support...To me it sounds kinda pointless getting a diplima or degree if all that its going to do for you is land you in a tech support position...


You can't expect to get a high position job right out of school. You'll have to consider that shitty help desk job as your foot in and to work up from there. :)

[Toms-SC]

Originally posted by AllGoNoShow
Yah I might do my Linux+ as well, been playing with it for 2 years now on and off, runnign FreeBSD server so maybe I will give that a shot too!

Cool, grab the books and your all good to go dude. NNT intake is low so I hope your doing OK in High School. Your really going to want Math 30 Pure as your going to have to do two math courses.

[AllGoNoShow]

SHIT, I need math? I guess there goes my plan of gradding in Jan.

Son of a bitch, not what i wanted ot hear hahaha. Maybe I will give the website a lookover when I get home and see what I need for NNT, I looked awhile ago but I forget.

[Toms-SC]

Originally posted by AllGoNoShow
SHIT, I need math? I guess there goes my plan of gradding in Jan.

Son of a bitch, not what i wanted ot hear hahaha. Maybe I will give the website a lookover when I get home and see what I need for NNT, I looked awhile ago but I forget.

You CAN get into the course with Math 30 Applied but its going to be harder for you. :(

[AllGoNoShow]

bahaha I just didn't take Math 30 this year, didnt need it for my HS Diploma so I said screw it I want out of school ASAP.

I'll probably take Applied online then and try and get in. I'm in no rush to get into SAIT as I wouldnt even mind taking a year off, so I'll jsut keep applying till I get in or upgrade my math and get in.

[forced14]

You only need applied math 30 i think, but your gonna have to work like crazy to get through the first year math course, unless you have Math 31, then its a joke.

And as for spending time in open lab, i think you were there way more than 12 hours a month Tom, probably 12 hours the weekend right before the practicals though lol.

--forced

[forced14]

Originally posted by AllGoNoShow
bahaha I just didn't take Math 30 this year, didnt need it for my HS Diploma so I said screw it I want out of school ASAP.

I'll probably take Applied online then and try and get in. I'm in no rush to get into SAIT as I wouldnt even mind taking a year off, so I'll jsut keep applying till I get in or upgrade my math and get in.

You could probably take a year off and work towards alot of the certifications

[Toms-SC]

Originally posted by forced14
You only need applied math 30 i think, but your gonna have to work like crazy to get through the first year math course, unless you have Math 31, then its a joke.

And as for spending time in open lab, i think you were there way more than 12 hours a month Tom, probably 12 hours the weekend right before the practicals though lol.

--forced

Fuck I hate our lives, open lab on Friday night for the lose.

[forced14]

We need to start going to loco lues more often after those lol

[Toms-SC]

Originally posted by forced14
We need to start going to loco lues more often after those lol

Moving onto rez this coming Friday. Prepare for mass destruction

[HoisinSauce]

i find CNT really useless because after 1st sem about 90% of my testes from 2nd to 4th sem was open book. that causes serious lack of motivation to study because why study when it's open book and you can use your laptop with google.ca

but amazingly even with open book testes i've seen a lot of my classmate fail.

[forced14]

I have heard some bad things about CNT. They bring it up to be such a mixture of computer related stuff, but I have heard its mostly electronics and abit of programming. And then when it comes to the CNT's wanting to get into the Network Management side of the Applied degree, they have to take alot of basic operating system courses and server courses that we end up getting in first year NNT.

NNT ends up getting extra courses in the Applied Degree that relate to Windows security, UNIX Security, and Perimeter Security.

--forced

[HoisinSauce]

Originally posted by forced14
I have heard some bad things about CNT. They bring it up to be such a mixture of computer related stuff, but I have heard its mostly electronics and abit of programming. And then when it comes to the CNT's wanting to get into the Network Management side of the Applied degree, they have to take alot of basic operating system courses and server courses that we end up getting in first year NNT.

NNT ends up getting extra courses in the Applied Degree that relate to Windows security, UNIX Security, and Perimeter Security.

--forced

YUP thats why i didnt take the applied degree. Some of my friends from CNT are taking the applied program and they are getting killed because CNT didn't cover enough of the basic networking knowledge they required. (and there aren't many open book testes :rofl: :rofl: )

[FatboyTheHungry]

Stick it out at the U. You will be considered first before other applicants without degrees. The interview is all up to you though.

I finished my CPSC degree at the U in the 90's. Times have changed, but I still don't see degree holders on help desks. And working after the degree is not necessarily development. It is whatever you want it to be. :thumbsup:

[mushi_mushi]

Originally posted by FatboyTheHungry
Stick it out at the U. You will be considered first before other applicants without degrees. The interview is all up to you though.

I finished my CPSC degree at the U in the 90's. Times have changed, but I still don't see degree holders on help desks. And working after the degree is not necessarily development. It is whatever you want it to be. :thumbsup:

Its just my marks are taking a beating right now. I do decent on assignments for the most part but then you write the midterm or final and the next thing that comes to mind is WTF, we didnt really cover this...im just tired of puting in a decent effort and getting shafted...

At this point im not sure if I have what it takes to finish the degree. There are decent profs at the u of c but alot of them as mentioned are there for research, and it really blows having to learn some of this stuff on your own...

ive ended up dropping/repeating alot of these courses (ie, CPSC 231, I had Duer :), CPSC 265, MATH 271) and these are just first year courses, im halfway through the second year and at this point my future looks uncertain. I think sait is in my near future.

[EG_Civic]

Originally posted by Toms-SC


Moving onto rez this coming Friday. Prepare for mass destruction

fire alarms.. lmao

[FatboyTheHungry]

Originally posted by mushi_mushi


Its just my marks are taking a beating right now. I do decent on assignments for the most part but then you write the midterm or final and the next thing that comes to mind is WTF, we didnt really cover this...im just tired of puting in a decent effort and getting shafted...

At this point im not sure if I have what it takes to finish the degree. There are decent profs at the u of c but alot of them as mentioned are there for research, and it really blows having to learn some of this stuff on your own...

ive ended up dropping/repeating alot of these courses (ie, CPSC 231, I had Duer :), CPSC 265, MATH 271) and these are just first year courses, im halfway through the second year and at this point my future looks uncertain. I think sait is in my near future.

Everyone takes a beating in the first 2 years. You should find a good study group, and get a tutor if necessary. When I was in school, I got in with a group of guys to get a tutor for the more difficult courses (like 413 w/Eberly).

Just don't get discouraged. I know it is hard to keep with it when you get dropped into a meat grinder every exam, but that's why the degree is so much more valued.

Just survive. After you are done, everything is easy.

[forced14]

IMO a degree is not as valued as experience for the computer industry. Perhaps in some instances the degree can be more suitable for the job, but in alot of instances, places like SAIT give you alot more hands on experience than ever would have been offered at a university.

--forced

[USHER]

with all the bad stuff ive been hearing about CNT i planning on switching classes. im currently enrolled in CNT but plan on taking the applied degree. is it wise to just switch into NNT now? today was the first day of classes, so instead of taking the course should i try to get into the NNT course as soon as possible? does anyone know how i get about doing this?


thanks

[forced14]

You wont be able to get in to NNT until next september, they only start the course in septembers because they only allow 64 people a year. So maybe finish off this semester, and that might cover a course or two of the NNT side. There was one guy who took the first year of CNT, and then switched over to NNT, and he did not have to take the Hardware course.

Or see what other courses you can take by distance learning or something.

--forced

[mushi_mushi]

Originally posted by forced14
You wont be able to get in to NNT until next september, they only start the course in septembers because they only allow 64 people a year. So maybe finish off this semester, and that might cover a course or two of the NNT side. There was one guy who took the first year of CNT, and then switched over to NNT, and he did not have to take the Hardware course.

Or see what other courses you can take by distance learning or something.

--forced

Wow only 64 a year for NNT? I thought the numbers would be much higher then that, is there any reason they are so low? From the admission requirments it doesn't look like they are asking for alot.

[forced14]

They dont ask for alot, thats why its pretty competetive to get in i think. They break the course up from there to 32 people per theory class. You have the same people in your class for all theory classes, and out of those 32, they split that up into 16 for the lab classes. It works out really good because then you get to know your instructors alot better, and the chances of everyone showing up for a lab class is pretty slim, so usually you have less than 16.

--forced

[mushi_mushi]

Originally posted by forced14
They dont ask for alot, thats why its pretty competetive to get in i think. They break the course up from there to 32 people per theory class. You have the same people in your class for all theory classes, and out of those 32, they split that up into 16 for the lab classes. It works out really good because then you get to know your instructors alot better, and the chances of everyone showing up for a lab class is pretty slim, so usually you have less than 16.

--forced

Im still not sure how it is competitive to get in when the requirements are so low. But from what you have told me 32 people per class is a big change (for me anyways) from the UofC lecture style classes, and a welcome change at that. I missed the deadline application for january, because im still registered as a student at the UofC, but I think ive had about enough of computer science, and will probably make the switch in september.

A bit off topic but at the end of the day I want a diploma/degree that is intresting to learn, something that can be an asset in the real world, giving you experience and a chance to get your foot through the door. Based on some of the comments above about CNT, it seems like its not a very valuable diploma.

Ive talked to some other people who have completed the NNT program at sait and they seemed happy with the way the program was structured. Most of the people that ive talked to stated that it is good to have serveral certificates like CCNA, network+ or what have you for landing a decent job.

[forced14]

Its just competetive because there are only 64 people allowed in, and the requirements are low, so it makes it more available to alot more people. I guess if you already have a bit of schooling, or higher marks from high school, it should not be a problem.

--forced

[mushi_mushi]

Thanks forced for all your replys...:) you have answered alot of my questions. im sure ill have a couple more pretty soon..

[forced14]

No problemo, just keep asking away, im sure to answer

--forced

[USHER]

thanks you've been very helpful

[USHER]

sorry i actualy have another question? if i stay in for this semester i only have one class from CNT that i can use for NNT, could i just drop 2 of my classes to lessen the load of work and save some money?

i plan on taking the Applied degree so is this the course i should take for sure? or should i stay in the CNT path, i dont want to end up having to work extra hard when i could have taking the NNT course and end up with the same degree

thanks in advance for all your help forced

[forced14]

Yeah you could drop classes that wont apply to NNT. I think you have until the mid terms to drop them so that they wont hurt you on your transcripts, but im not sure when you have to drop classes in order to get some money back for them, probably by the end of the week or something soon like that. :(

--forced

[bulaian]

I just finished NNT in April, if you have any more questions that haven't been answerred yet.

With SAIT's policy you don't have very much time at all to drop the courses and try to get your money back, you should go as soon as possible.

[Azn_Boy88888888]

The CNT (Computer Engineering Technology) and NNT (Network Engineering Technology) programs will subject to change in Fall 2007.

Proposed changes, when approved by the Alberta Government will be Information Systems Technology Diploma with majors of Computer Systems Technology or Network Systems Technology.

Additional information can be provided at the SAIT Polytechnic website.