Rx-8 Recall?

[Crymson]

Looks like a supposed recall got leaked, some rx-8 owners may need new motors.

I hope the rx-8 owners will keep the rest of us updated, to see what happens with this, and wether or not they get a letter.

http://rotarynews.com/node/view/822

Let us know whats up.

this quote kind of irk'ed me


In the video, dealers said problems with the RX-8 were unfairly lowering Mazda customer-satisfaction scores.

Mazda informed the dealers that RX-8 owners would continue to be surveyed, but that the responses would not factor into dealer
customer-satisfaction scores

I've always like mazda as a company, but this is just shifty -- "We don't like you guys complaining about your cars, so your views don't count"

[benyl]

Omg, what a disaster. First they had to offer refunds because it wasn't making the advertised power. Now they are replacing engines...

[Lex350]

Originally posted by Crymson
Looks like a supposed recall got leaked, some rx-8 owners may need new motors.

I hope the rx-8 owners will keep the rest of us updated, to see what happens with this, and wether or not they get a letter.

http://rotarynews.com/node/view/822

Let us know whats up.

this quote kind of irk'ed me



I've always like mazda as a company, but this is just shifty -- "We don't like you guys complaining about your cars, so your views don't count"


The Rx8 boards are lit up about all this. Mazda has really fucked up on this whole issue. I myself am am on to my thrid engine. I never have abused the car and was up to date on all my service and TSB's.

I am so glad I leased the car. It's a shame really because it is such a fun car to drive. When my lease is up I'll check out these cars:


G35 coupe
Acura TL
Maxima
Mustang GT Convertible

[4doorj]

ouch that sucks!!!
i love rx8's too

[JspecB16]

Originally posted by rotten42


When my lease is up I'll check out these cars:


G35 coupe
Acura TL
Maxima
Mustang GT Convertible

you should add a bimmer of some kind to that list..... trust me.

[Crymson]

I guess it will be like the 3rd gen rx-7's -- after about 10 years of discovering manufacturer defects and designing parts, the aftermarket community will have corrected for all the common failures, and produce a reliable car 10 years after it rolled off the assembly lines. Far too late to save the reputation of the car.

[JRSC00LUDE]

Wow I didn't know that the rx-8 was such a shit-box. I guess Ford really made their presence felt in that company in their time as part owner.....

[Lex350]

Originally posted by JRSC00LUDE
Wow I didn't know that the rx-8 was such a shit-box. I guess Ford really made their presence felt in that company in their time as part owner.....

it has nothing to do with Ford. This car is all done in Japan.

[Lex350]

Originally posted by JspecB16


you should add a bimmer of some kind to that list..... trust me.


I like the BMW's but the mark up on a new one is just plain stupid. Much higher than most cars. I was looking at them before I got my RX8 but decided against it.

[benyl]

um, BMW isn't that reliable either. And when they break down, they cost an arm and a leg to fix.

[Lex350]

here are some quotes taken from the RX8 boards that might explain the issure further:



"Mazda already knows of the potential for carbon buildup in this engine. The proof of that is in the shape of the closing edge of the exhaust ports and the wedge shape of the side seals. You know they did all of their testing on conventional "genuine Mazda oil" yet they still have carbon issues and have always had them. These problems are nothing new. It is just them coming around and finally admitting that it is an issue that needs to be dealt with. Back in the 70's, Mazda experimented with the side exhaust port but did not do it. Why? They had carbon issues that resulted in carbon collecting in the ports and breaking seals. You know they used conventional oils back then too as practically everyone did. The modern day solution to it was to use more accurate oil metering techniques than just dumping it down the carb like the old cars in the 70's, wedge shaped side seals to help remove any carbon buildup from sticking them in place, and the gradual closing edge shape on the exhaust ports to help scrape away any carbon. None of this is a new issue and none of it is a problem that didn't exist before synthetic oils. That is just their scapegoat for it.

Come on Mazda, just admit what the problem really is and make us all happy."




"I have a source which states the previous recalibrations on the MOP and fuel profiles which originally were designed to address this issue are ultimately to blame. More oil to lubricate ... more fuel to burn the oil. Increased premature wear and deterioration of side, corner and apex seals has led to more engine failures and diminished engine longevity. The "damage", if any, has already been done to the engines and they are looking for the damaged ones and replacing them."



"I wonder how much more aggressive the MOP profile will be at cruise and idle. That has to have an affect on emissions ... and if more fuel is needed to burn off the oil then consumption has to be affected. Unless they are just going to increase oil flow without changing anything else. Curious that they would increase the volume of oil burned ...in favor of increasing the viscosity for better lubrication. It would be interesting to see the cost/benefit analysis.

They clearly don't want to lean the fuel out and generate more heat ... they have already had to address heat issues with another recall.

Just seems to me they (or we) are between a rock and a hard place. There is little margin for movement in either direction when dancing on the fence rail. "





LIke I said before, this is a real shame because it is a fun car to drive and I liked the comcept of a rotary engine. Other than the engine (big issue) the car has worked fantastic. The gad mileage wasn;t bad. 18-19 in the city and I've gotten 23-24 on the highway. For me this was accpetable.

[JRSC00LUDE]

Originally posted by rotten42


it has nothing to do with Ford. This car is all done in Japan.

Apparently I'm having a really hard time with sarcasm and humore today......I may have to log out and start working if things don't get better. :D

[bspot]

I'm thinking the is the last rotary we'll see in a car....

[Lex350]

Originally posted by JRSC00LUDE


Apparently I'm having a really hard time with sarcasm and humore today......I may have to log out and start working if things don't get better. :D


you should have used a smiley thing..hard to know otherwise.

[Mitsu3000gt]

I had no idea they had such engine problems, that is ridiculous. If I bought a car and needed my entire engine recalled I would be furious, and sell it and get something else for sure.

What they should do, is recall them all, put in a real engine that makes some torque and decent HP, and make all their customer's happy. The RX-7 was way faster than the RX-8, granted it had 2 turbos but I don't see why they can't do that with this one. I don't know why they made the new one slower than the old one - that doesn't usually happen. Neither were known for their reliability as I keep hearing over and over.

When I drove the RX-8 it handled pretty good, but it was slow and I wouldn't buy one based on the fact that it has a digital speedometer - for some reason I hate that, I have a much worse sense of how fast I'm accelerating. Also with a needle, you can see it in your peripheral vision.

Anyways I agree that this may be the last we see of the rotary motor, at least until they can make them reliable. A nice twin turbo V6 or small block V8 placed behind the front axle a little ways would make it a nice drive. They could probably do that too because they have such a long nose. They'd never do that, but I think it would be cool.

[Lex350]

Originally posted by bspot
I'm thinking the is the last rotary we'll see in a car....


sadly...I think you are right.

[spyce]

That sucks...I was pretty fond of the RX8. Was even thinking of picking a used one up a few months ago. I guess Im glad I didnt. To think it would have been out of warranty in a couple years and then the high probability of it being unreliable :nut:

[Lex350]

Originally posted by Mitsu3000gt
I had no idea they had such engine problems, that is ridiculous. If I bought a car and needed my entire engine recalled I would sell it and get something else for sure.

What they should do, is recall them all, put in a real engine that makes some torque and decent HP, and make all their customer's happy. The RX-7 was way faster than the RX-8, granted it had 2 turbos but I don't see why they can't do that with this one. I don't know why they made the new one worse than the old one - that doesn't usually happen. Neither were known for their reliability as I keep hearing over and over.

When I drove the RX-8 it handled pretty good, but it was slow and I wouldn't buy one based on the fact that it has a digital speedometer - for some reason I hate that, I have a much worse sense of how fast I'm accelerating. Also with a needle, you can see it in your peripheral vision.

Anyways I agree that this may be the last we see of the rotary motor, at least until they can make them reliable. A nice twin turbo V6 or small block V8 placed behind the front axle a little ways would make it a nice drive. They could probably do that too because they have such a long nose.


I plan to get rid of it after the lease is up. The HP issue isn't that big a deal to many people. It's never been a problem for me because it has enough power to do what ever I needed it to do. Would more HP be nice...sure but it wasn't a deal breaker.


I know a couple of people with first gen RX7's. One has over 150,000kms and the other over 200,000kms....never any problems. The renisis is a new design.

The problem is with the fuel and oil metering. Only North American cars had the re-flash that decreased the power so that the cat wouldn't burn out. In Japan and Austraia for instance, they didn't have this and they aren't having the same problem with engines there.

At fisrt I didn't like the digital speedo but I really like it now. Besides, the wife can't see it when I'm driving or if she is been nosey I can switch it over to miles and reasure he that I'm only doing 80. :D

[JRSC00LUDE]

Originally posted by rotten42



you should have used a smiley thing..hard to know otherwise.

But I'm all about the dry humour........:D :D :D

[RX_EVOLV]

hmm bad news indeed... I hope my 2006 wont have to be recalled, unless they plan on replacing a new engine with higher power and less fuel consumption, either way still love my RX8 to death and no regret buying it

[Mitsu3000gt]

Originally posted by rotten42



I plan to get rid of it after the lease is up. The HP issue isn't that big a deal to many people. It's never been a problem for me because it has enough power to do what ever I needed it to do. Would more HP be nice...sure but it wasn't a deal breaker.


I know a couple of people with first gen RX7's. One has over 150,000kms and the other over 200,000kms....never any problems. The renisis is a new design.

The problem is with the fuel and oil metering. Only North American cars had the re-flash that decreased the power so that the cat wouldn't burn out. In Japan and Austraia for instance, they didn't have this and they aren't having the same problem with engines there.


At fisrt I didn't like the digital speedo but I really like it now. Besides, the wife can't see it when I'm driving or if she is been nosey I can switch it over to miles and reasure he that I'm only doing 80. :D


Haha I didn' know you could do that with the digital speedo, I like that.

It's definately not a bad car, those were just my impressions over a 20 min test drive - I'm sure I'd like and dislike different things if I lived with one for a while.

How exactly is the Renesis motor different from the rotary one in the RX-7? I thought they were fairly similar still. I know the RX-8 had a bit different technology but I don't know exactly what. Doesn't it have 2 rotors or something?

Could you just get rid of your cats and then buy a chip to get the HP back up to normal without worrying about heat in the cats?

[Lex350]

Originally posted by RX_EVOLV
hmm bad news indeed... I hope my 2006 wont have to be recalled, unless they plan on replacing a new engine with higher power and less fuel consumption, either way still love my RX8 to death and no regret buying it


I understand. I love the car but with the track record I'm having I don't want to have to replace an engine outside of the warranty. My other concern is the replacment engines are not new ones from Japan but rebuilt ones by Delphi out of North Carolina.

[Lex350]

Originally posted by Mitsu3000gt



Haha I didn' know you could do that with the digital speedo, I like that.

It's definately not a bad car, those were just my impressions over a 20 min test drive - I'm sure I'd like and dislike different things if I lived with one for a while.

How exactly is the Renesis motor different from the rotary one in the RX-7? I thought they were fairly similar still. I know the RX-8 had a bit different technology but I don't know exactly what. Doesn't it have 2 rotors or something?

Could you just get rid of your cats and then buy a chip to get the HP back up to normal without worrying about heat in the cats?


three words

side port design.


I'm at the stage in my life now where I don't want to mod my car anymore. I went through my phase...and a shit load of money to replace broken parts. I just want a nice car with good power, great handling and with something a bit different.

[Crymson]

How exactly is the Renesis motor different from the rotary one in the RX-7? I thought they were fairly similar still. I know the RX-8 had a bit different technology but I don't know exactly what. Doesn't it have 2 rotors or something?



Here is some pictures that may explain the difference, provided you can recognize the rotary internals.

On both the rx-7 and rx-8 the intake port is on the side of the housing

1 rx-7 rotor and housing (http://www.turborx7.com/repictures.htm) That is the exhaust port on the lower right of the rotor housing. You can see the intake port peek around the rotor above the exhaust port.

The rx-8 still has the same intake on the side of the housing,

1 "Renesis" rx-8 rotor + housing (http://www.turborx7.com/images/repics/Renesis-h.jpg) See, on this, the exhaust port has been moved to the side of the housing as opposed to on it.

Intuitively, i don't understand it. You'd *think* the 13b REW would be the better design, because intuition tells me that you'd get better exhaust flow as the rotor "sweeps" out the exhaust, directly out of the housing. I think this is what makes the rx-7 motor more turbo friendly.

I'm not too knowledgeable on the arguments for the renesis, but it would suggest to me, that with the exhaust and the intake on the side of the housing, you have less a chance of carbon build up, or various internal wear, ruining your apex seals as it sweeps over the exhaust port.

[Supa Dexta]

Atleast they are stepping up and replacing the engines, as opposed to chrysler and their 2.7's... :guns:

[energieboi]

Originally posted by rotten42



The Rx8 boards are lit up about all this. Mazda has really fucked up on this whole issue. I myself am am on to my thrid engine. I never have abused the car and was up to date on all my service and TSB's.

I am so glad I leased the car. It's a shame really because it is such a fun car to drive. When my lease is up I'll check out these cars:


G35 coupe
Acura TL
Maxima
Mustang GT Convertible

:thumbsup: get the G35 coupe
thats what I am getting the 2008, looks like a beast

[Crymson]

Originally posted by energieboi


:thumbsup: get the G35 coupe
thats what I am getting the 2008, looks like a beast

Wait--- you're getting a G35, but the last thread you started was about not being able to get a lease for an apartment? I think your priorities are backwards m8, sorry to be off topic here.

Edit,

nvm, missed the oil and gas comment in your other thread.

Enjoy the g35.

[Mitsu3000gt]

Originally posted by Crymson


Here is some pictures that may explain the difference, provided you can recognize the rotary internals.

On both the rx-7 and rx-8 the intake port is on the side of the housing

1 rx-7 rotor and housing (http://www.turborx7.com/repictures.htm) That is the exhaust port on the lower right of the rotor housing. You can see the intake port peek around the rotor above the exhaust port.

The rx-8 still has the same intake on the side of the housing,

1 "Renesis" rx-8 rotor + housing (http://www.turborx7.com/images/repics/Renesis-h.jpg) See, on this, the exhaust port has been moved to the side of the housing as opposed to on it.

Intuitively, i don't understand it. You'd *think* the 13b REW would be the better design, because intuition tells me that you'd get better exhaust flow as the rotor "sweeps" out the exhaust, directly out of the housing. I think this is what makes the rx-7 motor more turbo friendly.

I'm not too knowledgeable on the arguments for the renesis, but it would suggest to me, that with the exhaust and the intake on the side of the housing, you have less a chance of carbon build up, or various internal wear, ruining your apex seals as it sweeps over the exhaust port.

Thats good info, thankyou.

[DeeK]

Originally posted by rotten42


it has nothing to do with Ford. This car is all done in Japan.

The Rx-7's were all done with japanese design and such. But Ford was a huge part of the RX-8 program, although the car was built in japan.

I don't know how true this is. It is was what Adam (the owner) at RX-7 specialties told me. This is why there is tons of problems with the RX-8.

[Lex350]

Originally posted by DeeK


The Rx-7's were all done with japanese design and such. But Ford was a huge part of the RX-8 program, although the car was built in japan.

I don't know how true this is. It is was what Adam (the owner) at RX-7 specialties told me. This is why there is tons of problems with the RX-8.

not so much as say with Jaguar etc....It doesn;t share parts with any other Ford car.

[Xtrema]

Originally posted by DeeK


The Rx-7's were all done with japanese design and such. But Ford was a huge part of the RX-8 program, although the car was built in japan.

I don't know how true this is. It is was what Adam (the owner) at RX-7 specialties told me. This is why there is tons of problems with the RX-8.

No, it's just the complexity to build a reliable rotary engine. You would think they'll get it right this time. I think the Mazdaspeed 2.3 would be fun in the RX-8.

[Crymson]

Originally posted by Xtrema


No, it's just the complexity to build a reliable rotary engine. You would think they'll get it right this time. I think the Mazdaspeed 2.3 would be fun in the RX-8.

I kind of agree, i mean, moving the ports was a massive change in engine design, comparable id' say, to pushrods and OHC. Engine still works the same, basically, but shit is alot different now and that leads to alot of unexpected stuff occurring, and then pile on that, restrictive emissions laws in NA and you have a serious non rotary friendly environment.

They should have stuck with the 13b REW, and tweaked it, rather than reinventing the wheel for the rx-8. I'm sure they could have brought up the torque with some porting, and used what they learned from the rx-7 emissions debacle in the 90's. But then again, it mabey would have made 200hp.

And as much as the rx-8 is pretty rad, it was being designed when the ecomony was just starting to come back, so the idea was to keep it cheaper, I'm sure, looking back now, the mazda designes gladly would have put in a twin turbo 13b REW, if they knew that 55,000 sports cars would be selling again.

You guys have to remember that mazda was building the rx-7 up utnil 2002 in japan, so it's not like they "forgot" what they knew about rotaries.

[Teggy2nr]

Jeez Mazda had been making rotary engines for almost 20 years and they still cant get it right:dunno:

[Crymson]

I think it's funny how people will jump all over a rotary recall like a group of chimpanzee's shouting "looooooooook".

There have been just as many shitty boingers built as well.

[guessboi]

sux for those who has a RX8. :banghead:
I wonder if the car will be the same with the new engine. :cry:

[JordanEG6]

didnt they recall this piece of junk already once before, for being under powered? haha what a mess

[BlueFrenzy]

^^^ I wouldn't go as far to say that it's a piece of junk. The "recall" you are thinking of happened at the port due to EPA regulation ... MNA released a flash to meet regulations (prior to official release). Do a bit of research before you classify it as junk.

Besides, the information above is incorrect ... they are NOT replacing every single renesis in existence. The voluntary recall (only in North America) is done first to TEST the engines for compression loss, etc. If you unfortunately fall into the category, they will give you a new engine. If not, then you are ok and they will give you a new flash that's more "friendly" (injects a bit more oil to help with seals)

The side port was moved for a number of reasons:
- allows for optimum port timing duration and more port area leaving engine (ie more area for air to flow out)
-more room for incoming air
-increase volumetric efficiency --> more power from same amount of fuel
-less mixing of intake air and allows for cooler air to enter

All this results in better mileage, more power and cleaner air.

Before you guys comment on how crappy Mazda is because it's owned by Ford ... know this, the RX-8 is manufactured entirely in Hiroshima, Japan. Ford didn't touch it. The head engineers in charge of rotary development are Yamaguchi and Yamamoto and are NOT Ford people.

I personally believe that it was the North American flashes that is the cause of the issue. The Japanese did a beautiful job tuning the PCM (they do not have this issue) but in order to meet the EPAs, MNA had to reflash to meet specs. So it's not a design issue or even quality issue. It's an "after the fact" issue.

[BlueFrenzy]

RX_EVOLV --> your 2006 should be safe, it's build dates 03 to 05. But you should bring it in anyways to have it vacuum tested.

[RX_EVOLV]

Originally posted by BlueFrenzy
RX_EVOLV --> your 2006 should be safe, it's build dates 03 to 05. But you should bring it in anyways to have it vacuum tested.

it says and a selected few 2006s.. mine has a build day of Feb something 2006. hmmm I guess I should bring it in for a test when the recall is offical, think they will do it for free?

[BlueFrenzy]

I think we'll be getting letters in the mail next week or so. So don't call for an appointment just yet. It wouldn't hurt to get the car tested if you get the letter.

[Lex350]

hahaha...I get mine back tomorrow...I beat you all;)

[BlueFrenzy]

Rotty ... I guess with the new engine it has all the flashes associated with it? Man, you always get the new flashes first.

[Tech2]

Bah, recall nothing. Just send everyone a can of Seafoam.

[SlowLude]

I think internet rumor and gossip have destroyed the image for this car. This recall is supposed to affect less than 1% of cars before '06. It's an awesome car and don't let the few reports of unreliable engines, bad gas mileage and flooding get the better part of you. The way I see it, its an awesome looking, RWD 4-seater with all the goodies than can be had for a little more than an RSX Type S.

[MIWYFSHOTTER]

Originally posted by JordanEG6
didnt they recall this piece of junk already once before, for being under powered? haha what a mess

Oh yea and your BB K20 EH3 isn't a piece of junk? :rolleyes:

[khtm]

I love all the civic owners saying how RX-8s are soooooo slow.

Really, really funny guys. :D

[Cruz]

Originally posted by JspecB16


you should add a bimmer of some kind to that list..... trust me.

Audi brother.

[Crymson]

http://www.rotaryengineillustrated.com/wankel-engine-animations/renesis-animation.html

best rotory animation i've found.

[drox]

Originally posted by Teggy2nr
Jeez Mazda had been making rotary engines for almost 20 years and they still cant get it right:dunno: Dumbest comment in this thread.

[kazisdaman]

I agree that is a stuipid comment, the rotary engine (http://www.rotaryengineillustrated.com/how-a-wankel-rotary-engine-works/index.php) is very reliable.

If you want to see it check out some rotary engine animationsRotary Engine Animation (http://www.rotaryengineillustrated.com/wankel-engine-animations/index.php)

:eek: