Careers in tax

[Zenshi]

To make a long story short:

I've graduated from SAIT and working an entry level accounts payable job right now. Accounting is very logical to me, and so is tax.

However, its been a month in this accounting position and Im not liking it very much. It seems like Im enjoying tax more, I always find myself referring to tax and taking a crack at my 2005-2006 tax text book / ITA (Income Tax Act).

Now, before all you tell me to go search up on google (which I already did). What careers do you think I could get in the tax field? Specifics would be nice! :)

[jay42w8]

im a tax auditor here in calgary, theyre still hiring in edmonton i believe...apply thru the cra website...here in calgary at least, after a couple years..u will start to get calls from corporate headhunters calling ur desk..its pretty sweet....or u can just do ur CA and work for peanuts for 3 years and have no life...either way..ill meet u at the top of the tax professionals ladder haha

[CubicleGeek]

Originally posted by jay42w8
or u can just do ur CA and work for peanuts for 3 years and have no life...

Fair tradeoff, considering every CA I know well enough to divulge their salaries to me has been able to land a 120K+ job immediately upon getting their designation. On the other side of the coin, I also know a number of people that gave up or exceeded their 3 time allowance at attempting the exam.

[Zenshi]

Yeah sounds like fun...
I passed all the qualifications for the CRA hiring, supposedly they will do hiring for from the "pool" i was in, during sept...

I passed the "analysis" and english test in May, hope they call in sept/aug! :)

Is there anything else you can do?

Anyone else a tax planner or tax laywer?

Internal/External auditor?

[xtrader101]

Zenshi,

Did you finished the Applied Degree or the Diploma in Accounting? Is the applied degree is SAIT qualifies for the degree requirement in taking the CA route?

All the best.

[Zenshi]

I finished Diploma and going to finish my Applied degree at night during the upcoming semsters.

Sadly, the applied degree at sait is not recongized by the CA but the CGA and CMA both recognize it :)

[jay42w8]

Originally posted by CubicleGeek


Fair tradeoff, considering every CA I know well enough to divulge their salaries to me has been able to land a 120K+ job immediately upon getting their designation. On the other side of the coin, I also know a number of people that gave up or exceeded their 3 time allowance at attempting the exam.

thats gotta be bullshit...upon grad...even in the hot calgary market i find that extremely unlikely...back in vancouver..it was only 50ish to start with the big 4 firms

[jay42w8]

ps...my work hours at CRA are strictly 37.5 hours...but there is a catch...the highest level auditors only make a little over 100k...but if u factor in the great pension (i can retire at 55)...and the lack of stress or overtime it could be worth it

[Zenshi]

My cousin is a CA and he makes about 80-85ish when he started.
So... 120K starting is pretty "high" starting rate imo. :)

You have to remember, is that 120K salary or 120K with benefits included?

My cousin makes 80-85K Salary, but his benefits and bonuses... would probably bump him into the 100K range, easily.

[in*10*se]

you do not need a CA's to work in the tax department at a CA firm, there have been many CFA's, BComms, B.Admin, that are managers in the tax department.

It is not a requirement for tax to have CA's, but for managers in audit, you need a CA equivalent.

Come september, start applying for work in January for the tax busy season in the tax department in the CA firms.

cheers.

[Zenshi]

I dont think anyone said CA is needed to work in tax department of a CA firm. Though CA designation is probably a pretty good start if you want to work and do public aduitting.

Anyways, back on topic! Any other jobs you can get out there in the tax field?

[CubicleGeek]

Originally posted by jay42w8


thats gotta be bullshit...upon grad...even in the hot calgary market i find that extremely unlikely...back in vancouver..it was only 50ish to start with the big 4 firms

No one said anything about being a new grad. You can't get a CA without first graduating and articling for at least 3 years. Then you have to pass the exam, which is considered the most difficult professional exam bar none. Most organizations will give you 6 months paid leave just to study for this test and the fail rate is extremely high.

[CubicleGeek]

Originally posted by Zenshi
My cousin is a CA and he makes about 80-85ish when he started.
So... 120K starting is pretty "high" starting rate imo. :)

You have to remember, is that 120K salary or 120K with benefits included?

My cousin makes 80-85K Salary, but his benefits and bonuses... would probably bump him into the 100K range, easily.

In one case, 130K base salary, not including benefits/bonuses/stock options. Did his time with E&Y, passed the exam first try and landed the position with an Oil & Gas firm. The 500K home he bought shortly after speaks for itself. ;)

Heck, my sister is a CMA w/ 6 years experience and was recently offered 100K from her company. Gotta love the boom.

Anyways, sorry to derail your thread once again, let's get back on topic.

[in*10*se]

Originally posted by jay42w8


thats gotta be bullshit...upon grad...even in the hot calgary market i find that extremely unlikely...back in vancouver..it was only 50ish to start with the big 4 firms

last year, i know for a fact NEW GRADS working in the big 4 ca firms made 35k to start.

this year its' 38k to start.

period.

being an articling student sucks.

http://forums.beyond.ca/showthread.php?s=&threadid=70971

and u article for 30 months and must have the following minimum hours worked.
work 100 tax hours
625 audit hours
625 assurance hours

[jay42w8]

hmmm...well im not sure about starting pays for CA's here in calgary cuz i just moved here from van last summer...i had no idea they were getting paid so much..damn.

is there any truth that CA firms here are so desperate for articling students that they'll take someone like me with mediocre grades? (73% ish in my university accounting courses)

[Zenshi]

jay i dont see why not?

with your CRA experience, it should be plenty for a CA firm to consider you! ;)

[jay42w8]

^ ya but its a tough choice....

1. work for peanuts for 3 years and have NO LIFE and then make marginally more money after taxes for the rest of my life and at times working 60 hour work weeks

or

2. nice cushy govt job...decent pay...37.5 hours for the rest of my life...decent pension and retire at 55...stress free life for the most part but never make much more than 100 k

[Zenshi]

=P

Hahah... true.

Anyways, Im still surprised no one has brought up any other tax jobs. ;\ or shared their experience...

No H&R block ppl out there/ (LOL)

[CubicleGeek]

Now that we're back on topic, you could try applying for CRA, working for a few years and moving onto one of the big 4. That is one way to avoid having to do the grunt work in those big firms.

I had a friend take a similar route. Worked 4 years for the government in their auditing department and applied for an intermediate auditing position in E&Y. Sure he left the cushy government job, but he is now back on the corporate track without having to claw his way up with the rest of the junior accountants.

The big firms have alot of interest in their auditing departments for people with government experience, since who else would know the tax system better than someone who works for the people that wrote the tax laws?

[jay42w8]

^ very good point...ya i have colleagues who get head hunters calling their desk...esp. in the GST dept cuz no one teaches GST in any of the accounting designation programs.......but for i still dunno if i want to be part of the corporate culture, when u factor in the insane amount of hours and stress working in industry or public practise...is it worth it???

[Zenshi]

=) Yeah CRA is probably a good bridge to a lot of businesses, since understanding the tax system is your job at the CRA.

Coporate offices want you because well, they dont want their audits to mess up. Ex-CRA would probably be very good at following rules or finding loop-holes. ;)

As for working in corporate, it sure beats working at a small company. Im doing account payable paper pusher, it sucks.... Benefits/Pay/Hours are all bad and any big firm would probably have killer benefits (Probably on par w/ the government). Like you said, probably more work involed, but the only reason a person would leave a company for another is if the pay is a lot better and the grass is really greener at he other side.

[bigboom]

go for the govt job...its almost impossible to get fried from those plus your benefits and pension :)

[Zenshi]

hahah yeah, the benefits and pensions are really good i heard! :)
Nothing like working for the big cheese of the country?

[jay42w8]

^ ya its a tradeoff...u give away ur potential for unlimited salary climbing the corporate ladder...just depends on what ur priorities are...i want a family soon and i want a stress free job that will let us live comfortably financially...as i get older...i find im not wanting to be insanely rich anymore

[Zenshi]

hahaha i never wanted to be insanely rich, though its nice to be.. .but not a desire for me. :)

[2000impreza]

Originally posted by Zenshi
=) Yeah CRA is probably a good bridge to a lot of businesses, since understanding the tax system is your job at the CRA.

Coporate offices want you because well, they dont want their audits to mess up. Ex-CRA would probably be very good at following rules or finding loop-holes. ;)

As for working in corporate, it sure beats working at a small company. Im doing account payable paper pusher, it sucks.... Benefits/Pay/Hours are all bad and any big firm would probably have killer benefits (Probably on par w/ the government). Like you said, probably more work involed, but the only reason a person would leave a company for another is if the pay is a lot better and the grass is really greener at he other side.

Its been barely a month since you started this position. What do you really expect? You haven't been there long enough to prove your abilities, not to mention you lack experience and knowledge to perform any real accounting duties. You need to give it some time to see where it takes you.

Working for the CRA is much different from the average industry accounting jobs. It really depends on your lifestyle.

[Zenshi]

I wont explain my situation, :) but I've talked to the people that worked at my place for 5 years, and their benefits still suck.

Even if I prove what I can do at my workplace, they wont give me a raise til one year later. (no one there has heard of otherwise.) And will probably be max of 10% :P. Its very old fashioned there....


Anyways, Im not here to argue about this. :) Just want to know what jobs are out there for a tax specialist.

[jay42w8]

^ i wanna know now too..i need more money! haha

how much pay is an entry level position on the tax team out in the corporate world?...i think itll take at least 60 g's to get me to leave here

[Zenshi]

Hmmm, maybe theres no one in the tax world that lives on beyond? ;x

[xtrader101]

Originally posted by jay42w8
^ i wanna know now too..i need more money! haha

how much pay is an entry level position on the tax team out in the corporate world?...i think itll take at least 60 g's to get me to leave here

Jay, how much is the starting pay in CRA for a person who don't have experience and who just graduated from a two year accounting diploma.

Thanks.

[jay42w8]

47 144

[jay42w8]

what the hell haha...no one knows??...i saw an ad on workolpolis...for "tax technician" at Delloite...entry level in tax department i guess cuz all u need is a diploma...no salary mentioned though

[Zenshi]

probably not as much as the CRA :P
Government likes to keep their employees happy, but not as well as the city...

City = GOOD pay

[crazyning]

Originally posted by jay42w8

is there any truth that CA firms here are so desperate for articling students that they'll take someone like me with mediocre grades? (73% ish in my university accounting courses)

You need a C+ in all the prerequisite courses. I'm considering it also...

[Lo)2enz0]

just wondering but did you graduate from sait with the 2 year accounting diploma (1st year of business admin, 2nd in accounting) or did you graduate with the 4 year degree course?

[jay42w8]

^ if ur talking about my position...u just need a 2 year diploma which i did and if u want to move up u need ur advanced accounting plus a degree, some girl just graduated from SAIT and is 20 and making 50 k...not too shabby

okay...so ive decided that ive had it with hearing people making tons more money than me in oil and gas....so any tips where i should start looking? i dont have connections so im just sending my cover letter and resumes to oil and gas companies and maybe send one to Rober Half

[jay42w8]

^ if ur talking about my position...u just need a 2 year diploma which i did and if u want to move up u need ur advanced accounting plus a degree, some girl just graduated from SAIT and is 20 and making 50 k...not too shabby

okay...so ive decided that ive had it with hearing people making tons more money than me in oil and gas....so any tips where i should start looking? i dont have connections so im just sending my cover letter and resumes to oil and gas companies and maybe send one to Rober Half, i figure an intermediate accounting position will get me at least 60-65k?

[whodiman]

Ok, since I've worked for CRA and KPMG I can give you my 2 cents.

If you want to get your CA or CMA it is now mandatory to have a degree before you enter the program. For CGA you can start without it but must have your degree before you finish it.

You can work for a firm without a designation but to get into tax, a designation is an absolute must. Not sure if you have ever done tax for corporations but it is probably the least fun thing to do. Most accountants dread it.

CRA... very good choice if you get this job. As long as you have an accountant degree you are good to go for any internal promotions. If you have a SAIT diploma, get your designation and you are good for any promotion including management. These are the rules set out by their union. My friend who works there has his CMA now and makes about 75 and hardly works.

All is true about a designation. If you have a designation and a little bit of experience in this city, the sky is the limit. My sister just got her CA in November and has hopped ship twice since then and is now making 6 figures. She's only 25. I don't have my designation (cause I hate accounting) but I still am an accountant by title and make over 50 in oil and gas.

[whodiman]

Originally posted by xtrader101


Jay, how much is the starting pay in CRA for a person who don't have experience and who just graduated from a two year accounting diploma.

Thanks.

When I worked there about 5 years ago the starting pay was about 43k.

[jay42w8]

^ hey whodiman...i am in the process of looking in oil and gas...im just wondering why u left if ur only making (im guessing) slightly over 50, with overtime factored in ur making less than CRA....are u working for a smaller company.?...im thinking i wont leave for less than 60 a year, but my problem is i am not designated yet (I have a few mores courses to complete + work experience for CGA)...so im just gonna apply at the bigger companies and see what they can offer me

[whodiman]

Originally posted by jay42w8
^ hey whodiman...i am in the process of looking in oil and gas...im just wondering why u left if ur only making (im guessing) slightly over 50, with overtime factored in ur making less than CRA....are u working for a smaller company.?...im thinking i wont leave for less than 60 a year, but my problem is i am not designated yet (I have a few mores courses to complete + work experience for CGA)...so im just gonna apply at the bigger companies and see what they can offer me

I quit 5 years ago to go travelling. I was living in Regina and couldn't find work when I got back so I worked at KPMG for a while. I moved to Vancouver and worked a few jobs but decided to give Calgary a try. If I was still with CRA now it'd be pretty hard to leave now. One of my friends who started the same time as me at CRA is now an AU1 here. I would be doing the same as him had I not quit. I don't think he'll quit cause he'd have to actually work if he did now.

The other factor are your opportunities. Once you get into a big oil company you have many opportunities. Most big oil companies have many departments like trading floors, Risk, gas sceduling,etc. If you wanted to get into O & G without O & G experience you probably won't make anymore than you already make now especially if you don't have a designation. I only was able to get in because I have good SAP and JDE experience. But once you are in, it's about the experience. We have gas schedulers that have no post secondary education but 10 years O & G so they are now making about 75-80. 3 other guys left our accounting department after less than 1 year to jump into forecasting, analysis and the other guy into credit risk. All of them have cracked the 60k mark without a designation. The main thing is getting that first 2 years of O & G experience. After that, you suddenly become much more valuable to the industry, especially if you are designated.

So what I am saying is even at a big company you won't make that much initially, but in the long run you will.

[jay42w8]

^ thanks, that helps a bit

yah, here in Calgary, and only here in Calgary can you jump to AU1 in as little as 18 months, but im just feeling a little frustrated always hearing about people making more money than me, I hear about new grads making 60k a year doing accounts payable and im like FUCK, what am i doing here? haha....so Im gonna try and apply and see what they say...Talisman has a Tax Analyst position on their website but they're asking for 5 years work experience...I've only done 0.5 years haha...so who knows...Im gonna do a bang up job on my cover letter...and also do a lot of reading in the CRA audit manual and procedures for oil and gas companies so I can impress the interviewers :thumbsup: