Creatine Questions

[Gorilla]

Can you mix Creatine with Whey for your post workout drink?

Right now Im taking 20-25g of Protein with Glutamine and Dextrose..

Can I mix Creatine in with this as well?
Should I do a Loading Phase with Creatine?
Should creatine be taken pre workout as well?
Can I take creatine during a cutting diet?
Will I lose most results gained with Creatine after stopping?

I took creatine a few years ago and found that after I quit I lost alot of my gains.

[2002civic]

search....

[Unknown303]

Creatine its a large contributer to the replacement of ATP in your muscles during a workout, it would be recommended to take it before a workout as it gives you all that extra ATP waiting to take its place in your muscles after each set. I used to take it before and after a workout and it seemed to go well. However i've switched over to NO-Xplode for my preworkout drink now. Just combines creatine with other supplements and i find it greatly increases my ability during my workouts although it could be all in my head.

[hockeybronx]

Originally posted by Gorilla
Can you mix Creatine with Whey for your post workout drink?

Right now Im taking 20-25g of Protein with Glutamine and Dextrose..

Can I mix Creatine in with this as well?
Should I do a Loading Phase with Creatine?
Should creatine be taken pre workout as well?
Can I take creatine during a cutting diet?
Will I lose most results gained with Creatine after stopping?

I took creatine a few years ago and found that after I quit I lost alot of my gains.

First of all my view on creatine: The main reason people get disappointed with creatine is that they expect too much out of it. Creatine does not magically whip up extreme muscle growth or gains. All it does is provide your muscles with cellular energy and water so that you can pump harder and more. The gains you get from creatine are simply from your muscles being able to work harder.

My answers to your questions:

Creatine is better taken before your workout, about 20 minutes before your workout.

You can mix it with that other shake, but if I were you I'd take the creatine before your workout, the protein/glutamine after your workout and forget about the dextrose.

People have mixed views about creatine. I think it's better to just take steady amounts and stop for a bit. i.e take it 5 days a week then 2 days off.

I wouldn't say it would have a huge impact on your cutting diet. Depending on the creatine there can be some carbs in there, but not enough to make a huge difference.

[matt_calgary]

I can't even count about many journal articles I've researched on how terrible creatine is for you. However, if you're keen on taking it, the metabolic effects are most benificial when taken a workout.

[TrevorK]

Originally posted by matt_calgary
I can't even count about many journal articles I've researched on how terrible creatine is for you. However, if you're keen on taking it, the metabolic effects are most benificial when taken a workout.

It is "bad" for you because of the conversion to creatinine. However, this usually isn't a problem if creatine is taken in reasonable amounts.

As well, there are creatines out there that claim they are not converted to creatinine, which would then avoid the "terrible" things you hear about.

[matt_calgary]

Articles I've read are lab tests, not some company sponsored bullshit. When you look at a lot of research, they indicate that, yes this stuff increases muscle mass, increases O2 concentration and will promote increased amounts of strength in the user. However, so does steriods, so that doesn't say much.

Since you will most likely not have access to the journals I've viewed through the U of C library database, here is a quick google search on effects of creatine and kidney failure. Moreover, when looking for information on creatine side effects, don't go on bias webpages like bodybuilding forums for anyone else wanting to add input.

http://www.nutritionalsupplements.com/workgnc.html

Actuals users scared from the use of creatine, documented cases of real problems.


"Creatine does not directly promote increased muscle mass, other than providing extra energy to possibly get one more repetition. Initial weight gain with creatine use is typically secondary to increased water retention within skeletal muscle."

http://fortifiediron.com/invision/index.php?showtopic=650&st=25

It most articles, they are testing on very competitive athlethes which will have larger organs, healthier body tissues and be able to sustain the recommended dose. While the other 1% of the population will follow the same regime and have side effects. Moreover, there are lots of studies saying what you have said, is that creatine is safe within a certain doseage. No real long term effects can be determined because creatine hasn't been out THAT long. However, with so many side effects of a substance, is it worth the risk? With a proper diet and a strict workout routine, you will have longer lasting, healthier, actual muscle tissues when compared to creatine users. This is for the 99% of people who are concerned about their health, not a competition.

I'm not going to sit here and go back and forth with you, you obviously have your stance and I have mine, but a lot of present and possible upcoming users are unaware of the dangers.

[2.4l]

great post matt_calgary! very informative:thumbsup:
like i said before, creatine sucks, there is no supplement for big weights:bigpimp:

[Mazstyle]

This is a site I've found useful http://www.absolute-creatine.com/

[hockeybronx]

One of the things to remember when reading these articles is although the testimonials tell about what creatine did wrong to their bodies, it DOESN'T say what THEY did wrong to their bodies.

If you take a high amount of creatine and don't up your water intake then it's your own fault for dehydrating yourself.

The same is true for actual steroids. Although I have never taken, nor never will take steroids, I have done a lot of research on a variety. Many of the side-effect people run into while taking steroids are caused because of improper lifestyle. If you are going to start taking steroids then your entire lifestyle has to be on board as well. This means no binge drinking, fasting, getting improper sleep, not drinking enough water etc.

If you are drinking a recommended 2-4 litres of water a day, and are taking the recommended doses of creatine, then in my opinion the side effects would be few and far between. Half of these guys want to get huge so they take double doses, they don't drink any water while they workout, then they go and hammer themselves full of alcohol at night. No wonder they have kidney problems... they are constantly dehdrated.:banghead:

[1-Cent]

Originally posted by matt_calgary
I can't even count about many journal articles I've researched on how terrible creatine is for you. However, if you're keen on taking it, the metabolic effects are most benificial when taken a workout.

If you saw it in a magazine it must be true right.

[heavyD]

Originally posted by 1-Cent


If you saw it in a magazine it must be true right.

I agree. I would much rather believe an anonymous poster on the internet.:rolleyes:

I've gotten large & strong over the years and have never tried Creatine or steroids. I'm in my 30's and am extremely healthy because of it. You younger guys ingesting all that garbage are risking long term health for short term gain which is foolish. At least athletes have big paycheques to show for polluting their body but a poser in a mirror?

There is no replacement for the natural way of doing things such as a proper diet of fruits & vegetables and excercise. I went from 138 lbs to 185 lbs the natural way so there is no reason anyone else can't unless you don't want to put the work into it. History has proven in all facets of life if you cut corners, you usually end up paying for it later on.

If you need chemicals to be strong you are a pussy in my books. :thumbsdow One nice thing about being natural is that if I take a break I lose barely any mass or strength compared to the roiders in the gym that don't even come in when they are off their cycles to save embaressment because they shrink so fast.

[1-Cent]

There I have to disagree.
I was 21, ALL natural, 190lbs shredded, >4%... at 21. I started at 135lbs fat.
4 Years later 265lbs 8-9% bodyfat, coming up on a 400lb bench, perfect health, doc appointment and blood work every 3 months to the day.

Pussy? Ya think again, if you want to hit the gym a couple times a weak and call us meatheats fine. I have a masters degree in engeering and this is the lifestyle I life, get over yourself.



Originally posted by heavyD


I agree. I would much rather believe an anonymous poster on the internet.:rolleyes:

I've gotten large & strong over the years and have never tried Creatine or steroids. I'm in my 30's and am extremely healthy because of it. You younger guys ingesting all that garbage are risking long term health for short term gain which is foolish. At least athletes have big paycheques to show for polluting their body but a poser in a mirror?

There is no replacement for the natural way of doing things such as a proper diet of fruits & vegetables and excercise. I went from 138 lbs to 185 lbs the natural way so there is no reason anyone else can't unless you don't want to put the work into it. History has proven in all facets of life if you cut corners, you usually end up paying for it later on.

If you need chemicals to be strong you are a pussy in my books. :thumbsdow One nice thing about being natural is that if I take a break I lose barely any mass or strength compared to the roiders in the gym that don't even come in when they are off their cycles to save embaressment because they shrink so fast.

[1-Cent]

Originally posted by 1-Cent
There I have to disagree.
I was 21, ALL natural, 190lbs shredded, >4%... at 21. I started at 135lbs fat.
4 Years later 265lbs 8-9% bodyfat, coming up on a 400lb bench, perfect health, doc appointment and blood work every 3 months to the day.

Pussy? Ya think again, if you want to hit the gym a couple times a weak and call us meatheats fine. I have a masters degree in engeering and this is the lifestyle I life, get over yourself.




ps 405 for 5, 485 max

man up :D

[hockeybronx]

Originally posted by heavyD


I agree. I would much rather believe an anonymous poster on the internet.:rolleyes:

I've gotten large & strong over the years and have never tried Creatine or steroids. I'm in my 30's and am extremely healthy because of it. You younger guys ingesting all that garbage are risking long term health for short term gain which is foolish. At least athletes have big paycheques to show for polluting their body but a poser in a mirror?

There is no replacement for the natural way of doing things such as a proper diet of fruits & vegetables and excercise. I went from 138 lbs to 185 lbs the natural way so there is no reason anyone else can't unless you don't want to put the work into it. History has proven in all facets of life if you cut corners, you usually end up paying for it later on.

If you need chemicals to be strong you are a pussy in my books. :thumbsdow One nice thing about being natural is that if I take a break I lose barely any mass or strength compared to the roiders in the gym that don't even come in when they are off their cycles to save embaressment because they shrink so fast.

Some interesting comments there. First off I have to say going from 138 pounds to 185 pounds isn't bulking up in my books... that's called puberty.

I'm not saying any supplement is essential or not, but when you go and put yourself on a pedestal saying how you've got yourself to be "large and strong" you kind of lose your credibility. 185 pounds is what I would call average, try getting up to for example 205 and see what a challenge it is.

I'll be the first to tell you that a body is made first in the kitchen, second in the gym, and third in the bed, not standing at the supplement counter, but I think it is unfair for you to sit there claiming to be all-knowing and all-righteous when you have no idea about anything you are talking about.:thumbsdow

[heavyD]

Originally posted by hockeybronx


Some interesting comments there. First off I have to say going from 138 pounds to 185 pounds isn't bulking up in my books... that's called puberty.

I'm not saying any supplement is essential or not, but when you go and put yourself on a pedestal saying how you've got yourself to be "large and strong" you kind of lose your credibility. 185 pounds is what I would call average, try getting up to for example 205 and see what a challenge it is.

I'll be the first to tell you that a body is made first in the kitchen, second in the gym, and third in the bed, not standing at the supplement counter, but I think it is unfair for you to sit there claiming to be all-knowing and all-righteous when you have no idea about anything you are talking about.:thumbsdow

First of all I never claimed to be massive did I. I claimed that I put on 45lbs of muscle the natural way. If I can do that without adding anything to my body can you imagine how much I could put on with supplements?

I could get to 205 quite easily but I am satisfied where I am as believe it or not alot of females said I was getting too big when I was at 190-195 & I am actually trying to drop just below 180.

Are you saying I went through puberty in my mid 20's? And you know what you are talking about? I'm not all-righteous, I just want others to know that you don't need to fill yourself up with garbage to get mass & strength.

You obviously feel slighted. Is it because you know you can't hack it without your supplemental additions? Just wondering why a guy coming on to the boards telling people that they they don't need to fill up with that shit is such a bad thing?

I'm not saying you or anyone here is on the juice but you can take the weakest skinniest pussy and inject him with shit we give horses and with a proper regiment that pussy can get huge in a relatively short amount of time. That guy is still the pussy he was before, he just has the benefit of artificial enhancement. Takes alot of the achievement away from people that actually put in the hard work & time to get to the same place that others can artificially.

Since you claim to know alot I ask you. How old are you and what supplements are you taking? Can you honesly state that you know with ANY CERTAINTY that you will never develope any problems with organs, cancer, or other dehabilitating problems later in life due to those supplements? If you say yes to that you have no idea what you are talking about.

[heavyD]

Originally posted by 1-Cent
There I have to disagree.
I was 21, ALL natural, 190lbs shredded, >4%... at 21. I started at 135lbs fat.
4 Years later 265lbs 8-9% bodyfat, coming up on a 400lb bench, perfect health, doc appointment and blood work every 3 months to the day.

Pussy? Ya think again, if you want to hit the gym a couple times a weak and call us meatheats fine. I have a masters degree in engeering and this is the lifestyle I life, get over yourself.




Ha Ha. You are 25 years old. Call me when you are 40 and then tell me how healthy you are or I you are still 265lbs & 8-9% body fat.

You think because you are an engineer that you are smarter than everyone else? If you aren't a pussy please explain why you can't do it without the additions? There are plenty of natural guys that can do a 400 lb bench. You obvioulsy just need a little bit of help to get there. You are free to live your life the way you want but please don't try to be a role model.

[matt_calgary]

Originally posted by 1-Cent
I have a masters degree in engeering and this is the lifestyle I life, get over yourself. [/B]

While I believe it is excellent that you have a master's in engineering, thank god you can do math because you certainly can't spell or use proper grammar.

This is the lifestyle I life? LIVE dammit LIVE!!!!!!! Want to snap a pic of your ring too:drama: :bullshit:

[afrotl]

:drama:

[hockeybronx]

Originally posted by heavyD


First of all I never claimed to be massive did I. I claimed that I put on 45lbs of muscle the natural way. If I can do that without adding anything to my body can you imagine how much I could put on with supplements?

I could get to 205 quite easily but I am satisfied where I am as believe it or not alot of females said I was getting too big when I was at 190-195 & I am actually trying to drop just below 180.

Are you saying I went through puberty in my mid 20's? And you know what you are talking about? I'm not all-righteous, I just want others to know that you don't need to fill yourself up with garbage to get mass & strength.

You obviously feel slighted. Is it because you know you can't hack it without your supplemental additions? Just wondering why a guy coming on to the boards telling people that they they don't need to fill up with that shit is such a bad thing?

I'm not saying you or anyone here is on the juice but you can take the weakest skinniest pussy and inject him with shit we give horses and with a proper regiment that pussy can get huge in a relatively short amount of time. That guy is still the pussy he was before, he just has the benefit of artificial enhancement. Takes alot of the achievement away from people that actually put in the hard work & time to get to the same place that others can artificially.

Since you claim to know alot I ask you. How old are you and what supplements are you taking? Can you honesly state that you know with ANY CERTAINTY that you will never develope any problems with organs, cancer, or other dehabilitating problems later in life due to those supplements? If you say yes to that you have no idea what you are talking about.

Well I'm 20 years old. I am not currently "on" any supplements. I have experimented with quite a range of supplements, and have done a ton of research about them through articles, dieticians, personal trainers, even a doctor at the research centre at the University of Calgary. It makes me react when I hear you in your stubborn ways say "all supplements are useless and dangerous", when the truth is no matter what anybody says you aren't going to change your mind anyways. I might as well just talk to my keyboard and wait for it to respond. I know your response to that is show me the proof... it always is.

Creatine is naturally occuring in meat products as well, we've already established that. You guys don't realize that the whole point of creatine supplements is that by the time it gets broken down and processed by your body, it is in essence exactly the same as that found in your meat/fish products.

You guys are underestimating the bodys ability to handle and process foreign matter. I am saying that if you take creatine in the recommended doses, and live a healthy lifestyle taking in the recommended amounts of water, and eat by the Canada Food Guide, you are just as likely to develop kidney or liver problems as any other average guy out there.

My last questions for anyone claiming to have this "all natural body" is: Do you drink coffee or pop? Do you take aspirin or tylenol? Do you take cough medicine, or uppers and downers like Nyquil or Dayquil? Have you ever smoked or are frequently exposed to second hand smoke? Because these are everyday things everyone acts like it's normal to take them. These all have just as bad if not worse effects on your body as creatine would if you took it improperly. I can answer no to each one of those questions. How bout you?

[heavyD]

Originally posted by hockeybronx


Well I'm 20 years old. I am not currently "on" any supplements. I have experimented with quite a range of supplements, and have done a ton of research about them through articles, dieticians, personal trainers, even a doctor at the research centre at the University of Calgary. It makes me react when I hear you in your stubborn ways say "all supplements are useless and dangerous", when the truth is no matter what anybody says you aren't going to change your mind anyways. I might as well just talk to my keyboard and wait for it to respond. I know your response to that is show me the proof... it always is.

Creatine is naturally occuring in meat products as well, we've already established that. You guys don't realize that the whole point of creatine supplements is that by the time it gets broken down and processed by your body, it is in essence exactly the same as that found in your meat/fish products.

You guys are underestimating the bodys ability to handle and process foreign matter. I am saying that if you take creatine in the recommended doses, and live a healthy lifestyle taking in the recommended amounts of water, and eat by the Canada Food Guide, you are just as likely to develop kidney or liver problems as any other average guy out there.

My last questions for anyone claiming to have this "all natural body" is: Do you drink coffee or pop? Do you take aspirin or tylenol? Do you take cough medicine, or uppers and downers like Nyquil or Dayquil? Have you ever smoked or are frequently exposed to second hand smoke? Because these are everyday things everyone acts like it's normal to take them. These all have just as bad if not worse effects on your body as creatine would if you took it improperly. I can answer no to each one of those questions. How bout you?

You make valid points & I don't want this to get personal. While I don't drink pop (unless it's mix in a casual drink) I drink alot of coffee (its my vice) and know that caffene is a stimulant but I don't bring a Tim's to work out. I don't smoke (I despise smoking actually) or take any medication unless prescribed so my body is relatively clean. My intentions were never to take shots at anyone on these boards directly, there are still alot of unanswered questions about long term use of Creatine so I am hesitant to recomend it or use it.

[Unknown303]

Originally posted by hockeybronx


Well I'm 20 years old. I am not currently "on" any supplements. I have experimented with quite a range of supplements, and have done a ton of research about them through articles, dieticians, personal trainers, even a doctor at the research centre at the University of Calgary. It makes me react when I hear you in your stubborn ways say "all supplements are useless and dangerous", when the truth is no matter what anybody says you aren't going to change your mind anyways. I might as well just talk to my keyboard and wait for it to respond. I know your response to that is show me the proof... it always is.

Creatine is naturally occuring in meat products as well, we've already established that. You guys don't realize that the whole point of creatine supplements is that by the time it gets broken down and processed by your body, it is in essence exactly the same as that found in your meat/fish products.

You guys are underestimating the bodys ability to handle and process foreign matter. I am saying that if you take creatine in the recommended doses, and live a healthy lifestyle taking in the recommended amounts of water, and eat by the Canada Food Guide, you are just as likely to develop kidney or liver problems as any other average guy out there.

My last questions for anyone claiming to have this "all natural body" is: Do you drink coffee or pop? Do you take aspirin or tylenol? Do you take cough medicine, or uppers and downers like Nyquil or Dayquil? Have you ever smoked or are frequently exposed to second hand smoke? Because these are everyday things everyone acts like it's normal to take them. These all have just as bad if not worse effects on your body as creatine would if you took it improperly. I can answer no to each one of those questions. How bout you?

You always nail good points in these forums man. Myself, i'm 23 years old as of today. And i workout and take a supplement called NO-Xplode. I eat health and i quit smoking and drinking two years ago. I use a supplement because like in the quote your body can handle these things, supplements aren't medication they are nutrience that naturally occur in food you already eat. It comes down to although i try to eat as well as i can i still probably lack some of these things in my diet. It helps when taken right and i notice it everyday i go to the gym. Good forum though lots of opinions.

[matt_calgary]

Yes, I would agree that there are many valuable points on this board from users and none-users. The one thing I'm really suprised I havn't heard about, especially those concerned about overall body and health is sleeping habits. Its getting off topic but that fact is, sleeping regularly and for 7+ hrs a night consistently is just as important as going to the gym. Even bodybuilding/weight lifting magazines will preach this material which is excellent.

In addition, it seems no matter what your take on the issue, some people are going to consistently use creatine because they can swear nothing is wrong with it (at one end of the spectrum) while others won't even touch it because they are afraid if they try it, they will die (obviously the other end). I'm a small guy already, I've actually tried it, found myself so thirsty all the time it was insane. Moreover, I did have small pinches in my lower back/kidney area while I was on it, and even afterwards for a short period. I followed the dosage tables etc but I'm not a fan of it and prefer to eat tons of flavored tuna containers and chicken breast than take creatine. While combining both could yield results for some individuals, it did not help me. I would tell people to try it if they want and do their own research, but I'm not for it.

Lastly, I'm pleasantly astonished how mature people are being on such a touchy subject. One thing IS100% sure through our beyond.ca discussion thread, you can't really get crea-rage:D!

[hockeybronx]

Originally posted by heavyD
there are still alot of unanswered questions about long term use of Creatine

That's where you are bang on. Since creatine is such a newly-introduced supplement, it could be up to 40 years until they can actual prove/disprove that it has no long term affects on the body. They will have to do a study on a person taking creatine throughout their life to find that out. Those kinds of studies will answer the questions most people have most accurately.



Originally posted by matt_calgary
I'm a small guy already, I've actually tried it, found myself so thirsty all the time it was insane.

Yeah no doubt, I talked with a dietitian that I know on what she recommends for daily water intake. Her suggestions:
- for normal people - 1.5 - 2 litres a day
- for athletes who work out daily (myself) - 2-4 litres a day
- people who consume caffeine - their daily intake + an amount of water equal to the amount of caffeinated beverages they consumed
- people on creatine: 2-5 litres a day

It's too bad that very few actually consume even the lowest recommended amount, it's like living years at a time dehydrated.:(

[Unknown303]

I think while working out at the gym alone i drink over 1.5 litres. So the rest of the day must bring me into the creatine region.

[A790]

Originally posted by Unknown303
I think while working out at the gym alone i drink over 1.5 litres. So the rest of the day must bring me into the creatine region.

I don't use creatine, and I drink about 2 solid liters when I work out.