Another Point of View

[Gorilla]

Lets Discuss...Im not a racist or discriminate against anyone besides hockey players who wear visors.

[handsomebassman]

I think (in regards to the muhammed cartoon), that the muslims should grow a sence of humor. People make fun of canada and canadians all the time, and do you see me givin half a shit? no.


I liked the comic strip though, lol.

Same with the USA. America is always being made fun of by people as the fattest most ignorant and war loving country on the planet.....oh wait, its cause they are.:clap:



To the americans on this site, i was just kidding. Please dont shoot/bomb me!:angel:

[Toms-SC]

This just in!

Rioting in the states!
People firing guns in the air!
Buildings on fire!
People dead!

NOT

We DONT CARE whats so hard to understand here.

[knowtheledge]

Originally posted by Toms-SC
This just in!

Rioting in the states!
People firing guns in the air!
Buildings on fire!
People dead!

NOT

We DONT CARE whats so hard to understand here.

Wow this is news to me riots in the states? people firing guns? buildings on fire? people dead? You guys dont care that may be but whats also true is its the most violent country, in that sense, and I could be mistaken doesnt it have the highest murder rate in the world? Just because alot of people in the states dont wear turbans and scream god is .... whatever doesnt make them more civilised, death is death, murder is muder. Oh and members of my family are American and agree the States is as fucked up as any other place in the world, so dont take it personal. I just hate how people think its wrong if 'they' do it but its fashionable when 'we 'do it.

[handsomebassman]

Originally posted by knowtheledge


Wow this is news to me riots in the states? people firing guns? buildings on fire? people dead? You guys dont care that may be but whats also true is its the most violent country, in that sense, and I could be mistaken doesnt it have the highest murder rate in the world? Just because alot of people in the states dont wear turbans and scream god is .... whatever doesnt make them more civilised, death is death, murder is muder. Oh and members of my family are American and agree the States is as fucked up as any other place in the world, so dont take it personal. I just hate how people think its wrong if 'they' do it but its fashionable when 'we 'do it. :werd:

Well said.

[Lo)2enz0]

Personally i think everything the states stands for is bull shit. like said above they do have some of the worst problems when it comes to murder. I just think that maybe the leader of there "great nation" just likes to play risk a bit to much. Look at what is happening down there, instead of trying to make the states a better way to live for everyone they are using there resources to destroy other nations because they are the definition of the world police. I am just sick of hearing about privatization down in the usa which is what brings in poverty. health care shouldn't be a expense. i could rant on and on about the usa because I am just sick of them.

[Lex350]

Originally posted by Lo)2enz0
Personally i think everything the states stands for is bull shit. like said above they do have some of the worst problems when it comes to murder. I just think that maybe the leader of there "great nation" just likes to play risk a bit to much. Look at what is happening down there, instead of trying to make the states a better way to live for everyone they are using there resources to destroy other nations because they are the definition of the world police. I am just sick of hearing about privatization down in the usa which is what brings in poverty. health care shouldn't be a expense. i could rant on and on about the usa because I am just sick of them.


Don’t confuse a government and it people. Just like our messed up political system, the system is faultily and the wrong people sometimes get elected.

I really hate American foreign policy...its hypocritical...that said, I don't hate the American people. Like with so many governments around the world, once a government comes to power, it’s had to make them accountable or to get rid of them.

[Lo)2enz0]

would you count destroying other countrys to be enough to get rid of them? like common, what has been achieved since 9/11. to me, nothing.

[Gorilla]

Originally posted by rotten42



Don’t confuse a government and it people. Just like our messed up political system, the system is faultily and the wrong people sometimes get elected.

I really hate American foreign policy...its hypocritical...that said, I don't hate the American people. Like with so many governments around the world, once a government comes to power, it’s had to make them accountable or to get rid of them.


Its called Democracy for a reason, wrong people dont get elected. People have the "Right" to choose who they want in the government in turn the government is the people.

[steelo]

Communist.

[Lex350]

Originally posted by Gorilla



Its called Democracy for a reason, wrong people dont get elected. People have the "Right" to choose who they want in the government in turn the government is the people.


Not true....the popular vote does not always win the election in either Canada or the US....this happens when you have regional representation. I don’t think there is such a thing as a true democracy. The past elections in both the US and Canada demonstrate that the government is not always the people. Look at Quebec. Does that reflect the feeling of the country as a whole to have so many separatists elected to the government? How about the fact that the Conservatives were shut out of Vancouver, Toronto and Montreal?

I also don't think it's possible to paint all the people of one nation with one brush. Canada is very diverse across the country....so is the U.S.

[Tyler883]

Originally posted by knowtheledge

, and I could be mistaken doesnt it have the highest murder rate in the world?

Yes, the states are probably 1st place on overal murder rates.

But when it comes to "murder rate associated to offensive cartoons" I think the states are pulling a distant second place.

[turbotrip]

arent they also first in "number of people killed by a country"?

[eljefe]

Originally posted by Tyler883


Yes, the states are probably 1st place on overal murder rates.

But when it comes to "murder rate associated to offensive cartoons" I think the states are pulling a distant second place.

Believe it or not, not even close, not even in the top 10


TOP TEN COUNTRIES FOR HOMICIDE, 2003 COUNTRY PER 100,000
(1) Columbia 63
(2) South Africa 51
(3) Jamaica 32
(4) Venezuela 32
(5) Russia 19
(6) Mexico 13
(7) Lithuania 10
(8) Estonia 10
(9) Latvia 10
(10) Belarus 9



for the record the U.S had a murder rate of 5.7 in 2003
Canada a murder rate of 1.7 in 2003

[AD_Runner]

Originally posted by rotten42




I also don't think it's possible to paint all the people of one nation with one brush. Canada is very diverse across the country....so is the U.S.

Nicely said ---- But for some reason, people just can't accept that as the TRUTH --- People have to run their mouths and keep taunting every issue there is -- trying to cause unnecessary problems -- Like there is not enough problems to worry about all ready ---- IMO --

[Gorilla]

news.

[Xtrema]

While muslims are still complaining about this, none of them are exterminating the extremist groups which is the source of the problem. The voice of reason is drowned by the voice of rage.

Why the muslims don't understand that extremist must be muffled before their religon/country/government can gain respect.

[SLR]

Originally posted by knowtheledge


Wow this is news to me riots in the states? people firing guns? buildings on fire? people dead? You guys dont care that may be but whats also true is its the most violent country, in that sense, and I could be mistaken doesnt it have the highest murder rate in the world? Just because alot of people in the states dont wear turbans and scream god is .... whatever doesnt make them more civilised, death is death, murder is muder. Oh and members of my family are American and agree the States is as fucked up as any other place in the world, so dont take it personal. I just hate how people think its wrong if 'they' do it but its fashionable when 'we 'do it. Americans are far more civilized and quality of life is hand over fist better than the sand huts in Iran.

You say their murder rate is higher? Are you sure you arent creatively leaving out the government executions of their people? There has been 2 lethal judgements against people that committed murder in the US this year.... How many women are killed by their government over in the middle east?

Your anti-american reddddddrick is very typical.

[ZEDGE]

Yay.. more American bashing on Beyond...

Maybe you should be bashing Iran.. they voted in a maniac who wants to wipe Isreal off the face of the map and says the holocoust never happened. :rolleyes:

And considering there are 300 million people in the USA thier murder rate is not that bad at all.

Considering the USA has opened its borders and welcomed people from all over the world.. and these backwards fucks in the middle east are hanging rape victims??? WTF

What a bunch of a-holes round here. :thumbsdow

[Lex350]

Originally posted by Gorilla
news.


can't debate that...put then again we had a certain French guy represent us on the world's stage for years looking like an idiot also


J.C. and I don't mean Jesus Christ.

[SLR]

Originally posted by rotten42



J.C. and I don't mean Jesus Christ. :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek:

HOW DARE YOU!!!!!! :rofl:

[Lex350]

Originally posted by SLR
:eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek:

HOW DARE YOU!!!!!! :rofl:


I'm sure Chretien thought he was Christ.:D

[eljefe]

Originally posted by ZEDGE
Yay.. more American bashing on Beyond...


And considering there are 300 million people in the USA thier murder rate is not that bad at all.



Although the murder rate for the U.S falls below the top 20 for countries of the world it leads the pack for "Developed" nations. Population has a negligable impact in murder rates as it is the number of murders per 100,000 people.


Murder occurrences vary wildly among different countries and societies. In the Western world, murder rates in most countries have declined significantly during 20th century and are now between 1-3 cases per 100,000 people per year. Murder rates of Japan and Iceland are among the lowest in the world, around 0.5; rate of United States is highest among all developed countries, at 5.5 (2004). On the other hand, developing countries often have rates of 10-100 murders per 100,000 people per year.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder

[Tomaz]

This entire world is just plain fucked up! I understand the reasoning for America to go into the Middle east, but fuck, it's been a long time now. I think they can leave. Couldn't thier resourses be put to better use? :dunno:

[ZEDGE]

Originally posted by Tomaz
This entire world is just plain fucked up! I understand the reasoning for America to go into the Middle east, but fuck, it's been a long time now. I think they can leave. Couldn't thier resourses be put to better use? :dunno:

They are going to be there for a "long" time.

If they leave now, every two bit cleric will want to take power and there will be all out war. These people have no grasp of freedom and democracy, they need to be ruled with an iron fist. Should have let them rot to begin with..

[eljefe]

Originally posted by ZEDGE


Should have let them rot to begin with..

You are quite the humanitarian buddy, you think the Iraqi or Afghanistan people should "rot" ??? Your as ignorant as the extremists over there are if you really believe that...(imo)

[Toms-SC]

Originally posted by Gorilla
Lets Discuss...Im not a racist or discriminate against anyone besides hockey players who wear visors.

http://www.sfgate.com/blogs/images/sfgate/worldviews/2006/02/01/Cartoon%201.jpg

[Lex350]

Originally posted by ZEDGE


They are going to be there for a "long" time.

If they leave now, every two bit cleric will want to take power and there will be all out war. These people have no grasp of freedom and democracy, they need to be ruled with an iron fist. Should have let them rot to begin with..


huh?...rule them with an iron fist so that they can show them democracy.:dunno:

[ZEDGE]

Originally posted by eljefe


You are quite the humanitarian buddy, you think the Iraqi or Afghanistan people should "rot" ??? Your as ignorant as the extremists over there are if you really believe that...(imo)

:dunno:

They seem pretty happy over thier living in oppression and ruled by two bit dictators watching their people die. Should have just let them stay that way. Maybe "rot" was not a good choice of words but they are not worth risking our lives for. How many thousands of US and allied troops have died there? For what? They dont want our help, fuck them. Cant put it any clearer than than.


Originally posted by rotten42



huh?...rule them with an iron fist so that they can show them democracy.:dunno:

Should have left Saddam ruling them with an iron fist. They have no idea how to live in a democracy.

[ZEDGE]

This is an interesting read. Take it how you will.


Subject: Israeli "Apartheid"




Charlotte Kates is the pro-terrorist law student at Rutgers Univ. who organized the pro-Palestinian conference and defends suicide bombers.



(The following letter was written to the President of Rutgers State University by an Israeli citizen after reading Kates' published comments on the Israeli/Palestinian situation!).



Dear Ms. Kates,



I think you are a remarkable woman. You are neither an Arab nor a Jew, you do not study the Middle East, or any associated subject, and correct me if I am wrong, you have never visited this region. Therefore I am somewhat astounded at your expertise and to your comments on Israel being an "Apartheid" state.



I have lived in Israel for many years and I would be delighted to take you on a little virtual tour of our country. Let me first give you a couple of minor points. Israel occupies 0.1% of the landmass of the Middle East and it is the only Jewish state, not only in this region, surrounded as we are by 22 Arab states, but in the world.



Let us begin your virtual tour! You have already been through immigration at Tel Aviv Airport with your boyfriend, whom we shall call Ken.



You will have filled out a visitors form. This form will not ask you, as it will in many of the countries that surround us, what is your religion, and it will certainly not ask you, as they do in Saudi Arabia, for a "certificate of religion".



The day is Sunday! You will want to attend a church service. No problem in the Apartheid State of Israel. We tolerate and freely allow worship for all religions. This is more than can be said for nearly all of the surrounding 22 Arab nations. In fact many of them would not even have a single church, let alone a synagogue.



After a lovely service you and Ken would head for a leisurely lunch, maybe at one of the lovely beachfront restaurants in Tel Aviv. You would most likely have returned to your hotel and put on a very casual outfit, as befitting the very hot Israeli summers. This could be a pair of shorts and a tight fitting skimpy t-shirt. No problem in the Apartheid state of Israel. In Israel we allow freedom of dress, especially for women, who are not made to wear bulky long robes, a veil to cover their face, and, wouldn't it be a pity if you had to cover that lovely coiffed hairdo, as you would probably have to in most of the surrounding 22 Arab states.



During lunch Ken could gaze lovingly into your heavily painted eyes, complete with a good application of black mascara. He would be free to lean across and kiss your lips, finely painted with lip liner, 2 shades of burgundy lipstick and gloss. People would probably think you were in love, especially as Ken has proudly displayed a good wine on the table. Public displays of affection and consuming alcohol in the Apartheid state of Israel is nothing unusual and its not even scorned upon. That's more than can be said for most of the surrounding 22 Arab states, where your glossy lips would be considered whorish and alcohol is forbidden.



But, Ken being a little flirtatious pinched one of the young waitresses while you went to reapply your lipstick. It was harmless and luckily for the young girl in the Apartheid State of Israel, her father and 6 brothers will not take her to the family pool in the evening and drown her, as they would in some of the surrounding 22 Arab states.



After lunch you and Ken drive around. You are even allowed to drive. It is not forbidden in Israel. You stumble across a kindergarten. The children are running around and enjoying themselves. They are not made to sit for hours reciting by rote, pages from religious books. Their games are in the sand pit or on the swings. They are not infested with hate or told the only honor to their lives will be in death. In the Apartheid state of Israel we rejoice in life and living. We do not promote murder and violence by brainwashing our children with hatred, as they do in many of the surrounding 22 Arab states.



By the end of the day you and Ken come across a political rally. Many thousands have turned up. In the Apartheid State of Israel, all the citizens, men, women, Jew, Arab and Christian are free to vote. We are allowed to openly criticize the government and our media, including the T. V. and newspapers, offer, without prejudice, a choice of opinions. Every person has the right to openly agree or condemn the government. This can certainly not be said for most of the surrounding 22 Arab states, ruled as they are by oppressive dictators, where any dissent is met with dire consequences.



Of course, most of the 22 surrounding Arab countries can't offer you a good old-fashioned homicide bombing as a tourist attraction. This can only happen in the apartheid state of Israel, surrounded as we are, by so many hostile countries, determined, as you are to wipe us of the face of the earth. Where else can you get on a crowded bus, often packed with children and come face to face with some poor, plighted Palestinian ghoul who thinks life isn't very jolly, having been fed and brainwashed by evil organizations like Hamas, to believe that the only way forward is to murder innocent people. This dehumanized creature will have been fed on a 24/7 diet of lies and hate incitement, he will have been coaxed with the reward of 72 vestal virgins waiting for him in Paradise. His demonic mother will be dancing in the street waving her $10,000 check.



While Israelis are scraping their dead children off the sidewalks, the Palestinians will be lighting fireworks and dancing in the street, to honor this mass murderer as a hero, often to their children who are being systematically nurtured to be the next generation of mass murderers.



The Apartheid state of Israel. Forgive me Ms. Kates but you seem somewhat confused as to the meaning of the word. It usually refers to segregation. Its funny isn't it that a large section of the Jews who live in this apartheid state had to flee for their lives from nearly all of the surrounding 22 Arab states. These countries not only have no tolerance for Jews, they refer to anyone who is not a Moslem as an Infidel and an enemy. I find it somewhat curious that you find nothing "apartheid" about these countries.



Maybe you should do a project on how many churches there are in Saudi Arabia. Let me help you - there are none. It would not be tolerated.



I am proud to live in this Apartheid State. In 55 years we have become one of the most technologically advanced nations on this planet, with many innovations that have made Israel a true leader in many fields. It is tragic that we have to live in a region that feels threatened by our achievements. Israel is not an apartheid state and it is appalling that a so-called intelligent and thinking person like you can go around finding feeble excuses for mass murder. Ms. Kates there is no justification, in any society, for getting on a crowded bus, often packed with children, detonating an explosive belt, often packed with nails and shrapnel and destroying innocent lives. This is not a freedom fighter, or a person seeking justice, but a chronically and irreversibly evil human being.



I can only assume that one day in the near future Ms. Kates, you will chip off that heavy layer of make up and discover your conscience



ARMOND SCHIFF [/B]

[turbotrip]

^interesting read, and very well thought out/written, but anyone who believes everything written there is not in touch with reality, as much of those accusations are not factual

[ZEDGE]

Originally posted by turbotrip
^interesting read, and very well thought out/written, but anyone who believes everything written there is not in touch with reality, as much of those accusations are not factual

So I can go to Saudi Arabia and go to a Christian church? Or any other of the 22 states?

[turbotrip]

^yes there are churches in Saudi Arabia, and since i dont know for sure i wont say anything about every one of those 22 countries but every middle eastern country ive been to has had churches

[elmo909]

Yes there are private churches in Saudi Arabia, but it is punishable by death to insult Islam. These "churches" are illegal however, and it is illegal to not be a muslim.

[01RedDX]

.

[ZEDGE]

Originally posted by elmo909
Yes there are private churches in Saudi Arabia, but it is punishable by death to insult Islam. These "churches" are illegal however, and it is illegal to not be a muslim.

Sounds like a great place. Must be nice living in Canada and other western countries where you are free to be any religon.

[turbotrip]

Originally posted by elmo909
Yes there are private churches in Saudi Arabia, but it is punishable by death to insult Islam. These "churches" are illegal however, and it is illegal to not be a muslim.

why did u post about something u dont know? do u know how many americans live in saudi arabia? its not illegal to be non-muslim

[elmo909]

Originally posted by turbotrip


why did u post about something u dont know? do u know how many americans live in saudi arabia? its not illegal to be non-muslim
Uhm... I suggest that you read any travel guide or read any travel tips that cover going to Saudi Arabia, and they will all tell you tha worshiping another religion is strictly forbidden and to use caution when doing so in private. And I meant to say that all Saudi CITIZENS must be Muslims.


The kingdom of Saudi Arabia is an Islamic theocratic monarchy without legal protection for freedom of religion, and such protection does not exist in practice. Islam is the official religion; and the law requires that all citizens be Muslims. The Saudi government, via the Mutaween (Arabic: مطوعين), or Committee for the Propagation of Virtue and the Prevention of Vice, i.e., the religious police, prohibits the public practice of non-Muslim religions.

[turbotrip]

Originally posted by elmo909

Uhm... I suggest that you read any travel guide or read any travel tips that cover going to Saudi Arabia, and they will all tell you tha worshiping another religion is strictly forbidden and to use caution when doing so in private. And I meant to say that all Saudi CITIZENS must be Muslims.



Uhm...I suggest that you put down your travel guide pamphlets and talk to someone whos been to Saudi Arabia. I know many saudi citizens that are Christian.

"The Government has stated publicly, including before the U.N. Committee on Human Rights in Geneva, that its policy is to protect the right of non-Muslims to worship privately; however, it does not provide explicit guidelines--such as the number of persons permitted to attend and acceptable locations--for determining what constitutes private worship, which makes distinctions between public and private worship unclear."

[elmo909]

What do you think that means ^^? It means the government can crack down on people worshiping whenever the fuck they want.

[turbotrip]

crack down on what man? the government doesnt run up in the churches to close them down, and doesnt stop anyone from practicing their religion

[01RedDX]

.

[turbotrip]

ive lived there so i know exactly what im talking about, where did u get such a terrible picture of Saudi Arabia? and please dont say CNN
the picture we get here of that country is that there are big bearded barbarians running up and down the streets with machettes looking for infedels to kill, but its not like that there, its actually kind of sad how much the saudis love americans and kiss their asses, sure there are crazy citizens too but the majority is not

[01RedDX]

.

[ZEDGE]

Another view... :dunno:

[mubarak]

u guys hve any idea how many americans live in soudi arabia. dont talk if dont know nothing. ive bean there and how u come with that the'll kill if ur not a muslim just use common sese for a second then talk and dont talk if u dont know.