Traffic Cop fined $100.00

[sweetchariot]

Jan 25 2006
Officer pleads guilty to school bus crash



A Red Deer traffic officer has pleaded guilty to an equipment violation after his cruiser collided with a school bus and a private vehicle last spring.
Kevin William Green, a special constable in the city’s traffic enforcement unit, pleaded guilty on Tuesday to failing to maintain anti-locking brakes under the Vehicle Equipment Regulation Act.
Green was fined $100 by traffic commissioner Gerard O’Neill of St. Albert, who was brought in to Red Deer traffic court.
The Crown was prepared to call eight witnesses.
Green, 32, who was to defend himself, was charged with going through a red light on April 18 before changing his plea on Tuesday.
None of the 28 students on the bus were injured in the accident at the 43rd Street and Gaetz Avenue intersection.
Two doctors from the nearby Red Deer Regional Hospital Centre were also involved in the morning collision.
Crown prosecutor Paul Morigeau told court that Green was driving south on Gaetz Avenue.
Morigeau said studies indicate that Green was travelling about 30 km/h when the collision occurred.
The bus was heading east on 43rd Street and a doctor’s SUV was driving west.
Both the bus, which carried Red Deer Catholic School students, and the SUV were in the intersection on a green light.
Green, who suffered minor injuries, was driving a specially ordered Crown Victoria that had been on the road for only two weeks.
Mechanical tests were performed by the City of Red Deer and an independent company.
Dan Doyle, Green’s supervisor with the traffic unit, said later that the City of Red Deer dealt internally with Green some time ago.
He couldn’t discuss the outcome.
Green remains on active duty.

[googe]

what the hell? you get a fine for not having ABS?

[tapout]

:confused: thats strange

[GQBalla]

that is pretty strange....

[Tomaz]

WTF mates? Obviosly he doesn't know how to drive in winter?????

[Zero102]

He gets a fine for his vehicle's braking system not being in proper working order. His car was equipped with ABS, and it did not work. There is a good chance it contributed to this collision, and it is his responsibility to make sure his vehicle is safe before he drives it. Where is all this confusion coming from?

[Toma]

Originally posted by Zero102
He gets a fine for his vehicle's braking system not being in proper working order. His car was equipped with ABS, and it did not work. There is a good chance it contributed to this collision, and it is his responsibility to make sure his vehicle is safe before he drives it. Where is all this confusion coming from?
[cough]bullshiit[cough]
Coverup.... easier to blame the brakes then the cop....

30k/hour at impact, running a red.... BS :bullshit:

Sounds like SHOULDA been a dangerous driving, running a red, and whatever else, and he pulled the ABS fuse to get away with it....

Since when do we rely on ABS? Aren't cops taught to drive, threshhold brake etc??

Stinks.

[Nissanaddict]

I smell a steaming pile of shit there. Equipment violation my ass. He ran a red light!

[the_fornicator]

Originally posted by Nissanaddict
I smell a steaming pile of shit there. Equipment violation my ass. He ran a red light!

yep

ABS doesn't help you stop any sooner. if anything it takes a longer distance for you to stop with ABS.

[Zero102]

Not argueing that he didn't run the red, but if he locked up all his wheels trying to stop, ABS would have made things better, and it is his problem for not maintaining his braking system.

That said, my money is on the fact that he either ran a red light, or was going far too fast for conditions.

[Nissanaddict]

There is a funny little thing in every ABS equipped car called the ABS light. If it's on, your ABS isn't functional. If you're not a complete fucking idiot you should notice this. That is considered a change in conditions, as your car will be acting differently. You should adjust your driving accordingly to any change in conditions. I understand black ice etc. where sometimes you can't predict what happens. Anyone driving an older car, drives without ABS, and proves that it is indeed possible to drive just fine.

[fast95pony]

One set of rules for us, and one for them :thumbsdow .

It stinks alright ! :banghead:

[88CRXGUY]

Something isnt right If that was anyone of us, we would be charged and got more than just a 100 dollar ticket. Welcome to the canadian justice system..Its bs.

[StupidWade]

Yep. Load of crap.

I wonder if it has anything to do with the fact that TWO doctors and a BUS FULL OF KIDS were also involved in the accident.

I guarantee that if he would have ran a red light and crashed into you or me, there would have been some way that he would have avoided being charged altogether.

And to all you twits who believe that his antilock brakes weren't working, the car was TWO WEEKS old. Even Ford's reliability isn't THAT bad.

[thetrousertrout]

Originally posted by the_fornicator


yep

ABS doesn't help you stop any sooner. if anything it takes a longer distance for you to stop with ABS.

you are back-asswards there.

ABS will always top you faster, and with more control.

lots of road tests have shown this.

[Toma]

Originally posted by thetrousertrout


you are back-asswards there.

ABS will always top you faster, and with more control.

lots of road tests have shown this.

you on crack?

[Tomaz]

^^^ except in dry, perfect conditions, where it adds up to 50ft at highway speed to your braking disttance

[mx73someday]

I hate how preventative traffic tickets, like speeding are so expensive, meanwhile the worst thing you can possibly do: CRASH! ...is only worth $100.

They have to start handing out more severe penalties for crashing. Especially when it has the potential to inconvenience hundreds of other drivers. They should also be fined for the call to the police and fire to go down there and clean it up....tax payers shouldn't have to pay for an individual's stupidity.

[seer_claw]

Originally posted by Toma


you on crack?

Nope he's right. When you skid the frictional force is less than threshold friction. Simple physics has shown this. It takes more force to get two surfaces to start sliding than it does to keep them sliding. Thats why ABS is now on most cars.

[Toma]

Originally posted by seer_claw


Nope he's right. When you skid the frictional force is less than threshold friction. Simple physics has shown this. It takes more force to get two surfaces to start sliding than it does to keep them sliding. Thats why ABS is now on most cars.
NOW you are on crack too...

who said anything about skidding. It's called threshhold braking, every decent driver knows how to do it, cops are taught as part of training.

You will NO WAY no how stop faster with ABS if you are not a complete idiot.

[zhulander]

Seems like some people need to learn ABS fundamentals:
http://www.mucda.mb.ca/aboutabs.htm



Remember that ABS brakes do not help you stop quicker under most conditions. They do help you maintain steering control during braking so you can veer around obstacles.


Biggest :bullshit: ever, equipment violation on a 2 week old car. $100 fine only as well, aren't muffler violations like $130?

[Khyron]

A pro can thresh-hold brake and stop a few meters shorter than ABS on sheet ice, but for the average driver (or the pro's wife) the ABS is better.

Pumping non-abs brakes is only marginally better than just locking them up in the first place.

Pumping ABS brakes is fucking retarded, but my brother in law insists it's the best. :whipped:

The biggest difference? Winter tires. Also, the heavier your vehicle the longer it will take to stop. So don't tailgate a Jetta in your F-150!

As to original topic, cop should have been cited for running a red. ABS was not to blame.

Khyron

[GTS Jeff]

If you guys want to discuss this with the "special" constable, here are his email addresses:

[email protected]

[email protected]

[Zero102]

You can't effectively thresh-hold brake in a car with poor brake balance either. Even in a poorly balanced car, ABS can attain almost the same results (in optimal conditions) as thresh-hold braking in a perfectly balanced car. So, that said, in the general case, ABS is far better.

[95EagleAWD]

Braking distance for a 2000 Dodge Viper GTS Coupe, 60 mph to 0: 156 feet

Braking distance for a 2001 Dodge Viper GTS Coupe, 60 mph to 0: 115 feet

The only difference between these cars was the addition of ABS.

Quote from the '99 Road test: "Lack of ABS on this car hurt stopping numbers, but anti-lock will be standard on all 2001 Vipers."

[Nissanaddict]

Who CARES if the ABS was working? That's like blaming the weather. You're supposed to adjust your driving to the weather, or ANY conditions. He was in a condition in which his ABS was fucked up. Pure bull.

[Alex_FORD]

Originally posted by Nissanaddict
Who CARES if the ABS was working? That's like blaming the weather. You're supposed to adjust your driving to the weather, or ANY conditions. He was in a condition in which his ABS was fucked up. Pure bull.

I agree. ABS or not, it is still his responsibility to drive according to road conditions.

I guess it is better for the officer's record to somehow blame the car :rolleyes:

[Goblin]

^ Wow you guys are thinking too hard.

This is obviously a way to pay for the extra million they have to make :thumbsup:

[DayGlow]

Interesting, you'll give each other a big circle jerk when you use the system to beat a ticket, yet when someone else does the exact same thing it isn't good anymore?

[GTS Jeff]

Originally posted by DayGlow
Yet when someone else does the exact same thing it isn't good anymore? That someone else is a member of traffic enforcement, they are the system, so it's ironic and hypocritical when they fight bs tickets.

This is also why the case is on the news...

[Khyron]

Originally posted by DayGlow
Interesting, you'll give each other a big circle jerk when you use the system to beat a ticket, yet when someone else does the exact same thing it isn't good anymore?

And I have to say, that if someone here said they slid through a red light and hit a bus full of kids, there wouldn't be much support for that person slipping out of it by blaming his antilock brakes.

There's a big difference between a "BS enlarged muffler that is still quieter than stock" ticket and mowing down kids because you lack basic driving skills.

Khyron

[DayGlow]

Well concidering the person involed hasn't posted his big sob story on the board completely slanted to his side it's hard to judge what exactly happenned. If the crown is willing to deal down from running a red light to that there had to be some midigating circomstances.

Not being there, but from the speed involved it sounds like he was sliding through the stop into the intersection probably on ice/snow. Then again, like I said, there are little detail in the posting on the acual incident. At the same time I highly doubt he lined the bus up in his sights and gunned it.

[GTS Jeff]

Originally posted by DayGlow
Well concidering the person involed hasn't posted his big sob story on the board completely slanted to his side it's hard to judge what exactly happenned. If the crown is willing to deal down from running a red light to that there had to be some midigating circomstances.

Not being there, but from the speed involved it sounds like he was sliding through the stop into the intersection probably on ice/snow. Then again, like I said, there are little detail in the posting on the acual incident. At the same time I highly doubt he lined the bus up in his sights and gunned it. Mitigating circumstances = he's a copper.

[DayGlow]

so again, when other people use the system to their advantage you guys give each other hi fives and celibrate sticking it to the man. A traffic enforcement officer uses the same system to do the same thing and people get all pissy. Nice double standard. It's the same system.

Also it says he was delt with internally. Unless you know what punishment was introduced there you have no idea what you are talking about. As far as we know he could have been docked pay to even being dropped a pay grade or two. Who knows from this article.

Of course you apply your bias and stereotyping and say 'well he's a copper, so he got nothing' which is based on zero fact and supported with zero evidence.

[Khyron]

I don't think there's a double standard. Most people on this board don't support drunk drivers (see Mad$ella threads) nor running red lights. The supportive "getting out of ticket threads" are usually either speeding on highways or through fishing holes, or tint/exhaust/stereo tickets. Not injury accidents.

And cops have extensive driving courses, so it's even worse for him than a normal driver. If the guy did get dealt with, they should say what happened to him. Because if all you say is "he was dealt with appropriately" that translates into nothing. We went through this when an officer was involved in a drunk driving accident and it came out that the dept tried to cover it up. People are still very aware of the blue wall.

I mean if he was fighting a 20 over speeding ticket, there'd be support. Except that all an officer has to say is "I'm a member" and they get out of those, so we don't see those sorts of threads. :P

Khyron

[DayGlow]

was this an injury accident?

Don't know the original story, but from this article it was a aprox 30km/hr collision w/a school bus with no injuries to anyone onboard.

Did he intentionally run a red light? Or did he slide into the intersection?

It seems you are assuming the worse just because the person wears an uniform. That is the double standard I'm speaking of.

10 to 1 if someone on this board came and posted about a BS ticket for running a red light because he slide on black ice into an intersection and had a small non-injury collision people would be agreeing with him that he was ticketed for no reason and he should fight it.

Also it's not like it's excusive to cops to get a deal on a ticket. This summer I wrote a guy careless driving because he slammed his 5 ton cube van into a line of stopped cars at red light. They were stopped for over a minute for a red and it was obvious the driver wasn't paying any attention to the road ahead. It got delt down to some $115 charge. No idea what or why because I just recieved the notice that the case was done. Here's a guy that caused a 5 car collision at a red light. No one was hurt and he got a deal. He wasn't anyone special.

So what would be approprate here? Should he lose his job? Unless we know what the internal disiipline was, we are assuming he got off scott free. I highly doubt it. Management doesn't like these stories and would make sure people would understand not to do it again.

[GTS Jeff]

Originally posted by DayGlow
10 to 1 if someone on this board came and posted about a BS ticket for running a red light because he slide on black ice into an intersection and had a small non-injury collision people would be agreeing with him that he was ticketed for no reason and he should fight it. Now who's making assumptions? ;)

[googe]

haha, i dont think dayglow reads beyond that much. if someone posted that they slid into an intersection it would be a bunch of "STFU NOOB LEARN 2 DRIVE THEN", "U DESERVE IT", "U SCREWED UP, BE A MAN AND PAY UP", etc

[DayGlow]

Actually if I remember correctly there was one from either last winter or the year before where someone did just that (no collision, just went through the sign). He got a ticket for running a stop sign because he slid on ice and everyone had a grand ol' time saying how the cop was being a jerk, didn't take the conditions into concideration, etc.

Also the TSA charge is seperate from the civil side. Anyone involved in the collision can sue for whatever reason and the TSA charge/coniviction or lack there of has no effect on the civil case. This guy probably is far from getting off lightly.

[Khyron]

I still don't think a red light runner would get much sympathy, but who knows.

How about this though - suppose an trucker is having a bad day so he waves a pistol around in the front yard, fires a few shots in the air then gives up. Compare that to what would happen if a cop did the exact same thing. There'd be far more press, more investigations and more reprecussions for the officer. That's not a double standard - that's being held to a higher standard.

Same thing if a network admin gets a computer virus - that's more embarassing/serious than some computer novice simply because they should know better.

Khyron

[eljefe]

good points

[Toma]

so there was black ice on April 18th? (springtime??)

[googe]

Originally posted by Toma
so there was black ice on April 18th? (springtime??)

wouldnt doubt it. we usually get snow even up to may long weekend around here.

[Toma]

I dunno... that is the only relevant consideration. Snow in spring hardly ever leads to black ice.... someone should find out.

And id it had snowed, ticket should have been for at least driving too fast for conditions.

[fast95pony]

Weather for April 18 , 2005


Looks like quite a warm and pleasant day...
Last precip was April 14 . The temperature was above freezing for the previous 3 days.

http://www.climate.weatheroffice.ec.gc.ca/climateData/hourlydata_e.html?timeframe=1&Prov=AB&StationID=2134&Year=2005&Month=4&Day=18

[sweetchariot]

Mar 04 2006
City will not appeal fine levied against special constable



Legal representatives for the City of Red Deer will not appeal the fine given to a special constable who hit a school bus with his vehicle.
In January, special constable Kevin William Green pleaded guilty to failing to maintain anti-lock brakes on his traffic enforcement vehicle under the Equipment Regulation Act.
Green, who had originally planned to defend himself on a charge of going through a red light, was fined $100 for hitting a school bus in April 2004.
Twenty-eight students were aboard, but there were no injuries.
After Green’s court appearance, city officials denied the virtually new Crown Victoria had mechanical problems.
They said it had been checked twice and had only been on the road for two weeks.
While appealing the fine was an option, the city’s Community Services Manager Colleen Jensen said the municipality has decided to accept the court ruling.

[sweetchariot]

??? just wondering how they could/can appeal

[skidmark]

ABS will typically stop you better on wet or dry pavement and ice. Otherwise, expect an extended stopping distance as a trade off for being allowed to steer.

Consider that there is only so much friction in the tire/pavement interface. No steering = 100% availability for braking. Add steering input and braking friction is reduced, extending stopping distance as well. However, being able to steer and brake in combination might enable you to avoid the problem.

[slyguy]

FTP! FTP! FTP!!

[googe]

haha, what a load of crap.

isnt officer green the guy on trailer park boys? :D