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GreyFox
05-28-2006, 12:33 PM
Hey guys,

I always found this my favorite part of the forum and have learned a crap load from listening to you guys talk. I finally got to use my friends Nikon D50 for about 2 mins and was hooked on buying a new (and better camera).

I'm currently using a Canon Powershot SD300 and I want to upgrade to something that allows me to use full manual mode.

Before I even start looking, I have a few question that I'm sure you guys could probably clarify for me.

I've never really used a full manual camera before, but I do know quite abit about how to use them etc... What would a good novice camera be? I'm thinking about the Nikon D50, Canon 350D (can't remember what it is some of you guys use...but that's the one I'm referring to) or I've heard you guys talk about some Canon Digital Rebel XT or something like that. I'm only looking to spend about 1000 on this, not too much more then that.

Now for the other questions:

Do they take the same SD memory card as my previous camera?

Would it be necessary for me to buy new lenses right away...or is the one it comes with good enough? Like if I'm taking a scenery shot, is it going to turn out like crap if I don't have a telescopic lens? Or if I'm taking pics of bugs, are they not going to turn out without a macro lens?

Where do I begin to look around for these things? Futureshop and BestBuy don't seem to carry them...and that's usually where I buy all this kind of stuff haha.

I'm guessing no...but do any of these cameras have a movie mode like my previous one?

Is it necessary that I learn how to post-process right away to make my shots that much better? Or for the start is it ok if I just don't touch them at all?

Are these cameras long lasting? My friend said they tend to last a very long time...I don't want to spend a grand on something that's I'm going to have to replace in a year or so. (Yes I take good care of my stuff haha)

I had a crap load more questions but I can't remember them right now...I'm sure I'll think of them later. Thanks in advance for the replies!

DJ Lazy
05-28-2006, 01:46 PM
- The Canon 350D and Digital Rebel XT are the same camera, just that the full name is split up when we talk sometimes.. Canon 350D XT...

- Not sure about the D50, but my XT takes CF cards..

- It is not imperative to go out and buy new lenses.. the kit lens will work until you get a proper grasp of how to properly use the camera and get comfortable with it. Due to the large range of lens available, it is best to determine what style of shooting you are really into. No point in spending money on a Telephoto lens when your style of shooting doesn't require those types of focal lengths.... etc etc..

- Best Buy and Futureshop do carry the new Canon 30D and are just starting to sell off all their remaining Canon XT (in black bodies :whipped: , which they didn't have when I purchased mine) as the XT is coming close to the end of it retail life cycle.

- D-SLR cameras do not have the video record function, as you guessed.

- Post Processing... Can be a touchy subject.. its not imperative to learn that either.. I know that some of the member on here barely use Post Processing (Photoshop and the like) and some of the others use it a fair bit.. Regardless you have to have a well composed shot to begin with, before you decide to work with it or not. ;)

- These DSLR's are known to last for around 50,000-100,000 frames.. The only thing is that every year some "bigger and better" comes out and may tempt you to upgrade... otherwise it should last you quite some time.!!

TurboMedic
05-28-2006, 02:57 PM
The D50 does take SD cards, some don't like that, I don't mind......Also I think either way you go, D50 or XT they are both good entry level cameras that take phenomenal pics when you get the technique down. A few of us on here own these bodies. When getting into SLR's, you invest in lenses, and bodies, as was mentioned above, get better all the time. The nice thing is, you only have to buy the lenses once, and from then on in you can stop buying the "kits" and buying the bodies, which so long as you stay with your manufacturer (Nikon/Canon/Pentax) you can continue to use your lenses....Also should mention the Pentax *ist is in the entry class too.

Goto pbase.com to view cample pics taken from various cameras and lenses

goto dpreview.com to read about the cameras and reviews.

GreyFox
05-30-2006, 08:02 PM
When you say that the XT is coming to the end of it's retail life cycle, does that mean that Canon has already announced it's next replacement product for the XT?

Should I be waiting around a few months for the newer one to come out?

Would you guys agree that even though I am somewhat of a novice it would be a good idea to buy a very good and pretty advanced camera right now so then I don't have to keep upgrading as I learn more?

Also, I stopped in Best Buy today and the guy was talking about the differences between the Nikon D50 and the D70 and he said with the D50 you can only control one thing at a time (aperature, shutter speed etc...) but with the D70 you can control both.... Doesn't it defeat the purpose of a manual camera if you can only control shutter speed and not aperature in a single shot? Or is he just bullshitting to get me to buy it?

BerserkerCatSplat
05-30-2006, 08:34 PM
Originally posted by GreyFox

Also, I stopped in Best Buy today and the guy was talking about the differences between the Nikon D50 and the D70 and he said with the D50 you can only control one thing at a time (aperature, shutter speed etc...) but with the D70 you can control both.... Doesn't it defeat the purpose of a manual camera if you can only control shutter speed and not aperature in a single shot? Or is he just bullshitting to get me to buy it?

I have no idea WTF he's talking about, I can control mine in M mode just fine. I think what he's got confused is that there's only one command wheel on the D50, which means you turn it to adjust shutter speed, and hold down a button + turn it to adjust aperture. :dunno:

AFAIK, there has been no replacement announced for the Rebel XT, the only change I can forsee is maybe a slightly upgraded XT bearing some features from the 30D like the bigger LCD and maybe spot metering.

I agree taht you should get a decent camera to start with, there's really no extra skills that you would need to operate a D50 over your average P&S - you just have the option of stepping into manual mode and taking direct control of your photos.

GreyFox
05-30-2006, 09:13 PM
Yeah thanks, I'm 99% sure now that's what he was talking about. I can't really see that being a huge hassle though.

With the Canon ones, they have features where you manually set the aperature and then it automatically sets the shutter speed right? Seems like the one thing that Canon has over Nikon haha.

Is this spot metering where it displays like the amount of light on a meter when you look through the viewfinder? That way you know how much light you're letting in before you even take the shot? If so, which cameras have this feature? I know the 30D does, but what about the other 3? (Rebel XT and the Nikon D50 and 70s)

Are you guys at all familiar with the kit lens' on these cameras? Best Buy guy said that the lens on the D70s is WAY better then the kit lens on any of the other ones....

BerserkerCatSplat
05-30-2006, 09:22 PM
Originally posted by GreyFox
Yeah thanks, I'm 99% sure now that's what he was talking about. I can't really see that being a huge hassle though.


It's not a hassle at all, I've never missed a shot because of it yet.



With the Canon ones, they have features where you manually set the aperature and then it automatically sets the shutter speed right? Seems like the one thing that Canon has over Nikon haha.


No, that's called "Apterture Priority" where you set the aperture and the camera auto-sets the shutter speed, and "Shutter Priority" where you set the shutter and the camera sets the aperture. All reasonably decent cameras have these modes - my old $250 Toshiba even had them. Yes, the D50 has them as well! :D



Is this spot metering where it displays like the amount of light on a meter when you look through the viewfinder? That way you know how much light you're letting in before you even take the shot? If so, which cameras have this feature? I know the 30D does, but what about the other 3? (Rebel XT and the Nikon D50 and 70s)


"Spot metering" is where the camera bases the exposure meter (little graph that tells you how over/under exposed you are) on a specific point, rather than the entire image, which is called "matrix metering." All DSLR's have a meter, but the Rebel XT and 20D lack the "spot" metering ability. It's useful in certain situations, but I wouldn't put it as a high priority for you, from the sounds of it.



Are you guys at all familiar with the kit lens' on these cameras? Best Buy guy said that the lens on the D70s is WAY better then the kit lens on any of the other ones....

He's right about that! The 18-70 that comes with the D70s is much better than the 18-55 that comes with the D50, which is better than the 18-55 that comes with the Rebel XT. I'm actually considering ditching my 18-55 for an 18-70, as it's a fantastic lens.

Pihsiak
05-30-2006, 11:35 PM
let's look to the future, since no one has talked a bit of lens, I'll throw in what I know.

If you buy a lens that has auto focus, then it needs a motor to turn the lens.

Most of Nikons lens don't have a motor, when you take off the lens, you will see a little gear sticking out of Nikon's lens mount area. On the lens there is a receiving end where the gear goes in to turn the lens. This causes alot of "buzzing" sound and is very loud and slow. The lens that do have an autofocus motor is Nikon's S-series lens. The lens in the D50 and D70s kits have motors in them.

All of Canon's lens will have the autofocus motor making them more expensive. Canon also has the USM (ultrasonic) series which have faster and more quiet motors.

Canon also has alot more choices in lens with Image Stabilization (IS) over Nikon's Vibration Reduction lens (VR). And the prices are considerabilly better.

In the end if you want to make your decision from what kind of lens you are going to buy in the future, ask yourself these questions.

1) Are you going to buy extra lens?
- As someone said, the lens in the Nikon kits are way better then what you find in the Canon XT kit. The Nikon kit lens are aimed for shooting portraits and landscape and if that is all you plan to do, then that is all you need.

2) If you are willing to buy another lens, do you value the faster focusing feature that Canon has? And would you take things like telephoto shots that would be better with the anti-shake function?
- if you said yes, then Canon is the way to go.


alot more I can say, but I'll let ppl post to see if I am right or wrong.

TurboMedic
05-31-2006, 08:44 AM
We'll always have Nikon vs Canon discussions, I truly think each is a good camera, and people get used to what they use. The focus motor in the D50 is slower than a D100/200/etc, thats a given, I would imagine the same as a Canon 1Ds is faster than a 350D....thats a given too. Each manufacturer has good glass, and you will pay out the ass for that stuff. Each manufacturer has entry/mid/pro cameras, all dependant on what you want to spend. Your best bet is to head to a REAL CAMERA STORE and test shoot with a few.....I held and shot about 5 cameras before I decided on mine, and it was a combination of me having Nikon lenses already, and the larger size of my camera (I have big hands, the XT was too small!). You'll have a learning curve, there is no doubt about that, the number of features that are different between most entry DSLR's and mids are minimal, so whatever your budget allows for, buy. You'll have to learn how to use it anyhow....And again, bodies are replaceable, lenses are your investment.

And again, I stress, DO NOT GO TO BEST BUY TO LEARN ABOUT CAMERAS!!! I can't believe a salesman would say you cannot control shutter and aperature and the same time on an SLR..... Go to The Camera Store on 11th, those guys are fantastic, knowledgable, they'll let you handle anything in the store, take it outside, mount lenses, whatever.....best service I've had from a store.....Avoid Vistek, they're pricks, and Saneal is ok, but pricier by 10-15%

Pihsiak
06-01-2006, 01:30 AM
Originally posted by TurboMedic


And again, I stress, DO NOT GO TO BEST BUY TO LEARN ABOUT CAMERAS!!! I can't believe a salesman would say you cannot control shutter and aperature and the same time on an SLR.....


lol, I'd like to know which best buys told him that. Hopefully not the NE one, I know the guys in that department. The only 2 ppl who know what they are talking about over there is and old white guy and a tubby asian kid. The asian kid has a XT so no way he told him that.

Funniest thing i heard from a customer is that some guy at Visions said that Canon cameras had plastic lens and Panasonic had glass, they were pretty hell bent on that statement. Must of had alot of left over panasonics or the commision from them was good.

GreyFox
06-10-2006, 02:27 PM
Well just to let you guys know, I went to the Camera Store and bought a D70s. Had it for almost a week now and I love it. The kit lens is pretty amazing and I'm starting to get the hang of using an SLR camera haha.

I'll be posting some pictures that I've taken so far by the time the weekend is over.

Thank for the help all!

TurboMedic
06-10-2006, 05:06 PM
Great buy!!!

blinkme_210
06-10-2006, 05:39 PM
Wow, the photos in on this page (http://www.pbase.com/ericdeparis/vauxlevicomte) look surreal! Is there a lot of post processing going on in this guy's gallery?

I want to buy a DSLR so I can take photos like this, but I'm scared of the steep (to me) learning curve. Anybody know of a site for newbies like me to learn how to use DSLR's?

BerserkerCatSplat
06-11-2006, 12:07 AM
Awesome buy, I wish I had an 18-70...

Ekliptix
06-11-2006, 12:27 AM
Originally posted by blinkme_210
Wow, the photos in on this page (http://www.pbase.com/ericdeparis/vauxlevicomte) look surreal! Is there a lot of post processing going on in this guy's gallery?

I want to buy a DSLR so I can take photos like this, but I'm scared of the steep (to me) learning curve. Anybody know of a site for newbies like me to learn how to use DSLR's?
They're processed. See the halo around the building here? That's an effect of using Photoshop's Shadow/Highlight recovery tool with too small of a radius setting. Most of his stuff is quite nice though.

http://mishilo.image.pbase.com/g4/37/556037/2/59983941.P5086417_hdr_small.jpg

turboMiata
06-11-2006, 12:02 PM
Originally posted by Ekliptix

They're processed. See the halo around the building here? That's an effect of using Photoshop's Shadow/Highlight recovery tool with too small of a radius setting. Most of his stuff is quite nice though.

http://mishilo.image.pbase.com/g4/37/556037/2/59983941.P5086417_hdr_small.jpg


looks like HDRI to me.....

Ekliptix
06-11-2006, 07:39 PM
I personally don't think that'd accound for the halo.