Serious question... conservatives....

[Toma]

So, a question for ya'll ..... WHY are you voting conservative? None of the arguements I have heard make ANY sense, either that, or you guys have a short memory.
Is it:
1) Liberals and the Sponsorship Scandal (300 million)?
2) Liberals "Raiding" the EI fund?
3) Gun registry ? (1.5 billion)
4) Harper promising 5% gst?

A few thoughts to ponder.... The Conservatives under Mulroney brought us the GST and "Free Trade", and even though THEY also raided the UI (EI) Fund, and having the GST "cash cow" managed to increase Canada's Debt FOUR fold.

So Liberals wasted money? What about the 400 BILLION Mulroney and the conservative pissed away?

There are some GREAT books on the Mulroney years if you need to educate yourself properly on the FUCK UP, Uneblieveable debt and corruption the last conservative Gov't left us.

Now, Under Harper, we risk assuming a new national Flag.... one that resembles the one of our southern neighbours, except with one more star....

Say good bye to Heath care
Hello spearatists
say goodbye to minority and womens rights.
risk going to some useless illegal war just cause the American did...

Harper is a self admitted US worshipper, and belongs down there. Don't throw Canada away to this idiot just becuase ALL government is corrupt in one way or another.

CANADA and NOT the US is the GREATEST Country in the World!

[civicrider]

i vote for him because im sick of paying for the socialism here in canada, why should my hard earned money go to some lazy white trash so they can have health care, so dumb young women who make dumb choices to have kids get money to sit at home and take care of that kid, why should i have to pay for other peoples dumb mistakes? you wanna get nocked up at 16 by some guy that leaves you go for it but dont goto to the government begging for money when things get tough. maybe if the government stops handing out my tax money to these people they will smarten up.

[civicrider]

and thats why i am voting for harper, if you wanna see your tax dollars wasted on them vote LIBERAL!!!:thumbsup:

[tirebob]

Originally posted by civicrider
i vote for him because im sick of paying for the socialism here in canada, why should my hard earned money go to some lazy white trash so they can have health care, so dumb young women who make dumb choices to have kids get money to sit at home and take care of that kid, why should i have to pay for other peoples dumb mistakes? you wanna get nocked up at 16 by some guy that leaves you go for it but dont goto to the government begging for money when things get tough. maybe if the government stops handing out my tax money to these people they will smarten up. ummmm... I think if you checked around the world, teen pregnancy has no corelation to the application of taxes...

When I was 16 I know I wasn't thinking "cool! I wanna fuck alot and I don't have to care because the liberals will give me other peoples tax money if I knock the brawd up!" lol!

[tsi_neal]

Originally posted by Toma
So, a question for ya'll ..... WHY are you voting conservative? None of the arguements I have heard make ANY sense, either that, or you guys have a short memory.
Is it:
1) Liberals and the Sponsorship Scandal (300 million)?
2) Liberals "Raiding" the EI fund?
3) Gun registry ? (1.5 billion)
4) Harper promising 5% gst?

A few thoughts to ponder.... The Conservatives under Mulroney brought us the GST and "Free Trade", and even though THEY also raided the UI (EI) Fund, and having the GST "cash cow" managed to increase Canada's Debt FOUR fold.

So Liberals wasted money? What about the 400 BILLION Mulroney and the conservative pissed away?

There are some GREAT books on the Mulroney years if you need to educate yourself properly on the FUCK UP, Uneblieveable debt and corruption the last conservative Gov't left us.

Now, Under Harper, we risk assuming a new national Flag.... one that resembles the one of our southern neighbours, except with one more star....

Say good bye to Heath care
Hello spearatists
say goodbye to minority and womens rights.
risk going to some useless illegal war just cause the American did...

Harper is a self admitted US worshipper, and belongs down there. Don't throw Canada away to this idiot just becuase ALL government is corrupt in one way or another.

CANADA and NOT the US is the GREATEST Country in the World!


This is the exact reason why im voting liberal... not because i feel liberals are better choice. but because history tends to repeat itself and the conservative history is pretty grim. (not that my vote actually matters tho, since im in harpers riding :banghead: )

[civicrider]

i dunno younger pregnant girls i know seem to think its okay, its like an incentive to have kids, you get free money in the mail every month

[Toma]

Originally posted by civicrider
and thats why i am voting for harper, if you wanna see your tax dollars wasted on them vote LIBERAL!!!:thumbsup:
Funny though isn't it....

While "wasting" all this money on "social programs", the liberals STILL managed to wipe out Conservative debt :dunno:

Next!

[5hift]

Originally posted by civicrider
i vote for him because im sick of paying for the socialism here in canada, why should my hard earned money go to some lazy white trash so they can have health care, so dumb young women who make dumb choices to have kids get money to sit at home and take care of that kid, why should i have to pay for other peoples dumb mistakes? you wanna get nocked up at 16 by some guy that leaves you go for it but dont goto to the government begging for money when things get tough. maybe if the government stops handing out my tax money to these people they will smarten up.

This is the most ignorant , misinformed opinion one could have. I find it funny that you keep refering it to your tax money being spent, when I highly doubt you have personally even contributed a significant amount of money to taxes.

[tirebob]

Originally posted by civicrider
i dunno younger pregnant girls i know seem to think its okay, its like an incentive to have kids, you get free money in the mail every month Kids fuck because it is fun... plain and simple. Ask the girls you know who got pregnant for fanancial gain...

[Lex350]

Originally posted by Toma
So, a question for ya'll ..... WHY are you voting conservative? None of the arguements I have heard make ANY sense, either that, or you guys have a short memory.
Is it:
1) Liberals and the Sponsorship Scandal (300 million)?
2) Liberals "Raiding" the EI fund?
3) Gun registry ? (1.5 billion)
4) Harper promising 5% gst?

A few thoughts to ponder.... The Conservatives under Mulroney brought us the GST and "Free Trade", and even though THEY also raided the UI (EI) Fund, and having the GST "cash cow" managed to increase Canada's Debt FOUR fold.

So Liberals wasted money? What about the 400 BILLION Mulroney and the conservative pissed away?

There are some GREAT books on the Mulroney years if you need to educate yourself properly on the FUCK UP, Uneblieveable debt and corruption the last conservative Gov't left us.

Now, Under Harper, we risk assuming a new national Flag.... one that resembles the one of our southern neighbours, except with one more star....

Say good bye to Heath care
Hello spearatists
say goodbye to minority and womens rights.
risk going to some useless illegal war just cause the American did...

Harper is a self admitted US worshipper, and belongs down there. Don't throw Canada away to this idiot just becuase ALL government is corrupt in one way or another.

CANADA and NOT the US is the GREATEST Country in the World!


I see you have drank that Liberal Kool-aid. Don't you think people have had enough of the boogie man scare tactics from Liberal campaigns over the years?
#1 Mulroney is not running for office right now last time I checked
#2 You liberal can bury your head in the sand all you like but Canada needs to US more than they need us. It's in our best interest to be on good terms with them. That said, we can still maintain our sovereignty and I believe that the conservative will do that.
#3 You sure like to gloss over the short comings of the Liberal party quickly. I guess you like getting fiscally raped. Go read the Sun today about the over 200 reasons not to vote liberal. It's an eye opener.

[civicrider]

Originally posted by 5hift


This is the most ignorant , misinformed opinion one could have. I find it funny that you keep refering it to your tax money being spent, when I highly doubt you have personally even contributed a significant amount of money to taxes.

not alot yet, thats why i am voting harper so maybe down the road i wont have to lose so much money being taxed.

toma your right in that sense but no matter what leaders will waste money on one thing on another, with conservative i think money will be wasted on things more important to me, unlike the liberals banning handguns, social benefits, minority rights, like it seems all the differnt groups in canada are saying "what about me?" gays get their marrage ect, maybe all the differnt races should get their own, liberals are trying to make everyone happy and in the end it will rip the country apart, canada needs a melting pot society in order to hold canada together, i dont agree with all harpers ideas but i think hes worth a try

[tsi_neal]

Originally posted by rotten42

I see you have drank that Liberal Kool-aid. Don't you think people have had enough of the boogie man scare tactics from Liberal campaigns over the years?
#1 Mulroney is not running for office right now last time I checked
#2 You liberal can bury your head in the sand all you like but Canada needs to US more than they need us. It's in our best interest to be on good terms with them. That said, we can still maintain our sovereignty and I believe that the conservative will do that.
#3 You sure like to gloss over the short comings of the Liberal party quickly. I guess you like getting fiscally raped. Go read the Sun today about the over 200 reasons not to vote liberal. It's an eye opener.


#1, The man doesnt make the party... this isnt the US and the priminister isnt all powerfull
#2 We currently ARE on good relations with the americans despite their war mongering bullshit
#3 Your problem is you read the sun for more than the sports section


A vote for the conservatives is a vote for bush, and Id hope that enough canadians are smarter than that.

[civicrider]

Originally posted by CMSbob
Kids fuck because it is fun... plain and simple. Ask the girls you know who got pregnant for fanancial gain...

of course they do it for fun but when it goes wrong theres no penalty, if they didnt get help from anyone maybe next time they would think twice before making that decision, so im saying they shouldnt be rewarded for that choice they should be educated more and have to figure out their own problems, because in the end those girls will never get a chance to go back to school and feed off welfare for life, bu fixing the problem before it starts everyone will be better off.
the young girls might finish school and make good money and get out of poverty and tax payers wont have to pay for others welfare

[tsi_neal]

Originally posted by civicrider


...
with conservative i think money will be wasted on things more important to me, unlike the liberals banning handguns, social benefits, minority rights, like it seems all the differnt groups in canada are saying "what about me?" gays get their marrage ect, ...

So what your saying is you want everyone walking the street packing a 9mm, you want to axe social services so the poor are much worse off and will be FORCED into crime and prostitution making our society a real ugly place, youre a racist (take them minortiy rights away?), and your anti gay to boot...

Somhow id have a pretty hard time believeing someone i didnt know at all was all those things, but it seems like a conservative vote is a step in that direction

[Toma]

Originally posted by rotten42


#3 You sure like to gloss over the short comings of the Liberal party quickly. I guess you like getting fiscally raped. Go read the Sun today about the over 200 reasons not to vote liberal. It's an eye opener.
I don't read trash :rofl:

[civicrider]

is everyone packing a 9mm right now no? so why take away the right to own one, i would like to see the social services reduced and educate the poor people instead of feeding them free money, thats not helping them improve themselves, i want to IMPROVE their life, and by you supporting giving out handouts isnt going to accomplish that. i feel that if everyone got what they wanted nothing would work, should the KKK get a community center just like everyone else? how can you say no if you said yes to everyone else? not just on the racial line, gays can get married, maybe people who want to have multipul wives should that be legalized? seriously you cant let everyone have what they want, some religous groups have extreme rules should they be able to do those in canada since we allow everyone else to express their religon? tsi_neal you can call me a racist and a gay hater, answer those questions first and then think for a bit
thanks

[tirebob]

Originally posted by civicrider


of course they do it for fun but when it goes wrong theres no penalty, if they didnt get help from anyone maybe next time they would think twice before making that decision, so im saying they shouldnt be rewarded for that choice they should be educated more and have to figure out their own problems, because in the end those girls will never get a chance to go back to school and feed off welfare for life, bu fixing the problem before it starts everyone will be better off.
the young girls might finish school and make good money and get out of poverty and tax payers wont have to pay for others welfare Sorry man, but what would YOU do with 16 year old pregant girls??? No matter what you would like to belive, not helping them is not going to stop ONE of them from getting pregnent. What is will do though is leave scared kids without a place to turn, which in turn will lead to increased abortions, abandonments, broken families, and yes... even crime. People without assistance (not all of course, but enough to make this a reality) will turn to various forms of survival, many of them dangerous and damaging.

Would you have it so that now they are left to fend for themselves at this age? So maybe they get kicked out (many come from non-loving families)... They have no money... Maybe they turn to crime to survive (since it's extrememly difficult to get a job at 16 that can support a new family and allow you to provide a safe and nurturing enviroment to raise a baby) and making drugs, selling drugs, or maybe even thier bodies, etc as is a lot quicker and easier way (in thier confused and scared minds) to just survive....

This is not a fear tactic... It is the truth... Sure this story will vary with everyone, but in the end you will not make it go away by not providing a safety net... As a matter of fact you are going to make it worse for society, and HELL for that baby and 16 year old mother... Good job... I know I would be proud to live in your country...

[eljefe]

Originally posted by civicrider
is everyone packing a 9mm right now no? so why take away the right to own one, i would like to see the social services reduced and educate the poor people instead of feeding them free money, thats not helping them improve themselves, i want to IMPROVE their life, and by you supporting giving out handouts isnt going to accomplish that. i feel that if everyone got what they wanted nothing would work, should the KKK get a community center just like everyone else? how can you say no if you said yes to everyone else? not just on the racial line, gays can get married, maybe people who want to have multipul wives should that be legalized? seriously you cant let everyone have what they want, some religous groups have extreme rules should they be able to do those in canada since we allow everyone else to express their religon? tsi_neal you can call me a racist and a gay hater, answer those questions first and then think for a bit
thanks


I am almost speechless :nut:

[Kirbs17]

Answers 1, 2 and 3. Plus the Liberals are imcompetent, they've been in power for to long.

[Xtrema]

Like I said before, crime and punishment is why I'm supporting PC. You know Liberals are corrupted, they need a wake up call.

It's not like PC ain't corrupt, all governments are to a level. That's how things get done. But when it's getting out of hand, and where you live keep getting the short end of the stick, it's time for a change.

Also, it's pretty ignorant to compare this PC to the old PC in the 80's. That was a PC rooted in the east which sway more to the left just like the current liberals. The current PC is mainly rooted in Reform which is based out of west and is positioned slightly to the right.

I don't know why people keep falling for Liberals fear tactic. We still have the senate (although a lame one) and the courts to keep the new government in check.

And stop this vote Harper = Bush BS. Yes, they will align better but that's doesn't mean Harper will support the next war. And truth be known, US is so exhausted right now, they can't start any shit til the next government comes in anyway.

[5hift]

Originally posted by civicrider


of course they do it for fun but when it goes wrong theres no penalty, if they didnt get help from anyone maybe next time they would think twice before making that decision, so im saying they shouldnt be rewarded for that choice they should be educated more and have to figure out their own problems, because in the end those girls will never get a chance to go back to school and feed off welfare for life, bu fixing the problem before it starts everyone will be better off.
the young girls might finish school and make good money and get out of poverty and tax payers wont have to pay for others welfare \

You do realize that Harper is against a woman's right to choose. If a girl who mistakingly gets pregnant has the right to chose, she would save society the burden of welfare and other programs needed to support her and her kid. Where as if she has no choice but to have the kid, taxpayers would be raising her kid.

[tirebob]

Originally posted by civicrider
is everyone packing a 9mm right now no? so why take away the right to own one, i would like to see the social services reduced and educate the poor people instead of feeding them free money, Ummm how would you propose to educate the poor without social services... Can they stay at your house while they go to school to learn how to become a productive citizen such as yourself? Maybe your dad can pay for thier education so they can go to good schools and get great jobs... Oh, thats right, the world needs ditch diggers too...

[civicrider]

use the tax money right now to educate them and then down the road HOPFULY they will not be feeding off the country's tit. im trying to say is their needs to be change, someones gotta stop giving handouts to cover up the problem. and right now me you and my dad are paying for their cigarettes so id rather pay for their education, wouldnt you?

[Lex350]

you just keep drinking that kool-aid






Originally posted by tsi_neal



#1, The man doesnt make the party... this isnt the US and the priminister isnt all powerfull
#2 We currently ARE on good relations with the americans despite their war mongering bullshit
#3 Your problem is you read the sun for more than the sports section


A vote for the conservatives is a vote for bush, and Id hope that enough canadians are smarter than that.

[Lex350]

Originally posted by Toma

I don't read trash :rofl:


right you probably read the Globe and mail...no bias there;)

[eljefe]

Originally posted by civicrider
use the tax money right now to educate them and then down the road HOPFULY they will not be feeding off the country's tit. im trying to say is their needs to be change, someones gotta stop giving handouts to cover up the problem.

Liberal or Conservative those programs will be in place and rightly so. These programs time and time again allow a young unwed mother to have the financial resources to finish school and break the cycle of poverty. Social programs are an integral part of our country and part of what makes us great. Keep up with your own eductaion and quest for knowledge and you may start to understand.

[5hift]

The way I see it is no matter what government we put in power, they are going to be corrupt.

If anyone has actually watched any of the debates going on, Martin clearly shows he is much smarter than Harper in every debate I've seen. Harper is Bush's little bitch and is the last thing we need in Canada. Martin may be corrupt, but he knows how to run a country like Canada, where as Harper would run it like the US.

[tsi_neal]

All right, not that i need to answer these but ill humor you...



Originally posted by civicrider
is everyone packing a 9mm right now no? so why take away the right to own one,

1, id say a VERY small percentage of people pack a gun in canaday, but make it legal and youll have alot more, and alot more shootings, alot more gun related homicides. Gun related violence WILL go up, that is a proven documented fact, and certainly one i dont ever want to experiance.


Originally posted by civicrider
i would like to see the social services reduced and educate the poor people instead of feeding them free money, thats not helping them improve themselves, i want to IMPROVE their life, and by you supporting giving out handouts isnt going to accomplish that.

2, Social services works their asses off to educate, infact that is their primary mission, however with the capabilities of many of the people that use social services to live no amount of education will help them as they are not capable for one reason or another. The point is the money goes to a hand up whereever possible and then the handouts go to people that cant help themselves. Yes there are people that refuse to help themselves, but they are somewhat a minority and the social workers i know are probably the most frustrated with these people out of anyone, but these are also the people that are often likely to end up in lives of crime without the hand outs...


Originally posted by civicrider
i feel that if everyone got what they wanted nothing would work, should the KKK get a community center just like everyone else? how can you say no if you said yes to everyone else? not just on the racial line, gays can get married, maybe people who want to have multipul wives should that be legalized? seriously you cant let everyone have what they want, some religous groups have extreme rules should they be able to do those in canada since we allow everyone else to express their religon? tsi_neal you can call me a racist and a gay hater, answer those questions first and then think for a bit
thanks

3, there is a difference between freedom of speech and expression and the opression of otherpeoples rights. Within the freedom of speech laws its pointed out that you cannot opress another, so your KKK crap is blown out of the water pretty fast.

[civicrider]

Originally posted by eljefe


Liberal or Conservative those programs will be in place and rightly so. These programs time and time again allow a young unwed mother to have the financial resources to finish school and break the cycle of poverty. Social programs are an integral part of our country and part of what makes us great. Keep up with your own eductaion and quest for knowledge and you may start to understand.

but maybe they could show young unwed girls that they should take the steps not to get knocked up until they are on their own feet, use tax money to do that so one day they dont need handouts at all, wouldnt you rather girls getting educated first having stability then bringing kids into the world in a good place?

its called thinking differnt, change.....




tsi_neal
so do you think men who belive in multipul wives should have this right? if gays get married why not right? so where is the line drawn?

and they arnt making it legal to carry one just own one, something like 80% of murders were with unregisted guns anyway, make them illigal it will be worse, more people will be owning illigal handguns that can not be tracked so more killings will go unsolved, doesnt seem like a good way to resolve the problem:dunno:

[roopi]

I like this:
Harper saved his last campaign promise for his campaign-document rollout on Friday, and it was a doozy. Any individual or corporation will be able to buy and sell anything (real-estate, stocks, art, whatever) tax-free, as long as the proceeds are re-invested somewhere within 6 months.

The government will still receive taxes but it can be deferred until death if wanted. This allows people to re-invest anything they earn.

Liberals bannings Space Weapons? :rofl:
http://www.torontosun.com/Comment/Commentary/2006/01/14/1394422.html

[tirebob]

Originally posted by civicrider
use the tax money right now to educate them and then down the road HOPFULY they will not be feeding off the country's tit. im trying to say is their needs to be change, someones gotta stop giving handouts to cover up the problem. and right now me you and my dad are paying for their cigarettes so id rather pay for their education, wouldnt you? Again, I am asking how you would propose to educate them... Walking down the street with a loud speaker? Maybe round them up and put them in a camp where they can attend classes? Not all poor people are children man. How are you going to educate a poor person who can't go to your classes because he has to hold down a minimum wage job to feed himself and his family. And if they aren't working, with you they would be living on the street because there would be NO source of income to put a shelter over their heads, so how would you reach them to be able to educate them...

Most social service users are people who use it to get back on thier feet and move onto better places in life and society. Some (and not as many as you might imagine) are lifelong abusers that will never do anything else because that is how they are, but these are the same type of people who without it would find other ways (crime etc) to get money without having to do the daily grind... While this sucks, it is true. If we take all these people and cut them off, we will have to spend a lot more money on policing, jails. etc, then we would in welfare dollars, and this way there is a lot less misery too... I am not saying this is good at all, but all you talk about is the financial issues of welfare, and I think you don't realize that your way costs society a lot more in both money and societal problems than welfare...

[Toma]

Fuck off Civc Rider.... you are clueless.... go debate your nonsense in someone elses thread. Jesus.... better yet, go live a little first so your opinion will be less black and white....

Obviously all unemplyed or homeless people are too blame, and single pregnant girls are dimwits.... :rolleyes:

Holy fuck.... you are dumber then Tyler :nut:

[hampstor]

Originally posted by civicrider
i dunno younger pregnant girls i know seem to think its okay, its like an incentive to have kids, you get free money in the mail every month

The girls you know honestly think that they're going to NET MORE income after having kids??? I don't think they realize how much it cost your parents to raise you to the age of 18.

The girls you know are obviously heavily misinformed if they honestly believe they're going to make money by having kids.

If you believe this is a significant factor in teen pregnancy then can you honestly tell me you believe that cutting off all assistance to single young pregnant teenagers is going to reduce teen pregnancy rates?

I don't know what kind of people you hang out with, but the people I hang out with can tell you that $$ from the govt is not in the top 5 thoughts going through a girl's mind when there's a dick inside of her.

I think you just are going along with the political flow of western Canada (liberal bashing) and grasping at straws because you honestly have no idea what is going on.

[tsi_neal]

Originally posted by civicrider
use the tax money right now to educate them and then down the road HOPFULY they will not be feeding off the country's tit. im trying to say is their needs to be change, someones gotta stop giving handouts to cover up the problem. and right now me you and my dad are paying for their cigarettes so id rather pay for their education, wouldnt you?


You do realize that your if against your tax dollars going to social services to care for needy, you need to be against your tax dollars going to anysort of handout right?

And dude if your tax dollars dont pay for their smokes your stolen car will...

[Weapon_R]

Liberals may be corrupted, but anyone who has the guts to ward off American influence in Canadian politics gets an okay by me. Harper would make weekly flights to the White House to give GWB head.

[civicrider]

Originally posted by Toma
Fuck off Civc Rider.... you are clueless.... go debate your nonsense in someone elses thread. Jesus.... better yet, go live a little first so your opinion will be less black and white....

Obviously all unemplyed or homeless people are too blame, and single pregnant girls are dimwits.... :rolleyes:

Holy fuck.... you are dumber then Tyler :nut:

yes the comeback of swearing, you ask of my opinion and then tell me to shut up, yo my friend and the master debater:rofl:

grow up

[civicrider]

Originally posted by hampstor


The girls you know honestly think that they're going to NET MORE income after having kids??? I don't think they realize how much it cost your parents to raise you to the age of 18.

The girls you know are obviously heavily misinformed if they honestly believe they're going to make money by having kids.

If you believe this is a significant factor in teen pregnancy then can you honestly tell me you believe that cutting off all assistance to single young pregnant teenagers is going to reduce teen pregnancy rates?

I don't know what kind of people you hang out with, but the people I hang out with can tell you that $$ from the govt is not in the top 5 thoughts going through a girl's mind when there's a dick inside of her.

I think you just are going along with the political flow of western Canada (liberal bashing) and grasping at straws because you honestly have no idea what is going on.

yes exactaly they arnt educated, they dont realize that in the long run working a real job will make them alot more then sitting at home scraping by what the government gives them!

[tsi_neal]

Originally posted by Weapon_R
Liberals may be corrupted, but anyone who has the guts to ward off American influence in Canadian politics gets an okay by me. Harper would make weekly flights to the White House to give GWB head.

it would be the clinton/lewinski scandal all over again, but on a much larger scale :rofl:

[civicrider]

Originally posted by CMSbob
Again, I am asking how you would propose to educate them... Walking down the street with a loud speaker? Maybe round them up and put them in a camp where they can attend classes? Not all poor people are children man. How are you going to educate a poor person who can't go to your classes because he has to hold down a minimum wage job to feed himself and his family. And if they aren't working, with you they would be living on the street because there would be NO source of income to put a shelter over their heads, so how would you reach them to be able to educate them...

Most social service users are people who use it to get back on thier feet and move onto better places in life and society. Some (and not as many as you might imagine) are lifelong abusers that will never do anything else because that is how they are, but these are the same type of people who without it would find other ways (crime etc) to get money without having to do the daily grind... While this sucks, it is true. If we take all these people and cut them off, we will have to spend a lot more money on policing, jails. etc, then we would in welfare dollars, and this way there is a lot less misery too... I am not saying this is good at all, but all you talk about is the financial issues of welfare, and I think you don't realize that your way costs society a lot more in both money and societal problems than welfare...

if i had the answer then this problem wouldnt exist, the most i can do is vote for someone who might find the answer

[Xtrema]

Originally posted by tsi_neal
And dude if your tax dollars dont pay for their smokes your stolen car will...

So what you say is you love giving bullies your lunch money because it keep you safe?

If I kidnap your significant other, and you're willing to pay to see her/him alive again?

[tirebob]

Originally posted by civicrider


but maybe they could show young unwed girls that they should take the steps not to get knocked up until they are on their own feet, use tax money to do that so one day they dont need handouts at all, wouldnt you rather girls getting educated first having stability then bringing kids into the world in a good place?

its called thinking differnt, change.....






Man, if you really think that our children are not HAMMERED with the dangers of pre-marital sex every day throught thier young lives, you are probably home schooled in a house with no outside communication...

What are you going to do that is not already being done to death today?

The probelm is not what girls don't know about pregnancy... The problem is that SEX is human nature and we live in a society that sells sex in everything because it makes a profit for big business... Girls are told to be sexy by the same big business that you would have us support. In one hand we say educate, but in the other hand it is being thrust upon them and they are being told that they are not normal without it...

Again the problem with teen sex and pregancy is not going away because you cut off their assistance when they do end up pregnant... And if you have an education method the the entire world has not yet figured out, then by all means let it be known and save the world!

[civicrider]

no matter what way you go the government is corrupt, i doubt any major changes will occur regardless of who gets in power, just another corrupt government, ither way no differnce

[tsi_neal]

Originally posted by civicrider


...
tsi_neal
so do you think men who belive in multipul wives should have this right? if gays get married why not right? so where is the line drawn?

and they arnt making it legal to carry one just own one, something like 80% of murders were with unregisted guns anyway, make them illigal it will be worse, more people will be owning illigal handguns that can not be tracked so more killings will go unsolved, doesnt seem like a good way to resolve the problem:dunno:


If there is a man in this society that can both find gullible enough women and manage to swing it, then power to him.

Your ignoring the fact that more guns = more gun related violence. And for the record its very legal to own a handgun, there are just so many hoops to jump through that all but the most hardcore gun people choose not to.

[civicrider]

there are groups in canada (BC) and the men and women agree that they should have multipul wives, then maybe the creep next door wants to marry his sister, who says he cant? then maybe the people who have fetishes for animals want to marry their pets, you think its okay to keep streching this line further?

[tictactoe2004]

I think the liberals are the lesser of the evils. Martin may not be my favorite person, but Harper is a mini-bush wanna be. I could care less about lowering taxes, if I ran the country I would raise taxes to pay off the debt as fast as possible, then put some more money into Canada, health care, education, medical research for serious issues such as cancers and such before lowering them again. To cut the GST from 7% to 5% is totally pointless and would do us more harm than good.

Anyways, Liberals have my vote as there are no other options, the only thing that scares me right now is thinking back to that paper from over seas when bush was re-elected saying something along the lines of "How could 50 million people be so stupid?" I have a grim feeling that the Harper is going to get elected and by the time everyone figures out they made a huge mistake its going to be too late and set this whole country back 10 years.

[tsi_neal]

Originally posted by Xtrema


So what you say is you love giving bullies your lunch money because it keep you safe?

If I kidnap your significant other, and you're willing to pay to see her/him alive again?

No im saying that some people NEED the handouts, and if they dont get them they will resort to the easiest form of survival, which unfortunatly is crime, theft, dealing, prostitution, etc.

Keep in mind that im talking about SOME, there are a lot of very good people that need handouts at one point or another you for example might have something unbelieveably fucked up happen and need some help at some point in life. wouldnt you like to know its there just in case then have someone at a counter tell you to go fist yourself when all you want is a hot meal at a soup kitchen...

[tictactoe2004]

Originally posted by civicrider
i dunno younger pregnant girls i know seem to think its okay, its like an incentive to have kids, you get free money in the mail every month

omg wow, if there was a law to stop morons from voting you'd be out and i'd be happy.

:banghead: :nut: :dunno: :whipped: :guns:

[civicrider]

yes unfortunatly for the people who actualy need the social help, theres a milloin others abusing it, this is what pisses me off tghe most, lazy people who are taking my money who dont need it people who can go earn their own, the people who had a chance to goto school but didnt, the best idea would be if kids drop out of school or make choices to be poor should have to sign a contact saying they will not be aproved for welfare. that way that money can goto the people eho actualy need it.

[tirebob]

Originally posted by civicrider
there are groups in canada (BC) and the men and women agree that they should have multipul wives, then maybe the creep next door wants to marry his sister, who says he cant? then maybe the people who have fetishes for animals want to marry their pets, you think its okay to keep streching this line further? By the same token, are suggesting that society should never evolve with its people?

If so, we should still still be in tribes, or maybe taking slaves, or maybe not allowing "coloured folk" to vote, or hell, even women for that matter... Society evolves, and by laws of nature, if you don't evolve with it, extinction inevitably follows (I am of course speaking metaphorically before anyone goes nuts)...

Nobody could marry an animal anyways... it can't say yes and sign it's own name on the paper... :poosie:

[civicrider]

what about a parrot they can talk :rofl:

[l8braker]

I'm voting because I think someone new deserves a chance. Forget all the boogeyman talk, and heresay, I think he will do a very good job. It will be hard with the state-run media criticizing his every move, and the Liberal cheerleaders (who cannot even vote btw) pouncing on him. He's from the West and not a arrogant millionaire lawyer from Quebec, so he will listen to OUR needs.

I'd bet that if Harper gets in, we'll get a nice cheque from Bush for the Softwood $$ they stole from us. It's absurd to think that Harper will be the US lackey, he CANNOT afford to be seen as one, and he won't.

[Rav4Guy]

Originally posted by tictactoe2004
To cut the GST from 7% to 5% is totally pointless and would do us more harm than good.


2% decrease in gst is alot. That means out of everything you buy, you'll get to keep the difference multiply that by everyone and you'll have alot more money going back into businesses which in turn helps stimulate the economy.

i'm glad you're not in politics... if you were running this country and raising our taxes so you can pay for R&D... i'd bet alot of people would move out of the country.

[tirebob]

Originally posted by civicrider
what about a parrot they can talk :rofl: Hey now... If a guy could figure out a way to fuck a parrot... will that would be worth the price of admission just to laugh at him... :eek:

[max_boost]

Originally posted by roopi
I like this:
Harper saved his last campaign promise for his campaign-document rollout on Friday, and it was a doozy. Any individual or corporation will be able to buy and sell anything (real-estate, stocks, art, whatever) tax-free, as long as the proceeds are re-invested somewhere within 6 months.

The government will still receive taxes but it can be deferred until death if wanted. This allows people to re-invest anything they earn.

Liberals bannings Space Weapons? :rofl:
http://www.torontosun.com/Comment/Commentary/2006/01/14/1394422.html

Reducing the GST. Great idea.
Tax deferred growth. Even better.

Go PC
:thumbsup:

[Nissanaddict]

Originally posted by 5hift
\

You do realize that Harper is against a woman's right to choose. If a girl who mistakingly gets pregnant has the right to chose, she would save society the burden of welfare and other programs needed to support her and her kid. Where as if she has no choice but to have the kid, taxpayers would be raising her kid.

Bush is against it too, but it's still legal in the USA. This shit isn't easy to change...even with this Bush guy who you all think is a nazi.

[tirebob]

Originally posted by Nissanaddict


Bush is against it too, but it's still legal in the USA. This shit isn't easy to change...even with this Bush guy who you all think is a nazi. You are corect, but do not overlook the fact that Bush does not have this big majority or anything even close... If he did, do you not belive that he would be pushing his agenda further and faster than he is capable now because he is being held in check by the more left leaning parties?

Forgive me... this really is not supposed to be a discussion of US politics... I just happened to be married to an American and am continually discussing thier politics with all my in-laws so I can get sidetracked that direction fairly easily...

Also, I should add that my wifes family are almost all Texan's from Georges back yard. Her uncle is a colenel in the US army, and her aunt is hugely involved in the pro-life movement... Needless to say that some crazy discussions go down when we are all together... They can't quite figure out this "Canadian boy" who comes from a place that allows "commie medicine"... LOL!!! True to life quotes those ones... :rofl:

[Xtrema]

Originally posted by tictactoe2004
To cut the GST from 7% to 5% is totally pointless and would do us more harm than good.

2% would save me on average $600-$800/year.

2% would save typical new home buyer $6000.

My sis just got a Civic, 2% would meant a free spoiler or a set of average winter tires.

Any tax cut is good.

Now as for no tax for reinvested captial, I'm all for it but to a limit. If this is not implemented caregfully, it's a lot of revenue lost.

[Rav4Guy]

tax deferred taxes till death is a little bit too much of a deferral.

tax deferral/exemption on capital gains is asking for trouble. It would be abused like no tomorrow.

[tirebob]

Originally posted by Xtrema


2% would save me on average $600-$800/year.

2% would save typical new home buyer $6000.

My sis just got a Civic, 2% would meant a free spoiler or a set of average winter tires.

Any tax cut is good.

Now as for no tax for reinvested captial, I'm all for it but to a limit. If this is not implemented caregfully, it's a lot of revenue lost. Just remember... you are not getting 2 percent... you are only gonna get 1%... The extra 1% won't be phased in untill a long friggin time down the road, if it happens at all...

While tax breaks are always welcomed, the GST rebate benefits the biggests spenders the most... Not the poor people who have a very limited number of dollars to spend, and the majority of which is spent on items not coved by the GST anyways...

I would much rather see imcome tax reductions as this will benefit more people in a way that is more usable... Those moneys could be spent on rent, education, food, etc... Not just cars, spoilers, bigs screens etc...

[Nissanaddict]

So now I read the rest of the thread. A lot of people here have no bloody idea what they're talking about. From both sides. "Raise taxes to pay off the debt" lol....yup. That'd work like a charm. Business would thrive, and contribute to that....by that I mean they'd move to the states, unemployment would skyrocket, and this whole country would be ghost towns and bare land in 10 years.

Liberals banning handguns....FUCK that. They already instituted the gun registry, which was a good "idea" but the carrying out of said idea was a disaster, wasted a ton of money (probably a bunch going into liberal pockets, and then they PAID an agency to find out why.....I don't believe this has been revealed yet, so there's EVEN MORE money unaccounted for) Now that the gun registry is in place, we will know who has what gun (and hopefully the conservaties will stop selling this info, as there is a registered gun in my house, and suddenly we're getting adressed flyers about guns.....). Banning handguns will not have any effect whatsoever. People are not shooting people up with registered handguns....they buy them from a dude that is roaming this province free, because the US politely asked for him, and someone (not sure who...liberal judge most likely) isn't letting it happen. (not only that one person, but they are purchased illegally).

Listen, NONE of the other parties would be cool if Harper became a bush puppet, and there would be a non-confidence vote quicker than the Liberals can lie to everyone. That would be it. Let's all vote for some CHANGE. The only people logically voting Liberal should be prisoners.

[Rav4Guy]

1% off GST immediately and another 1% off within 4 years.

[eljefe]

Originally posted by Xtrema


2% would save me on average $600-$800/year.

2% would save typical new home buyer $6000.



:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: the first one percent we will see, but conservatives won't be around long enough to act on the second 1 percent so its really a moot point anyway

[tirebob]

Originally posted by Rav4Guy
1% off GST immediately and another 1% off within 5 years. Exactly... 5 YEARS... There is going to be another election before then... Can you say that they are going to be there again? Not only that, but if there is a minority government, do you honestly think that the other parties are going to allow this token effort to go through on the Tory budget? Of course not because they are all against this type of tax cut... The reality is that there is a very big possibilty that this tax cut will not happen even WITH a Conservative government...

[Alex_FORD]

Originally posted by Toma


So Liberals wasted money? What about the 400 BILLION Mulroney and the conservative pissed away?


Mulrooney's actions completely destroyed the PC party, and it's taken a long time for the conservatives to restructure and reform.

I think it's time for the Liberals to experience the same downfall, because they are guiltyI of pulling the same garbage.There's several ways to get a party to change, patting them on the back isn't one of them.

If the Liberals can restructure and reform before the next election, I will consider voting for them.

[Rav4Guy]

Originally posted by CMSbob
Exactly... 5 YEARS... There is going to be another election before then... Can you say that they are going to be there again? Not only that, but if there is a minority government, do you honestly think that the other parties are going to allow this token effort to go through on the Tory budget? Of course not because they are all against this type of tax cut... The reality is that there is a very big possibilty that this tax cut will not happen even WITH a Conservative government...

1% reduction in gst isn't enough for the next 4 years? It's not like they plan to reduce gst by 1% and 1% only in the next 4 years. This is only one minor point in their whole platform for taxation. If you have time, read up on it.

and btw, there won't be a minority government. :D

[ninjak84]

Harper's campaign is entirely based on how he patronizes 3 key political interests : Natives, Quebec, and the States.
It's a low-life strategy. Politicians in San Francisco do it with the gays.

Playing special interests is only 1 way that Conservatives want to integrate American ideals into our country. Among other things, he wants to ruin our economy and skyrocket our national debt. Just like the Americans.

[tirebob]

Originally posted by Rav4Guy


1% reduction in gst isn't enough for the next 4 years? It's not like they plan to reduce gst by 1% and 1% only in the next 4 years. This is only one minor point in their whole platform for taxation. If you have time, read up on it.

and btw, there won't be a minority government. :D I am making a point about the GST reduction that you brought up. I have read it thoroughly, and I understand much more about politics than you may give me credit for...

I am saying that the GST credit is a buy, plain and simple. The other things proposed do help people with tax relief, but it benefits people with money more than people without much money. I am saying there are more effective ways of cutting taxes to the benefit of the majority of the population who actually could use it in more ways...

[eljefe]

Originally posted by Rav4Guy


1% reduction in gst isn't enough for the next 4 years? It's not like they plan to reduce gst by 1% and 1% only in the next 4 years. This is only one minor point in their whole platform for taxation. If you have time, read up on it.

and btw, there won't be a minority government. :D

Unless things radically change in the next 24 hours a minority conservative government is going to be what it is. Even the most optimistic polls show the conservatives at least 8 to 10 seats short of a majority.

[Rav4Guy]

remember, we're not voting in stephen harper.. we are voting in his party through voting in our own constituency. How well has Alberta done with PC party? I'd say pretty darn good!

our political parties are nothing like the americans. our government is nothing like the americans. Our prime minister does not have absolute power like the americans. The reason why the americans are in the trouble that they are in because the president has the final say in almost everything. That may be great, but trusting the whole country to one person isn't.

ultimately, the canadian government is responsible to the citizens.

Stand up for Canada. Vote Conservatives. :D

[Rav4Guy]

Originally posted by CMSbob
I am making a point about the GST reduction that you brought up. I have read it thoroughly, and I understand much more about politics than you may give me credit for...

I am saying that the GST credit is a buy, plain and simple. The other things proposed do help people with tax relief, but it benefits people with money more than people without much money. I am saying there are more effective ways of cutting taxes to the benefit of the majority of the population who actually could use it in more ways...

helping the poor is more of a social issue than a business issue. no matter what the tax benefits are for the poor, how fast do you think they'll move from low income to midium income bracket?

Whether you are affluent in political system of canada or not, i'm just stating what I think. As of right now, all points stated in their platforms are buys. We won't know which ones they will keep, modify, or even discard until they are in office. As it turns out, the progressive conservative party has been really popular out here in western canada and I don't see anyone complaining about it.

[tictactoe2004]

Originally posted by Rav4Guy


2% decrease in gst is alot. That means out of everything you buy, you'll get to keep the difference multiply that by everyone and you'll have alot more money going back into businesses which in turn helps stimulate the economy.

i'm glad you're not in politics... if you were running this country and raising our taxes so you can pay for R&D... i'd bet alot of people would move out of the country.

2% decrease is going to do fuck all for the economy with the way gas prices, home heating, electricity and all the other things are rising.... 2% won't even compensate for half of that. Your not going to see any more money pumped into the economy if bills keep sky-rocketing like they are now.

Let me rephrase the tax portion of what I said, they wouldnt need to be raised to pay off the debt, but smarter spending to pay off all of canada's debts would see far more benifits then a 2% tax drop. Personally I would rather see my 2% used for things like cancer research, better roads, better education and many other things than "a spoiler on a civic" or a new set of tires. People tend to think on such a small scale sometimes it scares me...

[Rav4Guy]

Originally posted by tictactoe2004


2% decrease is going to do fuck all for the economy with the way gas prices, home heating, electricity and all the other things are rising.... 2% won't even compensate for half of that. Your not going to see any more money pumped into the economy if bills keep sky-rocketing like they are now.

Let me rephrase the tax portion of what I said, they wouldnt need to be raised to pay off the debt, but smarter spending to pay off all of canada's debts would see far more benifits then a 2% tax drop. Personally I would rather see my 2% used for things like cancer research, better roads, better education and many other things than "a spoiler on a civic" or a new set of tires. People tend to think on such a small scale sometimes it scares me...

you believe in supply-side economics while I believe in demand-side economics. You shouldn't be afraid that people think differently than you. Why is it that peolpe keep saying cancer research? what about the other diseases out there. What ISN'T underfunded in Canada. We can say, raise the taxes to pay off the debt or lower the taxes so we can feed our kids. The point of the multiple political system in Canada is for YOU, the voter, to choose what suits/appeals to you.

Political thoughts aside,

The point of the multiple political system in Canada is for YOU, the voter, to choose what suits/appeals to you. On January 23, 2006, VOTE between 7:30am - 7:30pm.

[tictactoe2004]

Originally posted by Rav4Guy


you believe in supply-side economics while I believe in demand-side economics. You shouldn't be afraid that people think differently than you.

im not afraid of people thinking differently than me, I just think some people think on way too small of a scale. example:


Originally posted by Xtrema


My sis just got a Civic, 2% would meant a free spoiler or a set of average winter tires.

Any tax cut is good.

[Rav4Guy]

Originally posted by tictactoe2004


im not afraid of people thinking differently than me, I just think some people think on way too small of a scale. example:



I know... and what's even scarier is that ALOT of people think like that but then again everyone will spend money on something that other people don't think is neccessary. I know I spend money on camera equipments that people would never do while some people wouldn't have a problem.

[tictactoe2004]

Originally posted by Rav4Guy
Why is it that peolpe keep saying cancer research? what about the other diseases out there. What ISN'T underfunded in Canada. We can say, raise the taxes to pay off the debt or lower the taxes so we can feed our kids.

also, cancer is just one of the first things that comes to mind when i think of a deadly disease. All diseases should be cured, no one deserves to die early and be taken from their family, friends, job and life because of something like cancer, aids, heart attacks or any other disease.

[tictactoe2004]

Originally posted by Rav4Guy


I know... and what's even scarier is that ALOT of people think like that but then again everyone will spend money on something that other people don't think is neccessary. I know I spend money on camera equipments that people would never do while some people wouldn't have a problem.

spending money on camera equipment is your choice and more than fine, if someone wants to spend all their money on a big sack of shit its fine by me, as long as they dont want to take the money out of something more important like our countries future.

[Xtrema]

Originally posted by tictactoe2004
Personally I would rather see my 2% used for things like cancer research, better roads, better education and many other things than "a spoiler on a civic" or a new set of tires. People tend to think on such a small scale sometimes it scares me...

1% is 1%. The cascading effects puts a lot of money into people to keep economy strong.

Does GST bring better cancer research? No, private sector does that. Better roads? No, Washington/Oregon has less or no sales tax and raods are 10X better. Better education? Fuck that, half of my $2400 properties tax goes to schools and I don't even have kids. The only thing kids learn is how to aggressively sell coupon books for school so they can win a prize. And post secondary loans for some students are blown on fancy sushi restaurants than actual books and tuitions. Some quality education.

Nobody in government is gonna be responsible with your money. Look at Bronco and his lackies with their taxpayer funded Ipods. ONLY YOU are responsible with your money. Why do I have to flip the bill for child care when I don't have kids nor want one? Why do I have to pay for school when nobody related to me goes to one? Why do I have to pay for medical cost when I'm healthy as a horse?

I do not want to pay for something I MAY use. I want to pay for something I AM using. If there is a risk of potential service I may need, I'll buy my own insurance to cover it. If I have extra $, I'll donate to worthy causes that I can research, understand the operation.

Canada is over taxed. Drop the GST and knock 10% off income tax would be ideal.

[Rav4Guy]

Originally posted by tictactoe2004


spending money on camera equipment is your choice and more than fine, if someone wants to spend all their money on a big sack of shit its fine by me, as long as they dont want to take the money out of something more important like our countries future.

the countries future is the people's future. The country means nothing without people willing to work and people willing to spend money.

wealthy country doesn't mean wealth citizens. Prosporous country doesn't mean that the people are doing great. Opportunistic country doesn't mean everyone is doing what they want to do. The basic principal and source of all growth is with its citizens. Allowing them to keep more of their hard-earned money promotes spending into private funded areas like Xtrema has stated or spend it on a better christmas gift for their son/daughter.

[HuMz]

It's time for a liberal change, Mulroney may have pissed away billions over a decade ago, but the conservatives aren't the same government, and Harper isn't Mulroney. And why did liberal's come in for the PC? because the people of Canada wanted a change, now after over a decade of liberal power and corruption and billions of dollars wasted and sponsership scandals, I feel as well majority of Canadian's feel they've blown there chance and can't really be trusted with our money.

Besides all the liberal corruption, my reasons for voting conservative are:

1. Cutting the GST to 5% - it may not have any effect on the economy, but its more money in my pocket, and more money in my pocket will be used to purchase more goods.

2. Coming up with a realistic enviromental plan that we as Canadians can achieve....not a plan that has been proven that it's outlines will never be met.

3. Developing acceptable waiting times, and if there not met the person in need will be able to recieve there operation in the private system (bill covered by the public system), other provinces, or the US if need be.

4. A federal accountablity act which will help watch where our money goes and how or government operates.
5. Harper will do a better job with the software lumber dispute.

6. Child care allowence, not every parent sends there children to daycare, which is a major flaw of the liberal program.

7. Get rid of the federal Gun registry - its amazing how ineffective and how many billions of tax payers dollars this useless law has created.

8. More money for defence and Canadian Forces...I have several friends in the army and while they are the best trained army in the world, they are vastly underfunded in there programs and equiptment.

9. The biggest problem area of our future workforce...trades, they will offere 1000 trades apprenticship grants, and 500 off for tools.

10.Tougher penalties for criminals.


I agree with many liberal polices as well, in fact I don't see much of a differnce in the outcome of what Canada will be like come the next election between the 2 parties, but I do feel my hard earned money will be trusted in somewhat better hands versus giving my money to a government who has proved they can't be trusted.

Liberal supporters make the arguement that the PC's wasted billions as did the liberals, the major differnce is...the conservatives are a different party then the PC's were a decade ago, where as the liberals (exception of the few spondership guys at the top who were fired) are still the same party...lets not forget who the finance minister during the Chretiean government either.

[Xtrema]

Originally posted by tictactoe2004
im not afraid of people thinking differently than me, I just think some people think on way too small of a scale. example:


How's this for big scale:

http://www.cbc.ca/news/background/auditorgeneral/report2004.html

I wonder if we cure cancer by now if the money actually goes there. Heck, my $100 donation to Breast Cancer foundation is probably doing a hack a lot better job than my taxes in politician's pockets. My sorta foolish, $100 lottery tickets probably more directly in helping health service in my area.

People who put blind trust in government spending is just naive.

[tictactoe2004]

Originally posted by Xtrema


How's this for big scale:

http://www.cbc.ca/news/background/auditorgeneral/report2004.html

I wonder if we cure cancer by now if the money actually goes there. Heck, my $100 donation to Breast Cancer foundation is probably doing a hack a lot better job than my taxes in politician's pockets. My sorta foolish, $100 lottery tickets probably more directly in helping health service in my area.

People who put blind trust in government spending is just naive.

I don't trust the goverment at all... thats the biggest problem here, they're all a bunch of fools... so it comes down to the lesser of the evils.


Originally posted by tictactoe2004
Let me rephrase the tax portion of what I said, they wouldnt need to be raised to pay off the debt, but smarter spending to pay off all of canada's debts would see far more benifits then a 2% tax drop. Personally I would rather see my 2% used for things like cancer research, better roads, better education and many other things than "a spoiler on a civic" or a new set of tires. People tend to think on such a small scale sometimes it scares me...