American Cars Beat out European Cars

[T78Supra1]

I was Reading Car and Driver and this is What i Found,

"Well, that's it then — the Americans are now officially "back" right? Not exactly. As with most news stories, you have to dig deeper than the headlines, or even the first few paragraphs to get the whole story. That same Consumer Reports survey also stated that while the domestics were just edging out the European brands (18 problems per 100 cars to Europe's 20 problems per 100), the Japanese and Korean cars still have a healthy lead at 12 problems per 100 vehicles. In pure mathematical terms, that means Asian vehicles are 50-percent more reliable than American vehicles. And by the way, the industry average is 17 problems per 100 vehicles, so the Americans as a group are still "below average" in terms of reliability."

Good news for us Japanese car owners we are still on Top........The Question is for how long?????????
I think Forever

[Mitsu3000gt]

The last time I posted a thread like this that I genuinely thought would simply be interesting to the general public it was deleted for an unknown reason just so you know it will likely happen here too. But I also read that in C+D, and resale value speaks for itself.

Mark

[Moe Man]

so what.............

[liquidboi69]

Most reviews rate reliability around the '12 month old' mark on cars. While American cars beat European cars 12 months in, who's to say they will still beat them say... 5 years in.

Plus JD power ratings have always been skewed...they were criticized on their marking criteria (because they had basicly none before.) They made a new criteria and guess what?

http://www.autoblog.com/2006/06/11/new-j-d-power-scoring-methodology-murkier-than-ever/

[bspot]

Originally posted by Mitsu3000gt
resale value speaks for itself.

Mark

This makes no sense. Pretty much every euro vehicle has better resale in North America, yet the survey is saying they have worse quality. Mini's have amazing resale, as do landrovers and they are two of the least reliable brands out there.

[bspot]

Originally posted by liquidboi69
Most reviews rate reliability around the '12 month old' mark on cars. While American cars beat European cars 12 months in, who's to say they will still beat them say... 5 years in.

Plus JD power ratings have always been skewed...they were criticized on their marking criteria (because they had basicly none before.) They made a new criteria and guess what?

http://www.autoblog.com/2006/06/11/new-j-d-power-scoring-methodology-murkier-than-ever/

Consumer reports != JD Power and Associates

[heavyD]

Originally posted by T78Supra1
Good news for us Japanese car owners we are still on Top........The Question is for how long?????????
I think Forever

My wife has a Japanese car. Should we high five and have a party to celebrate that her car has a slim chance to have less problems than mine?:rolleyes:

[liquidboi69]

Originally posted by bspot


Consumer reports != JD Power and Associates
Whoops I thought car and driver used JD. Disreguard what I said haha.

And thank god I took C++ or I woudln't know what != means lol.

But the 12 month review thing still stands. Most of the wear on the engine is after those 12 months. The only thing you could really judge in 12 months is the trim/electircal(?) wear...unless the engine really sucks lol. Most people are concerned about mechanical wear anyway.

[benyl]

Originally posted by T78Supra1
Good news for us Japanese car owners we are still on Top........The Question is for how long?????????
I think Forever

Wow, you don't have a very long memory. It was only a few years ago when japanese vehicles were "jap crap."

I predict in 20 years, Chinese cars will rule the roost. They will copy everything the japanese do and do it for cheaper.

[Accord_tunerx]

Originally posted by heavyD


My wife has a Japanese car. Should we high five and have a party to celebrate that her car has a slim chance to have less problems than mine?:rolleyes: yes!

[vc-kev]

High Five heavyD


plz

[bspot]

Originally posted by liquidboi69

Whoops I thought car and driver used JD. Disreguard what I said haha.

And thank god I took C++ or I woudln't know what != means lol.

But the 12 month review thing still stands. Most of the wear on the engine is after those 12 months. The only thing you could really judge in 12 months is the trim/electircal(?) wear...unless the engine really sucks lol. Most people are concerned about mechanical wear anyway.

True, but the aim of these things is more to nail down who has more manufacturing/design problems. Those are the kinds of things that will go right away.

[atomic]

i love statistics . they almost make sense . and those who fall for them are even funnier ....


A guy is afraid to fly on a plane. he goes to the ticket counter and explains to the lady. She asks why he's afraid. He says he is afraid of a terrorist bomb being on the plane.

the lady tries to help the man by explaining a statistic of terrorits and bombs. she says the chance of a bomb being on the plane is 1:1,000,000.

The man sighs in releif and then asks what the statistic of 2 bombs being on the plane.....

The lady blinks and says, I don't think that has ever happened and statistically never will.

Now the man travels with his own bomb.

[Hakkola]

I posted this in another thread just the other day but I'll do it again.

Top projected value after 5 years.

1 Mercedes-Benz CLK-Class — 55.2%


2 Mini Cooper — 55%


3 Ford GT — 52%


4 Mercedes-Benz CLK55 AMG — 50%
Toyota Camry Solara


5 Lexus SC 430 — 49.8%


6 Lexus ES 330 — 48.8%


7 Chevrolet Corvette — 48.5%


8 Audi S4 — 48%


9 Nissan Altima — 47.6%


10 Mercedes-Benz C55 AMG — 47.5%




Worst...

1 Dodge Neon — 26.1%


2 Chevrolet Cavalier — 26.3%


3 Pontiac Sunfire — 27.4%


4 Mercury Sable — 27.5%


5 Ford Taurus — 28.5%


6 Chevrolet Aveo — 28.6%


7 Dodge Stratus — 30.1%


8 Buick Park Avenue — 30.7%


9 Ford Focus — 31.4%


10 Chevrolet Malibu — 31.7%


Notice anything???? ;)

[Clanche]

With so many manufacturers sharing platforms and engines with each other its hard to say what an american car is and what a japenese one is.

also the PROBLEMS PER 100 VEHICLES is too vague of a calculation if you ask me. Alot of europeen cars have alot more features and very complex electrical system (they have alot more little things that can and do go wrong). say one GM comes back in for a blow tranny and one Audi comes back in for a headlight sensor, I don't think that it really compares in terms of reliability.

[heavyD]

Originally posted by Hakkola
Notice anything???? ;)

Yes. Two Dahlmer Chrysler cars were on the 'worst' list.

[Hakkola]

Originally posted by Clanche

also the PROBLEMS PER 100 VEHICLES is too vague of a calculation if you ask me. Alot of europeen cars have alot more features and very complex electrical system (they have alot more little things that can and do go wrong). say one GM comes back in for a blow tranny and one Audi comes back in for a headlight sensor, I don't think that it really compares in terms of reliability.

Very true, and generally the owner of an S class or 7 series is going to be a little more picky than the owner of a Cavalier.

People take their luxury cars in for service because they hear a creaking noise or if something sounds a little loose, on average that's going to happen more with a German than an American car.

However porsche and lexus seem to be very good for not having many problems, and Cadillac is getting better too which is surprising. My mom test drove a caddy once and it stalled, brand new car, then they told her it was fixed and she went back and the same thing happened, this was back in 2001 though...

All carmakers have their problems and this is getting long winded so I'm done. :burnout:

[Hakkola]

Originally posted by heavyD


Yes. Two Dahlmer Chrysler cars were on the 'worst' list.

Cars that don't share any parts with Mercedes, three Benz's on the best list...

On that worst resale value list all the cars are American.

[Altezza]

Originally posted by liquidboi69


But the 12 month review thing still stands. Most of the wear on the engine is after those 12 months. The only thing you could really judge in 12 months is the trim/electircal(?) wear...unless the engine really sucks lol. Most people are concerned about mechanical wear anyway.

This would only apply to the JD Power Initial Quality Survey. They have other ratings for longer term horizons, ie Vehicle Dependability Study.

[heavyD]

Originally posted by Hakkola


Cars that don't share any parts with Mercedes, three Benz's on the best list...

Don't kid yourself. Although that is correct about the Neon, many of Chryslers new products are using MB parts. I see that as good and bad. Good because you can say that your Dodge has MB parts. Bad because German cars have poor reliability in general compared to Japanese & Domestic.

[benyl]

Originally posted by Clanche
With so many manufacturers sharing platforms and engines with each other its hard to say what an american car is and what a japenese one is.

also the PROBLEMS PER 100 VEHICLES is too vague of a calculation if you ask me. Alot of europeen cars have alot more features and very complex electrical system (they have alot more little things that can and do go wrong). say one GM comes back in for a blow tranny and one Audi comes back in for a headlight sensor, I don't think that it really compares in terms of reliability.

A problem is a problem is a problem.

From my perspective, a burnt out light bulb is poor quality (in the first 12 months). So is a blown tranny.

[benyl]

Originally posted by Hakkola


Cars that don't share any parts with Mercedes, three Benz's on the best list...

On that worst resale value list all the cars are American.

Spending the same amount of initial money and depreciation, you could buy a new Neon every year and still come out ahead of buying a CLK 55. haha

[Hakkola]

Originally posted by heavyD


Don't kid yourself. Although that is correct about the Neon, many of Chryslers new products are using MB parts. I see that as good and bad. Good because you can say that your Dodge has MB parts. Bad because German cars have poor reliability in general compared to Japanese & Domestic.

I don't kid myself, Chrysler Crossfire and 300c are over 40% mercedes benz. I don't see either of those cars on the bad list though.


Originally posted by benyl


Spending the same amount of initial money and depreciation, you could buy a new Neon every year and still come out ahead of buying a CLK 55. haha

Hahaha, I'm not even going to comment on that one.

[arian_ma]

Originally posted by bspot


Consumer reports != JD Power and Associates

Bahahaha, that was just nerdy.
Comp programming :thumbsup:

Also, it says that the average is 17/100, and American cars have 18/100...yet they are still LOWER than the national average? what? Did I missunderstand something?

Edit: "Below Average". Gotcha. Self-owned.

[Mitsu3000gt]

Originally posted by Clanche
With so many manufacturers sharing platforms and engines with each other its hard to say what an american car is and what a japenese one is.

also the PROBLEMS PER 100 VEHICLES is too vague of a calculation if you ask me. Alot of europeen cars have alot more features and very complex electrical system (they have alot more little things that can and do go wrong). say one GM comes back in for a blow tranny and one Audi comes back in for a headlight sensor, I don't think that it really compares in terms of reliability.

:werd: Thats why these are flawed IMO. It is absolutely right that a problem is a problem, but there are so many more things to go wrong on high end european cars, that the fact that they are only marginally behind in problems/100 cars is impressive in itself. Additionally, all the problems will more than likely be super minor like the headlight example used. Also the drivetrains are more solid than most other vehicles and I would not even think twice about putting 500,000+ km on something like a bmw 5 or 7 series, or lexus GS430 just for example. If a headlight or window switch goes along the way, I could care less if other people are blowing tranny's and such.


Mark