some advice on buying Subaru

[Cypresskilla]

Hey, thought you guys would be the best to ask. I've decided to start looking for a new car and i've decided to go Subaru. of course if i had my choice it would be the STI but there still pretty pricey, so it will probabaly be a WRX. I've read alot of stuff on different forums. some postive some negative. I was hoping you guys could give me some advice as to what year and mods to stay away from and which ones to look for. Also i hear alot of people complain about the trans and clutches in these cars and the Calgary Subaru dealerships sound like a bunch of pricks to deal with.

[heavyD]

I haven't heard any postives about Calgary Subaru dealerships. In fact I've never heard so many horror stories. I believe the Edmonton Subaru dealers are better but I'm sure one of the Subaru guys on these boards can clarify.

[mac_82]

Subaru of Calgary and Centaur are both ok at best, nothing amazing about them, but nothing bad has happened to me there. I have heard a couple of bad stories about Centaur. rally Subaru in Edmonton is the best dealership in the province by far.

For under $2500 you can make a WRX as fast as an STi, but don't forget about all the lil extras the STi has, 6 speed tranny, brakes, suspension, nicer interior, .5 L of displacement....

Most of the negative feedback about WRX's is the weaker 5MT, and Subaru in general for thin paint. Many of the mechanical faults (5MT) have been fixed since mid 03. The other faults lie in newbie stick owners, newbie AWD owners, and people who side step the clutch at 6k and wonder why it went boom.

[mac_82]

Also the 06+ WRX's have a 2.5L motor, while the 02-05 have 2.0Ls.

[heavyD]

Originally posted by mac_82
The other faults lie in newbie stick owners, newbie AWD owners, and people who side step the clutch at 6k and wonder why it went boom.

DSM guys have been saying this for years.;)

[Cypresskilla]

I've noticed a couple of 02 wrx's for sale. Is the tranny problems true with these or for the most part are the 2002's good.

(whats 5MT?)

[mac_82]

5MT = 5 speed manual transmission.

The main problem with the 02 wrx's is the thickness of the gears. In 03 they started using RA width gears, which are thicker and stronger. Any Subaru dealer who rebuilds an 02 tranny will be using the newer 03+ thicker gears.

[benyl]

Originally posted by mac_82

For under $2500 you can make a WRX as fast as an STi


um....



:confused: :confused: :confused:

On topic.

Go south of the boarder. For what you pay for a WRX here in Canada, you can get an STi down south.

[JAYMEZ]

I thought the sales people at Centaur were crap , so I went to charles english and got the Subaru there. But Charles english's service/repairs place is the worse I have ever experienced in my life, just complete crap, so I get serviced at Centaur.

If you have the option between STI and WRX , just go for the STi , you will not be dissapointed.

[That.Guy.S30]

are you buying new or used?

the newest 2006 wrx is by far the best. 2.5L of displacement and on top of that you get 4/2 pot front/rear brakes.

dont forget that subaru also has the legacy gt. that thing is nice.

[xrayvsn]

As Benyl said, buy a Subaru from the US. An STI imported from the US will cost you a few thousand more than a loaded 06 WRX from Canada. Dealers in Canada do not seem to want to go much below MSRP, while this is not always the case in the US. At this point, I don't see why one would buy a new Subaru from a Canadian dealership.

There are a few more steps involved, including a trip to the States, but it will save you a lot of money. I am planning to do exactly this myself later this spring when I have some time to head down to the US. I'll post my experiences on the whole thing, once I do.

Some links to get you started:

http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=846653

http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=867074

http://cars101.com/

http://legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php?t=24153

There is also a thread on Beyond regarding importing a car from the US which lays out the details.

[clem24]

They've improved the WRX quite a bit without upping the price (like bump up to 2.5, 17" wheels, etc...). If you like sunroofs, realize that STi doesn't have one. And does the STi still only come with 1 heated seat? Might be a problem if you have a girl. Could never quite figure that one out... Even if it was to save weight, 1 extra heat pad and 1 switch is no more than a few hundred grams..!

And yes, the current EJ2.5T WRX is very very close to being an STi (a turbo and an intercooler) engine-wise. Hopefully they've resolved the knocking problem that many '04 owners complained about because of our crappy fuel.

True that an STi is cheaper in the states, but after you add on duties, import fees, inspection and the actual cost of going down there to pick it up/shipping (plus the fact that everything is in MPH), you're better off with a Canadian version. I think the '04 USDM ones also had stock HIDs if I am not mistaken.

I still think the STi is the better deal to be had. Once you start adding things up, you'll realize that the $10k or so you're paying is less than what each upgrade would cost you individually.

Of course, if you want good looks, I say go for the GC 2.5RS!!! :thumbsup:

[Pee_Sack]

First of all good choice on the Suby you will not be disapointed. Have you checked on your insurance rates for a WRX or STi?

The main reason I went with the WRX over the STi is because of my insurance rates.

WRX = $300/month
STi = $600/month

Fully covered on both

Mind you I am 19 y/o with a few tickets.

Just something to check out.

[xrayvsn]

Originally posted by clem24
True that an STi is cheaper in the states, but after you add on duties, import fees, inspection and the actual cost of going down there to pick it up/shipping (plus the fact that everything is in MPH), you're better off with a Canadian version.

I'm pretty sure I'm OK with the mph - the inside dial is in km/h, and I don't really use the odometer much. As long as the tach is still in rpm, I'm good ;)

As far as the price differential, I will do some quick math for you, comparing MSRP of a Canadian STi vs US STi and both Canadian and US WRX:

WRX
Cdn $35,495
US $24,495 = 27,925 (with a 1.14 exchange)
Add the 6.1% Duty = $29,627

The riv fee is $209
A/C tax is $100
inspection, flight, gas to drive back and food should cost you less than $1000

You pay less GST on $29k than $35k.

STi:
Cdn $48,995
US $32,995 = 37,614 (with 1.14 exchange)
Add the 6.1% duty = $39,908

riv fee of $209 + A/C tax of $100
then add inspection, gas, food flight, etc.

The tradeoff? A roadtrip to pick it up, and more paperwork. No heated seats on the USDM STi, and miles on the main speedo gauge, as well as the odometer.

I don't know, sounds like a good deal to me. :dunno:


*edit* If you decide to get the Legacy GT, you don't even have to pay the 6.1% duty, since it is made in North America. I can do the same math for the LGT if you'd like.

*edited again: I recently made a trip to the US and noticed the exchange rate I was getting with my credit card (not always the best rate obviously). With the USD costing about 1.16, my credit card was charging me just over 1.19 Cdn.

To recalculate based on 1.19 which may be closer to what a bank would charge, the price of a USDM STi at MSRP plus the 6.1% duty goes up to $41,700. This is still much less than a Canadian STi, and still worth a trip to the US to pick it up IMO.

[That.Guy.S30]

^^ and this is why ill never buy another subaru in canada, until they change their pricing.

[heavyD]

I hope Mitsubishi Canada doesn't fuck us over with the Lancer EVO X pricing. I had MPH in my 1998 Eclipse and to me it's a non issue as you still have KM's even if it's less pronounced than miles.

[clem24]

Hmm, not bad, though realistically, the exchange is more like 1.16 after you factor in the bank's cut. but still, that's a pretty good savings. Maybe I should head down and get one!

For warranty, I just looked on the Sube site and it specifically says that warranty repair work needs to be done in the US. So as long as anything that fucks up doesn't affect the mobility of the car, you'll be fine. Otherwise, might be in for costly carrier/towing charges...

What about US state and federal taxes, since you're buying new? I remember there was a state where Canadians were exempt from taxes if you show valid ID (Montana maybe?).

Holy crap pee_sack: that means your yearly premium on an STi is $7,200?!?!? Where does a 19 year old get the $$$ to buy an STi anyways... :eek:

I am sure the LanEvo will be at least $45+ given that they can probably sell each and every one they get in.

[xrayvsn]

Nope, the US warranty is honored in Canada, just as a Canadian bought car is covered for warranty work in the US. If you don't believe me, call and ask.

Another link about importing an STi (a touch older, but applies to your warranty question):

http://www.iwsti.com/forums/showthread.php?t=16389

You don't pay state tax on the vehicle since you don't live there. It helps to deal with a salesperson who has dealt with exporting a US car to Canada before. If you have some time, click on the links I provided, including the cars101 site. After doing my own research, I can't justify buying a new Subaru from a Canadian dealership as long as the Canadian dollar stays as strong as it is.

[Cypresskilla]

So are there few problems with the STI then the WRX

[xrayvsn]

I sent an e-mail to Joe Spitz, and this was his response, and my initial e-mail quoted. The price he quoted is $600 above his invoice cost for an STi without any options. I am not certain what options, if any are included with that $32,300.

Hi.
Hmmm... most folks go for made in USA Outbacks etc so you should call
Canadian customs and make sure a made in Japan isn't subject
to duties. Let me know what they say
You're looking around $32300 or so depending on what's on the car

Joe

Subaru ReSearch http://www.cars101.com

******************************


On Thu, 16 Mar 2006 xrayvsn wrote:

> Joe,
>
> I have looked through your website and I am interested in purchasing a
> 06 WRX STi. Being from Alberta Canada - I plan on exporting
> the Subaru back home, and I understand that you have had experience in
> selling a Subaru to Canadian residents.
>
> Whenever you get a chance, could you fire me off a quote?
>
> Thanks in advance

[Pee_Sack]

Originally posted by clem24

Holy crap pee_sack: that means your yearly premium on an STi is $7,200?!?!? Where does a 19 year old get the $$$ to buy an STi anyways... :eek:


I have got this magical thing called a job.

That and I still live at home(not paying any rent) :D:D

[Cypresskilla]

Ok so it seems when people are choosing a new car the Subaru is always on the list, but alot of people view the car as being not that much fun to drive duo to the awd. thoughts

[lint]

Originally posted by Cypresskilla
Ok so it seems when people are choosing a new car the Subaru is always on the list, but alot of people view the car as being not that much fun to drive duo to the awd. thoughts

Just so I read that correctly. People complain that subies are NOT fun to drive because of AWD? If they mean not fun because you can't do front wheel drive burnouts, they have a point. Don't really see the connection between AWD and NOT fun though.

I used to have a GC8 Impreza, and that was a fun car all year round. I just hated taking it into the dealsership for servicing. Every time I took it in, it felt like I was getting ripped off. That's the only thing preventing me from considering another one. Otherwise, great cars, and the fit and finish has certainly improved over the years.

[Cypresskilla]

So due to insurnace reasons it looks like i have to go WRX rather then STI, and proably nothing newer then 03, should i still look at 02 or is the tranny problems not worth it. bear in mind that i drive hard and need a car that will hold up. also what needs to be done to a WRX to make it keep up with the STI and what kind of cost am i looking at:burnout:

[mac_82]

Cobb stage 2.

You will keep up with a stock STi.

http://cobbtuning.com/wrx/power-s.html#Stage2

It's your call about the 02 vs 03. I know people with 02's that have no problem what so ever...

[That.Guy.S30]

Originally posted by Cypresskilla
So due to insurnace reasons it looks like i have to go WRX rather then STI, and proably nothing newer then 03, should i still look at 02 or is the tranny problems not worth it. bear in mind that i drive hard and need a car that will hold up. also what needs to be done to a WRX to make it keep up with the STI and what kind of cost am i looking at:burnout:

yea do stage 2. get RA gears and STi takeoff struts/springs, and 4/2 pot brakes.

have you looked at the saab9x2 (saabaru)? i wonder how much they go for used.

[benyl]

Probably 10K or more to do it right.

Stage 2 from cobb will not keep up with an STi. Stock STi with a good driver can do 1/4 in 13.2 - 13.1 @ sea level.

You will probably need a stage 3 or 4 WRX to keep up. Even then, if you simply get EM on an STi, the WRX should be left behind.

But I could be wrong.

[pitwipe]

^ most reports show a Stage2 WRX does indeed keep up with a stock STi. Still can't match the STi for braking and handling, but straight line there is very little between them. A protuned stage 2 will pull on a stock STi, whereas a stage 3 or 4 will kill one.

[mac_82]

And a WRX Cobb Stage 2.5 (vf30 or 34, pinks, fuel pump) will beat a STi Cobb Stage 2.

I have seen this in person. ;)

[Cypresskilla]

so do you have to go stage one first?

[Rocky]

sorry to jack thread, but for the sake of not making a ridiculously similar thread: is it worth it to buy an RS instead of a WRX? or is that shitty bang-for-your-buck?

[That.Guy.S30]

Originally posted by Rocky
sorry to jack thread, but for the sake of not making a ridiculously similar thread: is it worth it to buy an RS instead of a WRX? or is that shitty bang-for-your-buck?

it really depends on what you want. if you are constrained by insurance, monthly payments, price of gas etc. then a rs would be for you.

but most of us yearn for the turbo.. if i had the money i wouldve went with the wrx instead.

[That.Guy.S30]

Originally posted by Cypresskilla
so do you have to go stage one first?

nope. stage one is just the accessport. stage 2 is the accessport and the (tbe) exhaust.

are you going with cobb? another choice you have is prodrive. i love prodrive.

[Cypresskilla]

what kind of price difference is there between cobb and prodrive, who in town is the best for tunin of a suby

[That.Guy.S30]

Originally posted by Cypresskilla
what kind of price difference is there between cobb and prodrive, who in town is the best for tunin of a suby

sorry. i dont own a wrx, so i know nothing about the pricing. i will be able to tell you that the prodrive stuff will cost alot more than the cobb. as for tuning in calgary, i think fragment on nasioc does some tuning. im not sure. sorry

[PraviYugosloven]

good decision (subaru) :thumbsup:

[pitwipe]

I think first of all you need to enjoy your car stock. A stock WRX has plenty of power and will be a tonne of fun to drive. After you've had the car for a while then look into modding it if you still want to.

[Cypresskilla]

I've driven a stock WRX, and yes it did blow my mind. but at the same time the aftermarket bug seems to hit me about 2 weeks after i've been driving the car, so i figured i might as well get some pointers now so i can price things out. also i always do the exhuast right away because i love the rumble of the perfect exhuast on a car, truck etc. This will be only my second import purchase, the first was a 03 Mazdaspeed protege which comes pretty tuned up from factory. but the last thing i want is a ricy exhaust so i've been looking on the web for wavs of suby exhaust anyone know were some good ones are?

[pitwipe]

Then common mods for the WRX are:

Accessport to stage 1. (Do this first.)
Better tyres.
Rear sway bar.
Downpipe and reflash to stage 2.
Up-pipe.
Intercooler hoses.
Upgraded suspension.
Upgraded brakes.

Do all this and your car will be unbelievably fun.

[mac_82]

Originally posted by pitwipe
Then common mods for the WRX are:

Accessport to stage 1. (Do this first.)
Better tyres.
Rear sway bar.
Downpipe and reflash to stage 2.
Upgraded suspension.
Upgraded brakes.

Do all this and your car will be unbelievably fun.

Don't forget up-pipe, as it isn't officially in Cobb's 'Stage 2'.

[pitwipe]

^ fixed! (thanks Mac_82 :thumbsup: )

[Fuji]

Originally posted by mac_82
Cobb stage 2.

You will keep up with a stock STi.

http://cobbtuning.com/wrx/power-s.html#Stage2

It's your call about the 02 vs 03. I know people with 02's that have no problem what so ever...

Not to start an argument and this is off the thread topic, but if thats the case a lowly 2.5RS with bolt ons can very easily keep up with a WRX and my RS with bolt ons could probably beat one :)

I have always found cobb to have inflated claims. Flat out, any 02-05 WRX is not going to keep up with an STi if it is using a stock turbo and no EMS, TBE or not.

[pitwipe]

Read for yourself. http://www.wrxforum.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=3;t=008790

Edit: Stage2 = downpipe AND Accessport reflash (EM).

From what I've heard (though I'm not very familiar with it) the 2.5RS won't keep up to a WRX without extensive mods, which is why RS owners look to do a WRX swap instead.

[Fuji]

Originally posted by pitwipe
Read for yourself. http://www.wrxforum.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=3;t=008790

Edit: Stage2 = downpipe AND Accessport reflash (EM).

From what I've heard (though I'm not very familiar with it) the 2.5RS won't keep up to a WRX without extensive mods, which is why RS owners look to do a WRX swap instead.


Well the WRX with a stage 2 is still missing the key piece, the turbo. That td04 is way too maxed as it is in stock form. It is already running out of its efficiency range and to push it more is just blowing hot air.

[benyl]

yeah, that is what I was getting at. That turbo falls on it's face when you turn up the boost.

Not to mention, you transmission is going to blow up... unless your WRX is a 2006.

[pitwipe]

True, Stage 2 does max out the stock WRX turbo.

Also true, A Stage2 WRX will hang with a Stock STi (which is what the orginal question was.)

Not true - a WRX will blow it's tranny at this power level.

Also 04 & 05 WRX have stronger gears than the 02 & 03's.

I sense STi owners getting upset... :rofl:

[Fuji]

Originally posted by pitwipe
True, Stage 2 does max out the stock WRX turbo.

Also true, A Stage2 WRX will hang with a Stock STi (which is what the orginal question was.)

Not true - a WRX will blow it's tranny at this power level. Also 04 & 05 WRX have stronger gears than the 02 & 03's.

I sense STi owners getting upset... :rofl:


The stock turbo is already maxed in stock form without stage 2. You'll get a few ponies from turning up the boost and opening up the exhaust, but not enough to beat a stock STi. I tend not to believe it till I see it in person, and I have not seen a stage 2 beat a STI.

I don't own a STI so it doesn't matter to me lol, but the reality is that stage 2 is not as fast as everyone makes it out to be.

My Stage 0 Subie is the shizat tho!

And to keep this thread on topic. Get an STI

[pitwipe]

Originally posted by Fuji



The stock turbo is already maxed in stock form without stage 2.

:D No, it's not.

You'll get a few ponies from turning up the boost and opening up the exhaust,

:D 58 more ponies

I tend not to believe it..

:( Apparently so...

I have not seen a stage 2 beat a STI.

:D Many have.

the reality is that stage 2 is not as fast as everyone makes it out to be.

:dunno: Everyone is wrong but you?

My Stage 0 Subie is the shizat tho!

:D All Subies are the shizat! lol.

And to keep this thread on topic. Get an STI.

:D Yes, I would too if I had the cash.


This is kinda fun! :clap:

[benyl]

Why would STi owners get upset?

You can never make a WRX an STi.

The 04 and 05 may have stronger gears, but the gears aren't the only problem. The Transmission case flexes under load and is also a cause of transmission failure. ( I could be wrong).

[Fuji]

I could argue all day with you on this, but it's just an acedemic/ricer excercise. There is only one way to resolve this. Find a stage 2 WRX and a stock STi and a dyno and then head to SS.


hell If no one is willing to back the stock STI up, I'll have to put my RS against the stage 2 wrx :nut:

[pitwipe]

Originally posted by benyl
Why would STi owners get upset?

You can never make a WRX an STi.

The 04 and 05 may have stronger gears, but the gears aren't the only problem. The Transmission case flexes under load and is also a cause of transmission failure. ( I could be wrong).

I agree, the WRX will never be an STi. The STi is superior in almost every way, which is why it costs more. I would 100% agree that if you can afford it, get the STi. It's an awesome machine!!!!

[benyl]

I will race your RS at SS. I will even pay for the tow truck.

[Fuji]

Originally posted by benyl
I will race your RS at SS. I will even pay for the tow truck.


Let's race for a tranny. When I win. I get your 6 speed out of your car. If I lose because my tranny is scattered across the first 60 feet of race city (80% chance of that happening), you are the winner and get bragging rights and then you can pay for the towing of my car to my house for me

[That.Guy.S30]

^ fuji isnt your rs the one with the turbo setup? or is it another member im thinking of?

[Fuji]

Originally posted by Thi_Thi Subs
^ fuji isnt your rs the one with the turbo setup? or is it another member im thinking of?

I'm just a wannabe. I am stock with some bolt ons. you must be confused with someone else

[mac_82]

Originally posted by benyl
Why would STi owners get upset?

You can never make a WRX an STi.

That is very true. But you can make a WRX into a mean machine. But I bought my WRX for $11 000 cheaper than I coulda have gotten a STi for. I pay about 1/2 the insurance for my WRX, and with some engine, exhaust, and suspension mods it will be just as fast and almost handle as well as an STi. Sure it won't have the tranny or the interior, or the HIDs, or the brakes, or the gold rims, but for now it is good enough for me, maybe when I turn 25 in a few years and my insurance goes down I will buy a STi, or heck, maybe even an Evo. :D

[Fuji]

I wonder if the Lancer and Evo owners have these exact same discussions.... :rofl:

[That.Guy.S30]

Originally posted by Fuji
I wonder if the Lancer and Evo owners have these exact same discussions.... :rofl:

naw. they discuss about srt4's, kinda like nabisco. lol

[benyl]

forget subaru.

Next car I am going to get is an SRT4 calibre.

300hp, AWD for like $30K

Plus factory approved upgrades that should get you into the 12s

[mac_82]

a neon by any other name.....

[pitwipe]

I like SRT-4's, (I must be the only Subie driver that does!) The drivers of them can sometimes be dicks, but as for the car - it's tough to find a better bang for your buck.

[Fuji]

ya. the srt-4 is a cool car, but the drivers are dicks.... then again ppl say subie drivers are snobby dicks lol

[Cypresskilla]

But an SRT-4 is still a neon body with the heart of a viper crammed under it's hood. If they could have changed the styling more this car would have been awesome. 2 years ago before i bought my MazdaSpeed Protege i was all set to buy an SRT-4 but decided to go import for resale. 2 days after picking up my car i raced an SRT-4 from a stop and got owned BAD

[Aleks]

Caliber looks nothing like the Neon. Neon is gone. and the New SRT-4 will be FWD not AWD :banghead:

[Cypresskilla]

Ok so to get back on topic, what i can't figure out is why are 02 WRX's still going for between $19,000-26,000 and there are 05's going for $25,000:dunno: by the way i took these numbers from the auto trader.

[mac_82]

Just from a quick look online:


02 - 107km - $19 000
02 - 102km - $21 495
02 - 46km - $25 900
03 specr1 - n/a - $27 800
05 - 19km - $34 500
06 wagon - 5km - $36 500

[mac_82]

where did you find an 05 for $25500? thats a pretty cheap price, what are the kms and condition of the car?

[Cypresskilla]

Autotrader. Correction it's $26,500 only mod is 3 inch exhaust and it doesn't say how many km's but i would be surprised to see any more then 45,000 kms in a year or less

[Cypresskilla]

Originally posted by mac_82
Just from a quick look online:


02 - 107km - $19 000
02 - 102km - $21 495
02 - 46km - $25 900
03 specr1 - n/a - $27 800
05 - 19km - $34 500
06 wagon - 5km - $36 500
05- kms n/a - $26,500

so out of that what are the best deals.

And i talked to the kid with the 02 wrx for $19,000 which i would have bought except he changed his mind and has now decided not to sell.:banghead: :banghead: :thumbsdow

I know the 05 seems to be the best, but something that threw me was the fact that it has a trailer hitch on it. i would hate to see someone towing with a WRX

[Fuji]

get the 05 and take off the hitch! There is still warranty. what are you waiting for


I'm pretty sure a 19 year old has done more damage to the car than anyone towing something with a hitch...

[benyl]

the tow hitch could be for a bike rack.

Hell, a lot of guys have custom racks to carry their track wheels to the track using the trailer hitch.

[pitwipe]

Back off topic...

The new SRT-4 Calibre!
http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f220/Wrxmaster/FastorSrt.jpg

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

[Cypresskilla]

Anyone know where on the net i kind find exhaust wavs for WRX's and different types of exhaust

[That.Guy.S30]

nasioc.com saerch the 2.0l forums. check out the prodrive one and the genome STi also. both sound like heaven.

[mac_82]

Evan a search on video.google.com for WRX exhaust comes up with apex'i, sti genome, prodrive etc.

[_integra_typeR_]

What kind of mods are common on a STi? from a stock? What can be done to a STi? i'm not very familliar with Subys so.. haha

[Aleks]

Have a 06 WRX on order :)
They seemed to have under rated this car slightly. It's a nice improvement over 02-05 and I really enjoyed the test drives, so I went for it. Got about 3K off msrp and good finance rate so I knowingly took a 4K+ loss (as compared to going to USA for one)

So I've been reading some forums and looks like some guys are running mid 12s with:
sti turbo, Sti IC, TBE, EM.
Does anyone know if the stock 06 WRX turbo is still the same from 02-05. Pretty sure I read it is but I am not 100% sure.
thanks.

[benyl]

it is the same.

You won't run 12s at this elevation with those mods. You might run mid 13s if you are lucky.

[Aleks]

Originally posted by benyl
it is the same.

You won't run 12s at this elevation with those mods. You might run mid 13s if you are lucky.

Cool thanks,

Myself I don't plan on modding in that much anyways. If I wanted to run low 12s all day here I would have bought an SRT-4 :D