Stuff to read....

[Toma]

US and Brits caught in the middle of phony Iraq nucelar arms scandal:
http://www.newyorker.com/fact/content/?030331fa_fact1

You can look into this further, they provide names, organiztions etc.... if you want. Not surprising to me, but maybe to you?

Really good Robert Fisk phone interview (he is a journalist still in Baghdad.... VERY GOOD). Really gives a perspective on what is going on from the Iraqis side.

http://www.zmag.org/content/showarticle.cfm?SectionID=36&ItemID=3323

Us/Brits target TV station in baghdad for a second time and bomb a market, killing at least 14 civilians http://www.independent.co.uk/ and http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/2890015.stm

John Pilger on the current terror in Basra http://pilger.carlton.com/print/132858

A few common myths about Iraq:
http://www.zmag.org/content/showarticle.cfm?SectionID=15&ItemID=2528

Background and some history to the conflict, and support for both sides....

http://www.merip.org/iraq_backgrounder_102202/iraq_background2_merip.pdf

The sanctions and oil for food explained:
http://www.casi.org.uk/guide/

Von Sponeck Interview (the second UN Humanitarian Coordinator for Iraq to resign - after Dennis Halliday). These are the people that KNOW the real affects and devestation the sanctions CAUSED, plus how they are used politically by the US A MUST READ

http://www.zmag.org/vonsponek.htm

By the way, the chemical weapons "factory" found in Iraq as reported by Fox was a HOAX started by some Isreali news paper. The US has suddenly gone quiet about that matter.

Toma

[Ben]

I read alot of what you had to say on P Shop Toma...you sure do have a distaste for the US involvement, haha

Good reading for sure, I have already seen a few articles regarding the topics you mentioned, presents an often cloused perspective.

[ninspeed]

this whole war is a bag scam. If anyting, CNN is just as much to blame for the war, as bush JR. CNN wants the ratings, and they helped spead WAY too much propaganda. I know alot of people are pissed that canada is not pubiclay supporting bush, But i support the fact that canada is a peace keeping country, we cant finght the wars that a little kid in a sand box starts

[grideTLS]

Thanks Toma. Thanks for seeing through the US lies and providing proof for the beyond community. We live in an information age and there is no excuse to look at CNN for answers. This war is a true form of imperialism and occupation. The US speaks about laws, human rights, and the Geneva Convention. Who are they to talk about these things when they themselves do not have respect for them. They claim they want to liberate the Iraqi people but how are they going about doing so by the use of Tomahawk missiles and a blitz of bombs.

I believe the coalition as they call it has been taken off guard by the Iraqi resistance in areas believed to be against the Iraqi regime. This is true because the entire Iraqi people know the truth about the coalition plans. Iraq is under occupation and the people are standing firm against this aggression. They will not let Iraq fall as it did way back during the Tatar/Mongul empire. They are a proud people with great history and will defend their land to the bitter end if need be. The "Shock and Awe" meant to be waged against the Iraqi people has turned against the coalition and know the US/British forces are truly "shocked and awed" daily.

This war against humanity must stop, and the voices of the entire world must be heard. The masses opposing this brutal war are increasing and their light is getting brighter. Light will prevail over Blush and Blair's darkness.

Peace,

GrideTLS

[Toma]

Yeah, its hilarious actually...... the people putting up such a fight in Basra are shi-ites who hate Saddam, but hate the idea of a US invasion even more. Liberating them is gonna be fun when they don't wanna be liberated eh?

Iraq has an army of 400,000, plus the ability to call up another 400,000 reservists at any moment (if they arleady haven't). The allies have encountered a scant few thousand.....where are the rest? Someone else smell a boobytrap or possible ambush???

The US cannot win a street by street, hand to hand war in Baghdad against those sorts of numbers. They will intensify the air campaign, and start bombing more and more civilian targets in an effort to get a surrender as they did in Serbia....

Toma

[max_boost]

The U.S is gonna attack themselves with WMD and then blame it on the Iraqi's. After that, it'll provide them with an legitmate excuse to use WMD and take out the country and end the war!

Something is going to have to give, Bush has just asked for 75billion U.S. With the amount of protesting, disapproval for war, increase casualties of U.S forces and Iraqi civilians, plus the famine that will result, I can't see the war going on for too long.

[Weapon_R]

The most interesting thing is that the stupid Americans think that the Iraqis are going to sit back and watch them take over Iraq. The thing that they don't understand is that women and children, men and seniors will attack these fools with rocks and pots and dinner knives as soon as they walk into Baghdad, let alone the Iraqi army that has no option but to repel an attack or allow the US to create another farce like they did in Palestine.

When it comes to urban combat, not even a million fighter jets can do fuck all. The Iraqi Kalashnikov rifles are just as capable as the best American rifles in urban warefare. And it's my bet that the Iraqis have more to fight for than the Americans do. My bet is that it's going to be a bloodbath.

[max_boost]

Some people might think I am crazy but I firmly believe the U.S did 9/11 to themselves. It was probably planned for years by the CIA, nothing is ever as it seems! It gives them an excuse to attempt to take over the middle east starting with Iraq.
Next thing you know, Iran, Saudi Arabia and all those countries will have WMD.

[max_boost]

Originally posted by Weapon_R
The most interesting thing is that the stupid Americans think that the Iraqis are going to sit back and watch them take over Iraq. The thing that they don't understand is that women and children, men and seniors will attack these fools with rocks and pots and dinner knives as soon as they walk into Baghdad, let alone the Iraqi army that has no option but to repel an attack or allow the US to create another farce like they did in Palestine.

When it comes to urban combat, not even a million fighter jets can do fuck all. The Iraqi Kalashnikov rifles are just as capable as the best American rifles in urban warefare. And it's my bet that the Iraqis have more to fight for than the Americans do. My bet is that it's going to be a bloodbath.
Oh, it's going to get ugly for sures man.....it'll be interesting.....:nut:

[Toma]

Shit, I was too late, my prediction is coming true already....this story JUST IN from Robert Fisk who is a british journalist STILL in Baghdad (he has covered many conflicts in the past as well). His eye witness account on civilian targets....

http://argument.independent.co.uk/commentators/story.jsp?story=391165

Toma

[Weapon_R]

Originally posted by max_boost
Next thing you know, Iran, Saudi Arabia and all those countries will have WMD.

It is honestly my hope to see the US invade the rest of the Arab countries. One thing that they don't have is heart, and I think with the joke played on the Palestinians for the past 53 years (Anyone recall Bush Sr. promising the Palestinians statehood in 1991 by any chance?) the Arabs aren't going to fuck around anymore. Besides that, Iran is a huge country with a passionate people. When they rise, they will fucking rise. The only reason Iraq defeated Iran was because of the constant influx of funds being transferred to Iraq by the worlds nations (US was the biggest contributor btw, and even after the Chemicals were dropped on the dissident Kurds). I also hope to god that the US concentrates its efforts on North Korea after Iraq. The more that the US gets it's nose into, the better.

On the issue of CNN, I urge most of you (at least those of immigrant descent) to check out your countries national news station. You'd be surprised what CNN hides from us. I am always tuned into Al-Jazeera, where bodies of American soldiers are shown that could cover a football field. CNN's claim of casualties in Iraq so far - 47. I could literally count hundreds lying there, so what you see here on CNN is bullshit. They are a news station that is probably owned by the US government :)

[Weapon_R]

Originally posted by Toma
Shit, I was too late, my prediction is coming true already....this story JUST IN from Robert Fisk who is a british journalist STILL in Baghdad (he has covered many conflicts in the past as well). His eye witness account on civilian targets....

http://argument.independent.co.uk/commentators/story.jsp?story=391165

Toma

I'm willing to bet this is the 30 second story that CNN plays, if it does so at all. God bless Fisk, he's the only Western reporter whose actually with it.

[Toma]

Yeah, its alwasy hilarious.... Iraq claims prisoners, US denies, Iraq show prisoners, US concedes. Iraq claims many dead americans, US denies, Iraq shows american bodies, US conceds. Iraq claims downed attack chopper, US denies, Iraq show downed chopper, US admits it. IRaq claims another downed chopper......

You get it ;) That's the REAL REASON the US has now started to attack the civilian TV stations, which is CLEARLY against the Geneva convention which the US was just whining about the other day it seems ;)

Toma

[HK2NR]

Originally posted by Weapon_R



On the issue of CNN, I urge most of you (at least those of immigrant descent) to check out your countries national news station. You'd be surprised what CNN hides from us. I am always tuned into Al-Jazeera, where bodies of American soldiers are shown that could cover a football field. CNN's claim of casualties in Iraq so far - 47. I could literally count hundreds lying there, so what you see here on CNN is bullshit. They are a news station that is probably owned by the US government :)

yeah man i agree.. like that video of the POWS that they refused to show but other cultural stations did air that.

[Weapon_R]

Originally posted by Toma
Yeah, its alwasy hilarious.... Iraq claims prisoners, US denies, Iraq show prisoners, US concedes. Iraq claims many dead americans, US denies, Iraq shows american bodies, US conceds. Iraq claims downed attack chopper, US denies, Iraq show downed chopper, US admits it. IRaq claims another downed chopper......

You get it ;) That's the REAL REASON the US has now started to attack the civilian TV stations, which is CLEARLY against the Geneva convention which the US was just whining about the other day it seems ;)

Toma

Iraqi television was an imminent threat to the American military man...wtf are you talking about :confused:

If all of you guys tuned into international news stations, you'd get a much better picture of whats going on. The US army denied everything (POWs, Apache's downed etc), until Al-Jazeera and other stations shove the truth up their asses. Don't believe what you see.

I also get a kick out of all of the "mechanical failures" that happen to occur during the war. The US and Britain have lost a number of aircraft due to this but i'm pretty sure there have been "other" factors that have caused these occurances.

[HK2NR]

i'm surprised that US actually admitted that they shot down a fellow UK aircraft.....

[Toma]

Originally posted by HK2NR
i'm surprised that US actually admitted that they shot down a fellow UK aircraft.....

LOL, maybe, but what was the alternative....admitting Iraq shot it down? :D

[HK2NR]

US BS department must have been taking a coffee break when that happened... guess they couldn't think up a better excuse except "whoops"

[boi-alien]

i hate those american idiots that were on TV saying that Iraq was threatening their freedom. how the fuck is iraq threatening your freedom? if this iraqi war turns out to be another vietnam it'll be funny. all those americans back in the day that died in the vietnam war, what did they die for? NOTHING!!!! nothing changed after the war, they weren't able to overthrow the communists. and to say stupid things like "we're liberating the iraqi people!" did they ever ask you to liberate them?

you know what else i heard on the chinese news. those oil fires that have been started, they were started by the americans themselves.

[three.eighteen.]

Originally posted by ninspeed
WAY too much propaganda.

no shit...just watching fox they play the cheesiest commercials to evoke patriotism in americans...the americans in every sense are making a mockery of the word FREEDOM

[Toma]

Oh shit man....just ventured over to CNN.... talk about baseless propoganda and accusations:

"Woman hung for waving at coalition forces"
"Mural found depicted WTC crash"
"POW's executed"
"US did not bomb the market where 14 were killed"
"US did not bomb the poor area of baghdad that killed 30" (I guess they did it to themselves, kinda like Max suggested about 911) lol

fuck its like the national enquirer over there. LOL....

Toma

[HK2NR]

:rofl: national enquirer!! haha yeah it does seem like that now

[James]

Originally posted by max_boost
Some people might think I am crazy but I firmly believe the U.S did 9/11 to themselves. It was probably planned for years by the CIA, nothing is ever as it seems! It gives them an excuse to attempt to take over the middle east starting with Iraq.
Next thing you know, Iran, Saudi Arabia and all those countries will have WMD.

A couple weeks ago a Freind sent me a really interesting link to a "conspriracy theory" type site about how 9/11 didnt happen how everyone thinks it did, lots of really wierd facts that support the case that 9/11 was "planned" by U.S intelligance, kinda hard to beleive, but it kinda makes sense, if i could only find that link.

[T5_X]

Originally posted by James


A couple weeks ago a Freind sent me a really interesting link to a "conspriracy theory" type site about how 9/11 didnt happen how everyone thinks it did, lots of really wierd facts that support the case that 9/11 was "planned" by U.S intelligance, kinda hard to beleive, but it kinda makes sense, if i could only find that link.

I've seen a few sites with the same thing. There are certainly a few fishy things about 9/11 but I wouldn't go so far as to say the US planned it. It was more of a blunder in US intelligence, they knew it would happen soon and they didn't do shit. The fact that they didn't do shit was probably no coincidence though.

In any event, 9/11 has NOTHING to do with Iraq. If the Coalition doesn't have huge losses here and if this war is sucessful as planned (which it most certainly won't be unless you watch CNN) then they'll march to Tehran.