Choosing a University

[bball2]

Hey everyone, just wondering if you guys could give me some advice on some universities. First of all, I am a high school student and I will be going off to university this fall. I applied to three, U of C (engineering), U of Western Ontario (engineering + business), and U of Waterloo (math + business), and I've gotten acceptance to all three (which I wasn't expecting, so it kinda makes my decision a little harder)

If I go to U of C, I'll pretty much be living with my parents while going to school the entire time, and for the other two I'd prolly live in res the first year and out of campus housing for the rest. For the two ontario universities, both programs I applied for are co-op, so I'd be going to school half the time, and getting work experience the other half which sounds really appealing.

I've also gotten around $6,000 worth of scholarships to universities in general, and $4,000 for U of C specifically. So If I do go to the U of C I really won't have any financial problems, living at home and working I think I should be able to finish Univeristy without any student loans. The other two universities however, would be primarily done with student loans.

So basically what I'm trying to ask is: do you guys think going away to university on mostly student loans is worth it just for the program they offer? Also if you guys have any comments about the specific programs mentioned above, please feel free to drop off your 2 cents.

[kaput]

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[Xtrema]

U Waterloo are the best math/computer science school in the country. Think of it as our version of MIT. A lot of big name tech firm recruit from there. If that's the direction you're going, you should give it a try.

U of C is ok. If you can't afford to go elsewhere, then stick around. To me, most programs @ UC is probably as prestigeous as DeVry. I think only business and law has a bit of better rating. Everything else is junk.

[camby]

To answer your question, the only choice where I would consider going away is the U of Western Ontario route you have there. A great program from what I have heard from people who have gone that route.

I don't think student loans would be too bad since you are a co-op student and you did get scholarships. Chances are you'll get scholarships every year and a good co-op job.

[Weapon_R]

U of C has an excellent engineering program and you'll be better off saving your money than blowing it on rent/food/bills while you're gone.

[Aleks]

U of C Engineering. Take the internship program there 8-16 months of work, (easy to get). Once you have that you're set here in Calgary. Diploma is just a diploma in most cases to get your foot in the door. Stay at home save, no student loans = your own home faster, car, toys etc etc.

[gpomp]

leave the city. you have the next 40 years of your life to pay off any debts. it's true that the quality of education is roughly the same but you have to remember you only spend maybe 5 hrs a day at school.

the point is if you go to the place like waterloo where most of the students are from out of town, you'll be hanging around them for most of the other 21 hrs since they are in the same situation as you. i GUARANTEE you won't be doing that if you stay in calgary. you will also meet lots of new people from all over the country and some from other countries as well. it's very hard to describe the experience but i would definately recommend it.

try not to let the financial issues affect your decision too much. i just finished and have tons of debt but i would do it all over again with hesitation. you can always get loans, bursaries, etc.

coles notes: education is the same, experience is completely different, leave the city.

[LuxCars]

Hey man im in the same situation but i think the best bet is to stay at the U of C, Its just so easy and the programs they have to help us as first year engg students are pretty good.

I was contemplating also going to the UofA, they have one of the top three engg facutlies in the country. (thats what one of their reps told me), and i know waterloo is at the top but i doubt its worth it.

I recommend you stay in calgary and let me know what course group your going into and maybe we could help each other out. my friends and I are all applying for the same course groups so we can be in the same classes. So far its looking like we are picking group number 9201.
(maybe i should mention that my friends and I are really smart and like to party so we can probably all help each other balance things out, just trying to help you make up your mind and offer you an idea of what could happen to you at the u of C, plus we know lots of 2nd and third year engg students who can give us lots of stuff and help us in lots of stuff)

let me know man and play it safe and stay in calgary.

[turbotrip]

Originally posted by LuxCars
Its just so easy and the programs they have to help us as first year engg students are pretty good.


what programs are these? and calgary engineering is harder than u of a's.

[LuxCars]

^^

they have lots like Ess, some other one i cant remember the name of where older engg students help out the newer ones, and they are starting another one next year.(this was told to me at the U of C Scholarship winners awards night)

How can you say that, have you done both? engineering is supposed to be a hard course no matter where you are. From what some prof's have told me, they say its designed this way to separate those who will succeed from those who dont have the determination to keep going.

Are you in engg right now or are you going into engg?

[jav_]

i heard waterloo's compsci is the best

[Aleks]

Originally posted by gpomp
leave the city. you have the next 40 years of your life to pay off any debts. it's true that the quality of education is roughly the same but you have to remember you only spend maybe 5 hrs a day at school.

the point is if you go to the place like waterloo where most of the students are from out of town, you'll be hanging around them for most of the other 21 hrs since they are in the same situation as you. i GUARANTEE you won't be doing that if you stay in calgary. you will also meet lots of new people from all over the country and some from other countries as well. it's very hard to describe the experience but i would definately recommend it.

try not to let the financial issues affect your decision too much. i just finished and have tons of debt but i would do it all over again with hesitation. you can always get loans, bursaries, etc.

coles notes: education is the same, experience is completely different, leave the city.

Haha High Roller!

Hang around Rez at UofC and meet girls from out of town. It works :poosie:

[Eleanor]

I just finished first year engg at the U of C and it was awesome, everybody bashes the U of C but their engg and business faculties are great.

[turbotrip]

Originally posted by LuxCars
^^

they have lots like Ess, some other one i cant remember the name of where older engg students help out the newer ones, and they are starting another one next year.(this was told to me at the U of C Scholarship winners awards night)

How can you say that, have you done both? engineering is supposed to be a hard course no matter where you are. From what some prof's have told me, they say its designed this way to separate those who will succeed from those who dont have the determination to keep going.

Are you in engg right now or are you going into engg?

just to let u know in advance so u dont get disappointed next year, ESS is just an office where u can buy previous exams from. Its pretty useless, and EDIC is the Engineering Drop In Center which is where u can ask some TA's questions, but many of the TA's are oblivious.
And I know U of C is harder than U of A because my friend switched after a semester and got a 1.0 GPA boost when he went to U of A while doing the same amount of work. Plus some of the profs here have taught at edmonton and say the same.
And Im in engg right now

[blitz]

Originally posted by gpomp
leave the city. you have the next 40 years of your life to pay off any debts. it's true that the quality of education is roughly the same but you have to remember you only spend maybe 5 hrs a day at school.

the point is if you go to the place like waterloo where most of the students are from out of town, you'll be hanging around them for most of the other 21 hrs since they are in the same situation as you. i GUARANTEE you won't be doing that if you stay in calgary. you will also meet lots of new people from all over the country and some from other countries as well. it's very hard to describe the experience but i would definately recommend it.

try not to let the financial issues affect your decision too much. i just finished and have tons of debt but i would do it all over again with hesitation. you can always get loans, bursaries, etc.

coles notes: education is the same, experience is completely different, leave the city.

Or you could use all of the money you save going to UofC and travel the world, downpayment on a house, car etc.

It's all well and good to say "don't worry about debt", but realistically you're mid to late 20's will be much more fun without a student loan payment every month. 40,000 in debt (for example) will put you back 5-6 years financially vs being debt free, and you'll feel that for the rest of your life.

That being said, I lived away from home during school, paid my own way through and came out debt free. Combination of savings, co-op and being the cheapest bastard possible. If there had been a choice and I could have lived at home, I could have saved 40k+ during school and be that much better off.

[doublepostwhore]

Man.

Where to begin. Seriously the u of c is not that bad, it has NOT established its name as a prestigious university, but really it doesnt matter as all the courses are standardized and accredited.
With that said, employers dont care about standardization, they look for name. If you have the opportunity TAKE IT NOW. if you think that you will be eligible for a transferable in the course 1 year in you are fooling yourself.

90% students, out of highschool obtain 3.0 GPA's its the 80% students that have the brains but not the motivation that achieve the 3.7+ GPA's. Transferables are difficult to get for such a competitive program.

Going away for university is almost a right of passage, ( I am at the u of c althought I grew up here :() at some point you will want to gain some life experience and independance. No better time then now to get aquainted with the realities of living away from papa and moma.

The argument of saving money is completely nullified, co-op programs and scholarships are so SO very numerous that it would be rediculous not to take them up. As an engineering student, the firm (if you get in with the co-op program) will often PAY YOU TO FINISH; not to mention give you 50K right out the door, 5-7 years to pay of your debt while having a decent apartment, car/ standard of living? not bad.

Depending on what you want to specialize in AFTER the co-op program alot of companies are begging for experience. Our economy is not slowing down for atleast 7 years, meaning you already would have finished your degree and have 2 years experience and hopefully some savings.

Debt is less about going away and more about money management, during the summers even working at some shitty ass 9-11$ an hr job you can bring in tuition plus books. I earn about 7K a summer. then again I have also been saving for uni for a few years, and for me housing isd a non-issue.

Its a life experience, sooner or later you will want to try something new, why not do it now when you have the time and the opportunity.

BTW congradulations of those affermentioned schools you got into
That in itself is an achievement!

[V6-BoI]

I would stay in Calgary and attend U of C. Paying off all that debt for student loans, living expenses etc would really suck ass.

U of C's engineering program is pretty good, especially the internship program. You can work 12-16 months and earn like 30+ G's. Also, the engg faculty just got 50 million dollars in donations last year, so hopefully they can spend that money well and make the faculty even better.

[H4LFY2nR]

That Schulich guy donated $25 mil last year because he felt engineering at U of C was the best in the country (he also has a business school in Ontario named after him). For example, in first year at U of C you will do labs using a isothermal pressure cell, no other universities have those machines available for undergraduate labs, and U of C has eight. IMO go to U of C and live at home for the first few years. After 3rd year ,when you go on intership (which at U of C has no limit to the number of students, infact they can't even fill all the positions each year, and the current minimum salary on internship is $3200/month tax free) move out with some buddies and live the dream for the the last two years of school. An internship in Calgary will pretty much guarantee you a job once you graduate (the lowest salary for a junior engineer offered by a company advertising at U of C is $61 500 plus benefits). Res parties are fun, but like they say, everything in moderation. If you plan on moving out just for res partying, I bet you will loose your focus on the reason why your going to school in the first place. Engineering's work load is intense, I have friends in res that are barely making it through simply because they get too distracted in res.

[kaput]

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[H4LFY2nR]

I just went to the internship lecture last month. All my information was straight from the internship office. They said, this year, the minimum salary was $3200/month.

[bball2]

Thanks for all the information you guys, I think I am going to end up going to the U of C.

You guys mentioned a lot of great points, but to make my decision easier I just got another two grand worth of scholarships for Calgary specific post-secondary schools which is great. So I should be able to do the first 2 years without any student loans, and be able to save up enough money from internship for the rest. :)

[kaput]

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[V6-BoI]

Originally posted by kaput
^If thats the case with internship then they made some big changes this year. I also heard that if you hand in a report or review late then you fail haha. I guess all the people who handed every one in late this year kinda fucked you guys over. But its worth it if theres a minimum salary now, even if it is still kinda low. Just another reason to go to U of C.

Whoa you fail for handing in a report late now? Heh I guess the previous interns kinda abused it. One of my friends was telling me, that an intern last year handed in his last report in October, when it was due in August, haha.

[GTS Jeff]

Originally posted by gpomp
leave the city. you have the next 40 years of your life to pay off any debts. it's true that the quality of education is roughly the same but you have to remember you only spend maybe 5 hrs a day at school.

the point is if you go to the place like waterloo where most of the students are from out of town, you'll be hanging around them for most of the other 21 hrs since they are in the same situation as you. i GUARANTEE you won't be doing that if you stay in calgary. you will also meet lots of new people from all over the country and some from other countries as well. it's very hard to describe the experience but i would definately recommend it.

try not to let the financial issues affect your decision too much. i just finished and have tons of debt but i would do it all over again with hesitation. you can always get loans, bursaries, etc.

coles notes: education is the same, experience is completely different, leave the city.

haha yeah, make a lot of fobby friends like Duncan...hahaha jk.
:rofl:

But seriously, there are several things to consider:

-you can make decent coin doing co-op programs. I know of a couple co-op students that are staying debt free or close to it.

-how important is it for you to end your studies with no debt or possibly even with a wad of cash for a down payment on a house?

-obviously living at home is the best from the financial viewpoint, but can you get along with your parents? I remember when I was in Grade 12, I counted the days til I could move out. If you can handle living with your parents for another 4 years, then you're pretty fortunate.

-another thing to consider is that moving out is a huge leap forward in personal development. Living on your own (hopefully) forces you to become more mature than people who live at home can ever comprehend. It's a nice feeling to know that you are more worldly than 30 year old chuck who still lives at home.

HTH

[andres_mt]

Go to the U of C engineering, then I can give you all the first years notes and tests which end up helping out A LOT. Trust me.

[AJL]

Originally posted by gpomp
leave the city. you have the next 40 years of your life to pay off any debts. it's true that the quality of education is roughly the same but you have to remember you only spend maybe 5 hrs a day at school.

the point is if you go to the place like waterloo where most of the students are from out of town, you'll be hanging around them for most of the other 21 hrs since they are in the same situation as you. i GUARANTEE you won't be doing that if you stay in calgary. you will also meet lots of new people from all over the country and some from other countries as well. it's very hard to describe the experience but i would definately recommend it.

try not to let the financial issues affect your decision too much. i just finished and have tons of debt but i would do it all over again with hesitation. you can always get loans, bursaries, etc.

coles notes: education is the same, experience is completely different, leave the city.

I 100% agree. Couldnt have said it better myself. Although I have a few points and experiences to add.
I myself am in the same situation. Its obvious to see that I chose to move away. Mainly to start anew and get some new experiences, meet new people and gain confidence and independence. Maybe I will end up having a bigger debt this way but as gpomp said, you have the next 40 years of your life to pay that money back. You will never get a chance to experience residence, campus life etc. Its the experiences you remember, not the amount of money you spent doing it.
But if you do end up staying at home and going to U of C, then be glad you can only be on the campus no more then you have to. Campus life sucks. U of C has NO school spirit.

[Xtrema]

Originally posted by jav_
i heard waterloo's compsci is the best

Best in the country. Microsoft usually just grab the top students from this school.

[mo_money2supe]

Take it from a guy who's spent 3 years at U of C AND has also gone away for University to finish the rest of his degree, you accomplish so much more when you're not at home. No doubt about it!

Yes, I enjoyed being able to spend my summer earnings on my car, gf, vacation, whatever, but having been kicked out of UC because of a stupid 1.49 GPA, and then rebounding to a 3.3+ GPA away from home since I had nothing better to do than to study, I think is pretty impressive and motivating.

BUT, bball2, if you're already such a high achiever in HS, it sounds like University may not be much of a challenge for you. It sounds like you've got your act together already and are capable of keeping your tasks in check. WRONG!!! That's what I once thought too when I entered UC...believe it or not, I once had 90%+ averages, that's AVERAGES, not individual courses. Then look what happened? :banghead: Yeah, I may be that 1 in 65,000 pearl in a clam shell, but hey, anything can happen to anybody.

In any case though, I do wish you the best in September. PM me and I can offer you some lectures on how not to become the 10-20% statistic that fails out of Engineering. And yes, bad things do happen, but in EVERY single case afterwards, something much better happens as a result.

[andres_mt]

Originally posted by mo_money2supe
Take it from a guy who's spent 3 years at U of C AND has also gone away for University to finish the rest of his degree, you accomplish so much more when you're not at home. No doubt about it!

Yes, I enjoyed being able to spend my summer earnings on my car, gf, vacation, whatever, but having been kicked out of UC because of a stupid 1.49 GPA, and then rebounding to a 3.3+ GPA away from home since I had nothing better to do than to study, I think is pretty impressive and motivating.

BUT, bball2, if you're already such a high achiever in HS, it sounds like University may not be much of a challenge for you. It sounds like you've got your act together already and are capable of keeping your tasks in check. WRONG!!! That's what I once thought too when I entered UC...believe it or not, I once had 90%+ averages, that's AVERAGES, not individual courses. Then look what happened? :banghead: Yeah, I may be that 1 in 65,000 pearl in a clam shell, but hey, anything can happen to anybody.

In any case though, I do wish you the best in September. PM me and I can offer you some lectures on how not to become the 10-20% statistic that fails out of Engineering. And yes, bad things do happen, but in EVERY single case afterwards, something much better happens as a result.

Very true, but unless you have family or friends you can with away from home. Then paying for housing and food will destroy your funds. But sometimes I think that stuff is worth it in the end since your only in University once in your life.

[TimG]

my two cents:

If you're asking a bunch of people here what university to go to, you're in trouble because you don't seem to know what you want to spend the next 4 years doing. You should select your program based on what you want to study, not what other people tell you to do. I know it's a difficult choice, but you're better off doing what you like.

That said, my suggestion is to go to Waterloo or UWO.

1. Coop. nuff said. make $ AND get your foot in the door with potential future employers. i wish i had a coop program available to me when i did my undergrad.

2. There are lots of scholarship programs available in ontario. http://osap.gov.on.ca/ and also http://www.nserc.ca

3. Guelph/Waterloo is also close to TO if you care about that.

4. there are a lot of technology companies in the G/W area like RIM. There was a prof who i've worked with in the past in the engineering dept at waterloo who. I think waterloo also has more Canada Research Chairs than UWO and UC combined.

5. my impression of UC engineering is strong in oil and gas related engineering and some types of mechanical engineering so you're going to get a biased education.

Like someone previously mentioned, so what if university x has equipment for their first year labs that nobody else in the country has. when you're in first year, you NEVER catch what's going on in the labs. I know this from going thru 1st year labs and being a TA. having good profs is more important than having equipment that "no other university in the country has" (maybe all those other universities realized that it's not worth buying fancy expensive equipment like that for 1st year labs and bought better equipment for 3rd and 4th year labs where it matters?)

while it's probably not as important in undergrad, by going away to another school you get a chance to see how things are done in other labs, which is invaluble. I did my undergrad at the university of ottawa, grad school in a government lab, and postdoc at UBC. At each place I learned different ways of doing things and ways of approaching tasks. Of course, being able to see the country was a plus too :D


Good luck with your descision

[TimG]

Originally posted by kaput
And I haven't heard anyone say that another schools engg coop program is better than U of C's. They are generally fragmented and low paying or even no paying wastes of time where you do titrations or file shit for 4 months and learn nothing. I know thats how waterloo does it, not sure about UWO.

Are you speaking from experience?

I've had my share of coop students pass thru the labs i've worked in and they didn't do anything like titrations (yay for chemistry) or file shit.

and yes, i've had coop students from waterloo, UofT, UVic, UOttawa, and Carleton U.

If you're speaking from personal experience, what field were you studying and what year were you in when this happened?