Tracking original engine serial #?

[dogmelissa]

If anyone read my post earlier about my search for information on whether or not my engine is rebuilt, this will make more sense.
I was told by a dealership that I should call the original dealership for my car and have them tell me the serial number on the engine on the original sale (lucky for me this was a local call!). Called that dealership and they told me that the factory tracks that, not them. Called the Honda Canada Customer Service Centre, and was told that the factory doesn't track serial numbers on engines. WTF?

Does anyone have any idea how I could find out if the engine that's in my car was the one it was "born" with?? I really don't believe that no one has a record that says VIN# xxx has engine# yyy in it at the time of build. What's the point of putting a serial number on an engine if it doesn't belong to a VIN?
Help?!

Melissa

[freakin]

If Honda Canada can't help you then you might be hooped, but try posting on Honda-Tech.com. You'd have better luck on there, but I think it's a long shot.

Besides, you might still have your original motor, but it could have been rebuilt.

Why all the effort to find out if it's been worked on? If it runs well and has good compression, then why worry about it?

[dogmelissa]

Partly because it's not running well and I'm trying to figure out why. The expected issues differ depending on the number of km on the engine. My odometer said 268000 when I got the car and I was told the engine only had 125k. Now my odometer says 309k, so if I believe the guy who sold it to me, the engine should have around 160k on it. My mechanic (who used to work in the specialty department at T&T Honda until he decided to open his own shop) told me that the difference between what is likely wrong with an engine at 300k km and one that only has 160k km on it is substantial.

And of course, the car purrs like a kitten when he's around, so it's been a bit of a tough time trying to guess with my limited knowledge what might be wrong. He's fixed a few obvious problems (coolant hose leaks) but it's still not running as well as I'd like but I can't replicate the problems for him.

The other reason is that I just don't understand why major mechanical work isn't tracked the same way body work is. Sure, the body is important, but the engine is just as important! I think I'd rather buy a car that had the rear end rebuilt due to a crash--which is reported--than a car that has a engine with problems that could kill me--things that could occur due to neglect, bad driving habits, crashes or by installing things that don't belong. Like if I put my Civic Engine in the body of a Ford Truck (I know that this isn't possible)... there'd be no record of that and if the person didn't look or assumed it was ok and drove the truck loaded up a hill and blew one of the pistons through the hood, that'd be a pretty big deal. It's turned into a curiousity factor at this point.

I did post at Honda-Tech.com and was basically treated like I'd just crawled out from under the dirtiest slimiest rock in existence by a few of them there. They said that I have a common car, so why would I care about the engine at all?

I've almost come to the conclusion that the engine *isn't* rebuilt, because a previous owner was kind enough to take it to a dealership for servicing and their records end less than 10k before the guy I bought it from said he got it at, and they didn't do a rebuild or install a new engine, nor was the state of it anything to indicate that the engine would need to be rebuilt at that time.
Thanks for your help anyhow...
Melissa

[Weapon_R]

The engine should have a VIN # stamped on the block somewhere that would be the same as the VIN # on the dash if it were an original engine.

If its been replaced, the VIN # will be different than your car's dash.

[freakin]

Honda's just have a spot on the front of the motor with it's model and a serial no. It differs from the VIN. For example, here's one of my B16's:
http://members.shaw.ca/matteakin/EF/B16/BlockStamp.JPG


HT can be a great source of information, and it's also home to some of the biggest douche-bags on the internet.....oh well, it was worth a shot.

I guess it's safe to call BS on the new motor if you don't have reciepts for it. What kind of problems are you having with the motor? I might be easier to just replace it with something low KM. The good news is that you can get a SOHC ZC motor for that car for pretty cheap....assuming you're driving a 91 Civic as stated in your profile.

[dogmelissa]

I found the original VIN stamped on the engine cavity, but I couldn't find it, or anything resembling it, on the engine itself. If you just took that picture, can you take another one that's zoomed out more so I can tell where that is on the engine? I did find some numbers there, under direction from someone from Honda-Tech (see this thread: http://www.honda-tech.com/zerothread/1647743) but I didn't know what to make of them. If they are a VIN, then they definetly don't match the one on my dash, which includes 3HGED in it (the rest I can't remember at the moment). The other forum was talking about a "D16A6" engine... huh?

I don't think I'm willing to change out the engine right now, but knowing that the engine has the 309000 km on it that my odometer shows will help. I've been having a lot of problems with starting the car, mosty. I had to stay home one day this week cause there was nothing I could do to get it to run. It just kept turning and turning and turning and not catching. Next day, when I'd decided to get it towed to the mechanics, it started on the first try and I couldn't get it *not* start, nor could the mechanic when I took it there. Not really sure what to do about that, but I'm going to look into changing some parts--starter, ignition coil, distributor--even if they seem to be functioning now.
And mine is a 1990, not a 91. Not sure if that makes a difference in the ease of any repairs. My mechanic says that in 92 when they changed the body they must have changed something in the engine because from 92 on, there were a lot less problems than with the 89-91's.

Otherwise, I've had an ongoing problem with it in idle since I got it, where when it's warm when I'm stopped at a light (or in traffic at a dead stop for more than about 5 seconds), the idle drops so low that the whole car starts rumbling and often the battery light flickers like it's stalling out. If I give it a little gas, the idle speed comes up, but obviously that means taking my foot off the brake, which is a bad idea in hilly areas of the city or when I'm nervous about whether or not the guy behind me is going to stop! I have *no* idea what could be causing this; a new timing belt was installed after I'd put on about 1000 km and made no difference and everything else seems to be functioning fine. :dunno:

Thanks for the help so far--much nicer here than at the Honda site!
Any further info is still appreciated!
Melissa

[frozenrice]

I'm wondering if it's your main fuel relay. That particular generation of Honda/Acuras seemed to do that often and your sypmton of starting/not starting is one hint that that's what it might be. The only other thing I can think of is that it might be your ignitor going on you. I think the part is well under $100 and should just be a matter of locating it and swapping them out like a fuse.

[dogmelissa]

According to the guys in the other forum (see my earlier post for link), because the engine code doesn't match what should be there, it's looking like the engine has definetly been changed on this car. As for finding out the mileage on the engine that was put in, or when that was done: :banghead: big fat brick wall. I'm wondering if it has something to do with the service records having been deleted prior to 1996 at the dealership I called...? She said there's a record, but it shows "deleted" which she thought was very strange but could do nothing about.

So I guess that answers that question... sort of.
Thanks for the assistance, and now on to diagnosing the problems on my non-original engine. :drama:

Melissa

[dogmelissa]

Originally posted by frozenrice
I'm wondering if it's your main fuel relay. That particular generation of Honda/Acuras seemed to do that often. I think the part is well under $100 and should just be a matter of locating it and swapping them out like a fuse.

I will have my mechanic have a look at that--thanks!! Are there any other symptoms of a failure in the relay? It doesn't drop or rev strangely at any other time, and apparently the fuel pump was changed to test it with no luck, so the one that was there was put back.

[frozenrice]

Wow you were quick to reply. I actually edited my post and you replied before I finished.
Typically what seems to happen with the relay is there is a solder contact that breaks/comes loose inside the relay. Various conditions such as weather or vibrations often can affect whether or not the relay is making good contact. This in turn affects the operation of the fuel pump - no electrical, no worky. The other sympton besides the car randomly starting/not starting is your car could just suddenly die while driving. Vibrations from driving around could simply loosen the wire enough to completely cut off power to the fuel pump.
When you were having troubles with your car starting was it during that week when it was really hot?

[dogmelissa]

(My quick reply must have just been good timing)

Nope, it was just this past week. Drove home from work on Friday May 26, everything was normal, didn't drive it again until Tuesday (we use my bf's car on the weekend and I was sick on Monday) and then it refused to start on Tuesday. It did rain on Saturday and a little on Sunday, so I've had suggestions that maybe there was some humidity on the distributor that has since dried. I was to guess, I'd say it might have had something to do with the hose that was leaking, and possibly sprayed onto the starter or area of the starter (not sure where that is on this car), and that's why it was cranky. The hose has been changed and it's been fine since in terms of starting.

The problems I've had on idle have been going on for about a year and a half (since I've had the car), so I think it it was a failing relay, it would have full-out failed by now. If it was loose connections, I would probably have seen other symptoms by now, especially since I've taken this car through every possible driving condition; extreme heat (Calgary-style anyhow) to extreme cold, snow, rain, dust storms.... just about everything that Calgary has to offer.

I will have my mechanic look at the possibility of replacing the relay, though.
Thanks!
Melissa