BMW 330i VS Lexus is350

[Clanche]

http://www.autoweek.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060206/FREE/60126002&Profile=1065

"Lexus brought a knife to a gunfight and still managed to shoot itself in the foot. The 3 Series is indeed the better car." :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

[benyl]

haha, electro nannies.

[CLiVE]

Originally posted by benyl
haha, electro nannies.

Good read....

darn electro nannies that try to protect you from yourself. I hate that. :banghead:

[Zephyr]

So our suspension sucks... still a great car!

[Millsie]

I"ve always found it interesting that magazines always always bring a manual BMW to a comparo, even if no other competitors have manuals. Doesn't seem quite right to me.
Must admin the lexus is a bruiser in a straight line, but they did drop the ball again on the traction control/autobox issue.

[Orbie]

Originally posted by benyl
haha, electro nannies.

That's the #1 critique on the IS350 in every car comparo I've read on the car. Car and Driver, Motortrend etc. Can it really be THAT obtrusive? I should rephrase that, will joe blow buyer ever say "Damn! that electro nanny screwed up my turn!" If so, then yes that's a pretty big problem!

[pinoyhero]

Don't think the beemer will ever be champed, I must admit i'm a bigger fan of the "look" of the IS though.

[Clanche]

Originally posted by Millsie
I"ve always found it interesting that magazines always always bring a manual BMW to a comparo, even if no other competitors have manuals. Doesn't seem quite right to me.
Must admin the lexus is a bruiser in a straight line, but they did drop the ball again on the traction control/autobox issue.

so you think they should take an inferio bmw transmition because Lexus didnt make a manual for their sports car??? that's like saying they should of turbo charged to BMW to match the Lexus power in order to compare it better... they are comparing two cars in the same class from different manufacturers.. if one of them decided not to give the option of a manual then its their fault... :dunno:


Originally posted by pinoyhero
Don't think the beemer will ever be champed, I must admit i'm a bigger fan of the "look" of the IS though.

the IS350 does look badass

[Millsie]

I guess my point was that it should be an apples to apples comparo. Don't get me wrong, the Lex should have a manual, but that said, BMW makes an automatic, so why not compare them? Then again I guess they could have compared the IS250 versus the 325, but I"m no editor.

I always remember reading that some excutives from Lexus, infinity and Mercedes we commenting on the lack of manual tranny's in their sport sedans, and it was simply a matter of cost-benefit. All their market research suggested that only 10-15% would opt for a manual, so it wasn't worth it to offer it, though they all laughed as it pretty much meant Motortrend and company would rag on them for not offering the stick.

[Goblin]

:thumbsup:

[C4S]

I still remember few yr ago .. ( actually 6 yr ago? )

I priced out a loaded IS300 ( ~220HP ) was app. $36K+tax esafter $3K rebates from Toyota ..

vs a Loaded 328I with leather, premium package etc .. was $60K + taxes and only 190HP ...

So .. with 15% more HP .. and $34K less .. I bought the IS 300 ... which was better value ..

But now, you look at a loaded IS350 and a loaded 330i .. IS350 actually cost more! and about 18% more HP .. so ... :dunno:

[nadroj23]

the 330 is awesome, my parents just picked up the 06 330x1. i must say for a automatic tranny it is seemless.

[Xtrema]

Originally posted by Millsie
I always remember reading that some excutives from Lexus, infinity and Mercedes we commenting on the lack of manual tranny's in their sport sedans, and it was simply a matter of cost-benefit. All their market research suggested that only 10-15% would opt for a manual, so it wasn't worth it to offer it, though they all laughed as it pretty much meant Motortrend and company would rag on them for not offering the stick.

Magazine sells to enthauists and that's how the articles are geared towards. Saying a typical auto is better than manual in performance will lose a lot of credibility.

But really, a smooth shifting lazy auto is what 90% of people wants. And it manual tranny is so great, how come it's not in any cars in WRC/F1?

[Sunburst_Spec_V]

Originally posted by Xtrema


Magazine sells to enthauists and that's how the articles are geared towards. Saying a typical auto is better than manual in performance will lose a lot of credibility.

But really, a smooth shifting lazy auto is what 90% of people wants. And it manual tranny is so great, how come it's not in any cars in WRC/F1?

There is a huge difference in the Auto Trannies in WRC/F1 to what is offered in most cars. A manual tranny is great versus a typical slush box auto.

[Altezza]

Here is a bit of perspective on the manual tranny issue:

< 15% of IS300s sold were manual tranny
20% of '06+ IS-series is anticipated to be IS350

Lets be generous and say there will be 20% demand for a manual tranny IS350 as opposed to automatic. That's only 4% of the entire IS-lineup that will account for an IS350 manual tranny. Is it wise to develop, test, and support a manual tranny when 96% of the buyers won't want it?

Top Gear summed it up best IMO. They do not dispute that the BMW is a better handling car. However, they also admit that you'll spend less than 10% of the time exploiting this advantage. With that in mind, they would much rather have the IS that is superior the other 90% of the time.

Both cars are great; can't go wrong with either one. However, I must say the ownership experience with Lexus, albeit a bit over-rated, will likely draw me back for another one.

[Orbie]

Originally posted by Altezza
Here is a bit of perspective on the manual tranny issue:

&lt; 15% of IS300s sold were manual tranny
20% of '06+ IS-series is anticipated to be IS350

Lets be generous and say there will be 20% demand for a manual tranny IS350 as opposed to automatic. That's only 4% of the entire IS-lineup that will account for an IS350 manual tranny. Is it wise to develop, test, and support a manual tranny when 96% of the buyers won't want it?


I remember the Lexus Reps saying this again and again and again during the live chats and message boards prior to the release of the IS350. Makes perfect sense to me...I think even enthusiasts will find the IS350 numbers hard to complain about.

[treg50]

In terms of the top of the line IS350 vs top of the line 330i, I guess this was a fair comparison. Auto vs. Manual, that makes sense... to some people but not to me. The IS300 also was initially released as an automatic only, but then they released a manual version and it kicked ass to people's surprise and woke BMW the hell up. Here we have another victory for BMW. Win: Due to better performance in the slalom(???):

46.0 mph for 330i
44.2 mph for IS350 (pretty good for a "slush box", with wheel-spin limiter)

Isn't it funny how these guys ask, "But who wants to drive in a straight line?" I like that after telling us that the the IS350 "put the 3 Series on the trailer (figuratively speaking, in drag-racer trash talk)." Come on, lol, we all like the best off the line performance, who are we kidding? IS350 hands down, 330i "on the trailer."

The Lexus is $2990 more they say, but to that I say and what's your point? Realistically that is awesome! An automatic transmission is approximately that much anyways. If they offered it a manual it will be the same price or lower than the BMW. Plus, when I look at the numbers I'd easily pick the IS350 despite what these 'reviewers' say. Look at the numbers (their numbers):

For $2990 you get:
1) More power: 305-hp (277-lbft) --- +50 hp and +57 lbft more than the 330i
2) Better fuel economy than 330i: according to Autoweek's test: IS350 = 28.64 mpg vs. 330i = 22.12 mpg; and the EPA rating
3) A quieter ride than 330i
4) Lexus quality and reliability
5) More cargo space and bigger fuel tank than 330i

My pick: IS350

[benyl]

You forgot that you are also paying for the extra weight of the IS350.

[benyl]

Originally posted by Xtrema

But really, a smooth shifting lazy auto is what 90% of people wants. And it manual tranny is so great, how come it's not in any cars in WRC/F1?

The WRC cars have a manual tranny. The difference is that it is sequentially shifted like a motor cycle. That wouldn't be good for daily driving.

F1 cars have a manually tranny without a clutch pedal.

People aren't complaining that it has an automatic per se, they are complaining about the loss of power with the torque converter vs a clutch.

I am sure that in time, more and more performance cars will come with DSG or SMG.

[CKY]

IS still gets my vote due to the looks of the BMW thats just not BMW nor Bengal. The 3series just doesn't have the looks anymore. :dunno: IMO they were better off letting Bengal freelance on this one too. I mean other than the back end of the 6 and 7 series, I've grown a likeing for his design and the energy it brings. Which is something the 3 doesn't have.

[benyl]

You guys know that the e46 was also a Bangle design right?

[Xtrema]

Everybody is doing the Bangle butt now. So he is just a trend setter.

[Clanche]

Originally posted by CKY
IS still gets my vote due to the looks of the BMW thats just not BMW nor Bengal. The 3series just doesn't have the looks anymore. :dunno: IMO they were better off letting Bengal freelance on this one too. I mean other than the back end of the 6 and 7 series, I've grown a likeing for his design and the energy it brings. Which is something the 3 doesn't have.

Its funny about the 3 series... I wasn't a huge fan of the look of the e90 but I have been driving one around for a day now and it has really grown on me.. even the interior.. more simple than I usually like but it becomes part of the genius of it..

I was reading 1992 reviews from various magazines about the new 3 series when it came out (the e36) and everyone was bitching on how they were too round and the styling was all wrong and it didnt have the 3 series charm anymore.. its funny how now everyone looks back to that generation... :)

maybe the 3 series designs are always a little ahead of their time :thumbsup:

[Gripenfelter]

My cousins own BMWs. I've seen their repair and service bills. For that reason I would buy a Lexus if I was in the market for one of these cars.

[carguy]

im a Lexus fan, but yea I kind of figured the beemer was gonna take home the win. Every comparison out there favours the Bavarian over the Japanese. sad reality :(

[Fuji]

Originally posted by C4S
I still remember few yr ago .. ( actually 6 yr ago? )

I priced out a loaded IS300 ( ~220HP ) was app. $36K+tax esafter $3K rebates from Toyota ..

vs a Loaded 328I with leather, premium package etc .. was $60K + taxes and only 190HP ...

So .. with 15% more HP .. and $34K less .. I bought the IS 300 ... which was better value ..

But now, you look at a loaded IS350 and a loaded 330i .. IS350 actually cost more! and about 18% more HP .. so ... :dunno:


I'm pretty sure a new IS300 loaded was more like 46K not 36K in loaded trim

[C4S]

Originally posted by Fuji



I'm pretty sure a new IS300 loaded was more like 46K not 36K in loaded trim


I mean .. app. 6 yr ago .. when I bought the IS300 ... not fully fully loaded, but few options .. app. $40k+tax, but then $3xxx discount as usual from lexus .. back then :D

[CKY]

Originally posted by benyl
You guys know that the e46 was also a Bangle design right?

I know that but what I'm saying is that there was too much at stake for him to go wild on it like he did with the 5 and 6 series. Resulting in this half and half of... nothing special.