Bertuzzi lawsuit *$15 million*

[l8braker]

http://www.cbc.ca/olympics/sports/icehockey/stories/index.shtml?/story/olympics/national/2006/02/15/Sports/bertuzzi060215.html

What does everyone think about this? Civil lawsuit from Steve Moore... 15 million. Coaches, team included... He can't play so should he sue? What goes on the ice, stays on the ice?

The timing of this is appalling.

[Def_3]

timing is bad, however Bertuzzi's actions were even more disgusting, and seemed obvious that crawford was in on it too, however I dont think Moore was worth 15 million

[Shaolin]

sucks to be Steve Moore.. I think he should get some compensation for the event, but why did it have to come now? Anyone can live comfortable with less than 5 million with addition to whatever mental trauma he got from it.

[Nissanaddict]

Maybe it's a justified lawsuit, that is debatable (in fact I'm currently feeling yes, it's justified) but the timing is inexcusably disgusting. He already had controversy surrounding him, Gretzky now has that too (even though he had nothing to do with it) I thought it was bad enough how nobody from the media talks to Gretzky about hockey, and now Bertuzzi as well? It's the fucking olympics. When the olympics first started, they would suspend wars, until the olympics were over. Now people wait UNTIL the olympics to do this kind of shit? Disgusting.

[Speed_Dreams]

this must be a new case.....i thought the case Steve moore brough to bertuzzi was thrown out by the judge???

[Nufy]

The US case was thrown out.

This must be in Wancouver......

[benyl]

The article, if you read it, says it was filed in Ontario.

[the_fornicator]

I think moore's a bitch.

plus, how can you prove that bertuzzi was the one that actually caused the injury that left moore debilitated for however long and not the 20 guys that piled on top?

[ninjak84]

15 million sounds just right.

It would be different if he wasn't a hockey player, and if he could play again. But under the circumstances, I don't know how anyone can talk down Moore over this. His career is over, and 15 million is pennies in the NHL.

[Foz]

:werd:

[87Supra]

I think it is fair! However, I think he should also not be able to play in the NHL till Steve Moore can, which may be never!

I was at that game, and it was the most disgusting thing I ever saw. I mean the whole game was full of fighting, but what Bertuzzi did was un-called for and just sick!

[ca2p3r]

Originally posted by the_fornicator
I think moore's a bitch.

plus, how can you prove that bertuzzi was the one that actually caused the injury that left moore debilitated for however long and not the 20 guys that piled on top?

:werd: :rofl:

[Shaolin]

That's right you can't prove Bertuzzi actually did it.. but this wouldn't of happened if it wasn't due to retaliation or whatever it was..

for some reason, I'm reminded of the 10k damage to my car when I was t-boned by buddy who ran a light while speeding (the lights were actually out and weren't flashing.. buddy didn't even know the lights were out so he didn't stop) but ended up being my fault because I was on the left of him and insurance said if I didn't go this wouldn't have happened.

god dammit, I'm still pissed about that.. and it's been 3 years.

[dericer]

Originally posted by Def_3
...however I dont think Moore was worth 15 million

Players like Moore, who are barely good enough for the NHL can make more money playing international hockey.


I hope this comes directly out of Bertuzzi's, and Crawford's pocket.

[NickGT]

Perfect timing as far as I'm concerned. Bertuzzi doesn't even belong in the NHL nevermind the olympics. The hockey world should be reminded of that. I hope he has to pay out. If it was anyone else, they'd be serving time in a jail cell. Instead he continues to make tons of money. :nut:

Whether it was the punch or the pile up, it's not right no matter how you spin it. He is responsible for all of it.

That's my thoughts on the matter. :goflames:

[Nissanaddict]

Look I'm not opposed to the lawsuit. Just the timing of it. It's the olympics, and this shouhld be a time where we're devoid of bullshit controversy, wars, and any unneccessary legal issues. If he did it immediately after the olympics, cool. But now, Moore comes across as an American that wants to decrease Canada's chances of olympic gold in hockey by adding another dimension of controversy to it. What Bertuzzi did was uncool. Did he feel remorse? Who knows. Did he have justice served fairly? Not to the level of the majority of the population (had I done that I'd be worse off) BUT, it's the olympics. It's a pretty low thing to do. He could have done this during ANY of the remaining 10 months of this year, but he chose to do it now. Bad choice IMO. And I'm sure he'd have more of the public and media backing him had he chose to do that AFTER the olympics.

[l8braker]

Moore is from Windsor, ON.

[CLiVE]

Copy & paste from the article...
-----------------
Moore is seeking $15 million in pecuniary damages for loss of income, $1 million for aggravated damages and $2 million in punitive damages.

His parents, Jack and Anna, who were watching on television when Bertuzzi blindsided Moore, are suing for $1.5 million "for negligent infliction of nervous shock and mental distress."
------------------

Interested in hearing opinions on whether or not you think the 1.5 million lawsuit by Moore's parents is justified...
Opinions?? Total of 19.5Mill...

[Kirbs17]

Originally posted by Shaolin
sucks to be Steve Moore.. I think he should get some compensation for the event, but why did it have to come now? Anyone can live comfortable with less than 5 million with addition to whatever mental trauma he got from it.


They had to file the lawsuit because there is a 2 year limitation period in Canda for lawsuits. I dont like the timing, but they should have done it earlier. And also, why the fuck would he file it in Ontario, when the incident happened in Vancouver? The court should throw it out citing its not their jurisdicition (a completly viable reason).

I dunno, $15 million for lost wages and damages is a little extensive, though I think Bertuzzi should pay him something.

[l8braker]

Originally posted by CLiVE
1.5 million lawsuit by Moore's parents is justified...
Opinions??...

Might as well hop on the gravy train to get rich. They should fuck off.

[max_boost]

:werd: To the timing, he could have waited until the end of the Olympics.

Bertuzzi should just pay Moore $10million US and call it a day. :drama:

[CLiVE]

Originally posted by l8braker


Might as well hop on the gravy train to get rich. They should fuck off.

My thoughts exactly.

1.5 Million for negligent infliction of nervous shock and mental distress...:banghead:

I would also really like to see the math behind the 15 million figure. Lost wages x # of years...etc.

[Nissanaddict]

After the olympics may have been after the 2 year limit then, BUT, a year ago, was not.

[the_fornicator]

whatever, you guys are so full of it, if it weren't for enforcers like bertuzzi all the upper echelon players would have been knocked out a long time ago.

everybody likes a great fight, but as soon as someone gets hurt everybody starts bitching. it wasn't intentional and I admit that doesn't excuse anything, but it's a freak accident.

lol I love how everybody plays the "if" game. I'll play too: If moore would have just stood up to bertuzzi like a man and fought the guy, he could still be playing and maybe only be sporting a shiner.

Or if Bertuzzi noticed that moore was actually knocked out from the inital punch, he wouldn't have face washed him in on the way down.

what? why don't you guys start hating on iginla then whenever he starts a fight for his team then? what if iginla gets in a fight, chips a guy's cheekbone and that bone happens to float in buddy's eye and blinds him? you guys gonna start hating on him like you are bertuzzi?

not saying that he was right, by any means, but he doesn't seem like a malicious guy to be banned from the sport forever.

[SOAB]

fuck moore. i betcha that he is healthy enough to play but guess what? that idiot is NOT GOOD ENOUGH for the nhl!!

he should be suing the Avs also because he told the coach that he didn't want to go out there anymore and they still put him on.

his parents can go hug a dick too!!

[toyboy88]

Originally posted by SOAB
moore. i betcha that he is healthy enough to play but guess what? that idiot is NOT GOOD ENOUGH for the nhl!!

he should be suing the Avs also because he told the coach that he didn't want to go out there anymore and they still put him on.

his parents can go hug a dick too!!

i think it's justified regardless wither burtuzzi hit a "nobody" player or a "superstar" in the league..what he did either way was totally uncalled for... :dunno:

[mac_82]

Originally posted by the_fornicator
everybody likes a great fight, but as soon as someone gets hurt everybody starts bitching. it wasn't intentional and I admit that doesn't excuse anything, but it's a freak accident.

You are kidding me right? That wasn't a fight it was a cheap shot from behind. Sure everyone likes a great fight, but that wasn't a fight. And YES it WAS INTENTIONAL. Try to tell me how is wasn't.


Originally posted by the_fornicator
lol I love how everybody plays the "if" game. I'll play too: If moore would have just stood up to bertuzzi like a man and fought the guy, he could still be playing and maybe only be sporting a shiner.

Now it has been a while since this game happened, but Moore had already fought some one from the Canucks, can't remember who, and I think Moore won....can't remember though. Are you saying Moore should fight 2< players from the Canucks in 1 game?



Originally posted by the_fornicator
Or if Bertuzzi noticed that moore was actually knocked out from the inital punch, he wouldn't have face washed him in on the way down.

How can Bertuzzi notice if Moore is knocked out or not, it was a cheap shot from behind. Or maybe his body going limp after a shot to the head shoulda been a good indication.


Originally posted by the_fornicator
what? why don't you guys start hating on iginla then whenever he starts a fight for his team then? what if iginla gets in a fight, chips a guy's cheekbone and that bone happens to float in buddy's eye and blinds him? you guys gonna start hating on him like you are bertuzzi?

Iginla, Phaneuf, Simon, Weimer, etc challenge a guy straight up to fight. The difference is:

a) they aren't cheap shotting someone from behind
b) both parties are willing to fight
c) they didn't declare acts of venegance in the media and then follow through
d) if the other guy doesn't wanna fight he runs away and hops on the bench like Ruutu.

[l8braker]

^ Moore checked Naslund from behind.

[Kirbs17]

Originally posted by the_fornicator
whatever, you guys are so full of it, if it weren't for enforcers like bertuzzi all the upper echelon players would have been knocked out a long time ago.




I dont agree with blindsiding someone. A good clean fight > a cheap shot from behind, 1 month and 3 games removed from the initial incident

[mac_82]

Originally posted by SOAB
fuck moore. i betcha that he is healthy enough to play but guess what? that idiot is NOT GOOD ENOUGH for the nhl!!

he should be suing the Avs also because he told the coach that he didn't want to go out there anymore and they still put him on.
his parents can go hug a dick too!!

Why don't you leave the talking to people who know what they are talking about.

Ever had post concussion syndrome? Wouldn't think so.

Think NHL players like Scott Stevens, Adam Deadmarsh, Eric Lindros, etc were not good enough to play in the NHL?

Maybe they couldn't play because of the after effects of a concussion, some people are lucky enough to come back and play, others retire.

[mac_82]

Originally posted by l8braker
^ Moore checked Naslund from behind.

The hit was clean. If it was so bad:

a) why wasn't a penalty called
b) the league could have fined him, just like it has many a time to players like Denis Gauthier.

I have played hockey for 16+ years, and I thought it was a clean hit.

[joyridder]

:bullshit: I like the timing of the lawsuit, justin in time for the olympics...way to go....

[l8braker]

Originally posted by mac_82


The hit was clean. If it was so bad:

a) why wasn't a penalty called
b) the league could have fined him, just like it has many a time to players like Denis Gauthier.

I have played hockey for 16+ years, and I thought it was a clean hit.

I don't know. I was correcting you from what you said. It all stemmed from that hit.

[mac_82]

The game where Bertuzzi injured Moore was on March 8, 2004. Since today is Feb 15, 2006, it is just under 2 years. The Olympics go until Feb 26, which is a Sunday, maybe waiting until Feb 27 or later might have been to long who knows....

Looks like a nice fair fight:
http://www.vg.no/bilder/bildarkiv/1094472526.92394.jpg

http://www.cbc.ca/sports/indepth/bertuzzi/gfx/bertuzzi_todd_031004.jpg

[Mr_John]

Originally posted by the_fornicator
I think moore's a bitch.



like you and a lot of people on this board
i also hate moore



Originally posted by CLiVE
Copy &amp; paste from the article...
-----------------
Moore is seeking $15 million in pecuniary damages for loss of income, $1 million for aggravated damages and $2 million in punitive damages.

His parents, Jack and Anna, who were watching on television when Bertuzzi blindsided Moore, are suing for $1.5 million &quot;for negligent infliction of nervous shock and mental distress.&quot;
------------------

Interested in hearing opinions on whether or not you think the 1.5 million lawsuit by Moore's parents is justified...
Opinions?? Total of 19.5Mill...


Moore is seeking 15 million in damages loss of income?
who does he think he is..... Iginla??
under the new CBA, he wouldnt have been worth much
4 years should be MORE than enough to recover and get back onto the ice.... so he thinks he's worth about $4million a year??

Moore's a bitch.

[l8braker]

^ Keep in mind, it's most likely his bottom feeding LAWYERS who are inflating everything. Oh hey, while they're at it, why not try and get 1.5 million for his poor parents. Think of that whole commission 19.5mil..... Early retirement baby!

[Mr_John]

Originally posted by l8braker
^ Keep in mind, it's most likely his bottom feeding LAWYERS who are inflating everything. Oh hey, while they're at it, why not try and get 1.5 million for his poor parents. Think of that whole commission 19.5mil..... Early retirement baby!

i guess if i were steve moore and i knew that i wasnt gonna make the big bucks in the nhl since i sucked
i'd do the same thing instead of trying to become a better player

[l8braker]

^ Slow down there partner.... Has it been proven that he could be the same player as before? Could YOU come back and be the same, in a better NHL after having your neck broken?

[Mr_John]

Originally posted by l8braker
^ Slow down there partner.... Has it been proven that he could be the same player as before? Could YOU come back and be the same, in a better NHL after having your neck broken?

perhaps not
but he was an AHL caliber player anyways
i guess my only arguement is that he isnt worth $15million

[mac_82]

Originally posted by Mr_John
i guess if i were steve moore and i knew that i wasnt gonna make the big bucks in the nhl since i sucked
i'd do the same thing instead of trying to become a better player

How do you know he couldn't have made the big bucks? Moore was a 2nd round pick in 1998. He was 25 when the incident happened, and had only played 69 games and had 12 points. Almost the same kinda stats as a forward like Chuck Kobasew for example.

And I am sure he could have made at least $1.5-2.75 million per season for the rest of his career once he had a full season in the NHL under his belt and he steadily improved every season.

Lets say Moore played until he was 35 years old, at an average of $1.5 mill per season. That total is $15 million. So if Moore can never play again, he could have lost $15 million in salary.

Plus Moore isn't stupid, he went to school at Harvard. :rolleyes:

[l8braker]

^ Agree with that.

[the_fornicator]

Originally posted by mac_82
You are kidding me right? That wasn't a fight it was a cheap shot from behind. Sure everyone likes a great fight, but that wasn't a fight. And YES it WAS INTENTIONAL. Try to tell me how is wasn't.

The injury wasn't intentional. Obviously the act was intentional genius. what, you think his hands just jumped up and accidentally hit him? Like the difference between 2nd degree murder and manslaughter.

Like I said, freak accident.

You said it yourself, you played hockey for 16 years. So have I. I'm saying that what if you got in a fight with someone and accidentally and severely hurt them? You're not innocent but you're not really the devil in disguise either.


Originally posted by mac_82
Now it has been a while since this game happened, but Moore had already fought some one from the Canucks, can't remember who, and I think Moore won....can't remember though. Are you saying Moore should fight 2&lt; players from the Canucks in 1 game?

Moore didn't fight anybody. It was a scuffle at best. And YES, if you're gonna lay on the big hits, you better be prepared to take your lumps.

Any player knows that if you're gonna hit the start player on the team (naslund didn't even have posession of the puck shouldn't have been hit), you're gonna get your balls knocked off.

In your defense, you can argue either way with that hit. It was clean in that it definately wasn't from behind, but again, naslund didn't have the puck.


Originally posted by mac_82
How can Bertuzzi notice if Moore is knocked out or not, it was a cheap shot from behind. Or maybe his body going limp after a shot to the head shoulda been a good indication.

I was saying that was an "if" (hypothetical situation) in the same vain that other people are using "if"s as if they were facts.


Originally posted by mac_82
Iginla, Phaneuf, Simon, Weimer, etc challenge a guy straight up to fight. The difference is:

a) they aren't cheap shotting someone from behind
b) both parties are willing to fight
c) they didn't declare acts of venegance in the media and then follow through
d) if the other guy doesn't wanna fight he runs away and hops on the bench like Ruutu.

bertuzzi called him on. you can even see him in the video calling moore on, but moore bitched out. there's really no choice in the matter, if someone is gonna fight you, they're gonna fight you. you don't really have a choice to opt out -he made the decision when he hit naslund. One could argue that the reason this has never occurred before is cause the NHL's never seen someone puss out in a fight before like moore.

and what are you talking about? you always hear and see iginla calling someone (directly or indirectly) through the media and during games. Not knocking the guy -he's my favorite player.

moore should have just hopped the bench then.

anyways, I gotta play dodgeball.

[Mr_John]

Originally posted by mac_82


How do you know he couldn't have made the big bucks? Moore was a 2nd round pick in 1998. He was 25 when the incident happened, and had only played 69 games and had 12 points. Almost the same kinda stats as a forward like Chuck Kobasew for example.


You dont know that he could've ever made the big bucks either
too many ifs and could's
for all we know he couldve been a bust in 3 years and became a nobody
i didnt say he doesnt deserve any money
but 15-20 is a lot
8-12 maybe....

[mac_82]

Originally posted by the_fornicator
The injury wasn't intentional. Obviously the act was intentional genius. what, you think his hands just jumped up and accidentally hit him? Like the difference between 2nd degree murder and manslaughter.

If you vow revenge in the national media, as well as to go as far as put a "bounty" on a players head, I would think that that implies a little more than simply fighting, you want blood. I wonder if Brad May ever gave Big Bert his bounty.


Originally posted by the_fornicator

You said it yourself, you played hockey for 16 years. So have I. I'm saying that what if you got in a fight with someone and accidentally and severely hurt them? You're not innocent but you're not really the devil in disguise either.

Not gonna lie, people get hurt in fights. The difference here is, if both people consent to fight, they know the dangers involved. Of course you would feel terrible if you severely hurt them, but its not like the other person didn't know it couldn't have happened. Fighting and taking a cheap shot are 2 different things.



Originally posted by the_fornicator
Moore didn't fight anybody. It was a scuffle at best. And YES, if you're gonna lay on the big hits, you better be prepared to take your lumps.

Any player knows that if you're gonna hit the start player on the team (naslund didn't even have posession of the puck shouldn't have been hit), you're gonna get your balls knocked off.

Didn't Moore fight Cooke at the start of the game. Didn't see the actual fight, but sure hockey fights can get a little "scuffly". Sure if you hit a star player people will be coming for you, but 99% of the time it is a challenge to a FAIR fight, or a clean hit in return.


Originally posted by the_fornicator
bertuzzi called him on. you can even see him in the video calling moore on, but moore bitched out. there's really no choice in the matter, if someone is gonna fight you, they're gonna fight you. you don't really have a choice to opt out -he made the decision when he hit naslund. One could argue that the reason this has never occurred before is cause the NHL's never seen someone puss out in a fight before like moore.

Last time I checked it takes 2 people to fight, people opt out of fights more than you would think.


Originally posted by the_fornicator
and what are you talking about? you always hear and see iginla calling someone (directly or indirectly) through the media and during games. Not knocking the guy -he's my favorite player.


I was refering more about the infamous "bounty".

I can't understand how so many people can stick up for Bertuzzi. He even admitted he was in the wrong. Sure the law suit is in question, but Steve Moore would have made at least $10 million playing out his career in the NHL. Todd Bertuzzi willingfully injured him, some could argue it was pre-meditated. This injury has stopped him from pursuing his profession, and should be compensated as such. Weither his parents should be entitled to money, I don't know, should Moore be entitled to close to $20 million, I don't think so, but he is entitled to his fair share, which is at least $10 million.

[Mr_John]

Originally posted by mac_82

I can't understand how so many people can stick up for Bertuzzi. He even admitted he was in the wrong. Sure the law suit is in question, but Steve Moore would have made at least $10 million playing out his career in the NHL. Todd Bertuzzi willingfully injured him, some could argue it was pre-meditated. This injury has stopped him from pursuing his profession, and should be compensated as such. Weither his parents should be entitled to money, I don't know, should Moore be entitled to close to $20 million, I don't think so, but he is entitled to his fair share, which is at least $10 million.

I by no means am defending Bertuzzi
he's a fool for what he did, this whole incident hurt the nhl too
i remember regis and kelly bashing the nhl the day after the incident
just saying, moore should get LESS than 15.
also, it was said for weeks that Moore was a target
the canucks were being BEATEN on the score and when a team loses that bad, there is always fights

Moore's coach was just ignorant to put him out on the ice
what the hell were they thinking??

[Nissanaddict]

It's ridiculous. I mean, I don't care how freaking much he's asking really. The fact that A, they make this public, and B it's during the olympics, is the part that's REALLY gonna make this sport look even worse. Now everyone's reminded of what Bertuzzi did, and everyone ALSO thinks that hockey's just a buncha controversy with the occasional stick and puck on the ice....just like most Canadians think Nascar is a buncha guys turning left (but tell a Texan that, and whooo you're gettin it) except that's just poking fun. This is gonna continue to look bad. :thumbsdow on moore for not choosing a better time to do this. Also, if it was the lawyers....well me in his place, would hire someone else, and fire those bastards. Stop using publicity to your advantage. It only fuels the media assholes.

[mac_82]

It is tough to say exactly what Moore should be entitled too.

a) He will most likely never play hockey again, or if he does, he will not be as nearly as good as he once was.

b) He went through a huge amount of pain and suffering that was covered immensely by the global media.

c) He was nearly paralyzed, and I am sure he has had to go through a lot of rehab, massage therapy, etc and will have to continue to do so.

Hard to put a price tag on that. :dunno:

[mac_82]

Originally posted by Nissanaddict
:thumbsdow on moore for not choosing a better time to do this. Also, if it was the lawyers....well me in his place, would hire someone else, and fire those bastards. Stop using publicity to your advantage. It only fuels the media assholes.

Moore filed this suit in the US this same week last year, Feb 2005. I am not sure the Olympics have anything to do with it, and it is nearly 2 years since the incident, and it had to be done sooner or later.

For everyone that is complaining about it happening during the Olympics, maybe Bertuzzi should have been kept off the team then?

:dunno:

[gongSHOW]

Originally posted by l8braker
^ Moore checked Naslund from behind.
Didn't Moore check Naslund in an open ice hit that was clean.


Originally posted by Mr_John

Moore is seeking 15 million in damages loss of income?
who does he think he is..... Iginla??
under the new CBA, he wouldnt have been worth much
4 years should be MORE than enough to recover and get back onto the ice.... so he thinks he's worth about $4million a year??

Moore's a bitch.

If he's such a crappy player to begin with what NHL team is going to take a chance on him with the chance of chronic injuries when there are so many other 3rd or 4th liners to choose from. It is likely that his career is over because of this. Moore was a pretty decent 3rd or 4th line center.

[skyline19]

i am a huge canucks fan and i love watching bertuzzi play but i agree with all who said that what he did to moore was very wrong and unjustified. so dont go bashing on me.

i used to have some sympathy for moore prior to this lawsuit but now the asshat is looking like a money-seeking attention whore. 15 mill. for someone that was at most a plugger, on team that he proably wouldnt have made this season anyways(as the Avs 3rd and 4th lines are very good) is bullshit.

His parents are complete dumbasses if they think they can get money off of this. Sure i bet they felt shocked and scared when they were watching him get punched from Bert but does that exercise the right to sue? Tell me this, did the people watching the 9/11 disaster sue everyone in sight? Nope. Did the parents of those deceased on said day sue Al-Quida? Hell no. i dont know where this Americanized "Sue Mcdonalds because i'm a dumbass and spilled hot coffee all over my hand" mentality came from but it is comeplete and utter bulllsheit.

And other thing. Who here has fractured a vertebrae like Steve Moore? My dad was in a car accident and fractured the exact same vertebraes as steve moore plus two more. The doctor told him that he would recover fully with some rehab and also stated that 99.9% of the people who sustain thses types of injuries resume their normal lives with a couple months off. A fractured vertebrae and a broken one are two completely different things. So if you dont know what you are talking about, shut the hell up. Actually i have heard somewhere that doctors have even cleared moore to play again.

Dont get me wrong i think bertuzzi should cough up about 5 million in damages because you cant go around not paying anything when you hurt someone like that. [/rant]

EDIT: on the topic of Moores hit on naslund, if you look at the replay of it, nazzy poked the puck ahead with his body streached out. moore moved the puck aside and plastered nazzy. i dont agree with the hit at all because their is no evidence that naslucd ever had control of the puck.

[ninjak84]

Originally posted by CLiVE
-----------------
Moore is seeking $15 million in pecuniary damages for loss of income, $1 million for aggravated damages and $2 million in punitive damages.

His parents, Jack and Anna, who were watching on television when Bertuzzi blindsided Moore, are suing for $1.5 million for negligent infliction of nervous shock and mental distress
------------------

Interested in hearing opinions on whether or not you think the 1.5 million lawsuit by Moore's parents is justified...
Opinions??

haha! That's classic suing syndrome.

So since I was watching the game, where's my 1.5 million? :rofl: I'm shocked and distressed over here

[l8braker]

Originally posted by Mr_John


I by no means am defending Bertuzzi
he's a fool for what he did, this whole incident hurt the nhl too
i remember regis and kelly bashing the nhl the day after the incident
just saying, moore should get LESS than 15.
also, it was said for weeks that Moore was a target
the canucks were being BEATEN on the score and when a team loses that bad, there is always fights

Moore's coach was just ignorant to put him out on the ice
what the hell were they thinking??

Whoa, what are you doing watching Regis and Kelly???! :eek:

Really good points by everyone here.

[mac_82]

Originally posted by skyline19
on the topic of Moores hit on naslund, if you look at the replay of it, nazzy poked the puck ahead with his body streached out. moore moved the puck aside and plastered nazzy. i dont agree with the hit at all because their is no evidence that naslucd ever had control of the puck.

Since when do you have to have complete control of the puck to get hit? You can hit a guy if the puck is in his feet, or on the tip of his stick.

I quote from the NHL rule book



Possession of the Puck:
The last player to touch the puck, other than the goalkeeper, shall be considered the player in possession. The player deemed in possession of the puck may be checked legally, provided the check is rendered immediately following his loss of possession.

[BerserkerCatSplat]

I'd like to see Moore get every last penny he asks for. A message needs to be sent to meatheads like Bertuzzi that this kind of shit isn't acceptable, and that they'd better be prepared to pay the price.

[googe]

Originally posted by the_fornicator


You said it yourself, you played hockey for 16 years. So have I. I'm saying that what if you got in a fight with someone and accidentally and severely hurt them? You're not innocent but you're not really the devil in disguise either.


what do hockey fights have to do with anything? we are talking about coming up behind someone and punching them in the back of the head hard enough to knock them out.


Originally posted by the_fornicator

Moore didn't fight anybody.


exactly, so again, i dont see what talking about a fight gone bad has to do with anything ;)

if you seriously cant see the difference between a fair scrap gone bad and punching unaware people in the back of the head, i feel sorry for anyone thats played sports with you.

[skandalouz_08]

I'm not saying that what bertuzzi did was right and that he shouldn't have to pay but everyone makes mistakes. Forgive the guy and let him live his life without all this fricken drama

As for Moore, yeah it sucks, get your like 5 million in compensation that you deserve and leave him alone.

[Mr_John]

Originally posted by l8braker


Whoa, what are you doing watching Regis and Kelly???! :eek:

Really good points by everyone here.


i ummm uhhh ummmmm..... errrrr my sister told me about it
actually i dont even know why i was watching



Originally posted by skandalouz_08
I'm not saying that what bertuzzi did was right and that he shouldn't have to pay but everyone makes mistakes. Forgive the guy and let him live his life without all this fricken drama

As for Moore, yeah it sucks, get your like 5 million in compensation that you deserve and leave him alone.



:werd:
not 100% bert's fault
although most of it was, 18million shouldnt be placed all over his head

[the_fornicator]

Originally posted by mac_82


Since when do you have to have complete control of the puck to get hit? You can hit a guy if the puck is in his feet, or on the tip of his stick.

I quote from the NHL rule book



the quote says, "provided the check is rendered immediately following his loss of possession". That hit on naslund wasn't anywhere near immediate. that puck was feet away from naslund. that hit was interference at best! like when two people charge for the puck in the corner, one guy's not allowed to hit the other 3 or 4 feet from the puck. pushing and fighting for the puck is allowed, but you're not allowed to lay the guy out. if moore would have waited another second or two, then yes it would have been a clean hit provided naslund had the puck.

for the record: I'm not saying bertuzzi is right. I agree that he's wrong, but people are making him out to be this devil he's not. my analogy with the "fight gone bad" is that hurting moore was intentional (hell, that goes with any fight -you fight to lay the hurt down), but hurting moore that bad was not intentional regardless whether or not it was a cheap shot.

[mac_82]

In my opinion immediately means a couple of seconds, but it is up to the refs discretion, and he chose not to call a penalty, which was a good call.

[CLiVE]

Originally posted by ninjak84


haha! That's classic suing syndrome.



That's my point. The 'classic suing syndrome' gives the entire lawsuit (15 mill included) a bad taste. IMO by including the 1.5mill the it makes entire suit looks like a money grab on behalf of moore and his entire family.

I believe moore himself should be compensated in some way for his pain and suffering, but you have to admit that Bertuzzi has already tried to do the right thing (community service, suspension, lost wages, lost endorsements, public apology) Where do you draw the line??

I agree that the hit was intentional, resulting damage was not necessarily. With that being said, Bertuzzi has tried to take the responsibility for his actions...hasn't he?

[Nissanaddict]

I think these are all good points as well. But it's still tough to gauge what kind of price should be on this, whether his parents should get money, etc. The point is, I'm not sure how long it's allowed to go on before Bert gets officially served (not to mention he can't get served while in Italy anyways) but they PROBABLY could have waited, and if not, done it in the off-season. Not, during the olympics. Since Moore is American, it makes him look kinda like an ass. Now, sure others would have gotten a bigger penalty for doing something like that to someone who BROKE INTO YOUR HOUSE or attempted to steal your car....but the point of the justice system is to reform, and to get one to feel remorse, and attempt to deter (enough to prevent) him from doing it again. I doubt Bertuzzi is walking around thinking "man he deserved that". Sure he's still a big guy, and plays the big guy game in the NHL, but I for one have not seen much dirty play from him since the incident. So far, it seems the dues he has paid, were enough. BUT, even if they're not, this lawsuit would have been just as effective in August or September of 2005, before the hockey season. Big, crock, of shit. :thumbsdow to the way Moore is going about this. It seems he's attempting to plague the WHOLE team, not just Bertuzzi by doing this.

[CLiVE]

Originally posted by Nissanaddict
Now, sure others would have gotten a bigger penalty for doing something like that to someone who BROKE INTO YOUR HOUSE or attempted to steal your car....

Aside from the timing, and whether or not it was intentionally timed with the olympics.....

The grey area is the fact that is happened on the ice, and not on the street. Had it happened on the street there would have been no question as to his penalty.

How violent is too violent in a 'voilent sport' is the real question. And where exactly is the line that athletes should be careful not to cross.

I'm interested to see how this plays out. Could be a turning point for contact sports...

[HuMz]

Originally posted by mac_82


How do you know he couldn't have made the big bucks? Moore was a 2nd round pick in 1998. He was 25 when the incident happened, and had only played 69 games and had 12 points. Almost the same kinda stats as a forward like Chuck Kobasew for example.

And I am sure he could have made at least $1.5-2.75 million per season for the rest of his career once he had a full season in the NHL under his belt and he steadily improved every season.

Lets say Moore played until he was 35 years old, at an average of $1.5 mill per season. That total is $15 million. So if Moore can never play again, he could have lost $15 million in salary.

Plus Moore isn't stupid, he went to school at Harvard. :rolleyes:

Your overvalueing Steve moore big time. You compare him to kobasew yet moore is 4 years older and had no had no wear near any kind of offensive potential that Kobasew has. And 1.5-2.75 million per year?:eek: not a chance, for a guy who at 25 couldn't score more then 5 goals a year, in the new CBA he would be lucky to ever make more than a million. I mean the only player's on calgary alone to make that kind of money right now are Amonte, Hamerlik, Iginla, kipper langkow & Regher, and all of those player's were showing signs and potential by the age of 25 with the exception of kipper.

A guy line moore is your typical 4th line depth player who make be a good 3rd line guy buy the time he would have retired. In the new CBA those type of player's rarley make above a million unless they are amazing at faceoffs and kill penalties. I still feel he's entilted to money, but he's defintly not worth what he's asking.

[the_fornicator]

Originally posted by mac_82
In my opinion immediately means a couple of seconds, but it is up to the refs discretion, and he chose not to call a penalty, which was a good call.

and it inevitably lead to his ass being handed to him, didn't it?

good call on a late hit when the guy didn't have control of the puck? good call, ref. good call. the rules were shit back then anyways. people getting away with the said late hits, grabbing the sticks/jerseys, holding, hooking, interference, etc. that's the kind of shit that makes the sport a shit sport.

and I'm sure if you timed it, the puck was out of his possession for more than your couple of seconds.

[Justing]

Originally posted by HuMz


Your overvalueing Steve moore big time. You compare him to kobasew yet moore is 4 years older and had no had no wear near any kind of offensive potential that Kobasew has. And 1.5-2.75 million per year?:eek: not a chance, for a guy who at 25 couldn't score more then 5 goals a year, in the new CBA he would be lucky to ever make more than a million. I mean the only player's on calgary alone to make that kind of money right now are Amonte, Hamerlik, Iginla, kipper langkow &amp; Regher, and all of those player's were showing signs and potential by the age of 25 with the exception of kipper.

A guy line moore is your typical 4th line depth player who make be a good 3rd line guy buy the time he would have retired. In the new CBA those type of player's rarley make above a million unless they are amazing at faceoffs and kill penalties. I still feel he's entilted to money, but he's defintly not worth what he's asking.

:werd:
Couldn't have said it better myself.

Getting knocked the fuck out was the best thing that could have ever happened to him. How many of you can HONESTLY say you heard of him before all this shit? Now he's famous and he's gonna cash out.
Don get me wrong, i feel bad that he wasn't able to play and "may never be able to play again" but he would have never made $15 Million in his entire career and as for the parents?!?! wwhhhhat!?!?!? a couple mil cuz you were shocked? Using your childs pain for your own gain... NICE! :rolleyes:

All this crap about $15 mil, they WILL settle for court. His lawyers know that, Bert's lawyers know that, through a couple mil at the bitch and tell him to fuck off.

[mac_82]

2006 NHL average salary = aprox. $1 460 000
2004 NHL average salary = aprox. $1 830 000

It's hard to set an exact figure due to bonuses.

[mac_82]

2005/6 NHL average salary = $1 460 000
2003/4 NHL average salary = $1 830 000
2002/3 NHL average salary = $1 790 000
2001/2 NHL average salary = $1 642 000
2000/1 NHL average salary = $1 434 000
1999/2000 NHL average salary = $1 356 000

Now it will be tough to tell what will happen to the average NHL salary in the next 5 years with the salary cap. The cap for 05/06 is set at $39 million, but it looks like the bar will be raised next year, and could continue to raise as long as revenues stay up. Now there is no way that the salaries for the next 5 years will go up as fast as they did in the old NHL, but its a good chance that they still will go up.

$15 million is a little high to be expecting. Based on a 10 year NHL career it would be fairly achievable though.

[SOAB]

for someone that has played ONLY 69 games since getting drafter (what is that?? 6-7 years??) there is NO WAY Moore would be worth 15million. and his parents can go pound sand, fucken asshats...

[mac_82]

Originally posted by SOAB
for someone that has played ONLY 69 games since getting drafter (what is that?? 6-7 years??) there is NO WAY Moore would be worth 15million. and his parents can go pound sand, fucken asshats...

Do people think before they talk on here? In no way am I saying Steve Moore is worth $15 mill, but at least look at the facts before posting.

Here are some more facts for you.

1997 - 2001 Moore played for Harvard, unlike a lot of guys, he stays in school to finish his 4 years of school before going pro.
1998 - Moore gets drafted 2nd round, 53rd overall by Colorado
2001-2004 More plays 139 games in the AHL, and 69 games in the NHL.

[Mr_John]

Originally posted by mac_82


Do people think before they talk on here? In no way am I saying Steve Moore is worth $15 mill, but at least look at the facts before posting.

Here are some more facts for you.

1997 - 2001 Moore played for Harvard, unlike a lot of guys, he stays in school to finish his 4 years of school before going pro.
1998 - Moore gets drafted 2nd round, 53rd overall by Colorado
2001-2004 More plays 139 games in the AHL, and 69 games in the NHL.

69 games for a 25 year old to me isnt impressive
that just shows that his potential wasnt going anywhere far
22-24 year olds are ripping the league apart right now but you're right, we'll never know what could have been

also is his Harvard backgroud relevant to anything?
is there something im missing? do you get $8 million bucks more if you attend an elite university?

[mac_82]

Originally posted by Mr_John
also is his Harvard backgroud relevant to anything?
is there something im missing? do you get $8 million bucks more if you attend an elite university?

No I am just saying that he did what the majority of NHL hockey players don't and that is finish post-secondary. Graduating from Harvard and being able to play a professional sport is a lot more than most people around here can claim.

[Mr_John]

Originally posted by mac_82


No I am just saying that he did what the majority of NHL hockey players don't and that is finish post-secondary. Graduating from Harvard and being able to play a professional sport is a lot more than most people around here can claim.

:werd:
definitely good and cool of him to do
sorry to say but i guess that harvard education is gonna go to good use now

[gongSHOW]

Originally posted by the_fornicator

That puck was feet away from naslund. that hit was interference at best! like when two people charge for the puck in the corner, one guy's not allowed to hit the other 3 or 4 feet from the puck. pushing and fighting for the puck is allowed, but you're not allowed to lay the guy out. if moore would have waited another second or two, then yes it would have been a clean hit provided naslund had the puck.

Originally posted by the_fornicator

and it inevitably lead to his ass being handed to him, didn't it?
good call on a late hit when the guy didn't have control of the puck? good call, ref. good call. the rules were shit back then anyways. people getting away with the said late hits, grabbing the sticks/jerseys, holding, hooking, interference, etc. that's the kind of shit that makes the sport a shit sport.


Ok I don't think it was late but whatever even if it was late it was marginal at best. The only call would be interference, he didn't jump and his elbow was extended it only contacted becuase Naslund was low.



Originally posted by the_fornicator

but hurting moore that bad was not intentional regardless whether or not it was a cheap shot. /B]

Ya but there is always some intent to injure when someone harasses a guy up and down the ice and then pulls him from behind, sucker punches him in the back of the head then forces his head into the ice. No matter if Moore was as seriously injured as he was there is no doubt Bertuzzi would have been served a match penalty and up for a pretty lengthy suspension.



Originally posted by SOAB
[B]for someone that has played ONLY 69 games since getting drafter (what is that?? 6-7 years??) there is NO WAY Moore would be worth 15million. and his parents can go pound sand, fucken asshats...

Moore was starting to play quite a bit, during the 03-04 season he played 57 games and was probably going to be a solid 3rd or 4th liner in their lineup. Anyways 15 million in salaries may be a little farfetched but he was in hospital, wasn't able to participate in the playoffs that year and likely won't be able to play in the NHL again. There is no real monetary value you can put on a lot of things he will be missing.

[tapout]

Originally posted by BerserkerCatSplat
I'd like to see Moore get every last penny he asks for. A message needs to be sent to meatheads like Bertuzzi that this kind of shit isn't acceptable, and that they'd better be prepared to pay the price. :werd: fuckin goon

[szdzmtr]

I watched that game too..do ya'll think I coould sue Bertuzzi for "for negligent infliction of nervous shock and mental distress"

maybe we should all file a lawsuit..and sue someone for something!!!

Hockey is hocky and cheap shots happen all the time..was it right? NO.. but nobody ever said life is fair and Moore took to the ice knowing that injuries in the sport happen and a hockey career is not a lifelong job. I have played hockey for 30+ years and I too got hurt when playing junior hockey..I didn't sue anybody and life goes on. Moore should maybe change his focus and move on as well..life is oo short to dwell on what could have been.

[calgarys_finest]

in almost every fight in hockey there is an intent to injure. If someone were to run mats sundin for example domi would go and fight him, say domi cuts the guys eye open with a punch and the guy misses 15 games should he sue domi for the 15 games cuz a fight is intent to injure? everyone makes the punch out to be some barbaric event but i believe the aftermath is the sole reason this continues. if bertuzzi wanted to fight him moore should have turned around and fought him. if anyone has played a high level of hockey you know that if someone wants to fight you, you should either fight or get off moore just ignored burtuzzi.
a few fights and it would have been over everyone knew that somthing was gonna happen that game so should the coach of the av's be sued too for not sitting moore? just my two cents

[SOAB]

Originally posted by mac_82


Do people think before they talk on here? In no way am I saying Steve Moore is worth $15 mill, but at least look at the facts before posting.

Here are some more facts for you.

1997 - 2001 Moore played for Harvard, unlike a lot of guys, he stays in school to finish his 4 years of school before going pro.
1998 - Moore gets drafted 2nd round, 53rd overall by Colorado
2001-2004 More plays 139 games in the AHL, and 69 games in the NHL.

so because i don't agree with Bertuzzi getting sued, i don't think before i post? :rolleyes:

25 yrs old, 69 career games=not good enough. what does being a Harvard graduate have anything to do with this?? :zzz:

don't you remember after he hit Naslund? he said "hockey is a contact sport. don't play if you can't take it" or something along those lines... he and his coaches KNEW!!! they fucking KNEW that he was gonna be a target. yet they didn't sit him after they had a huge lead. if he had turned around and fought Bertuzzi instead of skating away, this wouldn't have happened. he should have manned-up and take his lumps.

he should sue everyone that was one the ice at the time for dog-piling on top of him. and his coaches for putting him out there. and the nhl for not cancelling the game knowing that he was going to get his ass beat down. and his parents for putting him in hockey.

[88CRX]

You guys saying Moore isnt "worth" $15 million are nuts... do you guys even understand how a lawsuit works, pain and suffering are taken into account as well as in this case, X years missed playing hockey.

Bertuzzi desereves everything he has coming to him.

And Moores hit on Naslund WAS clean and its kinda funny that the only people saying the hit wasnt clean are Nucks fans... thats odd. Naslund should learn to keep his head up crossing center ice.

[dericer]

Originally posted by 88CRX
You guys saying Moore isnt &quot;worth&quot; $15 million are nuts... do you guys even understand how a lawsuit works, pain and suffering are taken into account as well as in this case, X years missed playing hockey.

Bertuzzi desereves everything he has coming to him.

And Moores hit on Naslund WAS clean and its kinda funny that the only people saying the hit wasnt clean are Nucks fans... thats odd. Naslund should learn to keep his head up crossing center ice.

the 15 mil is strictly for loss of income. There's another 3-4 mil in play for the pain and suffering.

[mac_82]

Originally posted by SOAB


so because i don't agree with Bertuzzi getting sued, i don't think before i post? :rolleyes:


I was refering to your comments on how he is to "old" and hasn't played enough games in the NHL, 25 years old, only 69 games played, 6-7 years after getting drafted, etc, etc.

Maybe he had a good reason for not playing in the NHL sooner. I give props to guys like Moore who decide to finish school and play hockey there before turning pro, and wasting a couple years playing in the minors.

He is obviously good enough to play pro, and was in his first full season playing 50+ games with Colorado.

[gongSHOW]

Originally posted by calgarys_finest
in almost every fight in hockey there is an intent to injure. If someone were to run mats sundin for example domi would go and fight him, say domi cuts the guys eye open with a punch and the guy misses 15 games should he sue domi for the 15 games cuz a fight is intent to injure? everyone makes the punch out to be some barbaric event but i believe the aftermath is the sole reason this continues. if bertuzzi wanted to fight him moore should have turned around and fought him. if anyone has played a high level of hockey you know that if someone wants to fight you, you should either fight or get off moore just ignored burtuzzi.
a few fights and it would have been over everyone knew that somthing was gonna happen that game so should the coach of the av's be sued too for not sitting moore? just my two cents

Ya but fighting is clearly within the confines of the game, thats why there is only a major awarded. Chasing a guy up and down the ice like a retard and then sucker punching him in the back of the head and then driving his face into the ice is clearly not. There is no doubt that it would have been awarded a match penalty and a lengthy even if Moore was able to get up. There should be no reason why a coach should have to sit one of his players. Ok it may have been a smarter move put in no way does it hold him responsible for someone's incomprehensible actions. Again, Moore was more than ready to fight Cooke when Cooke wanted to fight he dropped his gloves. This would have never happened if the Canucks were winning or it was close, its just Bertuzzi was frustrated.



Originally posted by dericer


the 15 mil is strictly for loss of income. There's another 3-4 mil in play for the pain and suffering.

Obviously the number is going to bloated you can never expect someone to sue for the most plausible value, especially when it is likely to result in a out of court settlement.

[skyline19]

Originally posted by 88CRX
And Moores hit on Naslund WAS clean and its kinda funny that the only people saying the hit wasnt clean are Nucks fans... thats odd. Naslund should learn to keep his head up crossing center ice.

very true i am a Canucks fan. so what? Are you telling me that if Iginla got wallpapered exactly like naslund did, you would agree that it's still clean?

fact of the matter is that it WAS NOT a clean hit. Moore made no intent to go for the puck, therefore it was a dirty hit.

[dansmith11]

Originally posted by skyline19


very true i am a Canucks fan. so what? Are you telling me that if Iginla got wallpapered exactly like naslund did, you would agree that it's still clean?

fact of the matter is that it WAS NOT a clean hit. Moore made no intent to go for the puck, therefore it was a dirty hit.


your an idiot. have you ever played hockey? do you understand the game even a little bit? lol. taking the man instead of the puck does NOT constitute a dirty hit. thats by far the stupidest thing anyones said in this entire thread.

and you talk like no flames player has ever been rocked, lol. ive seen iggy get smoked before, and yeah i was pissed, but i didnt scream and cry and bitch about how it was a dirty hit.

:goflames:

[dericer]

Originally posted by dansmith11



your an idiot. have you ever played hockey? do you understand the game even a little bit? lol. taking the man instead of the puck does NOT constitute a dirty hit. thats by far the stupidest thing anyones said in this entire thread.

and you talk like no flames player has ever been rocked, lol. ive seen iggy get smoked before, and yeah i was pissed, but i didnt scream and cry and bitch about how it was a dirty hit.

:goflames:

:werd: it was clean. If it happened to Jarome I'd be more concerned for Moore.

But I guarentee you this. Iggy would have turmed Moore around and dropped the gloves, not gone the pussy route.

[gongSHOW]

Originally posted by skyline19


very true i am a Canucks fan. so what? Are you telling me that if Iginla got wallpapered exactly like naslund did, you would agree that it's still clean?

fact of the matter is that it WAS NOT a clean hit. Moore made no intent to go for the puck, therefore it was a dirty hit.
Since when do you play the puck when you hit someone? If you play the puck you are going to get dangled!

[mac_82]

**que security guards in nike commercial**

now thats a sweet dangle!

[lastprodigy]

Of course the numbers are bloated but what do you expect. I will leave my opinions on the actual hit cause its too controversial. As for the law suit I say Moore gets 4-5 years of whatever his salary was -26% (roll back) and a couple mill for whatever. Id assume about 750K/year so assuming he is guilty and the rulling is in his favour he should get 5mil.