FOR SALE: Apple G3 PowerMac @ 300MHz

[Fluidic]

Apple G3 PowerMac running at 300MHz
Hansol 701P 17” Monitor
320MB 100MHz SDRAM
24x CD-ROM
6GB Hard Drive
Apple OS-X 10.2.4 (next gen. Apple operating system)
Iomega 1GB Cartridge JAZ Drive (internal)
Keyboard/Mouse

Selling for $600 CDN OBO (OR BEST OFFER)

Looking at upgrading from the Apple world. Comes in Apple G4 box with all instructions and software from factory. I do own this computer. If you would like to see it, please e-mail me at: [email protected]

Thanks,

Peter Skingle

[Fluidic]

Bump

Still for sale

:)

[van]

Ahh... I would love to buy that but I want a G4 instead! Damn.

[Fluidic]

G4 Apple's are very nice -- and there L3 cache at 1MB -- yummy!!! :) :)

[dogstar]

stupid question, but do apples operate on a different system than PCs?

i always see 300-800 mhz apples selling for huge amounts, usually equivalent prices to PCs which are 3x the speed.

[Fluidic]

Apples run faster (in theory) due to the way the CPU handles information. I'm not sure on the specifics... maybe Rage or someone else can help explain.

Thanks,

Peter

[Ben]

Well, its somewhat Simple when you think about it.


They buy fewer components than bigger companies (because the sell fewer units) so components costs them more.

They don't use as many standard parts which means costs are higher. Also the parts they do use tend to be of a high quality

They pioneer the use of newer technologies before most of their rivals so the hardware costs more (flat panel displays, super drives)

They spend a lot developing useful free software so have to make that back on hardware

Unlike most PC manufactures business models (which are high volume, low unit cost), Apple is more of a premium hardware company with lower volumes and higher costs.

A buddy of mine I work with is an avid MAC user, we've talked for hours about them and screwed around with them at work, I've definatly learned alot over the past month.

When you talk about overall speed, there is really no way to say whether one architecture is better than another because it's very application specific. Because of that, people base their metrics on numbers of arithmetic operations a processor can perform per second on average on a specific type of application. You can break this into two things:

Total Speed = [number of operations per clock cycle] x clock speed

The clock speed is what people talk about in MHZ! In that sense, the PC has better clock speed. In terms of number of operations per clock cycle, the PC used to do a lot worse than MACs, but it's not true anymore because starting with the pentium, makers of PC processors (AMD and Intel, in particular) incorporated so called superscalar pipelined architecture into their processors.

On the really old PCs, it normally takes several cycles to complete an operation, so the [number of operations per clock cycle] is less than one for those old PCs (older than pentium).

For newer PCs (pentium and above), pipelining breaks the execution into stages creating a pipeline. This allows one instruction to start executing while the other one is executing. This process brings the [number of operations per clock cycle] up to very close to one for most applications. Superscalar architecture is basically replicating the pipeline so multiple instructions can be executed simultaneously (if there is no dependency). This means that the [number of operations per clock cycle] gets increased by a factor close to the number of pipelines in the processor; again, this is application specific.

For the most part, the newer decent PCs have better or equal [number of operations per clock cycle] than MACs (again, there are a lot of PCs -- there are those embedded processors that you can get that are crappy but drain less power yada yada). So why do people think MACs are faster even though they are slower in clock speed? Application! MACs have instructions that do specific things. They are more CISC (complex instruction set computer) than PCs, but that's in a way not even true anymore. Things like MMX, 3dNow, etc... are making specific applications MUCH MUCH faster on the PC. Maybe not quite to that of a MAC in some cases, but its closing the gap substantially.

The overall speed of your computer depends also on the bus speed, bus size, hard disk cache size, hard disk seek time, number of items you have attached to your bus, motherboard chipset (this includes north bridge, south bridge, blah blah), video card, memory speed, cach speed, memory size, cache size.... and so on.

in response to "mac os is a bad operating system":
this is your opinion... a bad one though. mac os x is great operating system. it is unix based and has open desktop. unix system are stable and rarely crash (unlike windows). os x is pretty damn quick, but the lay out is one set to taste, you love it or you hate it. I like the basick look of my Win2k computer, OS 10 reminds me of a cross between AOL and WINXP.

Before I go any further, let's refine our definition of Windows to the newer product line of windows (Win NT and 2k and XP).

Let's confine ourselves to talking about architectural superiority.

Since that thread a while back with ZorroAMG I have been reading up alot on MACS, and to some extent I am impressed.

There are two generations of MAC OS. The older version definitely suck because there is no preemptive multi-tasking. THis means that you can't run two programs at once. If you try to run one program with one in the background, the one in the background has to be suspended -- this is generally called coorporative multi-tasking and is obsolete since...my VW was still working :P. Apple got smart and adopted the MACH kernel which implements the newer kernel architecture called microkernel (because the kernel is tiny and system jobs are divided into system processes) -- this is as opposed to monolithic kernel. Windows NT, 2k, and XP are all microkernel based. The MACH kernel (and the HURD OS) are projects that have been dragging for a long time without going anywhere -- that's probably the reason why you probably has not heard anything about it. The problem with adopting the MACH kernel is that it's completely different from old MAC software. This means that Apple has to patch up the kernel to make it compatible with at least some of their software. In the process of doing this, they fuckeded up the kernel. They added many many layers of multithreading and process management in able to support both preemptive and coorporative processing. Because of this fancy addition, their kernel naturally slows down (when you make your computer do lots of shit like encoding a pr0n move, opening a Graphic design prog and working an FTP client, it slows down). On top of that, Apple likes its graphics engine... that's what it was known for, so they hacked that on top, too. This is why if you are used to windows and try to use a MAC running MAC OS, you get the sluggish feeling.... I realize it's subjective, but most people who use both platforms interchangeably would probably agree with me.

Sorry I have to give you half a history lesson on development of MAC OS... and a little bit on OS architecture.

only 1 button mice:
yes, apple only sells 1 button mice... other companies build mice too. os x supports 2 button mice it is just that apple doesn't encourage it; they believe that 1 button mice are simpler (that is apple's flaw).

Ok, this is subjective. I don't like the one button mice....Was playing Escape from Castle Wolfenstein at work today, it sucks ass!

not many apps for mac:
the mac has many apps that are equal are better than the pc (well aside from games... only gamers struggle with macs).
They are just not as common, and because not many use macs, its hard to justify using Mac software cause 9 out of 10 people wont know whats up, lol

Again, this is arguable. It depends on what you use your computer for.

So the moral of the story is? Mac or PC? Depends on what you want to do with your computer. If you're an ordinary person [in whatever sense you want it to mean], Mac or PC? Depends on your taste.

[Fluidic]

Wow -- thanks Ben... I think! lol

Peter

[+AsiaN+]

yeah i have a mac... GAMES ARE SHIT ON THESE COMPUTERS!! but other than that i think they're GREAT :thumbsup:

[Fluidic]

Still for sale! :D

[Fluidic]

Bump -- one more time! :D

PM me with offers. No low balls.

Peter

[Fluidic]

Not my pictures -- but this is what it looks like.

Will go as low as 700 CDN!

EDIT: instead of the floppy drive displayed in the tower pictured, it's an Iomega JAZ drive instead.

[Fluidic]

Hansol 701P 17" Monitor

[Fluidic]

Here are some pics I took today.

http://www.fluidicdigital.com/www/misc%20images/computer4sale/apple-tower.jpg

http://www.fluidicdigital.com/www/misc%20images/computer4sale/guts-of-apple.jpg

http://www.fluidicdigital.com/www/misc%20images/computer4sale/hansol-monitor.jpg

http://www.fluidicdigital.com/www/misc%20images/computer4sale/hansol-controls.jpg

PM or e-mail me.

Peter

[Fluidic]

Selling for $700 now -- no longer $800.

Peter

[Fluidic]

Ok, whoever wants this computer, e-mail me -- I'm up for reasonable offers.

[email protected]

[cipher]

does mac really suck that badly?

[Fluidic]

What? They are fine -- I'm just upgrading. What kind of question is that? lol

Peter

[Superesc]

Originally posted by cipher
does mac really suck that badly?

No they do not.

[Fluidic]

Bump for a good computer. Must get rid of machine or will toss in the garbage chute.

$700 OR BEST OFFER (THIS INCLUDES 17" MONITOR)

Apple G3 PowerMac running at 300MHz
Hansol 701P 17” Monitor
320MB 100MHz SDRAM
24x CD-ROM
6GB Hard Drive
Apple OS-X 10.2.4 (next gen. Apple operating system)
Iomega 1GB Cartridge JAZ Drive (internal)
Keyboard/Mouse

Getting rid of it this Friday -- take it or leave it.

[email protected]

Peter

[tulit]

Peter, just curious. What sort of speed of PC would this be equivalent to?

[D'z Nutz]

Can't you part it out? What are you going to do with it if you can't sell it? Are there *any* PC parts that can be interchanged with Mac parts (ie: harddrive, monitor, ram, cdrom)?

I'd make an offer, but it'd be so ridiculously low, you'd vomit in disgust! Hahaha!!

[Fluidic]

I could part it out -- but I seriously don't want to do that. This computer runs and works just fine -- I'm just thinking of upgrading to a G4 PowerBook (and those cost mucho bling-bling).

You are able to interchange PC parts -- monitors, CD-ROM drives, PCI-video cards, RAM (PC100 SDRAM), and hard drives.

Around the same speed as a Pentium III @ 612MHz. This is a rough estimate -- but we are comparing Apple's and Oranges here. Completly different CPU mapping, etc.

Peter

[Fluidic]

Originally posted by D'z Nutz
I'd make an offer, but it'd be so ridiculously low, you'd vomit in disgust! Hahaha!!

If it's 650 and up -- I won't -- I would simply drop it off at your home or office. lol

Peter

[tulit]

[quota]Apple's and Oranges here[/quote]

Literally? ;)


I think my sis may be looking for a comp. Ill talk to her and see...

[Fluidic]

Excellent -- thanks a lot. If you get back to me before Friday -- and you purchase before the end of this weekend -- I would be super thankful!!

Peter

[tulit]

I just emailed you.

[Fluidic]

Right back at you! :)

Peter

[Fluidic]

Still for sale. Today is the day I either sell it, or throw it out. Someone buy this before I pitch it.

MAKE ME AN OFFER!!!!! NO LOW BLOWS! PM OR E-MAIL ME

Thanks!

Peter

[Fluidic]

Ok, I didn't have the heart to throw it out. Someone buy this or I will just try eBay.

Please, Please, Please!!!

Peter

[BigYellowMonkey]

Guys, come on! These computers are great.
The best part is, they are so upgradeable. I have a G3/233, in a beige case. If you've ever seen the old Power Macs in the beige desktop cases, that's mine. Except almost nothing stock is left inside.
You can buy a 32MB ATI Radeon 7000 for this computer, which gives it a huge performance boost, especially if you are running OS X (like me).
You can also buy processor upgrades. I bought a 500 MHz G4 processor for mine, and it works awesome. Now you can get 1 GHz G4 upgrades for it as well, to make its processor comparable to the newest macs.
It also uses standard ATA (IDE/EIDE) storage for the hard drive, so almost any PC hard drive will work in there.

If mine wasn't already upgraded to be faster than this, I would pick it up. Not to mention that the monitor is included. And a half-decent 17" monitor is gonna cost you upwards of $150.

-Biggie!

[Fluidic]

Thanks for the kind words "Biggie" -- I had no idea you were able to upgrade these things as much as you say. Can you post some links to a places of where I can buy G3/G4 cpu upgrades and what not? Thanks!

Peter

[BigYellowMonkey]

Sure man.
Sonnet Technologies is the best source for processors.
These G3's (both the beige desktops and towers and the blue&white towers) use a ZIF socket processor. ZIF stands for Zero Insertion Force, so basically the old processor is lifted out and the new one is just placed in, without any force at all.
Unfortunately, the 1 GHz G4 is only available for the beige G3's for now, but support for the blue&white G3's is "coming soon". There are some issues with the firmware.
You can find the Sonnet stuff here... http://www.sonnettech.com/product/encore.html. If you ask nicely, you should be able to get the 500 MHz one for about $500 CDN. The 1 GHz one is going to be $900-1000 CDN. I believe it will be $600 US when it is released.
Another thing to look into is the graphics card. You can get an ATI Radeon 7000 PCI, which is the fastest PCI graphics card available, for around or under $200. And does it ever make a difference, especialy with OS X. Be careful though. There is the Radeon Mac Edition, the Radeon 7000, and the Radeon 7000 Mac Edition. The Radeon Mac Edition does not support OS X, and is a much slower card. Not to mention that it is difficult to find. The Radeon 7000 is for PC's only. If you see a 64 MB Radeon PCI, then it is the wrong one. The mac version comes in only 32 MB, and will say mac edition on the box. It's also about twice the price of the PC one.
Another thing you might want to look into is a new hard drive and a PCI ATA controller. You can buy an ATA/100 card, or even ATA/133 for when it becomes more widely used, for like $100, and it just plugs into your PCI slot, no software necessary. Sonnet makes those, too. As for an HD, look into a Western Digital Caviar Special Edition. I'm picking up a 40 GB one tommorow, for $130. The nice thing about the special edition is that it has an 8MB cache, as opposed to the 2MB cache on almost all other drives. Which makes a huge difference performance-wise. They make the special edition in sizes up to 200GB, so if you need the space you can get em.

That's basically what I've done to mine. Well, that and put more RAM in. And it can run almost anything now. There are only a handful of games that aren't playable, and stuff like Photoshop and Illustrator run great.
I would upgrade it. Wait until Apple switches over to the new processors before buying a whole new computer, because you'll be kicking yourself if you don't.

-Biggie!

[Fluidic]

Still selling -- someone offer me a reasonable offer.

Would like to sell by this week.

Thanks!

Peter

[Fluidic]

Updated the price. Someone please purchase this from me.

Peter

[Ben]

I'm tempted to sticky this bitch so it sells at last. LOL

Its a good system, SOMEONE buy it.

[Fluidic]

Yah Benny -- I would appreciate that!! :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

Peter

[Fluidic]

Hey Benny man -- any word if on whether or not you're gonna sticky this lil` mofo? lol

Peter

[Ben]

Dunno if it would help man, it hasn't sold yet, will it sell at all?

[Fluidic]

Sure it will good buddy!! :thumbsup: :)

Peter

[Fluidic]

548 views and no bites -- this bump's for you! ;) lol

Peter

[Fluidic]

Price Change -- SEE FIRST POST.

[cipher]

man, best of luck selling it

[Fluidic]

Thanks man! :thumbsup:

Peter

[szw]

man, delete your posts. your desparation is throwing people off ;)

[Fluidic]

This bitch is finally SOLD!!!

lol

[Ben]

Holy christ its about time!!!!!!!!!!!!

[BigYellowMonkey]

Who bought it? And for how much?

-Biggie!