97-98 Talon

[Greeno85]

I have been in love with DSM's ever since I first did some serious research into them. However, at that time because of my budget I only really looked into the 1G's. I recently started a new career and now have funding to look to newer models.:D

Tsi AWD is a must. And I'd love to have a 98.

Hopefully the collective knowledge here can help me out:
1. Of the 95-98s, is there a compelling reason to buy one model year over another? (Everything I read about 1G said 92 was the best of those years with the slightly beefier internals)
2. Were there recalls in any of the 95-98s, or consistent problems like the Timing Belts of old?
3. My long term goal is to build or re-build a powerful engine (what else?) will the rest of the drivetrain need modification to handle this? By powerful I mean capable of running 11s (I was told below 11.5s in the 1/4 and you need to install a roll cage, which I don't want)
4. I found on Wikipedia that there were 2957 produced in 98, would anyone know where I could find out how many of each Esi, Tsi, Tsi AWD? It'd be nice to know what kind of selection I'm working with.

Thats all i can think of atm, reply away :bigpimp:

[Forcefed]

Originally posted by Greeno85
I have been in love with DSM's ever since I first did some serious research into them. However, at that time because of my budget I only really looked into the 1G's. I recently started a new career and now have funding to look to newer models.:D

Tsi AWD is a must. And I'd love to have a 98.

Hopefully the collective knowledge here can help me out:
1. Of the 95-98s, is there a compelling reason to buy one model year over another? (Everything I read about 1G said 92 was the best of those years with the slightly beefier internals)
2. Were there recalls in any of the 95-98s, or consistent problems like the Timing Belts of old?
3. My long term goal is to build or re-build a powerful engine (what else?) will the rest of the drivetrain need modification to handle this? By powerful I mean capable of running 11s (I was told below 11.5s in the 1/4 and you need to install a roll cage, which I don't want)
4. I found on Wikipedia that there were 2957 produced in 98, would anyone know where I could find out how many of each Esi, Tsi, Tsi AWD? It'd be nice to know what kind of selection I'm working with.

Thats all i can think of atm, reply away :bigpimp:

1. 92 is better because of the 6/4 combo. Meaning the 6 bolt engine with a 4 bolt rear. All 1G's had beefy rods that came in a 6 bolt

2. The 7 bolt is famous for crankwalk it happends to a few dsms. The better to avoid it, is to spend the 2,000 but a JDM enigne from a 1G and dont worry about walk cause 1G's dont. Also, because when it does walk your bill will be higher then 2000....

3.11's, hey well I had my car there, I was in for about 22,000 and just in engine and stuff. The best way to get there is to full beef-up the engine. I mean the block can hold 450 with stock rods and pistons. The way u go is up to you, I sugest buying a done up car rather then build one, it will save you half.

4. Search google, for dsm specifications...

[b_t]

The 97 is supposedly the worst year for crank walk problems. The only other difference, if I remember right, was the "TSi AWD" badging was a different color, other then that it was all small things. A 98 will typically have less miles, stuff like that...

If you want to run 11s, then a 97 or a 98 doesn't matter since by that point, since just to be on the safe side you should swap to a 6 bolt just as reassurance your engine work isn't going to all go to waste.

You don't necessarily need to buy the car all done up, if you go to Ontario it is easy to find ones that are fixed up, out here it is somewhat more rare... but even then, you can buy a built up 6 bolt off ca.dsm.org and save money there, stuff like that. Building the car is a lot of fun anyway.

It is easy to run 11s in a DSM and blow it up and then blame the car. If you want to do it right and make it through a whole racing season, you would need to pay at least $10k, and that is with SMART spending.

[Genjuro]

Originally posted by b_t
The 97 is supposedly the worst year for crank walk problems. The only other difference, if I remember right, was the "TSi AWD" badging was a different color, other then that it was all small things. A 98 will typically have less miles, stuff like that...



95 to 97 are the worst for walk.

[boarderfatty]

97-98 (2gb) are my favorite talons the spoiler, bumpers and sideskirts are way nicer than the 95-96(2ga) talons

As for the performance you are looking at i would really consider doing a stroke kit along with a 6 bolt swap. With a proper fuel system and big turbo you can push big numbers on a 2.0L engine but that will be at high rpm, at low rpm your gonna be having pretty bad turbo lag which would take away from the 1/4 mile times.

A good site to goto is dsms.ca and talk to Ron from revolution motorsports. he has a 98 talon awd that did 10.8 with full interior, 18" wheels and street tires. He also did this with his intercooler piping falling out in the last few hundred feet. He has the car you want with times you are looking for, so it might be in your interest to contact him

[Greeno85]

Originally posted by boarderfatty
97-98 (2gb) are my favorite talons the spoiler, bumpers and sideskirts are way nicer than the 95-96(2ga) talons

agreed, and considering I am so in love with these cars and I want mine to be around forever, I will be looking for a 97-98 :D


Originally posted by boarderfatty
As for the performance you are looking at i would really consider doing a stroke kit along with a 6 bolt swap.
by 6 bolt swap you mean putting a first gen enigine in right? sorry I've been out for saturday and am too tired to confirm..

just for clarification I plan to build whatever engine will get me the bhp and 1/4 times I'm looking for.... time and money will be secondary, we ALL get time and Money is easy enough to save, with proper motivation :D

also, there are lots of modded DSMs out there, and I think I'd rather start with a clean one and do it up myself, any reason not to?

[Forcefed]

Simple, Cars are not a gaining investment, buy one with some mods but not alot. Look for something that has the "base" parts covered, then take it as far as you want. By buying a stock one and putting new parts in your just going tospend more money!

[boarderfatty]

Originally posted by Greeno85

by 6 bolt swap you mean putting a first gen enigine in right?

Ya i was talking abour a first gen engine 91 and previous i believe only though 92+ had same engine as 97-98. Reason i sugest this is because you can often pick up a used usdm 6 bolt for under $1000 or jdm evoIII engine for a little more, these engines give a way stronger more reliable platform(not prone to crankwalk etc)
and have way more aftermarket support, the only thing maybe worth keeping would be the 2nd gen head which some prefer

Another option is buying a race built engine and just do the externals yourself, a guy on nacdsm is running a magnus stroker and gives it nothing but praises, I have also heard great things about FFWD engines. Shep's 7 second talon is running a slowboy engine right now i believe, but i heared their service is crap. You can buy the engines in parts and assemble it yourself, or buy a running engine depending on how much you want to spend.

If you are planning on doing this much work buy a manual car (not do an auto to standard swap) and get a race transmission from someone like sheptranny's or magnus because your stock tranny wont handle the power. Another thing to swap would be the rear end for a 4 bolt one from a 1st gen because 2nd gens dont do well with more than 550hp ive heared

The best thing would be look at some dsm specific forums. dsmtalk.com and dsmtuners for general( too big and too many idiots for specific stuff). and talk to Ron(Revolution/TalonGT) from dsms.ca and nacdsm.org, or Kris(Lunchbox) from nacdsm.org, both are running cars with results similar to ones you are looking for, and were both helpful when i was planning the build on my 95 talon.
here are some pics of rons car running with 18"rims and street tires and full interior and 600+hp. first is a 10.8 sec runs with his intercooler falling out, and second is one with him spinning all four tires through first in 11 sec
http://talongt66.4t.com/rm10.wmv
http://talongt66.4t.com/rmspin.wmv

[Forcefed]

^^^^

Do you know how much money ron has in his car?? LOL its not like the average person can just dump 50K+ into a street/drag car and make it 10-11 seconds....You guys think its is soo easy to hit 11's you have another thing commin...Try finding someone in Canada who can properly tune AEM Stand alone for a talon with no base maps! Even if you do find an AWD dyno or a viscus coupling eliminator....they charge sick amounts per hour....

And if you ghetto rig the tuning you will be asking for problem after probelm ect ect!! Its for this reason alone why DSM's have abad name..they will make the power but are ghetto rigged to shit.....Like I said buy a clean on from BC with some mods save some cash call it a day!!!


Also, from 12s to11s in a dsm is roughly 6-10K if you just turn up the boost without supporting mods, your going to go BANG....

[boarderfatty]

I realize all that went into Rons car and i know how hard it is to make an 10-11 second car, I was planning a buildup this summer so i know what goes into it i was looking at spending 20000 to get my car running low 12s with a manual swap and whatever mods i have now that i could keep, but his post said his et time and hp were a priority and budget and time were secondary, there is the option to do the build over a couple years, buy externals this year, new engine and proper tuning next year, or something like that

[Forcefed]

why would u do a manual swap if you are doing it strickly for times.....anyone who knows dsm's knows an auto will be faster in a 1/4 then a manual....I think thats standard for any car though once you talk big HP numbers...

[boarderfatty]

If you build up an auto properly it will be faster than a manual, but a manual tranny is more fun and there is alot more suport for it. You can send your manual tranny to shep racing and have their dogbox tranny installed for 5800 and its capable of handling 8sec runs, trying to find someone that has experience with DSM auto tranny's and getting them to build it to the level of the dogbox for the same price would be quite a strech

[boarderfatty]

you can even do a stage 4 from shep which is still capable of 8 sec runs for 2100

[heavyD]

Originally posted by boarderfatty
Ya i was talking abour a first gen engine 91 and previous i believe only though 92+ had same engine as 97-98. Reason i sugest this is because you can often pick up a used usdm 6 bolt for under $1000 or jdm evoIII engine for a little more, these engines give a way stronger more reliable platform(not prone to crankwalk etc)
and have way more aftermarket support, the only thing maybe worth keeping would be the 2nd gen head which some prefer


Umm.....you know the EVOIII uses the exact same 7-bolt engine that 2G DSM's used. Also 1G DSM's built after April of 1992 have 7-bolt engines but they are different from 2G 7-bolt engines. There is no reliable information on crankwalk as there was never any hard data and the fact that almost every guy with a failed 7-bolt usually blames it on CW even if they spun a rod bearing has made it virtually impossible to even acknoweledge how widespread the problem was. Regardless the 6-bolt is a better platform for a fully built engine. The change to 7-bolt was to make a more responsive engine but one side effect was less robust bottom end.

[90s_tuner]

Originally posted by Forcefed
^^^^

Do you know how much money ron has in his car?? LOL its not like the average person can just dump 50K+ into a street/drag car and make it 10-11 seconds....

haha you need 50 grand to make your car run 11s...? maybe if you're clueless and bring it to a shop and have them build it from scratch. Even then you're bill would be nowhere near 50, 000.

[b_t]

Originally posted by 90s_tuner


haha you need 50 grand to make your car run 11s...? maybe if you're clueless and bring it to a shop and have them build it from scratch. Even then you're bill would be nowhere near 50, 000.

no kidding. you'd need to be a gigantic idiot to need $50k to get into the 11s.

[Bill Cosby]

if you spend $50k you better be running 7s LOL

[MIWYFSHOTTER]

Talons are nice cars, crankwalk is overrated anyways. People always say crap like ohh my car walked when actually their timing belt snapped.