best weight loss supplement/pill?!

[Grip172]

alright so i'll be hitting the gym regularly soon and I'll be looking to lose some of my damn belly flab and strenghten my pecks...so i was wondering what you guys have tried and would recommmend? i know there are SO many options and choices out there and tons that don't work

so i don't want to end up spending $~100 and not getting results~

[handsomebassman]

manboobliness :rofl:

You could always try ephedrine. It boosts your metabolism and gets your heart going. I know long term it isnt great for you, but it shouldnt be too bad short term. Ill warn you though, its addictive.

[lastprodigy]

^ addictive? Hah, you must have zero will power, as with most things that are "addictive" Ephedrine does work, just make sure you go hard on the cardio everyday!

[ecstasy_civic]

Originally posted by lastprodigy
^ addictive? Hah, you must have zero will power, as with most things that are "addictive" Ephedrine does work, just make sure you go hard on the cardio everyday!
:werd:
Its only addicting if you let it.
Ive never had a problem with it and ive been on and off it for 4-5yrs, more off than on;)

[5hift]

Originally posted by Grip172
alright so i'll be hitting the gym regularly soon and I'll be looking to lose some of my damn belly flab and strenghten my pecks...so i was wondering what you guys have tried and would recommmend? i know there are SO many options and choices out there and tons that don't work

so i don't want to end up spending $~100 and not getting results~

If you want to lose belly flab/moobs change ur diet first and get on a decent workout routine. Chances are you'll get results without having to overpay for something you dont really need.

[Grip172]

my diet has changed completley

i don't eat chocolate bars or drink pop > unless its a mixed drink haha

but i am eating really good. i cannot seem to gain weight or lose weight. my weight pretty much stays the same. i mean i COULD gain weight if i wanted but i don't. I just want to tone up and lose the flab around my gut :thumbsdow

[1-Bar]

^how long have you been on this program for?? Results don't happen overnight...rather a slow progression.....Just because you don't gain/lose weight doesn't mean your body is not changing ie. building LBM, losing excess fat....

[pinoyhero]

Cardio and a better diet, will yeild the results you're after.

[Tyler883]

Originally posted by Grip172

so i don't want to end up spending $~100 and not getting results~

There's a very good chance that is what will happen to you.

My advice: Try this for 10 days ==> pay yourself $10 per day for everyday that your diet is good, and you deliberately stay active enough to ensure a calorie deficet at the end of the day.

Follow my advice, and I'll bet you will see better results than anything you find in a suppliment bottle.

[5hift]

Originally posted by Tyler883


There's a very good chance that is what will happen to you.

My advice: Try this for 10 days ==> pay yourself $10 per day for everyday that your diet is good, and you deliberately stay active enough to ensure a calorie deficet at the end of the day.

Follow my advice, and I'll bet you will see better results than anything you find in a suppliment bottle.

Listen to this guy he knows his shit
Stop looking for the easy way out in pill form.

[00CivicSi]

Supplements arne't bad to use. They help you achieve the goals your aiming for quicker. It's like adding a better exhaust or boost to your car. Just make sure you know how to take it. Everyone's saying ephedrine here which is a good choice but make sure you know how ta take it and when and how to get of it, or you'll fry yer adrenal glands and get even fatter. There's alot of dieting supplements out there and lots do work. Just make sure your not one of those ass's that take a diet supplement and go home sit in front of a couch and eat a big mac and says it doesn't work.

[sputnik]

Pills are a waste of time and money. Why not try the "Eat Less Food" method. You will lose weight and SAVE money!

[calgarygts]

If pills are a waste of money then why do all the serious lifters in this forum take so many? The 'diet pills', or some of them, will do what they were made for. They'll help you lose fat faster than you could without them. Why not give the guy an answer? He already said his diet has changed, maybe he just want to supplement what he's already doing to cut down.
I don't know which ones are good and which ones aren't, but I'm sure someone here does.
Tyler883, why don't you let him know which ones you think are best? If he combined your idea along with some fat burners his results would be better.

[handsomebassman]

Originally posted by ecstasy_civic

:werd:
Its only addicting if you let it.
Ive never had a problem with it and ive been on and off it for 4-5yrs, more off than on;)

By addictive, i meant that i was a bit different on and off of it. My girlfriend said when i stopped taking it, i was really really bitchy for a 4-5 days.

[nj2Type-S]

i used SAN TIGHT and it worked really well for me. i'd recommend it if you're looking at weight loss pills.

[00CivicSi]

It's hard to really determine what pill will be right for him without knowing his age, size, his diet, any heart conditions etc. Lipo 6 is pretty good, Tights good if ya can find it and the old redline. I would normally take 24 mg of ephedrine , 200 mg caffine and a baby aspirn once upon waking and once more 5 hours later but that might be to strong or extreme, again no clue what his body comp is. :dunno:

[Civic_Stylez403]

Apply for the "Biggest Loser" :clap:

[EG_Civic]

Originally posted by nj2Type-S
i used SAN TIGHT and it worked really well for me. i'd recommend it if you're looking at weight loss pills.

:thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

[Lex350]

I amazes me how people will look to the bottle for results. They are banning cold/sinus remedies that have ephedrine in it already.

Caffeine and ephedrine are not the way to go. Sure you will lose weight but it isn't sustainable because you are doing this artificially. When you stop the weight will come back because your metabolism will slow down.

Just another not, when you are pumping yourself up with these drugs (because that's what they are) you increase the risk of a heart attack greatly. It doesn’t matter if you are young or not.

To go this route only shows a lack of character. My advice to you would be to keep up the workouts but vary the type of work out you are doing....i.e. less gym more sports.

You body will react much better to a variety of workout rather than the same routine over and over.

[Lex350]

I forgot, other pills make you lose more water which also isn't a good thing because often the body mistakes thrist for hunger and you end up eating more.

[ecstasy_civic]

Originally posted by rotten42
I amazes me how people will look to the bottle for results. They are banning cold/sinus remedies that have ephedrine in it already.

Caffeine and ephedrine are not the way to go. Sure you will lose weight but it isn't sustainable because you are doing this artificially. When you stop the weight will come back because your metabolism will slow down.

Just another not, when you are pumping yourself up with these drugs (because that's what they are) you increase the risk of a heart attack greatly. It doesn’t matter if you are young or not.

To go this route only shows a lack of character. My advice to you would be to keep up the workouts but vary the type of work out you are doing....i.e. less gym more sports.

You body will react much better to a variety of workout rather than the same routine over and over.


Some of us are athletes who are in all around terrific shape, maybe in my sport more than others, when someone says you need to lose 10-15lbs in a matter of days/weeks you do what you have to do.

I dont worry about myself when taking certain things because I know my body can handle it, ive been training hard for the last 4-5yrs and have yo yo'd in weight to what I consider a perfect weight right now. Which is where I intend to stay.

Maintaining for alot of people is easy once you've reached your goal, an ECA stack will help you get to that point faster.

[00CivicSi]

But now your just generalizing the wieght loss supplements now. Sure alot of people use different diet supplements to lose weight, but look at all the people that use other things from your doctor to help them for other thing being anti depressants, cold medications, Viagra on and on. Prescription medications or over the counter stuff does the same doesn't it, gives you an answer and them some side effects?? Now the fact that it's dangerous and should be ban. Sure it can be dangerous if you used it wrong and could possibly kill and give you a heart attack. Now banning it for the usage of a diet supplement is fucking BS. Smoking and drinking kills more people every single day then ephedrine but they can't be banned because they get taxed and they make our great government money. How bout crap like Mcdonalds and bad proccessed man made foods??? They are the reason why people turn to diet pills, but garbage foods can't be removed because they pump the economy fully of money and jobs. I don't advocate people to diet supplements all the time. There are times when diet sups can get you going or break your plateau... Sorry for killing the thread :cry:

[xtreme prelude]

liposuction and pec implants

[Grip172]

wow..quite a debate i fired up here haha

anyways, well yeah i'm not going to be one of those people that pops a bunch of bills and doesn't do anything to flow with them. I will be workign out and doing cardio 3-4+ a week. I just want something that can give me that extra edge or push, if you will.

I do NOT want to solely base my weight loss on pills at all..

just so you know i'm 21, 5'10.5" tall, and the 'digital scale' just told me i'm 156lbs. WHICH doesn't sound like very much at all for my stats, but i want to ge trid of my belly flab and manboobliness.

[ecstasy_civic]

Originally posted by Grip172
wow..quite a debate i fired up here haha

anyways, well yeah i'm not going to be one of those people that pops a bunch of bills and doesn't do anything to flow with them. I will be workign out and doing cardio 3-4+ a week. I just want something that can give me that extra edge or push, if you will.

I do NOT want to solely base my weight loss on pills at all..

just so you know i'm 21, 5'10.5" tall, and the 'digital scale' just told me i'm 156lbs. WHICH doesn't sound like very much at all for my stats, but i want to ge trid of my belly flab and manboobliness.

:eek:

Dude, you dont need to lose any weight LOL

Just workout and eat properly. Dont take a thing.

[steelo]

Originally posted by rotten42
To go this route only shows a lack of character. My advice to you would be to keep up the workouts but vary the type of work out you are doing....i.e. less gym more sports.


Stick to threads you don't look so foolish commenting in. :thumbsup:

[Lex350]

Originally posted by ecstasy_civic



Some of us are athletes who are in all around terrific shape, maybe in my sport more than others, when someone says you need to lose 10-15lbs in a matter of days/weeks you do what you have to do.

I dont worry about myself when taking certain things because I know my body can handle it, ive been training hard for the last 4-5yrs and have yo yo'd in weight to what I consider a perfect weight right now. Which is where I intend to stay.

Maintaining for alot of people is easy once you've reached your goal, an ECA stack will help you get to that point faster.


See there is where you are wrong. It has more to do with genetics and and your suseptibility to a heart condition. There are any examples over the years of athletes in top physical shape you die of a heart attack that comes as a total shock to all people around them. Taking the pills increases that risk that you might not know you have.

the perfect weight isn't the big factor here. When you are younger you tend to have a unrealistic view of invulnerability. It shows in how people party, drive and the short cuts people take to get results.

When I was younger my best friend's brother died at 20 years old. He had won a couple of body building contests. He got cancer when he was 19. It has nothing to do with the pills per say but demonstrates that even though we think we know our bodies we only control a portion of what happens to them

My other other point is about character. If you take short-cuts to get to your physical goals where else in life do you take short cuts? What does that say about you? When the time comes to raise a family, will you take short-cuts there too?

Who do you want to be when you grow up? (that's a rhetorical question not a dig)

[Lex350]

Originally posted by steelo


Stick to threads you don't look so foolish commenting in. :thumbsup:

Perhaps you might offer up some wisdom of your own instead of making a shit comment like that. Then again that might require you to string a sentence or two together. Atleast we know you can probably count to 10 three times. tool!

[ecstasy_civic]

Originally posted by rotten42



See there is where you are wrong. It has more to do with genetics and and your suseptibility to a heart condition. There are any examples over the years of athletes in top physical shape you die of a heart attack that comes as a total shock to all people around them. Taking the pills increases that risk that you might not know you have.

the perfect weight isn't the big factor here. When you are younger you tend to have a unrealistic view of invulnerability. It shows in how people party, drive and the short cuts people take to get results.

When I was younger my best friend's brother died at 20 years old. He had won a couple of body building contests. He got cancer when he was 19. It has nothing to do with the pills per say but demonstrates that even though we think we know our bodies we only control a portion of what happens to them

My other other point is about character. If you take short-cuts to get to your physical goals where else in life do you take short cuts? What does that say about you? When the time comes to raise a family, will you take short-cuts there too?

Who do you want to be when you grow up? (that's a rhetorical question not a dig)


I think you need to watch what your saying when you start insulting peoples character.

[R!zz0]

I don't believe in diet pills, if pills really worked like they say then no one would be overweight in this world. Eating right and regular excersize is the best for losing and toning your body.

[steelo]

Originally posted by rotten42


Perhaps you might offer up some wisdom of your own instead of making a shit comment like that. Then again that might require you to string a sentence or two together. Atleast we know you can probably count to 10 three times. tool!

Hey man, I'm not the one that climbed up on my high horse to start preaching about character - you are - and you sound like a fucking goof doing it. Regarding, stringing a sentence or two together well lets just suffice it to say that roaches like you aren't worth my ball sweat much less my philosophical meanderings on how you seem to be stuck in the anal stage of development.

[steelo]

Oh and by the way ECA three times a day, with diet high in protein, and cardio exercise 5 days a week will work. Period.

So now you know.

[ecstasy_civic]

Originally posted by steelo
Oh and by the way ECA three times a day, with diet high in protein, and cardio exercise 5 days a week will work. Period.

So now you know.

:werd:

[Lex350]

Maybe you are misunderstanding me...I'm not insulting you. This isn't aimed at anyone in particular. No insult is intended rather just asking you to evaluate what is important to you I am just asking the question about character. I think it's a valid thing to bring up in this discussion.

I think there is great value in the path people choose in life and it is reflected in the actions we take to attain our goals.


I think this issue is a real barometer of what afflicts society on a whole today; this instant gratification obsession. You see it with body image, get rich quick scenarios (BRE-X is a classic), entertainment and many other areas. People just want results and they want it quick.

If you just want to talk about the pills and not the issues around taking them...fine, I'll bow out of the discussion.

[steelo]

Originally posted by ecstasy_civic



I think you need to watch what your saying when you start insulting peoples character.

Or get really good at getting/dodging slaps.

[Si_FlyGuy]

Originally posted by ecstasy_civic



I think you need to watch what your saying when you start insulting peoples character.

:werd: Whether someone decides to take supplements or not is a poor basis for judging someone's character. It's his body and he can do whatever the hell he wants to it.

However, I think that Grip172 needs to have reasonable expectations of yourself. There's no sense putting too much stuff in yourself if you haven't exhausted other possibilities, or if you're not a competitive athlete. Just my views though.:dunno:

[steelo]

Originally posted by Si_FlyGuy


:werd: Whether someone decides to take supplements or not is a poor basis for judging someone's character. It's his body and he can do whatever the hell he wants to it.

However, I think that Grip172 needs to have reasonable expectations of yourself. There's no sense putting too much stuff in yourself if you haven't exhausted other possibilities, or if you're not a competitive athlete. Just my views though.:dunno:

See, now that's a reasonable comment.

[Lex350]

Originally posted by steelo
Oh and by the way ECA three times a day, with diet high in protein, and cardio exercise 5 days a week will work. Period.

So now you know.

I didn't say they wouldn't work. My point was about doing cross-training. What is the hardest part of working out for most people? Staying motivated.

Cross-training helps you stay motivated. There is a reason why pro-athletes do this.

So what comes after ephedrine? At some point your body is going to adjust to it.

[ecstasy_civic]

Originally posted by rotten42


I didn't say they wouldn't work. My point was about doing cross-training. What is the hardest part of working out for most people? Staying motivated.

Cross-training helps you stay motivated. There is a reason why pro-athletes do this.

So what comes after ephedrine? At some point your body is going to adjust to it.

Adrenalin shots;) lol

[00CivicSi]

Originally posted by R!zz0
I don't believe in diet pills, if pills really worked like they say then no one would be overweight in this world. Eating right and regular excersize is the best for losing and toning your body.

Diet pills work along with excersize and eating right. They help you have an opurtunity to target fat loss in certain area's, help burn more calorie's then you normally burn when working out and eating right. They obviously won't werk if you don't change your life style. No one said they where a mircle and for those who think taking a diet pill is a short cut, How is it a short cut? By taking a supplement to achive your goals or helping you make life a lil easier is taking a short cut?? I hope you don't drive and walk, or use a remote control, take a cold medicine, a tylenol, eat fast food

[Si_FlyGuy]

Originally posted by rotten42


I didn't say they wouldn't work. My point was about doing cross-training. What is the hardest part of working out for most people? Staying motivated.

Cross-training helps you stay motivated. There is a reason why pro-athletes do this.

So what comes after ephedrine? At some point your body is going to adjust to it.

I think you extrapolate too much. How can you assume so many things out of a simple question by someone? If addiction is a certainty, I'm sure that we would all evolve into crackheads someday.

[Lex350]

Originally posted by Si_FlyGuy


:werd: Whether someone decides to take supplements or not is a poor basis for judging someone's character. It's his body and he can do whatever the hell he wants to it.

However, I think that Grip172 needs to have reasonable expectations of yourself. There's no sense putting too much stuff in yourself if you haven't exhausted other possibilities, or if you're not a competitive athlete. Just my views though.:dunno:


I not saying it is the sole basis for judging one's character. Its a personal decision. They can do what the hell they want and my opinion can mean shit to them.

My point being that most people don't exhaust all the other possiblilities and go straight for the easy fork in the road....and my experience tells me that this approach is a constant in many people's lives.


You guys get really bent out of shape in a hurry over a moraility question.:dunno:

[ecstasy_civic]

Originally posted by 00CivicSi


Diet pills work along with excersize and eating right. They help you have an opurtunity to target fat loss in certain area's, help burn more calorie's then you normally burn when working out and eating right. They obviously won't werk if you don't change your life style. No one said they where a mircle and for those who think taking a diet pill is a short cut, How is it a short cut? By taking a supplement to achive your goals or helping you make life a lil easier is taking a short cut?? I hope you don't drive and walk, or use a remote control, take a cold medicine, a tylenol, eat fast food

The thing is though, they dont pin point certain areas to lose weight. It all comes down to diet, training intensity and your ability to stick to your program/goal.

[00CivicSi]

Originally posted by ecstasy_civic


The thing is though, they dont pin point certain areas to lose weight. It all comes down to diet, training intensity and your ability to stick to your program/goal.

yeah and yer right but thier are stuff out there that helps target area,s like CLA for stomach etc. I can't keep up lol I posted and all of a sudden there was like 6 post after mine!!

[Lex350]

Originally posted by Si_FlyGuy


I think you extrapolate too much. How can you assume so many things out of a simple question by someone? If addiction is a certainty, I'm sure that we would all evolve into crackheads someday.


I didn't think I was talking about addiction. That's another issue all together. Am I extrapolating too much? ....could be. It's a discussion

[ecstasy_civic]

Originally posted by rotten42



I not saying it is the sole basis for judging one's character. Its a personal decision. They can do what the hell they want and my opinion can mean shit to them.

My point being that most people don't exhaust all the other possiblilities and go straight for the easy fork in the road....and my experience tells me that this approach is a constant in many people's lives.


You guys get really bent out of shape in a hurry over a moraility question.:dunno:


The way you come across in your posts, your almost preaching, and to alot of guys who use supplements for fitness, look, performance, anything, your basically challenging them.

And I dont appreciate ANYONE challenging my morality, regardless who you are.

[Lex350]

Originally posted by 00CivicSi


yeah and yer right but thier are stuff out there that helps target area,s like CLA for stomach etc. I can't keep up lol I posted and all of a sudden there was like 6 post after mine!!


oooh, I'd like to see the science behind that claim:nut:

[steelo]

Originally posted by rotten42


I didn't say they wouldn't work. My point was about doing cross-training. What is the hardest part of working out for most people? Staying motivated.


The hardest part for most people? Being lazy. Not knowing how to train properly. Using the wrong information. Getting crappy advice on internet forums.


Originally posted by rotten42

Cross-training helps you stay motivated. There is a reason why pro-athletes do this.

But it isn't the most efficient way to get lean.


Originally posted by rotten42

So what comes after ephedrine? At some point your body is going to adjust to it.

There are methods of periodization for many things. Ephedrine is no different. Will you adjust? Perhaps. That doesn't mean you will go back to being fat.

[ecstasy_civic]

Originally posted by rotten42



oooh, I'd like to see the science behind that claim:nut:

I would too actually haha

[Si_FlyGuy]

Originally posted by ecstasy_civic



The way you come across in your posts, your almost preaching, and to alot of guys who use supplements for fitness, look, performance, anything, your basically challenging them.

And I dont appreciate ANYONE challenging my morality, regardless who you are.

Please don't RNC me.:rofl:

[ecstasy_civic]

Originally posted by Si_FlyGuy


Please don't RNC me.:rofl:
:poosie: :angel:

[Lex350]

Originally posted by ecstasy_civic



The way you come across in your posts, your almost preaching, and to alot of guys who use supplements for fitness, look, performance, anything, your basically challenging them.

And I dont appreciate ANYONE challenging my morality, regardless who you are.

No I'm not preaching. I'm far from perfect. It's hard to convey tonality over the internet.

Yes I'm challenging your morality and tough shit if you don't like it.
This world would be a better place if more people challenged people's morality and there reasons why they support them.

Grow up....that's life:rolleyes:

[Lex350]

Originally posted by steelo


The hardest part for most people? Being lazy. Not knowing how to train properly. Using the wrong information. Getting crappy advice on internet forums.



But it isn't the most efficient way to get lean.



There are methods of periodization for many things. Ephedrine is no different. Will you adjust? Perhaps. That doesn't mean you will go back to being fat.



1) I agree with your first quote completely (you forgot recovery)

2) efficient isn't always best otherwise we would all be driving Smart cars.

3) I didn't mean to infer that you would get fat only go to the new quick fix.

[steelo]

Originally posted by rotten42

2) efficient isn't always best otherwise we would all be driving Smart cars.


It isn't the most effective either.

[ecstasy_civic]

Originally posted by rotten42


No I'm not preaching. I'm far from perfect. It's hard to convey tonality over the internet.

Yes I'm challenging your morality and tough shit if you don't like it.
This world would be a better place if more people challenged people's morality and there reasons why they support them.

Grow up....that's life:rolleyes:

LOL

SO because I throw back a couple of pills to help increase the intensity of my training, I become a bad person who takes short cuts in life?
Give your head a shake.
If you came to the gym with me and called my workout a short cut, i'd slap you fuckin silly.
Its all about personal motivation and how bad you want something. I use the ECA for a few reasons, and I will continue to use it because I can:poosie:
As far as challenging peoples morality, I think you need to grow up and stop trying to cast a stereotype on people.

[Lex350]

Originally posted by ecstasy_civic


LOL

SO because I throw back a couple of pills to help increase the intensity of my training, I become a bad person who takes short cuts in life?
Give your head a shake.
If you came to the gym with me and called my workout a short cut, i'd slap you fuckin silly.
Its all about personal motivation and how bad you want something. I use the ECA for a few reasons, and I will continue to use it because I can:poosie:
As far as challenging peoples morality, I think you need to grow up and stop trying to cast a stereotype on people.


here's a crying towel for you.


Slap me silly....that's typical. You sure get bent out of shape over a simple discussion of how people accomplsh their goals. I never called you an axe-murderer, its just that some people work hard for their results and some people cheat their way through life. My opinion, get over it....or better yet. "slap me silly".

[steelo]

Actually, the discussion for the record is:

"best weight loss supplement/pill?!"

Your opinion is wrong. :) Please leave.

[Lex350]

I think your opinion is wrong and terribly un-informed....so I'll stay for a while longer.

[Si_FlyGuy]

I'm just here to see a Flying Armbar...and recommend Ex-lax as the best weight loss supplement.:thumbsup:

[ecstasy_civic]

Cheat my way through life:rofl:

Im not getting bent, this is how I discuss:)

So,
You assume because I take an ECA stack that I dont work hard, do you know what it is? have you ever taken it? Do you know what it takes to achieve my goals?

NO.

So, until you understand, please stop yapping, everyones heard your opinion already.

I was waiting for you to 'bow out' on the last page.


As far as continuing in your :hijack:

Im only going to respond to posts regarding the original topic, not your views on morality haha

[steelo]

Well, if you're going to stick around could explain how exactly my opinion is uninformed? Please try to be as succinct as possible after all you do tend to ramble off on wild tangents with baseless claims of knowledge. I really wouldn't want to come across as being ignorant. ;)

[Lex350]

I can see your approach to being questioned. Please resume your infomercial lifestyle:drama:

[steelo]

A witty riposte. Neat.

[Lex350]

Originally posted by steelo
Well, if you're going to stick around could explain how exactly my opinion is uninformed? Please try to be as succinct as possible after all you do tend to ramble off on wild tangents with baseless claims of knowledge. I really wouldn't want to come across as being ignorant. ;)


I wouldn't call them wild tangents. But in particular would you like me to back up?

[steelo]

What I would like, ok here it is, so please pay attention, is for you to tell me how my opinion is:


Originally posted by rotten42
terribly un-informed....

Can you handle that? The easiest way for you to do this is to:

1) Tell me what you percieve my opinion to be.

2) Break it down in point form and provide a factual account of how it's wrong.

Thanks.

[ecstasy_civic]

Originally posted by steelo
What I would like, ok here it is, so please pay attention, is for you to tell me how my opinion is:



Can you handle that? The easiest way for you to do this is to:

1) Tell me what you percieve my opinion to be.

2) Break it down in point form and provide a factual account of how it's wrong.

Thanks.


OK, I said no more posting lol but thats great:clap:

[Si_FlyGuy]

Originally posted by rotten42
I can see your approach to being questioned. Please resume your infomercial lifestyle:drama:

Those monkeys are SO staged.:nut: :rofl:

[Lex350]

Originally posted by steelo
What I would like, ok here it is, so please pay attention, is for you to tell me how my opinion is:



Can you handle that? The easiest way for you to do this is to:

1) Tell me what you perceive my opinion to be.

2) Break it down in point form and provide a factual account of how it's wrong.

Thanks.


1) I perceive your opinion to be:

a) I am a dip-shit because I am questioning people's morality judgment when they use pills to get their physical results. Sorry let me clarify..."dip-shit" probably isn't a strong enough term but I don't want to use your "ball sweat" comment....I have doubts about the validity of that too.:D

b) You think using these ephedrine laces pills is a no-nonsense, safe approach to achieving you results.

c) You don't think anybody has a right to question the issue of using these in general and that just because you didn't ask for it, I still don't have the right to bring it up.



My answers:

a) A question of morality (character - really what ever you want to call it) isn’t a scientific question. It doesn't need a study to back it up. It is a question of one’s values. I question a person’s choice to use a potentially harmful drug to obtain a superficial goal....because if you are telling me its to improve your health...IT ISN'T.

B) There is so much info on this but here's a good one to start. It's not a difficult read:

The Dangers of Ephedra

A study conducted for the U.S. Food and Drug Administration to assess the safety of popular dietary supplements containing ephedra concludes that these products can pose severe health risks, with sometimes fatal consequences, prompting an urgent need to identify those at greatest risk and establish safe doses. Scientists at the University of California, San Francisco who conducted the study also say ephedra-containing products should be more uniformly and explicitly labeled.

The analysis appeared in the Dec. 21, 2000 issue of The New England Journal of Medicine. It has been posted on the journal's web site due to its health implications. The paper draws on a study the UCSF team prepared for the FDA, assessing 140 reports the agency received on adverse effects from supplements containing ephedra. The full report was published in the Federal Register earlier this year.

Of the 140 reports the FDA received, researchers found that just under a third (31 percent), or 43 of the people "definitely" or "probably" suffered an adverse effect from ephedrine in a dietary supplement. Of these 43, three died, seven suffered permanent injury and four more required on-going medical treatment, the report said.

Serious effects included five cardiac arrests - two fatal and three resulting in permanent brain damage and disability; four strokes; and 10 cases of hypertension.

When a second group was included in the analysis - those whose physical symptoms were "possibly" related to ephedrine products - the number of deaths rose to 10 out of 87 people, and permanent disabilities rose to 13 out of the 87.

Ephedrine-containing supplements are used by about 12 million people in the United States, with some 3 billion "servings" sold last year, according to industry statistics. They are stimulants, used for short-term energy boosts to enhance athletic performance and endurance, to help people exercise longer, feel more alert and to dampen appetite. Studies indicate that weight loss with the aid of such products is only temporary. In addition, as people continue to take ephedrine-containing supplements, the body becomes tolerant, and they must take more to get the same effect.

The researchers called for large-scale, controlled studies to quantify the dangers of these products and to identify who is vulnerable to the serious side effects - steps needed to determine a maximum daily safe dose.

The UCSF scientists also urged the FDA to move quickly to impose more uniform, mandatory labeling of contents and quantities. In addition, they said the claimed benefits of these products are questionable and unproven compared with potentially severe risks.

"When I talk to people about taking products containing ephedra to lose a few pounds, I tell them that the products have caused strokes and other severe side effects, and ask them to consider if that is an acceptable risk," said Dr. Christine Haller, lead author of the paper and a post-doctoral researcher in the lab of senior author Dr. Neal Benowitz, a UCSF professor of medicine, psychiatry and biopharmaceutical sciences at the UCSF-affiliated San Francisco General Hospital Medical Center.

"Although 140 serious ill effects may not seem like that many compared to the number of consumers of these products," says Haller, "adverse effects are widely believed to be underreported by ten-fold or more. So, we believe there are many more injuries than are represented by the FDA reports. And with ephedra, the potential risks are not accompanied by any clear benefits."

"We think, that as currently marketed, these supplements are unreasonably hazardous," Benowitz said. "When used as labeled, ephedrine-containing nutritional supplements present a significant and unreasonable risk of injury."

Most of the stimulating supplements are derived from the herbal plant ma huang, and often also contain caffeine derived from guarana.

"Both ephedra and caffeine are stimulant drugs, and when consumed in combination, the stimulation is much more intense," Benowitz said. "When people drink coffee or other caffeine beverages while taking the supplements, the stimulating effect may become even more pronounced."

Dozens of ephedrine-containing products are sold, with a great variability in the accuracy, completeness and adequacy of labels citing ingredients and potential adverse health effects. "There must be more FDA regulatory control," Haller said. First, uniform product labeling should be enforced, with all ingredients and stimulant quantities specified in a consistent way from product to product." In addition, the FDA must come up with a safe dosing recommendation: a maximum allowable dosage per 24 hours. This may require more research to pinpoint the risk factors, since the researchers suspect but don't know for sure who is at greatest risk, Haller said.

Benowitz said, "Since ephedrine-containing supplements are stimulants, we suspect that the people who should avoid them are those who have kidney disease, those with pre-existing heart disease, high blood pressure, over-active thyroid, or psychiatric disorders, and those with autonomic insufficiency -- abnormalities in the nerves controlling their cardiovascular system - and those with histories of seizures and diabetes."

The full report Haller and Benowitz prepared for the FDA is found in the Federal Register, Vol. 65, issue 64, April 3, 2000. It is Federal docket #00N-1200. The FDA report was titled "Review of Adverse Reaction Reports Involving Ephedrine-containing Herbal Products." More information on the FDA report can be found at: www.accessdata.fda.gov/scripts/oc/ohrms/index.cfm.

The research was supported by funds from the Food and Drug Administration, the National Institute on Drug Abuse, National Institutes of Health.


c) This country needs morality discussions and people questioning people's character more than ever. People have the right to question these things...I also think it's their obligation. You don't have to agree...and you can question mine right back. When you don't question why people do things, you lose site of the goal.

[Lex350]

Originally posted by Si_FlyGuy


Those monkeys are SO staged.:nut: :rofl:


they're on downers.:nut:

[ecstasy_civic]

Originally posted by rotten42



c) This country needs morality discussions and people questioning people's character more than ever. People have the right to question these things...I also think it's their obligation. You don't have to agree...and you can question mine right back. When you don't question why people do things, you lose site of the goal.


I dont question yours because I dont care.

Run for PM:thumbsup: get all the answers you want.

[Lex350]

Originally posted by ecstasy_civic



I dont question yours because I dont care.

Run for PM:thumbsup: get all the answers you want.


how convieniant for you to comment on that but not on point B....

How convieniant for you to duck the issue.

[ecstasy_civic]

I know the effects of Ephedra lol
I dont argue something I dont know about first hand:rolleyes:

You pulling up info you searched for does dick all for me, its been a huge topic of discussion since Hydroxycut w/ Ephedra was banned, do you know what that is?


Edit*

Here, it'll make it easier for you

www.google.com :thumbsup:

[Lex350]

Paging "steelo"

"steelo" it's time for you to put up or shut up!

[Tyler883]

I used to work with an amateur bodybuilder that competes provincially , and I remember a conversation that went something like this:

"Tyler, I have taken just about every pill and supplement you can imagine, and I'm currently spending about 800 a month on food and suppliment........but I don't reccomend that you do the same........You should focus on eating healthy, and if you have a few hundred dollars a month burning a hole in you pocket, then use it to buy healthy convenience foods, or use it to pay someone else to make you healthy meals.....if I hear about you taking anything more than a multivitamin or protien powder, I'm going to kick your ass."

And, I believe him.

[ecstasy_civic]

Originally posted by Tyler883
I used to work with an amateur bodybuilder that competes provincially , and I remember a conversation that went something like this:

"Tyler, I have taken just about every pill and supplement you can imagine, and I'm currently spending about 800 a month on food and suppliment........but I don't reccomend that you do the same........You should focus on eating healthy, and if you have a few hundred dollars a month burning a hole in you pocket, then use it to buy healthy convenience foods, or use it to pay someone else to make you healthy meals.....if I hear about you taking anything more than a multivitamin or protien powder, I'm going to kick your ass."

And, I believe him.

And thats a good statement if you arent training for a specific purpose.
Alot of people dont need anything more than that, but SOME athletes find they need an extra kick in the gym to exploit their full potential.

Now, $800/month sounds like alot, I couldnt imagine spending that much personally, but if hes a body builder, I could see it, shit racks up fast when you consume alot.

[Lex350]

Originally posted by ecstasy_civic
I know the effects of Ephedra lol
I dont argue something I dont know about first hand:rolleyes:


Holy fuck are you a retard? Ignore the science because you haven't experienced a heart attack and because you just don't want to have to do it the hard way.....you'll go far in life!:banghead:

as for being banned...no I didn't see the thread and if a mod tells me I'm doing something I shouldn't,...well I'll cross that bridge when I get to it.


In the mean time, ignoring a problem is no solution.

As far as pulling up research, I was challenged to prove a point...Oh, but using your methodology, because I didn't conduct the medical experiment personally, they are then invalid.

[ecstasy_civic]

Originally posted by rotten42


Holy fuck are you a retard? Ignore the science because you haven't experienced a heart attack and because you just don't want to have to do it the hard way.....you'll go far in life!:banghead:

as for being banned...no I didn't see the thread and if a mod tells me I'm doing something I shouldn't,...well I'll cross that bridge when I get to it.


In the mean time, ignoring a problem is no solution.

As far as pulling up research, I was challenged to prove a point...Oh, but using your methodology, because I didn't conduct the medical experiment personally, they are then invalid.


I think your the one who questioned how I discuss things? And then you call me a retard? LOL
BTW, your not getting banned, Hydroxycut was, thats why I put the google link there so you could search for it, because I knew you had no flying fuck of a clue what it was.

[Lex350]

Originally posted by ecstasy_civic


And thats a good statement if you arent training for a specific purpose.
Alot of people dont need anything more than that, but SOME athletes find they need an extra kick in the gym to exploit their full potential.

Now, $800/month sounds like alot, I couldnt imagine spending that much personally, but if hes a body builder, I could see it, shit racks up fast when you consume alot.


and you are training for what exactly?...

[ecstasy_civic]

Originally posted by rotten42



and you are training for what exactly?...

:rofl:
good movie, have you seen it?


I train for a few different things, but what I consider very competitive and my sport is based solely on the conditioning of my body, its not something I take lightly or that I could "cheat my through" as you had said earlier.

[Lex350]

Just as I thought....nothing in particular...unless vanity is a sport these days.

I

[steelo]

Originally posted by rotten42



1) I perceive your opinion to be:

a) I am a dip-shit because I am questioning people's morality judgment when they use pills to get their physical results. Sorry let me clarify..."dip-shit" probably isn't a strong enough term but I don't want to use your "ball sweat" comment....I have doubts about the validity of that too.:D

b) You think using these ephedrine laces pills is a no-nonsense, safe approach to achieving you results.

c) You don't think anybody has a right to question the issue of using these in general and that just because you didn't ask for it, I still don't have the right to bring it up.


My answers:

a) A question of morality (character - really what ever you want to call it) isn’t a scientific question. It doesn't need a study to back it up. It is a question of one’s values. I question a person’s choice to use a potentially harmful drug to obtain a superficial goal....because if you are telling me its to improve your health...IT ISN'T.

Please point me to where I implicitly stated the words you're putting into my mouth. I never once said it's to improve health. Go ahead and look. It's not there. Please go back to my original comment:


Originally posted by steelo

Stick to threads you don't look so foolish commenting in. :thumbsup:

You look foolish because:

a) You are preaching
b) Your thoughts on training are dead wrong. The subject at hand is clearly burning fat, not less gym more sports to keep motivated.


Originally posted by rotten42


1) I perceive your opinion to be:

b) You think using these ephedrine laces pills is a no-nonsense, safe approach to achieving you results.


My answers:

B) There is so much info on this but here's a good one to start. It's not a difficult read:

Again, please point me to where I implicitly stated the words you're putting into my mouth. I don't need to read all that rhetoric. EVERY drug manufactured has an encyclopedia length list of contraindications, warnings, and side effects that have been reported. This list includes, but is certainly not limited to aspirin, tylenol, advil, etc. I bet there have been more people killed as a result of alcohol in the last 24 hours in North America than in the last 5 years from ephedrine. Please don't even start in on the morality of alcohol - I'd like to get some sleep tonight.



Originally posted by rotten42



1) I perceive your opinion to be:

c) You don't think anybody has a right to question the issue of using these in general and that just because you didn't ask for it, I still don't have the right to bring it up.


My answers:

c) This country needs morality discussions and people questioning people's character more than ever. People have the right to question these things...I also think it's their obligation. You don't have to agree...and you can question mine right back. When you don't question why people do things, you lose site of the goal.


Just because you can do something doesn't mean you should. Did your mom raise you without manners? Nobody likes a preacher. Especially one that comes along out of nowhere and starts offering bad advice on the subject at hand ie. less gym and play more sports. Playing more sports is not the most effective way to lose weight.

Anyway, you should probably get right out there and play some sports fella because if we ever meet up in person you're going to look really bad standing next to me.

[ecstasy_civic]

Originally posted by rotten42
Just as I thought....nothing in particular...unless vanity is a sport these days.

I


Oh wow.........

If you must know, I study Muay Thai Kickboxing, Brazilian Ju Jitsu and Greco Roman wrestling 5 days a week, on top of that im in the gym 6 days a week.

Its not my fault my physical results came with hard work and determination;)

[Lex350]

paging "steelo".. science get in the way of your reply?

I want to know if my assessment of your opinion was right
:D

[steelo]

Originally posted by rotten42



and you are training for what exactly?...

Well if he's "The Ringer" I guess your sport would be:

http://www.filmsinreview.com/Images/A_G/fluffer.jpg

[Lex350]

Originally posted by ecstasy_civic



Oh wow.........

If you must know, I study Muay Thai Kickboxing, Brazilian Ju Jitsu and Greco Roman wrestling 5 days a week, on top of that im in the gym 6 days a week.

Its not my fault my physical results came with hard work and determination;)


and drugs...don't forget that...and yes it appears that you could kick my ass if you are so inclinded. It still doesn't change my assesment.

[steelo]

Originally posted by rotten42
paging "steelo".. science get in the way of your reply?

I want to know if my assessment of your opinion was right
:D

Are you new? Scroll up kid.

[Lex350]

Originally posted by steelo


Well if he's "The Ringer" I guess your sport would be:

http://www.filmsinreview.com/Images/A_G/fluffer.jpg


so what about it? I answered you request.

[calgarygts]

Originally posted by ecstasy_civic


And thats a good statement if you arent training for a specific purpose.
Alot of people dont need anything more than that, but SOME athletes find they need an extra kick in the gym to exploit their full potential.

This whole argument seems kind of silly to me so I'll stay out of it - but what you say here is so very very wrong. I've been in athletics in one form or another for the last seven years. The last three and a half years have been spent training basically six days a week for bobsleigh and I can tell you that of all the athletes I've ever met I don't know one single person taking ephidrine to supplement their workouts. I'm friends with a lot of athletes going to the olympics this year and have trained with a lot of different athletes over the years in different sports - some of the most elite athletes I've ever met have never taken anything more than protein powder to supplement their diets when they can't get the proper levels in with food.
Please stop saying that athletes need this supplement to reach their peak performance, because that's garbage. If you're having a down day at the gym and you 'need' an extra kick to work out hard, you're not much of an athlete in my opinion.

[steelo]

Originally posted by rotten42



so what about it? I answered you request.

Wow, you truly are a dimwit. I really hate saying that to someone less fortunate, but honestly.

My reply is at the top of page 3. Gretzky for the lose.

[Lex350]

Originally posted by steelo


Are you new? Scroll up kid.


so that's all you got. I thought so.....Confronted with some evidence you turtle and resort to posting a pic from your gay porn collection.

That just re-inforces my point that there is a lack of judgement and character in what you do.

[ecstasy_civic]

Originally posted by rotten42



and drugs...don't forget that...and yes it appears that you could kick my ass if you are so inclinded. It still doesn't change my assesment.


Ah, drugs....??? ECA stack? BAHAHAHAHA

These 'drugs' dont make you build muscle, nor do they add to your ABILITY to gain muscle, maintain a cardiovascular system to handle 45min of near sprinting.
Its a temporary boost to help the intensity of your training.

Do us a favour, keep your assesment to yourself, your fucking clueless and seem to ramble alot.

[00CivicSi]

Originally posted by calgarygts


This whole argument seems kind of silly to me so I'll stay out of it - but what you say here is so very very wrong. I've been in athletics in one form or another for the last seven years. The last three and a half years have been spent training basically six days a week for bobsleigh and I can tell you that of all the athletes I've ever met I don't know one single person taking ephidrine to supplement their workouts. I'm friends with a lot of athletes going to the olympics this year and have trained with a lot of different athletes over the years in different sports - some of the most elite athletes I've ever met have never taken anything more than protein powder to supplement their diets when they can't get the proper levels in with food.
Please stop saying that athletes need this supplement to reach their peak performance, because that's garbage. If you're having a down day at the gym and you 'need' an extra kick to work out hard, you're not much of an athlete in my opinion.



They don't use it because they get tested for it. Your saying if it wasn't tested they wouldn't use it? They would be the first to use any supplements that wasn't tested or banned.

[Lex350]

Originally posted by calgarygts


This whole argument seems kind of silly to me so I'll stay out of it - but what you say here is so very very wrong. I've been in athletics in one form or another for the last seven years. The last three and a half years have been spent training basically six days a week for bobsleigh and I can tell you that of all the athletes I've ever met I don't know one single person taking ephidrine to supplement their workouts. I'm friends with a lot of athletes going to the olympics this year and have trained with a lot of different athletes over the years in different sports - some of the most elite athletes I've ever met have never taken anything more than protein powder to supplement their diets when they can't get the proper levels in with food.
Please stop saying that athletes need this supplement to reach their peak performance, because that's garbage. If you're having a down day at the gym and you 'need' an extra kick to work out hard, you're not much of an athlete in my opinion.

Now does he have any credibility in your eyes... I now it's not first hand so it probably doesn;t fit your symbolic logic.


Calgary GTS do you also vary the types of work outs you do?...within reason to prevent injury.

[ecstasy_civic]

Originally posted by calgarygts


This whole argument seems kind of silly to me so I'll stay out of it - but what you say here is so very very wrong. I've been in athletics in one form or another for the last seven years. The last three and a half years have been spent training basically six days a week for bobsleigh and I can tell you that of all the athletes I've ever met I don't know one single person taking ephidrine to supplement their workouts. I'm friends with a lot of athletes going to the olympics this year and have trained with a lot of different athletes over the years in different sports - some of the most elite athletes I've ever met have never taken anything more than protein powder to supplement their diets when they can't get the proper levels in with food.
Please stop saying that athletes need this supplement to reach their peak performance, because that's garbage. If you're having a down day at the gym and you 'need' an extra kick to work out hard, you're not much of an athlete in my opinion.

Read my post again PLEASE!

I said SOME its even in caps lol because there are SOME athletes who do use ALOT of different supplement, Ephedra is one of them, and I personally know SOME athletes that do use it.

So.:dunno:

[Lex350]

Originally posted by ecstasy_civic



Ah, drugs....??? ECA stack? BAHAHAHAHA

These 'drugs' dont make you build muscle, nor do they add to your ABILITY to gain muscle, maintain a cardiovascular system to handle 45min of near sprinting.
Its a temporary boost to help the intensity of your training.

Do us a favour, keep your assesment to yourself, your fucking clueless and seem to ramble alot.


learn to read twit..NOT ONCE DID I TALK ABOUT BUILDING MUSCLE...NOT ONCE!!

Youy just brpight that up...perhap a freudian slip? This pills are a drug..plain and simple....The IOC sees them as a drug.

[steelo]

Originally posted by calgarygts


This whole argument seems kind of silly to me so I'll stay out of it - but what you say here is so very very wrong. I've been in athletics in one form or another for the last seven years. The last three and a half years have been spent training basically six days a week for bobsleigh and I can tell you that of all the athletes I've ever met I don't know one single person taking ephidrine to supplement their workouts. I'm friends with a lot of athletes going to the olympics this year and have trained with a lot of different athletes over the years in different sports - some of the most elite athletes I've ever met have never taken anything more than protein powder to supplement their diets when they can't get the proper levels in with food.
Please stop saying that athletes need this supplement to reach their peak performance, because that's garbage. If you're having a down day at the gym and you 'need' an extra kick to work out hard, you're not much of an athlete in my opinion.

Coming from a bastion of the most corrupt and laughable organization on the planet. I'm really glad you stayed out of it because I'd almost want to say something. Almost. I too have known guys that bobsleigh and I have stories that are completely contrary to what you are claiming. Save it for the IOC buddy because most people know the olympics are a fucking ad for coke and mcdonalds. :thumbsup:

[steelo]

Originally posted by rotten42



so that's all you got. I thought so.....Confronted with some evidence you turtle and resort to posting a pic from your gay porn collection.

That just re-inforces my point that there is a lack of judgement and character in what you do.

Idiot. Here it is. Just like it has been at the top of page 3 for the last 20 minutes.



Originally posted by rotten42



1) I perceive your opinion to be:

a) I am a dip-shit because I am questioning people's morality judgment when they use pills to get their physical results. Sorry let me clarify..."dip-shit" probably isn't a strong enough term but I don't want to use your "ball sweat" comment....I have doubts about the validity of that too.:D

b) You think using these ephedrine laces pills is a no-nonsense, safe approach to achieving you results.

c) You don't think anybody has a right to question the issue of using these in general and that just because you didn't ask for it, I still don't have the right to bring it up.


My answers:

a) A question of morality (character - really what ever you want to call it) isn’t a scientific question. It doesn't need a study to back it up. It is a question of one’s values. I question a person’s choice to use a potentially harmful drug to obtain a superficial goal....because if you are telling me its to improve your health...IT ISN'T.

Please point me to where I implicitly stated the words you're putting into my mouth. I never once said it's to improve health. Go ahead and look. It's not there. Please go back to my original comment:


Originally posted by steelo

Stick to threads you don't look so foolish commenting in. :thumbsup:

You look foolish because:

a) You are preaching
b) Your thoughts on training are dead wrong. The subject at hand is clearly burning fat, not less gym more sports to keep motivated.


Originally posted by rotten42


1) I perceive your opinion to be:

b) You think using these ephedrine laces pills is a no-nonsense, safe approach to achieving you results.


My answers:

B) There is so much info on this but here's a good one to start. It's not a difficult read:

Again, please point me to where I implicitly stated the words you're putting into my mouth. I don't need to read all that rhetoric. EVERY drug manufactured has an encyclopedia length list of contraindications, warnings, and side effects that have been reported. This list includes, but is certainly not limited to aspirin, tylenol, advil, etc. I bet there have been more people killed as a result of alcohol in the last 24 hours in North America than in the last 5 years from ephedrine. Please don't even start in on the morality of alcohol - I'd like to get some sleep tonight.



Originally posted by rotten42



1) I perceive your opinion to be:

c) You don't think anybody has a right to question the issue of using these in general and that just because you didn't ask for it, I still don't have the right to bring it up.


My answers:

c) This country needs morality discussions and people questioning people's character more than ever. People have the right to question these things...I also think it's their obligation. You don't have to agree...and you can question mine right back. When you don't question why people do things, you lose site of the goal.


Just because you can do something doesn't mean you should. Did your mom raise you without manners? Nobody likes a preacher. Especially one that comes along out of nowhere and starts offering bad advice on the subject at hand ie. less gym and play more sports. Playing more sports is not the most effective way to lose weight.

Anyway, you should probably get right out there and play some sports fella because if we ever meet up in person you're going to look really bad standing next to me.

[Lex350]

Originally posted by 00CivicSi




They don't use it because they get tested for it. Your saying if it wasn't tested they wouldn't use it? They would be the first to use any supplements that wasn't tested or banned.


anmd they don't use it / allow it because they have determined that on moral grounds its better to see what the human body can acheive through natural means and not through chemicals

Again ecstasy_civic I'm not taling about muscle building drugs.

[ecstasy_civic]

Originally posted by rotten42



learn to read twit..NOT ONCE DID I TALK ABOUT BUILDING MUSCLE...NOT ONCE!!

Youy just brpight that up...perhap a freudian slip? This pills are a drug..plain and simple....The IOC sees them as a drug.

When you talk about drugs, I think steroids, I guess technically, an ECA stack would be classed as drugs too, as would children's tylenol:dunno:

I can tell your getting in a pissy pants mood because your sentences and spelling is getting progressively worse lol

[steelo]

Waiting....did your simple mind figure out how to scroll up yet?