The Kirpan fought the law and...the Kirpan won [Archive] - Beyond.ca - Car Forums

SLR

03-03-2006, 10:51 PM

So that kid one the right to wear his KNIFE in school. Immediately several provincial schools policies changed. I personally don't believe a WEAPON regardless of it's religious status should be allowed in schools with other kids.

I will admit I am not surprised by another lay-down-and-take-it ruling by our government. Would you want to irritate them and not let them carry a KNIFE that can be as big as a sword that is of religious symbolism?

Discuss?

EDIT: I will admit I have a redneck approach to this, but I'm probably not allowed to take a gun to school... Guns to me are part of what represents justice, law and order.. three things I truly believe in. ;) :thumbsup:

Anyways, I talked to a few people about it already today and it seems no one really agrees with the ruling. This sort of reminds me of that RCMP that joined simply to change the policy of being able to wear a turban.

I'm curious why it is so critical for someone to be able to wear this thing in school? Why did Canada think it would be outrageous if they denied the guy the priviledge of doing so?

In Canada we are free to practise our beliefs at will provided they do not jeopardise others. The whole "Your rights end where anothers begins" etc. I don't know that I would be comfortable sending a kid to a school that allowed another kid.. but not mine to carry a knife.

I read the definition and purpose of the Kirpan and truthfully it could be taken out of context and used on someone making fun of its wearer. (Obviously in an extreme situation)

I think this is way over the top.

So instead of callign me a racist redneck as some of you hat-fuckers usually do, feel free to add some knowledge and information to this thread.

snowboard

03-03-2006, 10:56 PM

Edit: yah this was ignorant, about as ignorant as someone fighting to bring a weapon to school.
sorry to those it offended.
i took it off because it was out of line
wanna know what it said PM me.

EK 2.0

03-03-2006, 10:56 PM

I do not agree with the ruling of the courts to allow Kirpans into schools.

Having said that, yes the Kirpan is a religious sybol, the 5 "K's" are sacred to the Sikh community/religion. But to allow something that could potenially hurt others into a place where people should feel safe and secure?? No thank you. I mean you will have 85% of the population who decides to rock one behave in a very appropriate manner. But that 15% who will use this as an excuse to pack a weapon in order to defend themselves or hurt others?? The risk far outweighs the "reward" to me. And I for one would love to see the ruling overturned.

Or worse yet, what if next week a student or teacher is maimed or killed with one by an aggrivated student?? Or perhaps a Kirpan is used against the student who decided to wear it with pride?? Then what happens??

Originally posted by snowboard
fuck that

that fuck can go back east if he wants to wear his fucking knife too school.

And wow snowboard, thanks for sharing your enlightened view...ass...:rolleyes:

pinoyhero

03-03-2006, 10:58 PM

+1, I disagree

snowboard

03-03-2006, 10:58 PM

Originally posted by EK 2.0

Or worse yet, what if next week a student or teacher is maimed or killed with one by an aggrivated student?? Or perhaps a Kirpan is used against the student who decided to wear it with pride?? Then what happens??

And wow snowboard, thanks for sharing your enlightened view...ass...:rolleyes:

no see it is enlighten
cause i agree with you

if someone does get hurt, due to some kid wearing his kirpan to school
then the rest of sihk's who carry them are gunna get shit on. the ones who are adapting to the western lifestyle of the country they live in.
so thats totally stupid.

shakalaka

03-03-2006, 11:01 PM

^^Either you are really fucking ignorant or you cant read fuck all. EK even wrote in his post that this is for the Sikh Religion. So where did the Muslims come from?

I personally don't really care. I am myself a Sikh but I don't wear the Kirpan/Turban or anything, so in other words i dont really follow it fanatically or anything. But, for someone who wears a Kirpan must be someone who is into the religion and follows it really seriously. So if someone is that serious about their religion they won't really diss it by using it as a weapon. But that I guess can't be true for everyone I guess.

Plus the Kirpan is not sharp or anything. Its not literally a KNIFE, it's really really blunt and is really small in length. Even the biggest size one isn't that big. Even though its pointed, it's almost next to impossible to kill someone with that unless you fuckin take an eye out or something or stab the balls.

SLR

03-03-2006, 11:01 PM

Edited original post... sorry.

snowboard

03-03-2006, 11:02 PM

SLR

03-03-2006, 11:03 PM

EK 2.0

03-03-2006, 11:05 PM

Originally posted by SLR
Edited original post... sorry.

I will add some insight and knowledge, instad of just spewing off swear words and idiotic remarks.

I don't think that this has any comparison to the Turban issue a few years back. In fact I think this is totally the opposite. The turban has no effect on safety of the bearer OR anyone around him, but the Kirpan can cause pain, and suffering if used in the wrong manner. Or if in the wrong hands.

shakalaka

03-03-2006, 11:08 PM

Originally posted by SLR
So why not simply correct him on that point? A little insecure are we?

ahahah
Insecure...about what?

SLR

03-03-2006, 11:11 PM

I also thought it was awfully ballsy of that kid to say "I think Canada is learning something" or whatever it was.

That turban thing was just irritating because of the attitude of the guy doing it. Seemed pretty righteous and arrogant.

Either way you "cut" it.. Canada is changing. Different things must be accepted I suppose. <- An attitude that will allow goat-fuckers to fuck goats in public because it is their belief and right as a healthy goat fucking person. :rofl:

Originally posted by shakalaka

ahahah
Insecure...about what? Ya went kinda postal over the whole muslim bit dude. :nut:

ZEDGE

03-03-2006, 11:11 PM

Now lets not turn this into a typical redneck immigrant bashing thread.. in Canada we like immigrants and multiculturalizm...:)

snowboard

03-03-2006, 11:14 PM

Originally posted by EK 2.0

I will add some insight and knowledge, instad of just spewing off swear words and idiotic remarks.

I don't think that this has any comparison to the Turban issue a few years back. In fact I think this is totally the opposite. The turban has no effect on safety of the bearer OR anyone around him, but the Kirpan can cause pain, and suffering if used in the wrong manner. Or if in the wrong hands.

no comparison at all.
i believe you mean the RCMP or CPS thing, where they fought to where turbans while on duty.
now see i dont think there should have even been a fight.
by no means is there any reason they shouldnt have been allowed too.

EK 2.0

03-03-2006, 11:14 PM

Originally posted by ZEDGE
Now lets not turn this into a typical redneck immigrant bashing thread.. in Canada we like immigrants and multiculturalizm...:)

Agreed, I have no qualms in shutting this down if it gets too off track...

ZEDGE

03-03-2006, 11:14 PM

Originally posted by EK 2.0

Agreed, I have no qualms in shutting this down if it gets too off track...
:rofl:

eb0i

03-03-2006, 11:15 PM

Isn't it true that some provinces, including Alberta, permit the wearing of a Kirpan even before this legislation? It's just they have restrictions on if it has to be concealed or not and the size is limited.

ZEDGE

03-03-2006, 11:17 PM

Originally posted by eb0i
Isn't it true that some provinces, including Alberta, permit the wearing of a Kirpan even before this legislation? It's just they have restrictions on if it has to be concealed or not and the size is limited.

Yep

shakalaka

03-03-2006, 11:18 PM

Originally posted by SLR
I also thought it was awfully ballsy of that kid to say "I think Canada is learning something" or whatever it was.

That turban thing was just irritating because of the attitude of the guy doing it. Seemed pretty righteous and arrogant.

Either way you "cut" it.. Canada is changing. Different things must be accepted I suppose. <- An attitude that will allow goat-fuckers to fuck goats in public because it is their belief and right as a healthy goat fucking person. :rofl:

Ya went kinda postal over the whole muslim bit dude. :nut:

Wow man!! Amazing....simply amazing!!

You are comparing someone's religious beliefs and values with an example of people fucking goats? One thing is something traditional that people believe in and is sacred/religious to them and they have been following for I dont even know how many hundreds of years and another a hypothetical situation where whether people should be allowed to fuck goats in public or no? I mean if you like shagging goats, by all means go ahead do that, but why would you want to do in the public anyways. Thats like saying normal people/humans should be allowed to have sex in public. I kinda fail to see a connection there.

As far as the Kirpan issue is concerned, I dont really understand how people can be afraid of it. It's always tucked inside the shirt, so its not visible to the public. I fail to see how that would cause 'fear of injury' or 'distress' to anyone. Plus its a limited size/blunt, not sharp at all. Its pretty much useless when it comes to using it as a weapon. Hell even a geometric compass is freakin more pointed then that and can hurt and damage more. Just cauz of the fact that it looks like a 'KNIFE' doesn't automatically make it a weapon.
And I wasn't going 'postal' over that thing or anything. Maybe I just express things in a different way?

ZEDGE

03-03-2006, 11:23 PM

A790

03-03-2006, 11:24 PM

Originally posted by shakalaka

Wow man!! Amazing....simply amazing!!

You are comparing someone's religious beliefs and values with an example of people fucking goats? One thing is something traditional that people believe in and is sacred/religious to them and another a hypothetical situation where whether people should be allowed to fuck goats in public or no? I kinda fail to see a connection there.

And I wasn't going 'postal' over that thing or anything. Maybe I just express things in a different way?

Man relax a bit. It was an analogy, albeit a bad one.

I don't agree that Kirpans should be allowed in school anymore than a small pocket knife. I know how kids are, and what they're doing these days. Hell, someone got beat to death on a bus. Don't tell me that suddenly now a kirpan won't find it's way into the mix.

I don't care if it isn't sharpe, it still adds leverage and force to an attack.

dansmith11

03-03-2006, 11:24 PM

Originally posted by shakalaka
^^Either you are really fucking ignorant or you cant read fuck all. EK even wrote in his post that this is for the Sikh Religion. So where did the Muslims come from?

I personally don't really care. I am myself a Sikh but I don't wear the Kirpan/Turban or anything, so in other words i dont really follow it fanatically or anything. But, for someone who wears a Kirpan must be someone who is into the religion and follows it really seriously. So if someone is that serious about their religion they won't really diss it by using it as a weapon. But that I guess can't be true for everyone I guess.

Plus the Kirpan is not sharp or anything. Its not literally a KNIFE, it's really really blunt and is really small in length. Even the biggest size one isn't that big. Even though its pointed, it's almost next to impossible to kill someone with that unless you fuckin take an eye out or something or stab the balls.

an unsharpened knife is still a knife though. even if you couldnt really cut someone with it, it still looks like a knife, which other people will find threatening. no one wants to goto a school where they feel threatened.

you wouldnt let someone bring a gun to school just becuase it had no bullets in it.

SLR

03-03-2006, 11:26 PM

Originally posted by shakalaka

Wow man!! Amazing....simply amazing!!

You are comparing someone's religious beliefs and values with an example of people fucking goats? One thing is something traditional that people believe in and is sacred/religious to them and another a hypothetical situation where whether people should be allowed to fuck goats in public or no? I kinda fail to see a connection there.

And I wasn't going 'postal' over that thing or anything. Maybe I just express things in a different way? Well, quote me properly if at all then Shakalalakalakalaka, I said it was the type of thinking. Obviously (hopefully) no one will be allowed to fuck goats... even if it IS their beliefs)

Wait a minute.. if they believe in it strong enough, isn't it their right as a citizen of Canada to be able to practise their beliefs and not face any cruel/unusual punishment for it?

I could have another analogy, but goat fucking has been on my mind a lot lately.

SLR

03-03-2006, 11:27 PM

Originally posted by ZEDGE

Fucking goats is a very spiritual event. Sorta like a rednecks bar-mitzvah ;) so to speak..

EK 2.0

03-03-2006, 11:27 PM

who is to say the 15% of the people who choose to don one will not sharpen one??...or carry a real knife and call it a Kirpan??

snowboard

03-03-2006, 11:28 PM

Originally posted by SLR

I could have another analogy, but goat fucking has been on my mind a lot lately.

hahahahaha thats a little odd.

shakalaka

03-03-2006, 11:28 PM

Originally posted by A790

Man relax a bit. It was an analogy, albeit a bad one.

I don't agree that Kirpans should be allowed in school anymore than a small pocket knife. I know how kids are, and what they're doing these days. Hell, someone got beat to death on a bus. Don't tell me that suddenly now a kirpan won't find it's way into the mix.

I don't care if it isn't sharpe, it still adds leverage and force to an attack.

Well, if a fight does break out a freakin compass can be used as a wepon too. I think they are quite sharp. Maybe they should ban them too.

shakalaka

03-03-2006, 11:30 PM

Originally posted by SLR
Well, quote me properly if at all then Shakalalakalakalaka, I said it was the type of thinking. Obviously (hopefully) no one will be allowed to fuck goats... even if it IS their beliefs)

Wait a minute.. if they believe in it strong enough, isn't it their right as a citizen of Canada to be able to practise their beliefs and not face any cruel/unusual punishment for it?

I could have another analogy, but goat fucking has been on my mind a lot lately.

Well, until it's legal I suggest you keep yourself and your goats in your home then eh.

A790

03-03-2006, 11:30 PM

Originally posted by shakalaka

Well, if a fight does break out a freakin compass can be used as a wepon too. I think they are quite sharp. Maybe they should ban them too.

Now you're just being a smartass.

You have an object which looks and is percieved as a knife, and a fucking compass.

Good comparison.

SLR

03-03-2006, 11:31 PM

Originally posted by shakalaka

Well, if a fight does break out a freakin compass can be used as a wepon too. I think they are quite sharp. Maybe they should ban them too.

BUT it's not a purpose built weapon. You lose.

shakalaka

03-03-2006, 11:32 PM

Originally posted by EK 2.0
who is to say the 15% of the people who choose to don one will not sharpen one??...or carry a real knife and call it a Kirpan??

The 15% that would choose to keep it will be the ones the have respect for the religion and follow it honestly with all faith. Don't think they would go around start sharpening it. Plus its worn on the body with a round rope that goes around the neck and side of the stomach. So it would prolly kill them before it can kill someone else.

shakalaka

03-03-2006, 11:33 PM

Originally posted by A790

Now you're just being a smartass.

You have an object which looks and is percieved as a knife, and a fucking compass.

Good comparison.

Just cauz of the fact that it looks like a knife doesn't mean it's a knife. Techinally and practically compass will do more damage if used in a fight then the Kirpan.

snowboard

03-03-2006, 11:33 PM

Originally posted by shakalaka

The 15% that would choose to keep it will be the ones the have respect for the religion and follow it honestly with all faith. Don't think they would go around start sharpening it. Plus its worn on the body with a round rope that goes around the neck and side of the stomach. So it would prolly kill them before it can kill someone else.

then why wear it? check out that thread of the lady trying to stab a cop
what if there freind tackled them jokingly and that happened.
its even a danger to themselves!

SLR

03-03-2006, 11:34 PM

Originally posted by shakalaka

The 15% that would choose to keep it will be the ones the have respect for the religion and follow it honestly with all faith. Don't think they would go around start sharpening it. Plus its worn on the body with a round rope that goes around the neck and side of the stomach. So it would prolly kill them before it can kill someone else.

Are you the third coming of George Bush? I've seen less bullshit at the stampede :rolleyes:

SoSlowDx

03-03-2006, 11:35 PM

Originally posted by SLR
So that kid one the right to wear his KNIFE in school. Immediately several provincial schools policies changed. I personally don't believe a WEAPON regardless of it's religious status should be allowed in schools with other kids.

I totally agree, I don't know much about the religion but regardless WEAPONS should not be allowed in schools.:)

Godfuader

03-03-2006, 11:35 PM

Originally posted by EK 2.0
...I mean you will have 85% of the population who decides to rock one behave in a very appropriate manner. But that 15% who will use this as an excuse to pack a weapon in order to defend themselves or hurt others?? The risk far outweighs the "reward" to me. And I for one would love to see the ruling overturned.
:werd: It is great as a religious symbol, but there will be those odd lots who will see this as an opportunity to carry a weapon, and will call it a religious necessity.
+1 for freedom of religious expression
-1 for idiots that abuse freedoms

A790

03-03-2006, 11:35 PM

Originally posted by shakalaka

Just cauz of the fact that it looks like a knife doesn't mean it's a knife. Techinally and practically compass will do more damage if used in a fight then the Kirpan.

Bullshit. If the kirpan has any sort of wieght, not only can I try and stab you with it, but I can use it as an extension of my arm to swing and blugeon with. Don't tell me that a compass has more force than a kirpan.

Anything that gives you length gives you leverage, and therefore an advantage. Not to mention, once again, that the kirpan LOOKS and is PERCIEVED BY SOCIETY to be a CERIMONIAL WEAPON.

I don't give a shit if it's sharp or not, or how much damage you claim it couldn't do. Keep the CERIMONIAL WEAPON at home.

SLR

03-03-2006, 11:36 PM

Originally posted by shakalaka

Just cauz of the fact that it looks like a knife doesn't mean it's a knife. Techinally and practically compass will do more damage if used in a fight then the Kirpan. Oh my GOD.

Technically I could commit suicide by sealing off my room completely and going to sleep after eating some mango chutney. (Gives me the bomb)

Edit: Sorry that was a useless post.. I don't mean to be a dickhead man.. but I can almost think of better "For" arguements than some of that stuff.

dansmith11

03-03-2006, 11:40 PM

Originally posted by shakalaka

Just cauz of the fact that it looks like a knife doesn't mean it's a knife. Techinally and practically compass will do more damage if used in a fight then the Kirpan.

how about the fact that you can use it to threaten and scare someone? if you held a compus up and told someone to fuck off, they would laugh at you, do the same with a knife, sharp of not, and youll get a differnet reaction.

and saying only really religous people will carry them is garbage. what about people using that as an exucse to carry a weapon?

or look at it this way, someone brings it for religous reasons, that person would never hurt someone. then you got some other kid whos a violent little bastard, comes along, takes it from the guy, and kills him with his own kirpan, or takes it and kills someone else.

just like you said, maybe its more likely to kill him then someone else. whats your point there? theres still someone dead. which could have been avoided had he not brought the thing. no one is saying he is gonna bring the thing to shcool and murder everyone. but it could still be dangerous in a number of other ways.

liquidboi69

03-03-2006, 11:48 PM

Man, that shakakak whatever name guy is so arrogant and ignorant. I like how hes at least standing up for him, but if I was in a fight, I choose Kirpan > Compass. Gj u stabbed a small hole in me, but u are missing half ur nose, cuz that thing will crush it.

shakalaka

03-03-2006, 11:51 PM

Originally posted by SLR
Oh my GOD.

Technically I could commit suicide by sealing off my room completely and going to sleep after eating some mango chutney. (Gives me the bomb)

Yet again...I fail to see what you are trying to imply by that.

But that being said...Like I said in my first post, I personally don't care since I never wore one or anything. And I do agree with Arif when he says their are always 'bad apples'. So it can be misused as well. I dont know man...I usually prefer to stay out of these kinda 'touchy' (for the lack of a better word) subjects. But what I think is what I said. I guess I just assumed that if someone is really religious that they wear a Kirpan (It's just not a Kirpan that Sikh's wear actually. It's part of 5 K's and they gotta get/wear and get baptized and everything...), that doing something illegal or illicit would be a big time no-no.

But I personally don't see this being any different then a compass. As a matter of fact I think the compass can be more dangerous. Even that Art and Craft blades, those big yellow color blades are atleast a 100 times sharper and dangerous then the freakin Kirpan. lol

shakalaka

03-03-2006, 11:55 PM

Man...whatever you guys say.

I personally see this being NO DIFFERENT then carrying a Swiss Knife or a blade.

snowboard

03-03-2006, 11:56 PM

Originally posted by shakalaka
Man...whatever you guys say.

I personally see this being NO DIFFERENT then carrying a Swiss Knife or a blade.

neither of those are aloud in schools.

A790

03-03-2006, 11:58 PM

Originally posted by snowboard

neither of those are aloud in schools.

Werd.

AsianCaucasian

03-04-2006, 12:01 AM

http://www.unitedsikhs.org/PressReleases/PRSRLS-16-03-2005-00.htm

A quote from the article: Moreover, a recent Canadian study revealed that there has never been a single reported incident of kirpan related violence in any North American school."

There seems to be a lot of ignorance going on in this thread. I don't claim to be an expert at all on Sikhs but I don't really fear a small blunt ceremonial dagger that's sheathed at all times in a wooden scabbard and sewn into the guy's garment, do you?

snowboard

03-04-2006, 12:01 AM

Originally posted by shakalaka

Don't tell me you never had one in your bag or carried one.

Not with the purpose of killing someone or holding up the school, but just for general utility purposes.

no word of a lie, never carried a pocket knife in my life, and if you were ever found with one at any of the schools i went too, man did you ever get shit on/suspended.

A790

03-04-2006, 12:06 AM

snowboard

03-04-2006, 12:10 AM

Originally posted by A790
School is a place of education, not religious worship (with the exception of the catholic system).

yes, exactly.
if he wore his kirpan to the sikh temple i can see that being acceptable. but not to school..

shakalaka

03-04-2006, 12:10 AM

Taken from the article
"Such a ban would have been especially unfortunate because schools do allow students to handle numerous items much more dangerous than a kirpan such as scissors, mathematical compasses, screwdrivers, and baseball bats."

Just to show what I was saying.

Plus...I TOTALLY fail to see how a two inch, blunt, without a proper handle, knife look alike object has more chances of hurting anyone than normal day to day objects.

shakalaka

03-04-2006, 12:12 AM

AsianCaucasian

03-04-2006, 12:12 AM

Originally posted by A790

In 1913 there weren't any world wars either. Few years later what happens?

And quite honestly, it's not necessarily about "fear". It's more a question of rights, and why we are changing fundamental systems. Accomodation and tolerance are one thing, but bending over and taking it is something else.

School is a place of education, not religious worship (with the exception of the catholic system). If you can't abide by the rules of the current school system, perhaps one should be created to do so. Either way, any weapon regardless of size/shape shouldn't be there.

Well then, lets do away with baseball bats as well. I'm sure a few members of beyond have used the good 'ol I'm Batman line before to threaten someone (well you never know if they actually did irl). I'm willing to place a bet that there's been more people murdered with scissors than with kirpans.

As for the question of rights, he does have the right to express his religion and one of the major tenents of the religion is to keep the kirpan with him at all times, even to sleep. I agree that it conflicts with the other student's right to safety but measures have been taken to ensure that safety will be upheld (wooden scabbard, sewn in garment, shorter than two inches, unsharpened etc) so I don't really see why there's such an uproar over the issue.

Canada has always been a cultural mosaic as opposed to a melting pot like the states. Everyone is always bitching and whining on this forum about how the states suck and how their policy is crap etc but when Canada does exactly what it has been doing for the past 50 years for cultural reform people tend to turn a blind eye.

shakalaka

03-04-2006, 12:14 AM

Originally posted by snowboard

yes, exactly.
if he wore his kirpan to the sikh temple i can see that being acceptable. but not to school..

It says that the 5 K's must be worn at ALL times. And not just when attendint the temple or things like that.

A790

03-04-2006, 12:16 AM

Originally posted by shakalaka

Well why allow immigrants in at all then?

Because 99% of them don't insist on wearing a weapon to school.

Why call the country a democracy at all then?
[/b][/quote]

Being democratic or not has very little to do with this issue.

shakalaka

03-04-2006, 12:19 AM

One of the definitions of democracy

"The principles of social equality and respect for the individual within a community."

Well anyways, maybe you don't know. Go to any school with Sikh's in it. Find someone who follows the religion, they will be wearing the Kirpan. Yes a minority prolly, but doesnt mean they dont get fuck all.

ZEDGE

03-04-2006, 12:23 AM

shakalaka

03-04-2006, 12:23 AM

O and the U.N. Declaration of Human Rights under Section 18 upholds the right to free practice of one's religion. I can type the whole section but I am pretty sure you all know that. Don't have to be a lawyer to know that section..but just to remind you it goes something like
"Everyone has the right to freedom of thought, conscience and religion...."

Mr_John

03-04-2006, 12:26 AM

to me although its a religious belief
and although as canadians we welcome the multiculturalism and other religions

we are still in canada
a country where people should be able to feel safe
other religions arent used to the religion of people wearing kirpans and feel threatened by it

E.K said it best a few posts ago, what if someone sharpens a knife, hides it, and calls it a kirpan

I also agree with the "gun" post by someone (sorry forgot who said it)
I wouldnt want to be around anyone with a gun strapped to themself at school- loaded or unloaded

SLR

03-04-2006, 12:26 AM

Originally posted by AsianCaucasian
http://www.unitedsikhs.org/PressReleases/PRSRLS-16-03-2005-00.htm

A quote from the article: Moreover, a recent Canadian study revealed that there has never been a single reported incident of kirpan related violence in any North American school.

Well, I found an incident where it happened:

http://www.performance-shop.com/yabbse/index.php?topic=35490.0

They said there is no record of any incidents ever recorded in Canadian schools involving a Kirpan....Schools are not likely to record anything like that, any incident like that is an embarrassment to the officials of the school..
I was the lucky opponent of a kid with a kirpan in high school, they say they are always dull edged... Umm not true.. After damn near breaking his wrist after he threatened me with it, he decided to leave the kirpan on the belt and resort to bringing a handgun to school, and waive that around.. That got him booted from school...
Just one kid, but when push came to shove, his buddies would all stand there with him ready to use theirs as well...
I see this as another "we have to tolerate their intolerance" subject... When is Canada going to have a direction and a stand on laws, we are rudderless when we bend to appease every group that comes to Canada.. And they wonder why we cant define what is Canadian... I think I have it though, Canadian is the incorporation of all the silliest ideals that makes the rest of the world the kind of place no one wants to live in...
I fail to see how people can be ignorant to the possibility of violence here...

Originally posted by A790
Being democratic or not has very little to do with this issue. [/B] And in theory it goes against the very principle of democracy... that being a majority rules.. this is clearly not a situation that the majority of Canadians participate in.

nismodrifter

03-04-2006, 12:27 AM

Originally posted by A790

School is a place of education, not religious worship (with the exception of the catholic system). If you can't abide by the rules of the current school system, perhaps one should be created to do so. Either way, any weapon regardless of size/shape shouldn't be there.

ORLY? What about people who wear their crosses around their neck at all times? Is that not a sign of religoius worship. They too should not be allowed to wear one if we follow your suggestion.

A kirpan is not a knife by any means. Sikhs consider the Kirpan a symbol of courage and of their obligation to help those in need. That being said, I can't really think of any NORMAL circumstances that would even result in the kirpan being taken out. It would never happen.

http://www.unitedsikhs.org/PressReleases/PRSRLS-07-03-2005-00.htm

SLR

03-04-2006, 12:31 AM

Originally posted by nismodrifter

ORLY? What about people who wear their crosses around their neck at all times? Is that not a sign of religoius worship. They too should not be allowed to wear one if we follow your suggestion.

A kirpan is not a knife by any means. Sikhs consider the Kirpan a symbol of courage and of their obligation to help those in need. That being said, I can't really think of any NORMAL circumstances that would even result in the kirpan being taken out. It would never happen.

http://www.unitedsikhs.org/PressReleases/PRSRLS-07-03-2005-00.htm

The cross around the neck isnt a knife that can be used to kill someone.

The kirpan looks, feels and probably smells like a knife... so I would wager it is indeed a knife. It's very appearance would not be considered a "sumbol of courage justice and freedom" by someone who didnt know the definition... they would call it a knife.. those are the people that probably make up the majority. I did not know what it was until I came on beyond.ca

shakalaka

03-04-2006, 12:33 AM

Originally posted by Mr_John
to me although its a religious belief
and although as canadians we welcome the multiculturalism and other religions

we are still in canada
a country where people should be able to feel safe
other religions arent used to the religion of people wearing kirpans and feel threatened by it

E.K said it best a few posts ago, what if someone sharpens a knife, hides it, and calls it a kirpan

I also agree with the "gun" post by someone (sorry forgot who said it)
I wouldnt want to be around anyone with a gun strapped to themself at school- loaded or unloaded

Ok maybe i am an ignorant fool..
I just fucking FAIL to understand HOW a 2 inch long blunt knife shaped metal sewed in a sheath which is hidden all the time under the clothes can scare anyone. You guys just sound like pussies (for the lack of a better term yet again) to me. Honestly...just how! I would find a guy running towards me with a pair of scissors more scary.

snowboard

03-04-2006, 12:34 AM

AsianCaucasian

03-04-2006, 12:36 AM

Originally posted by SLR

The cross around the neck isnt a knife that can be used to kill someone.

The kirpan looks, feels and probably smells like a knife... so I would wager it is indeed a knife. It's very appearance would not be considered a "sumbol of courage justice and freedom" by someone who didnt know the definition... they would call it a knife.. those are the people that probably make up the majority. I did not know what it was until I came on beyond.ca

If you didn't even know what it was before you came across it here why are you posting? If you don't like the way Canada handles it's cultural issues, why don't you pack up your stuff and move down south, I think there's a state named Texas that would be just perfect for you. Canada has always been this way and it's known internationally as a safe haven for anyone to practice their cultural and religious beliefs without fear of reprisal. And what do you mean that it is a place that no one wants to live in? Canada is a hot spot for immigration from everywhere in the world, especially now that South Asia is emerging. If you are so ignorant on the issue don't spread it here.

shakalaka

03-04-2006, 12:37 AM

Originally posted by SLR

Well, I found an incident where it happened:

http://www.performance-shop.com/yabbse/index.php?topic=35490.0

I fail to see how people can be ignorant to the possibility of violence here...

And in theory it goes against the very principle of democracy... that being a majority rules.. this is clearly not a situation that the majority of Canadians participate in.

DUDE!
You are quoting something that some random dude on some forums said that happened to him. OMFG man! holy shit.

I will tell you man, this once I was studying normally and this dude came upto me with a cross in his hands and smacked me across my head almost making me unconscious, I almost got killed man. Honestly man crosses should be banned, so dangerous:rolleyes:

shakalaka

03-04-2006, 12:37 AM

Originally posted by snowboard

true that, learn a new thing every day from beyond
the argument is getting harder to press, but the bottom line is it is most likely veiwed as a weapon by the majority..
i dunno its hard to say, when you describe it as a small hunk of metal with no sharpness or handle, it sways my opinion.
but im sure they arent ALL like that.

The one's that have been approved to be worn in schools will be like that.

SLR

03-04-2006, 12:41 AM

Umm it was even posted on here that they can range from half an inch to 4 feet or so.

The picture in the paper had the kid wearing one of significant size.. comparable to a decent sized hunting knife.

As for the dull and blunt comment... I dont think it really matters if it is sharpened, it just means youll less likely get slashed... rather stabbed. If it comes at you with any intentional force, you are gonna get hurt plain and simple.

The simple fact it exists and is now an element in the school system should be of concern. If you are of that particular religion, you allowed to be armed with a knife at school. That being said, the government probably cannot regulate the size and dimensions of the knife, so in theory a kid could bring a 2 foot sword to school.

This is rediculous.

xcelr8

03-04-2006, 12:41 AM

i wouldnt mind at all, but some kids attending school are immature and do irrational decisions

and that is the reason why they put an age limit on things like voting, knives, guns, drinking

and i remember in grade 9, a kid brought empty bullet shells to school in his locker, he immediatly got expelled. even though empty bullet shells cant do any harm. but having a kirpan shown could even temp them, or other kids to grab at it and use it

TeamBestBud

03-04-2006, 12:41 AM

Originally posted by shakalaka

DUDE!
You are quoting something that some random dude on some forums said that happened to him. OMFG man! holy shit.

I will tell you man, this once I was studying normally and this dude came upto me with a huge cross in his hands and smacked me across my head making me faint and it had a sharp end to it and he almost stabbed me with it:rolleyes:
:drama:

wow some1's getting upset lol

im a Sikh and i no for a fact tht the Kirpan isnt carried around in ur pocket liek a knife. Its a religious symbol and like some ppl wear the cross around there necks, the Kirpan is worn on a belt aroudn the shoulders and hangs at the waist in a sheath. Its not pointed, its dull and curved at the end. Ive only seen them pulled out and used in religious ceremonies.

Weapon_R

03-04-2006, 12:41 AM

Originally posted by shakalaka

Ok maybe i am an ignorant fool..
I just fucking FAIL to understand HOW a 2 inch long blunt knife shaped metal sewed in a sheath which is hidden all the time under the clothes can scare anyone. You guys just sound like pussies (for the lack of a better term yet again) to me. Honestly...just how! I would find a guy running towards me with a pair of scissors more scary.

I'm not sure how big the schools have allowed, but isn't this typically what a Kirpan looks like?:

http://www.mef.qc.ca/images/kirpan.gif

Mr_John

03-04-2006, 12:43 AM

Originally posted by shakalaka

Ok maybe i am an ignorant fool..
I just fucking FAIL to understand HOW a 2 inch long blunt knife shaped metal sewed in a sheath which is hidden all the time under the clothes can scare anyone. You guys just sound like pussies (for the lack of a better term yet again) to me. Honestly...just how! I would find a guy running towards me with a pair of scissors more scary.

i did a yahoo search quickly on kirpan
http://images.waheguroo.com/news/content/1406.1.jpg

that doesnt look like something i would want to be stabbed with, although kirpans are not sharpened, again, who says that someone doesnt sharpen it and use it

SLR

03-04-2006, 12:44 AM

Originally posted by shakalaka

DUDE!
You are quoting something that some random dude on some forums said that happened to him. OMFG man! holy shit.

I will tell you man, this once I was studying normally and this dude came upto me with a huge cross in his hands and smacked me across my head making me faint and it had a sharp end to it and he almost stabbed me with it:rolleyes:

So claim Im ignorant by posting a site up called "unitedsikhs" and say it is 100% accurate. :rolleyes: That in itself proved how groundless anything you have said in here is.

You think this "study" covered absolutely every single human being in Canada and north america?

I personally did not recieve any sort of call asking if I had a violent encounter with a Kirpan. :dunno:

So you are saying if it isn't on record... then it doesn't happen? Which would mean people who have not gone public with their basement grow operations do not exist either...

AsianCaucasian

03-04-2006, 12:45 AM

Originally posted by Mr_John

that doesnt look like something i would want to be stabbed with, although kirpans are not sharped, again, who says that someone doesnt sharpen it and use it

Would you like to be stabbed if i took my pair of scissors and sharpened it? Or hey, I'll just grab the metre stick off the chalkboard, look out guys I'm dangerous.

TeamBestBud

03-04-2006, 12:45 AM

http://www.sikhpoint.com/religion/sikhshrines/anandpursahib/images/kirpan.jpg

AsianCaucasian

03-04-2006, 12:46 AM

Originally posted by SLR

So claim Im ignorant by posting a site up called "unitedsikhs" and say it is 100% accurate. :rolleyes: That in itself proved how groundless anything you have said in here is.

You think this "study" covered absolutely every single human being in Canada and north america?

I personally did not recieve any sort of call asking if I had a violent encounter with a Kirpan. :dunno:

So you are saying if it isn't on record... then it doesn't happen? Which would mean people who have not gone public with their basement grow operations do not exist either...

I was actually trying to find the article I read on cbc the other day about it. It was stated that not only was there never an incident with the kirpan used violently in a school within Canada, but there is no record of it ever happening internationally either.

shakalaka

03-04-2006, 12:46 AM

Originally posted by Weapon_R

I'm not sure how big the schools have allowed, but isn't this typically what a Kirpan looks like?:

http://www.mef.qc.ca/images/kirpan.gif

hahah no man!

Kirpan means Sword!

So when you search on google its possible you get swords. Not really possible to wear things that big around your shoulder.
If you read the article the size allowed is 2 inches and the way its sewed in teh sheath, it can't be pulled it. 2 FREAKING INCHES MAN!

shakalaka

03-04-2006, 12:47 AM

Originally posted by Mr_John

i did a yahoo search quickly on kirpan
http://images.waheguroo.com/news/content/1406.1.jpg

that doesnt look like something i would want to be stabbed with, although kirpans are not sharpened, again, who says that someone doesnt sharpen it and use it

man thats the one thats used in the temple during ceremonies and not carry around. Maybe long time ago when they didnt have diff. sizes. The ones now are nothing close to it.

snowboard

03-04-2006, 12:48 AM

SLR

03-04-2006, 12:48 AM

My excuse for not being out on a friday night is that it's cold out. :rofl:

What's all of yours? :rofl::rofl:

Shakalaka, can you post the source of the regulated "2 inches" ?

Weapon_R

03-04-2006, 12:49 AM

Originally posted by shakalaka

hahah no man!

Kirpan means Sword!

So when you search on google its possible you get swords. Not really possible to wear things that big around your shoulder.
If you read the article the size allowed is 2 inches and the way its sewed in teh sheath, it can't be pulled it. 2 FREAKING INCHES MAN!

haha im just trying to figure out where the problem lies. Typing Kirpan brings out some pretty scary looking weapons :rofl:

shakalaka

03-04-2006, 12:49 AM

Originally posted by SLR

So claim Im ignorant by posting a site up called "unitedsikhs" and say it is 100% accurate. :rolleyes: That in itself proved how groundless anything you have said in here is.

You think this "study" covered absolutely every single human being in Canada and north america?

I personally did not recieve any sort of call asking if I had a violent encounter with a Kirpan. :dunno:

So you are saying if it isn't on record... then it doesn't happen? Which would mean people who have not gone public with their basement grow operations do not exist either...

It would be reported if it was that big of an issue. and 'united sikhs' you speak of and the statements made by them are backed by lawyers. and that obviously will be based on facts and certainly not groundless? jumping to conclusions are we?

snowboard

03-04-2006, 12:50 AM

Originally posted by shakalaka

hahah no man!

Kirpan means Sword!

So when you search on google its possible you get swords. Not really possible to wear things that big around your shoulder.
If you read the article the size allowed is 2 inches and the way its sewed in teh sheath, it can't be pulled it. 2 FREAKING INCHES MAN!

there not gunna pat down every sikh, and hold a ruller up to the sheath and make sure its sewed in though...

AsianCaucasian

03-04-2006, 12:50 AM

Man, some of the other browns better step up in this thread. Can't let a chink defend you all can you? :rofl:

Mr_John

03-04-2006, 12:51 AM

Originally posted by AsianCaucasian

Would you like to be stabbed if i took my pair of scissors and sharpened it? Or hey, I'll just grab the metre stick off the chalkboard, look out guys I'm dangerous.

no i wouldnt want to be stabbed by a sharp pair of scissors, i dont want to be stabbed by anything actually
will it hurt? probably not too badly and it wont kill me, doesnt mean that its not a danger to public safety. I dont want to lose an eyeball either
and a meter stick is just ridiculous, how can you even compare the two UNLESS the meter stick was sharp as hell

here's the point:
i dont disagree with the belief of the kirpan
but if my child had to go to school with people wearing kirpans then i would be a little worried
cuz you never know if one of those psychos will sharpen their's and use it as a weapon

SLR

03-04-2006, 12:51 AM

Originally posted by shakalaka

It would be reported if it was that big of an issue. and 'united sikhs' you speak of and the statements made by them are backed by lawyers. and that obviously will be based on facts and certainly not groundless? jumping to conclusions are we? :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: Come on :rolleyes:

AsianCaucasian

03-04-2006, 12:53 AM

Originally posted by Mr_John

no i wouldnt want to be stabbed by a sharp pair of scissors, i dont want to be stabbed by anything actually
will it hurt? probably not too badly and it wont kill me, doesnt mean that its not a danger to public safety. I dont want to lose an eyeball either
and a meter stick is just ridiculous, how can you even compare the two UNLESS the meter stick was sharp as hell

here's the point:
i dont disagree with the belief of the kirpan
but if my child had to go to school with people wearing kirpans then i would be a little worried
cuz you never know if one of those psychos will sharpen their's and use it as a weapon

I was pointing out the fact that a lot of things in the common classroom can be used as weapons and could be equally dangerous as the kirpan. For example, scissors, meter sticks, hell i could probably jam a piece of chalk in someone's eye. I bet the edges of my desk are pretty sharp, it would be pretty unfortunate if i picked it up and threw it at someone. Hey! these pencils look pointy!

shakalaka

03-04-2006, 12:53 AM

Originally posted by SLR
:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: Come on :rolleyes:

O really nice. I see EXACTLY what you saying. Saying my statements are groundless. Man just go find a goat.:rolleyes:

snowboard

03-04-2006, 12:53 AM

Originally posted by AsianCaucasian
Man, some of the other browns better step up in this thread. Can't let a chink defend you all can you? :rofl:

one messaged me, and i messaged him back, with the inclusion of "join the thread and voice your opinion" but he never showed up.

SLR

03-04-2006, 12:54 AM

Originally posted by shakalaka

O really nice. I see EXACTLY what you saying. Saying my statements are groundless. Man just go find a goat.:rolleyes: I was laughing at how you said "And those statements are backed by lawyers.. so its true" etc.

Lawyers also said OJ was innocent. :nut:

shakalaka

03-04-2006, 12:54 AM

Originally posted by snowboard

there not gunna pat down every sikh, and hold a ruller up to the sheath and make sure its sewed in though...

Yea once the law is passed on the size, don't think it would be hard to prosecute the one's that break it.

AsianCaucasian

03-04-2006, 12:54 AM

Originally posted by SLR
I was laughing at how you said "And those statements are backed by lawyers.. so its true" etc.

Lawyers also said OJ was innocent. :nut:

Heh, I'll have to agree with you on that point.

shakalaka

03-04-2006, 12:56 AM

Originally posted by SLR
I was laughing at how you said "And those statements are backed by lawyers.. so its true" etc.

Lawyers also said OJ was innocent. :nut:
I prolly would have said the same thing if I wasn't in law school. but my opinion has been changed, they are not just 'baseless' or 'groundless' facts they have to be proven like a no tom. well anyways Ok man fine! Everyone is wrong...lawyers are wrong, their facts are wrong. Alright..you are the only right one. you happy now? just let them goats go though.

SLR

03-04-2006, 12:57 AM

Shaka, i didnt start this thread to spread hate for Sikh's, not in the slightest. I was aiming simply at the passing of the law. There is nothing personal intended from any of my posts, I just wanted to see the arguements and debate.

Originally posted by shakalaka

Ok man fine! Everyone is wrong...lawyers are wrong, their facts are wrong. Alright..you are the only right one. you happy now? just let them goats go though. Man! You don't get it! You questioned the integrity of my source, so I questioned the integrity of yours... Are you drunk?

TeamBestBud

03-04-2006, 12:57 AM

Originally posted by AsianCaucasian
Man, some of the other browns better step up in this thread. Can't let a chink defend you all can you? :rofl:

Big ups to my yellow brother haha

Mr_John

03-04-2006, 12:58 AM

Originally posted by AsianCaucasian

I was pointing out the fact that a lot of things in the common classroom can be used as weapons and could be equally dangerous as the kirpan. For example, scissors, meter sticks, hell i could probably jam a piece of chalk in someone's eye. I bet the edges of my desk are pretty sharp, it would be pretty unfortunate if i picked it up and threw it at someone. Hey! these pencils look pointy!

you're just being absurd now
so just because an unloaded gun is no threat to anyone
should we all be able to carry one around as we please?

yes school items are sharp and can be dangerous, but those are needed in the school to learn
what is the kirpan gonna do for the rest of us?

i hope i dont come off as sounding like a racist or anything close to that
i just disagree with the ruling

AsianCaucasian

03-04-2006, 12:59 AM

Originally posted by Mr_John

you're just being absurd now
so just because an unloaded gun is no threat to anyone
should we all be able to carry one around as we please?

yes school items are sharp and can be dangerous, but those are needed in the school to learn
what is the kirpan gonna do for the rest of us?

i hope i dont come off as sounding like a racist or anything close to that
i just disagree with the ruling

Again, there is the conflict between your right to learn and another student's right to express his religion. It does nothing for you if he wears his kirpan but I bet it means a whole lot to him.

TeamBestBud

03-04-2006, 12:59 AM

Originally posted by SLR
Shaka, i didnt start this thread to spread hate for Sikh's, not in the slightest. I was aiming simply at the passing of the law. There is nothing personal intended from any of my posts, I just wanted to see the arguements and debate.

:werd: i see where ur comin from...if u dunt understand somethin u cant be sure of it right? shaka's goin all freedom fighter on ur ass, when it should be me doin tht haha i have a turban but im not baptized so i dunt carry a Kirpan but while readin through this thread i decided to keep an open mind and see what evryones stance on it is instead of just being radically on one side

snowboard

03-04-2006, 12:59 AM

Originally posted by Mr_John

i hope i dont come off as sounding like a racist or anything close to that
i just disagree with the ruling

same boat
my first post WAS ignorant, but shit like this gets me going.
my apologies.

SLR

03-04-2006, 01:01 AM

Originally posted by shakalaka

I prolly would have said the same thing if I wasn't in law school. but my opinion has been changed, they are not just 'baseless' or 'groundless' facts they have to be proven like a no tom. well anyways Ok man fine! You don't edit fast enough.

The study couldn't possibly have covered all of North America. Stop drinking and edit faster so that you stop getting owned.

Mr_John

03-04-2006, 01:02 AM

Originally posted by shakalaka

I prolly would have said the same thing if I wasn't in law school. but my opinion has been changed, they are not just 'baseless' or 'groundless' facts they have to be proven like a no tom. well anyways Ok man fine! Everyone is wrong...lawyers are wrong, their facts are wrong. Alright..you are the only right one. you happy now? just let them goats go though.

people who are heavily into the religion and who wear one SHOULD fight for their belief

but you cant deny that people are fighting for their safety

its a safety concern with people, thats understandable....no?
safety concerns are always a sensitive issue, especially when religion is connected