Tuner Car VS. Supercar

[bituerbo]

Which Tuner car would you choose to battle a supercar around a track.

Let's set up a $20,000 limit (must include purchase price of vehicle) and the end result must beat a ferrari F430 around a track. (I chose the F430 as they retail for around $200,000 CAD; 1:10 ratio)

Figure this could make for some interesting discussion. Think it can be done at all?

[gpomp]

impossible. james chen proved this in 2002 in a 360.

http://www.sportcompactcarweb.com/features/0203scc_ferrari_360_modena_f1/

[EK 2.0]

I remember that USCC...

[bituerbo]

well...


fuck.

[E36M3]

F430s aren't 200k, but if I had to make a car that is comparable on a track (you didn't specify which kind of track) for 20k it would have to be a junkyard Civic and you'd have a hell of a time unless you had lots of extra parts and free labor.

For 100k you might be able to make a car that is comparable in some respects on a track, but again you'd have to be more specific as to what type of track work you are talking about.


Originally posted by bituerbo
Which Tuner car would you choose to battle a supercar around a track.

Let's set up a $20,000 limit (must include purchase price of vehicle) and the end result must beat a ferrari F430 around a track. (I chose the F430 as they retail for around $200,000 CAD; 1:10 ratio)

Figure this could make for some interesting discussion. Think it can be done at all?

[95EagleAWD]

No matter what it was, I'd still rather drive the F430.

Anything you can buy for 20K can't match the charisma of a Ferrari.

[E36M3]

Personally I don't think there is a better car at any price, but I think the point of putting a tuner car up against it would be for raw performance. For 100k, I think you could beat the F430 in a number of ways, but I doubt you could match the all around performance.

As for real world usability, reliability, panache, etc. I don't think it can be touched at any price.


Originally posted by 95EagleAWD
No matter what it was, I'd still rather drive the F430.

Anything you can buy for 20K can't match the charisma of a Ferrari.

[canadianskyline]

For 20k there is no way. For 50k i guarantee you could beat it.....on the track. But the ferrari is still gonna have 10x the driveability.

[E36M3]

Maybe in a drag race, but not on a racetrack that involves turning and braking.


Originally posted by canadianskyline
For 20k there is no way. For 50k i guarantee you could beat it.....on the track. But the ferrari is still gonna have 10x the driveability.

[gpomp]

the F430 is a rediculous car... the only thing that might be able to beat it is a mildly modified C6 Z06

[95EagleAWD]

Originally posted by gpomp
the F430 is a rediculous car... the only thing that might be able to beat it is a mildly modified C6 Z06

It'd have to be modded because in the latest R&T, the F430 ate the Z06 for lunch on the track.

[C4S]

This is kind of silly ... like saying get a $200 watch.... and want it as good as a $3000 watch...

Well ..or buy a Bike then .. a $20K bike will be as fast as a F430 ...

Another issue is ... where can u find a F430 for $200K ?? you are like $100K off my friend!! :D

[bspot]

Originally posted by 95EagleAWD
No matter what it was, I'd still rather drive the F430.

Anything you can buy for 20K can't match the charisma of a Ferrari.

Wierd... someone would rather drive a 300K car than a 20K car. Who'da thunk it? :dunno:

[Darkane]

I think a Monster Miata could do it

5.0 stuffed under the hood. it was on Car and driver I think.

Im pretty sure it could be done for 20k. If not boosted Miata or Turbo RX7 maybe? :dunno: Maybe a JDM MR2 for 7-8k then the rest in mods. Mid engine. Best chance besides the miata I think.

[projekz]

I know it's way over budget but a well tuned 993 911 turbo would probably keep up-I'd like to see a new M6 alongside the Ferrari:love:

[95EagleAWD]

Originally posted by projekz
I know it's way over budget but a well tuned 993 911 turbo would probably keep up-I'd like to see a new M6 alongside the Ferrari:love:

The Ferrari would eat the M6 for lunch.

473 hp vs. 505 hp.

3197 lbs vs. 3768 lbs.

F430 FTW.

[gp36912]

^^^ though that would problably only be true on a track thats is purely turns. the 430 has one advantage over the miata and that it will eat it for lunch on the straightways due to its gearing

[95EagleAWD]

Originally posted by projekz
I know it's way over budget but a well tuned 993 911 turbo would probably keep up-I'd like to see a new M6 alongside the Ferrari:love:

And why a 993 Turbo? The 997 is faster in every way.

[Darkane]

Originally posted by gp36912
^^^ though that would problably only be true on a track thats is purely turns. the 430 has one advantage over the miata and that it will eat it for lunch on the straightways due to its gearing

remember the miata now has 5.0 torque. gearing doesnt mean as much anymore. The thing is we gotta get power output up to par. 5.0 with heads, cam, bolt ons. Needs at LEAST 300whp in its 2400lb package to do it. I think i might be possible. Anyone?

[Ceza]

what about that e36 with the LS1?.. how much more then 20 grand is that?

my guess is somewhere close to $50,000 in order to take an f430 on the track. :dunno:

[a.z13]

"It'd have to be modded because in the latest R&T, the F430 ate the Z06 for lunch on the track."

You can't use these track tests because on Top Gear, the Z06 beat the F430 around the track. So it depends whose driving etc.

[962 kid]

Originally posted by Ceza
what about that e36 with the LS1?.. how much more then 20 grand is that?

my guess is somewhere close to $50,000 in order to take an f430 on the track. :dunno:

the LS1 e36 package can get quite pricey and even the more expensive ones are no match for a 430, I can attest to that first hand

*edit*
putting a little thought into it, I think it could be possible if you did all the work yourself and shopped around a little. I think a LS1 powered 944 could do it.

- a good 944 shell can be found for about 1000
- figure 5500 for a ls1 and tranny, 2000 in various parts to swap it in
- 2000 for a 993tt big brake kit
- 2500 for a full coilover conversion
- 4000 for a set of wheels/tyres
-strip it out fo free!

and you're left with ~3000 to spend on miscellaneous expenses or mods and a 2200 pound, 400hp track car

[b_t]

962 kid totally stole my idea, but a V8 RX-7..

$1,000 RX-7 Turbo 2 roller (alum hood saves weight)
$5,500 LS1 + T56 transmission
$1,000 swap kit
$600 shorty headers
$600 custom dual 2.5" exhaust
$800 cam and chip program
$1,500 Tein circuit master coilovers
$300 upper pillow ball mounts
$700 front and rear sway bar upgrades
$2,500 Project Mu brake upgrade
$2,000 rim and tire package

$16,300 and it looks better then a 944 and you've got $3,700 to supercharge it in case you are lacking straight line power, but a LS1 RX-7 with just headers and exhaust will run mid 12s in the quarter and on a big shot of nitrous will run deep into the 10s, so that won't be a big problem.

[962 kid]

Originally posted by b_t
962 kid totally stole my idea, but a V8 RX-7..

$1,000 RX-7 Turbo 2 roller (alum hood saves weight)
$5,500 LS1 + T56 transmission
$1,000 swap kit
$600 shorty headers
$600 custom dual 2.5" exhaust
$800 cam and chip program
$1,500 Tein circuit master coilovers
$300 upper pillow ball mounts
$700 front and rear sway bar upgrades
$2,500 Project Mu brake upgrade
$2,000 rim and tire package

$16,300 and it looks better then a 944 and you've got $3,700 to supercharge it in case you are lacking straight line power, but a LS1 RX-7 with just headers and exhaust will run mid 12s in the quarter and on a big shot of nitrous will run deep into the 10s, so that won't be a big problem.

stole your idea my ass haha. 944 > Rx7 either way, much stiffer and wider flares (can fit bigger tyres). Plus, I've accounted for a lot more fudge factor than your car (4k for tyres instead of 2k, 2k for swap instead of 1k, etc).

[footballer]

shouldn't be to hard to beat it in a drag no? it runs 12's i believe. You can't tell me you can't run 12's with 20000?

But around the track....impossible rx7 plus ls1 i don't think would handle very well at all.

[That.Guy.S30]

how about a civic hatch w/ a 4g63 and awd. and some goodies after that.

[LilDrunkenSmurf]

i'm fairly sure it can be done...
the question is, why do it? and who would bother?
the driveability would be non-existant, it'd be a pure track car vs a supercar... personally, i'd rather have the supercar...

[b_t]

Originally posted by footballer
shouldn't be to hard to beat it in a drag no? it runs 12's i believe. You can't tell me you can't run 12's with 20000?

But around the track....impossible rx7 plus ls1 i don't think would handle very well at all.

RX7 plus LS1 still has 50/50 weight distribution, if you move the battery to the trunk. It only weighs like 30 or 40 pounds over a Turbo 2. They actually handle a bit better since the LS1 has a lower center of gravity then the rotary and the other big thing is you have a bigger transmission that sits lower in the tunnel, also helps lower center of gravity, giving the car even more razor sharp handling.
With stock fenders you can fit 275 wide rear tires which would give some nice traction, Goodyear Eagle F1s are the best street tire at that price.
And then it is only a very lightly modded LS1. You don't even need a stage 3+ cam, a stage 2 would get you there. Driveability would be awesome. the whole point of this buildup is you start with such an awesome chassis the rest of it basically takes care of itself. You could save $2,500 and go with an older 350 carbureted engine and Turbo 350 with a slap shift but then you don't have driveability of a modern fuel injected car on the factory computer with stock injectors, etc..

[bituerbo]

Haha yes guys I get it, I think we would all take the F430 if we won a contest and had to choose a prize, however I'd most certainly take a $400,000 a year job over a $40,000 a year job with both jobs having the exact same duties and responsibilities.

I'll be honest, when I started this topic the car I had in mind was a built and boosted miata (although the LS1 option sounds just as tasty), Khumo Ecsta V710's and a some Koni coilovers and upgraded sway bars. Tear out the pass. seat, anything else which isn't required to operate. replace anything non-structural with fiberglass.

If you set out on a mission to build a purpose built car to beat these figures:

Power - 490hp
Weight - 3200lbs
Skidpad - 0.92g
0-60(mph) - 3.5 seconds


I think it could be done. That 'competition' that was listed above were people's project cars being put up agasint a ferrari. I doubt any of those cars owners sat down and said "I'mma build me a Ferarri killer!"

[gp36912]

Originally posted by 962 kid


the LS1 e36 package can get quite pricey and even the more expensive ones are no match for a 430, I can attest to that first hand

*edit*
putting a little thought into it, I think it could be possible if you did all the work yourself and shopped around a little. I think a LS1 powered 944 could do it.

- a good 944 shell can be found for about 1000
- figure 5500 for a ls1 and tranny, 2000 in various parts to swap it in
- 2000 for a 993tt big brake kit
- 2500 for a full coilover conversion
- 4000 for a set of wheels/tyres
-strip it out fo free!

and you're left with ~3000 to spend on miscellaneous expenses or mods and a 2200 pound, 400hp track car

^^^ used ls1? brand new ls1 is 7gs alone, let alone the harness and computer that you need

[Redlyne_mr2]

someone remind what this thread is about haha its pretty much the entire beyond.ca car forums compressed into one thread

[ZedMan]

Originally posted by gp36912


^^^ used ls1? brand new ls1 is 7gs alone, let alone the harness and computer that you need

http://www.gmpartsdirect.com/results.cfm?perfPackages=1&pkgid=22

[iceburns288]

Turbo Civic hatch (EG) would do the trick. It's the track car I wanted to build to take to Ferrari club track days. 2000-2100lbs with full roll cage, turbo B18 or B20 making 300hp? 300whp? FWD but fast as hell with slicks. "with slicks" being the only problem, because you can put slicks on the F430 too... oh well.

[bituerbo]

2nd gen MR2's can be brought down to around 2200lbs with some expulsion of non-essentials. Stock engine capable of 300hp +. Add slicks and coilovers FTW?

With an MR setup I'd feel understeer wouldn't be a problem, and you'd have SUCH an issue putting the power down on corner exits with such a high-powered FWD like the civic.

[shedboy]

anyone seen the vid of the smart car vs ferarri? pretty sure it was the f430 and the smart car pwnt it in the 1/4, by a second and a half or so.

[Super_Geo]

Ariel Atom + mods? Maybe?

[ZedMan]

the atom is more than double the $20000 budget

[bituerbo]

Originally posted by ZedMan
the atom is more than double the $20000 budget

Yeah, I think a stock atom would sweep a ferrari, and yes it's way over the $20,000 budget.
Atom :love:

[bituerbo]

Originally posted by shedboy
anyone seen the vid of the smart car vs ferarri? pretty sure it was the f430 and the smart car pwnt it in the 1/4, by a second and a half or so.

Smart car + R-compound tires + hard cornering = cartwheel.

[riceeater]

Originally posted by bituerbo
Haha yes guys I get it, I think we would all take the F430 if we won a contest and had to choose a prize, however I'd most certainly take a $400,000 a year job over a $40,000 a year job with both jobs having the exact same duties and responsibilities.

I'll be honest, when I started this topic the car I had in mind was a built and boosted miata (although the LS1 option sounds just as tasty), Khumo Ecsta V710's and a some Koni coilovers and upgraded sway bars. Tear out the pass. seat, anything else which isn't required to operate. replace anything non-structural with fiberglass.

If you set out on a mission to build a purpose built car to beat these figures:

Power - 490hp
Weight - 3200lbs
Skidpad - 0.92g
0-60(mph) - 3.5 seconds


I think it could be done. That 'competition' that was listed above were people's project cars being put up agasint a ferrari. I doubt any of those cars owners sat down and said "I'mma build me a Ferarri killer!"

LOOOOL...kumho tires and koni struts coupled with mad power will take down the F430?? the point of the article about the F430 was that it did well in almost every aspect... that cover cornering and speed at best, though come on, simple konis have nothing on computer control dampening suspension no matter how you look at it...

do you guys remember the EVO vs Murcielago episode on top gear? i think if anything is gonna come close, is gonna be an EVO... you might have to make due with an older one, but w/ all the technology in the AWD system, with its fancy anti-yaw system and 3 differentials for stability control, the evo only needs a little more oompf engine wise to get it to keep up in the straights and they'll be close to the same i think...

if i had to do it... i'd buy a used ariel with the cheap engine option (hopefully blown up), rebuild the honda typeR engine and then turbo/supercharge it... you dont NEED to get the 300hp version from ariel, the 130hp one has the same suspension and everything else, and honda engines and parts are a dime a dozen

[bituerbo]

Used Ariel's ? find me one for less than 20k.
I've seen used ones go for more than sticker, for no other reason than not having to go through the wait list process.

http://forum.atomclub.com/index.php?PHPSESSID=55dada283e71daed6c4033a571ddebd0&board=3.0

[Zoom_Zoom]

240sx bad condition body, 2g. swap to rb33dett, costs like 17 g installation plus the engine. Boom get ur blow off valve. ull have a little extra for it. its not expensive. then u be pushing more tourqe, u win.

[E36M3]

Win what? It still wouldn't touch a Ferrari on a track and if you were pushing anywhere near comparable power you'd blow up once a lap.


Originally posted by Zoom_Zoom
240sx bad condition body, 2g. swap to rb33dett, costs like 17 g installation plus the engine. Boom get ur blow off valve. ull have a little extra for it. its not expensive. then u be pushing more tourqe, u win.

[iceburns288]

Originally posted by E36M3
Win what? It still wouldn't touch a Ferrari on a track and if you were pushing anywhere near comparable power you'd blow up once a lap.
I think he's kidding... at least, I hope so...

[finboy]

ls1 or well built 5.0L and a nice fc/fd shell, blow the rest on suspension, good broad torque curve, still maintains balance, and can easily crank out 400 hp and stay under 2900 pounds. might make it a bit closer of a fight :dunno:

i've heard a 302 with aluminum heads is lighter then an ls1, bringing the car even closer to 50/50 but i don't have any specs to back it up so :dunno:

as per ls1 drivetrain cost with wiring, you are looking about 3-4 grand us, HOWEVER many guys on the v8 rx7 boards have snagged drivetrains with harnesses for 1500 or less and they weren't junkers by a long shot, just gotta keep your eyes open :devil:

[gp36912]

Originally posted by ZedMan


http://www.gmpartsdirect.com/results.cfm?perfPackages=1&pkgid=22


i guess if you buy it from them. but you have to add in the shipping price of it too. since shipping is done by the lb. how much would it cost for the engine??

my quote is from a gm dealership directly, the engine is 5400usd. thats roughly 6gs here and it does not come with wireing harness or comp. and don't forget shipping. which they would have to do special procedures to get through customs.

[thesmackdown]

If your talking about build a drag car that could kick its ass it is doable but you need older cars like a Datsun 310/510 or an Rx3. Something that weighs like 1500-1800 lbs.

you'd think a 510 with a say a 400-450 whp RB26 could kill it on a drag track. I think on an actual race track though nothing would come close. For what its worth it doesn't take much to make a RB26 produce 400+ and being that the car weighs almost half as much it would work. Also RB33, uhmm biggest I've ever heard of is an RB30DET and that is a fawked up hybrid engine. A 510 though i know for fact would kick its ass so bad in drag people would be wondering why it was costing a few hundred grand. people in aussie land run 400hp 510's in the high 10's and 11's all day long. It would be the same thing for a RX3 with a 20b in it, no competition seriously.

I paid $2400 CDN for my shell which I bought from an insurance company in arizona. Drag wise you could beat it though.

[gpomp]

Originally posted by thesmackdown
If your talking about build a drag car that could kick its ass it is doable
too bad we're not...

[SILVIA KING,S]

I say nissan silvia with that much cash in my car and i did the work
my self it will kill all.

[finboy]

Originally posted by SILVIA KING,S
I say nissan silvia with that much cash in my car and i did the work
my self it will kill all.

nope

[rx7girlie]

For comparison sake, lets say they had to race one lap at the Ring, the mother of all tracks. And, they had to be on the same type of tires.

I think it could be done, but it sure wouldn't be pretty and it'd be a car that couldn't do anything with other than track days...

edit: just tried building a car on paper... to do it on 20 G, you'd have to use used parts

[Justing]

Get a supra shell... paint it orange with graphics.. put in 10-15g's for some overnight parts from japan and it will decimate all. True story.

/thread

[Konj]

Rabbit or a MK2 Golf can do the trick. Shit theres even a video about one how its beating super cars around the track...

[finboy]

Originally posted by Konj
Rabbit or a MK2 Golf can do the trick. Shit theres even a video about one how its beating super cars around the track...

fwd + lots of power = tractionless wonder
would need slicks to compete

[Konj]

i show u the video once i get a hold of it by tonight.. Could be on slicks I cant really remember what the car had all I know is that it was a Rabbit or a MK2 volkswagen with a 1.8T engine modified

[Konj]

This is't the video but heres a glimpse of something that could do it...
MK3 golf modified

http://videos.streetfire.net/category/VW/1/31dbe517-4697-42f1-97f0-98180080c4a2.htm

nice video :)

[JCX]

Originally posted by 95EagleAWD


It'd have to be modded because in the latest R&T, the F430 ate the Z06 for lunch on the track.

In the new Car and Driver the C6 Z06 beat the F430 and the 911 turbo around a track. :dunno:

[CryoCarnage]

guys guys guys. you guys are thinking too much. What you do is build your own kit car for 8 grand and it can be done. Anyone who disagrees with me doesnt know where to look for parts.