US nearing credit limit

[01RedDX]

.

[roopi]

He should go to war. :rofl:

[Kirbs17]

:eek: :eek:

[ninjak84]

Holy shit!

The government needs Congressional authority to borrow and the total accumulated debt is now close to its limit of $8.2 trillion

haha I can just picture Bush trying to pay for a large expensive meal for a group..... Then having the waiter whisper in his ear that his credit card was denied :rofl:

"Sorry sir. You've apparently exceeded your limit of 8 trillion dollars"

:rofl:

On a serious note, I wonder how this is going to affect world affairs....

[Charon]

I know nothing of finances... but whom do you get a loan for 8.2 trillion from ?

Some honest fellow in nigeria ?

[PaPa LuV]

no wonder the canadian dollar is on a 14 year high. 0.88 cents

[toyboy88]

Originally posted by roopi
He should go to war. :rofl:

:poosie:

[bituerbo]

Originally posted by Charon
I know nothing of finances... but whom do you get a loan for 8.2 trillion from ?

Some honest fellow in nigeria ?

You sir, deserve sig space.

[nadroj23]

^^^:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

[handsomebassman]

Well this is what happens when you have a severly handicapped cowboy in office.

Now it'll be young guys and girls, just like us, in the states paying off Bush's debt for the rest of their lives.



:guns:

[blueToy]

Originally posted by handsomebassman
Well this is what happens when you have a severly handicapped cowboy in office.

Now it'll be young guys and girls, just like us, in the states paying off Bush's debt for the rest of their lives.



:guns:


Sorry Bassdude , as much as I loath the ' Cowboy ' , this is not all his fault . Wracking up 8.5 trillion dollars in debt has been the result of many past failured Administrations . Also , we ourselves in Canada have a huge debt too , some $400 billion . If you look around ,you'll see that most democratic countires have prospured out of being a second or third world status by spending , spending , spending . It has been a wild ride , and totally unrealistic for sooo long that we all just take it in stride because the ' Think Tanks ' and special lobby groups advise us to . YIKES !!

[handsomebassman]

^^^yea i suppose thats another way to look at it. But you have to admit that bush HAS been on a spending spree since in office.

[ninjak84]

Originally posted by blueToy
Also , we ourselves in Canada have a huge debt too , some $400 billion .


Originally posted by handsomebassman
But you have to admit that bush HAS been on a spending spree since in office.

Yeah, everyone should know that Bush has accumulated way more than $400 billion toward the debt since he became President (the war cost some $200billion, New Orleans about a trillion....). It's entirely fair to say that he's racked up more debt in his Presidency than Canada has in its entire history.

[Phy]

Wouldn't be a thing if you could get every woman, man and child in America to pony up $28,000.

[khtm]

Originally posted by blueToy



Sorry Bassdude , as much as I loath the ' Cowboy ' , this is not all his fault . Wracking up 8.5 trillion dollars in debt has been the result of many past failured Administrations . Also , we ourselves in Canada have a huge debt too , some $400 billion . If you look around ,you'll see that most democratic countires have prospured out of being a second or third world status by spending , spending , spending . It has been a wild ride , and totally unrealistic for sooo long that we all just take it in stride because the ' Think Tanks ' and special lobby groups advise us to . YIKES !!
In Clinton's 8 years in office, the US debt increased by 1.6 trillion. Bush has already increased it by 2.7 trillion in 5 years. And people speculate that it could pass 11 trillion by 2010 at the current rate.

Hard to put it all on Bush though, as part of Clinton's economic success could of course by linked to the stock market boom during his time in office.

If anyone's interested, here's the CIA's rankings of different countries' debts:

http://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/rankorder/2079rank.html

[Phy]

So the world is 12.7 trillion in debt.

WHO the fuck TO? :confused:

[benyl]

Bush's main problem is that he cut taxes. The war and the disasters just added to the problem. It is his economic policy that has put him in the situation he is in.

The 8.2 Trillion is just made up money. Any of you who took econ know that the US government "prints" that money out of thin air. Sure, there are some foreign bank that may also be involved, but most of it is owed to the future generations of the US that will have to pay down that debt.

Also, having debt isn't a bad thing. You can always sell infrastructure like roads to pay for that debt. Plus, why should this generation pay for the roads that the next generation is going to use?

[benyl]

Originally posted by Phy
So the world is 12.7 trillion in debt.

WHO the fuck TO? :confused:

To their own respective countries and possibly a portion to other countries.

Where do you think money comes from? Governments print it out of thin air.

[blueToy]

Originally posted by handsomebassman
^^^yea i suppose thats another way to look at it. But you have to admit that bush HAS been on a spending spree since in office.

They've all been living " la Vita loca " . Absolutely criminal , in my mind . When this rickety house of cards fall , it's gonna fall HARD .

[blueToy]

If anyone's interested, here's the CIA's rankings of different countries' debts:

http://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/rankorder/2079rank.html [/B][/QUOTE]



LOL , yeah , there's some unbiased information . :eek:
Also , according to a article recently published ( shoveled ) by the Hearld , Canada's debt was around $400 billion . Sorry , no linky , but , even if it is around $600-700 billion as the CIA says it is , thats still whacked for our small population . How the hell did this happen is what we'll end up saying one day .

[rc2002]

I don't think the US debt is a huge deal. The American dollar will never collapse... The countries with strong economies just won't let it happen because they'd have no one to export their goods to.




Originally posted by Phy
So the world is 12.7 trillion in debt.

WHO the fuck TO? :confused:

A lot of countries are in debt to it's own citizens. i.e. Canada savings bonds.

[blueToy]

Originally posted by Phy
So the world is 12.7 trillion in debt.

WHO the fuck TO? :confused:

Other countries . Banks . Insurance conglomerates . Organized crime lords . You name it , they probably are holding a balance with them .

[Phy]

Ahh. I honestly didn't know how they calculate it. I was hoping it was something simpler, like everyone owes it to everyone else, or we all owe it to aliens.

[Xtrema]

Originally posted by khtm
http://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/rankorder/2079rank.html

So who does the world owe to?

BTW, each Canadian owes $20K which is only 1/3 less than US citizens.

[blueToy]

Originally posted by benyl
Bush's main problem is that he cut taxes. The war and the disasters just added to the problem. It is his economic policy that has put him in the situation he is in.

The 8.2 Trillion is just made up money. Any of you who took econ know that the US government "prints" that money out of thin air. Sure, there are some foreign bank that may also be involved, but most of it is owed to the future generations of the US that will have to pay down that debt.

Also, having debt isn't a bad thing. You can always sell infrastructure like roads to pay for that debt. Plus, why should this generation pay for the roads that the next generation is going to use?



Bush's main problem was that he was handed a pail full of crap and he's trying to build a empire out of it . The fallacy of this empire staying at the top has seriously been erroded in the last several years ( even dozens ) , but with the awakening of India and China , it's starting to crumble fast .

[CKY]

Originally posted by benyl
Bush's main problem is that he cut taxes. The war and the disasters just added to the problem. It is his economic policy that has put him in the situation he is in.


:werd:

Here (http://www.toptips.com/debtclock.html) is a live debt clock of how much the United States is in debt by the second.

[blueToy]

Originally posted by Phy
Ahh. I honestly didn't know how they calculate it. I was hoping it was something simpler, like everyone owes it to everyone else, or we all owe it to aliens.


There was some very serious papers written after sept 11 about global economy , and all the smoke and mirrors and missinformation being scattered in " the developed nations " . Lots of very interesting info concerning how lots of governments say one thing , yet do another . An example of this , probably disscussed here before , is how the US has monopolies on commodoties traded in the world . Look at oil , for example . ALL traded in US dollars . The only country ever to try and break from this was Afghanistan , who started trading oil for Eruos . OUCH . Why is this relavent ? Because over the last fifty years , OWNING the trading rights has allowed American to write blank cheques for purchases or debts , etc . It doesn't matter that they have nothing to back this cheque as long as they have complete control over something everybody else wants , needs and uses .
The great irony here though , is that monopolies are against the law in the US .
Another ,and more important commodity is weapons . The US is also the largest trader on earth from everything like bullets to planes and such . They're biggest enemy here was the USSR , and well , we know what happened there .

So ,as long as they can keep the appearance or illusion that they are stable and in control , well , they don't get knocked off the hill and sent tumbling into the Abyss along with Britain , The Romans , The Egyptians , etc ....


Sorry , no links and that just my 2 loonies worth .

[Altezza]

Originally posted by richardchan2002
I don't think the US debt is a huge deal. The American dollar will never collapse... The countries with strong economies just won't let it happen because they'd have no one to export their goods to.


A low dollar serves to help their exports. The american economy is not in a strong a position as you may think.

- increasing trade deficit
- increasing borrowng costs
- increasing consumer debt
- reduced consumer spending
- slowing of the housing market
- continued globalization of american jobs
- continued high energy prices

They've got their work cut out for them if they don't want to see recession in '07-'08.

[Weapon_R]

Originally posted by benyl
Bush's main problem is that he cut taxes. The war and the disasters just added to the problem. It is his economic policy that has put him in the situation he is in.

The 8.2 Trillion is just made up money. Any of you who took econ know that the US government "prints" that money out of thin air. Sure, there are some foreign bank that may also be involved, but most of it is owed to the future generations of the US that will have to pay down that debt.

Also, having debt isn't a bad thing. You can always sell infrastructure like roads to pay for that debt. Plus, why should this generation pay for the roads that the next generation is going to use?

Problem is you can't print up money without being able to back it up, and that is where the problem is. 8.2trillion owed in bonds is a huge problem for the U.S. when these shareholders cash in their money. I have a feeling that they will want their money at around the same time.

[rc2002]

Originally posted by Altezza


A low dollar serves to help their exports. The american economy is not in a strong a position as you may think.

- increasing trade deficit
- increasing borrowng costs
- increasing consumer debt
- reduced consumer spending
- slowing of the housing market
- continued globalization of american jobs
- continued high energy prices

They've got their work cut out for them if they don't want to see recession in '07-'08.

^ That's true. What I meant was other countries exporting to the United States wouldn't benefit from a poor american economy. American economy falling is bad news for everyone.

[saiyajin]

Originally posted by richardchan2002


^ That's true. What I meant was other countries exporting to the United States wouldn't benefit from a poor american economy. American economy falling is bad news for everyone.

especially us here, in Canada

[benyl]

Originally posted by Weapon_R


Problem is you can't print up money without being able to back it up, and that is where the problem is. 8.2trillion owed in bonds is a huge problem for the U.S. when these shareholders cash in their money. I have a feeling that they will want their money at around the same time.

That is only the case for public government bonds.

If the treasury issues a bond to the government, it will never call on the debt as it would have to pay itself (which would defeat the purpose).

[benyl]

Originally posted by richardchan2002


^ That's true. What I meant was other countries exporting to the United States wouldn't benefit from a poor american economy. American economy falling is bad news for everyone.

Yes, but their exports will be more desireable.

[ninjak84]

Originally posted by benyl
The 8.2 Trillion is just made up money.

I'm guessing you don't have a Visa..... or any money.
If you don't want people to assume that about you, then you shouldn't make statements like that.

A countries national debt is a very real number. I'd suggest skipping your econ class just once, and sitting in on an international studies class. You think 3rd world countries can just run up a debt to become developed? Because it "isn't a real number"? :nut:

[Goblin]

^ Good point.

Notice how Gaza Strip and Wetbank have a debt of zero? Wow.

[ZEDGE]

Originally posted by ninjak84




Yeah, everyone should know that Bush has accumulated way more than $400 billion toward the debt since he became President (the war cost some $200billion, New Orleans about a trillion....). It's entirely fair to say that he's racked up more debt in his Presidency than Canada has in its entire history.


ummmm yea cause Bush caused Katrina......... :nut:

[frostyda9]

Originally posted by Weapon_R


I have a feeling that they will want their money at around the same time.

:thumbsup: One thing you can count on to hold it's value within a reasonable range regardless of economic conditions is gold bullion. It would appear that quite a few people have been hedging their bets a little in the last few years...

IMO a collapse of the US economy is absolutely plausible. Time will tell

http://www.kitco.com/LFgif/au1825nyb.gif

[Alex_FORD]

Originally posted by benyl
The 8.2 Trillion is just made up money.

I wish I could pay my taxes that way, too!

[ninjak84]

Originally posted by ZEDGE
ummmm yea cause Bush caused Katrina......... :nut:

Thanks :rolleyes: I didn't say he caused Katrina. That wasn't my point. He had to pay for it and deal with it though.

[ZEDGE]

Originally posted by ninjak84


Thanks :rolleyes: I didn't say he caused Katrina. That wasn't my point. He had to pay for it and deal with it though.

In the context of your post you said Bush Accumulated.... like it was his fault or something. I dont think you can throw a natural disaster in the mix and use it as an example of how Bush has racked up the debt.

[handsomebassman]

Originally posted by ZEDGE


In the context of your post you said Bush Accumulated.... like it was his fault or something. I dont think you can throw a natural disaster in the mix and use it as an example of how Bush has racked up the debt.

Id like to think that maybe it was bush's ignorance that attracted the storm :D

[Celica TVS3]

Originally posted by Weapon_R


Problem is you can't print up money without being able to back it up, and that is where the problem is. 8.2trillion owed in bonds is a huge problem for the U.S. when these shareholders cash in their money. I have a feeling that they will want their money at around the same time.

I've herd this before but i don't understand the logic. States issue debt in the form of bonds for fixed periods of time. When the USA runs a deficit it issues bonds for differing lengths for time - 1yr, 3yr, 5yr, 10yr, 30yr... The bonds are purchased at a discount, owners of the bond are paid x% interest by the government, finally upon maturity the government is obligated to pay the owner a previously set price for the bond. The owner of the bond, in most cases, doesn't have the right to cash in the bonds early for par value from the issuer.

That logic does apply to cash and certain aspects of bonds. If the international community does lose confidence in the America’s ability to repay their debt obligations there would obviously reduced demand for US bonds, causing bond prices on the secondary market to fall (think GM bonds). Also the US government bonds are purchased in USD – if nobody is purchasing US bonds it follows that there would be reduced demand for US dollars which would have been needed to buy them.

But this is so complicated and has so many variables it can’t be summarized in one post. Someone should teach a class on this stuff.:rofl:

[benyl]

anyway, katrina and the war are fractions of that debt.

The war in Iraq is at 250 Billion now. It isn't the major cause of the debt.

[Altezza]

To whom does the US owe some of this money? Look east. China and Japan are major creditors to the USA. As of 2004, foreigners held $2.2 trillion, roughly 40%, of US Treasury securities at the time. China itself accounted for half a trillion. Those numbers have risen over the past years. If this money were to ever pull out of the USA, interest rates would feel instant upward pressure.