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Toma
09-21-2006, 09:13 AM
This Speech was made by an elected leader of a free nation, who the US has tried to "remove" 4 times since his election...


And the devil came here yesterday.

(APPLAUSE)

Yesterday, the devil came here. Right here. Right here. And it smells of sulfur still today, this table that I am now standing in front of.

Yesterday, ladies and gentlemen, from this rostrum, the president of the United States, the gentleman to whom I refer as the devil, came here, talking as if he owned the world. Truly. As the owner of the world.

I think we could call a psychiatrist to analyze yesterday's statement made by the president of the United States. As the spokesman of imperialism, he came to share his nostrums, to try to preserve the current pattern of domination, exploitation and pillage of the peoples of the world.

An Alfred Hitchcock movie could use it as a scenario. I would even propose a title: "The Devil's Recipe."

As Chomsky says here, clearly and in depth, the American empire is doing all it can to consolidate its system of domination. And we cannot allow them to do that. We cannot allow world dictatorship to be consolidated.

The world parent's statement -- cynical, hypocritical, full of this imperial hypocrisy from the need they have to control everything.

They say they want to impose a democratic model. But that's their democratic model. It's the false democracy of elites, and, I would say, a very original democracy that's imposed by weapons and bombs and firing weapons.

What a strange democracy. Aristotle might not recognize it or others who are at the root of democracy.

What type of democracy do you impose with marines and bombs?

The president of the United States, yesterday, said to us, right here, in this room, and I'm quoting, "Anywhere you look, you hear extremists telling you can escape from poverty and recover your dignity through violence, terror and martyrdom."

Wherever he looks, he sees extremists. And you, my brother -- he looks at your color, and he says, oh, there's an extremist. Evo Morales, the worthy president of Bolivia, looks like an extremist to him.

The imperialists see extremists everywhere. It's not that we are extremists. It's that the world is waking up. It's waking up all over. And people are standing up.

I have the feeling, dear world dictator, that you are going to live the rest of your days as a nightmare because the rest of us are standing up, all those who are rising up against American imperialism, who are shouting for equality, for respect, for the sovereignty of nations.

Yes, you can call us extremists, but we are rising up against the empire, against the model of domination.

The president then -- and this he said himself, he said: "I have come to speak directly to the populations in the Middle East, to tell them that my country wants peace."

That's true. If we walk in the streets of the Bronx, if we walk around New York, Washington, San Diego, in any city, San Antonio, San Francisco, and we ask individuals, the citizens of the United States, what does this country want? Does it want peace? They'll say yes.

But the government doesn't want peace. The government of the United States doesn't want peace. It wants to exploit its system of exploitation, of pillage, of hegemony through war.

It wants peace. But what's happening in Iraq? What happened in Lebanon? In Palestine? What's happening? What's happened over the last 100 years in Latin America and in the world? And now threatening Venezuela -- new threats against Venezuela, against Iran?

He spoke to the people of Lebanon. Many of you, he said, have seen how your homes and communities were caught in the crossfire. How cynical can you get? What a capacity to lie shamefacedly.

The bombs in Beirut with millimetric precision? Is this crossfire?

He's thinking of a western, when people would shoot from the hip and somebody would be caught in the crossfire.

This is imperialist, fascist, assassin, genocidal, the empire and Israel firing on the people of Palestine and Lebanon. That is what happened. And now we hear, "We're suffering because we see homes destroyed.'

The president of the United States came to talk to the peoples -- to the peoples of the world. He came to say -- I brought some documents with me, because this morning I was reading some statements, and I see that he talked to the people of Afghanistan, the people of Lebanon, the people of Iran. And he addressed all these peoples directly.

And you can wonder, just as the president of the United States addresses those peoples of the world, what would those peoples of the world tell him if they were given the floor? What would they have to say?

And I think I have some inkling of what the peoples of the south, the oppressed people think. They would say, "Yankee imperialist, go home." I think that is what those people would say if they were given the microphone and if they could speak with one voice to the American imperialists.

And that is why, Madam President, my colleagues, my friends, last year we came here to this same hall as we have been doing for the past eight years, and we said something that has now been confirmed -- fully, fully confirmed.

I don't think anybody in this room could defend the system. Let's accept -- let's be honest. The U.N. system, born after the Second World War, collapsed. It's worthless.

Oh, yes, it's good to bring us together once a year, see each other, make statements and prepare all kinds of long documents, and listen to good speeches, like Evo's yesterday, or President Lula's. Yes, it's good for that.

And there are a lot of speeches, and we've heard lots from the president of Sri Lanka, for instance, and the president of Chile.

But we, the assembly, have been turned into a merely deliberative organ. We have no power, no power to make any impact on the terrible situation in the world. And that is why Venezuela once again proposes, here, today, September 20th, that we re-establish the United Nations.

Last year, Madam, we made four modest proposals that we felt to be crucially important. We have to assume the responsibility, our heads of state, our ambassadors, our representatives, and we have to discuss it.

The first is expansion, and Lula talked about this yesterday right here: The Security Council’s expansion, both regarding its permanent and non-permanent categories. New developed and developing countries, the Third World, must be given access as new permanent members. That's step one.

Second, effective methods to address and resolve world conflicts, transparent decisions.

Point three, the immediate suppression -- and that is something everyone's calling for -- of the anti-democratic mechanism known as the veto, the veto on decisions of the Security Council.

Let me give you a recent example. The immoral veto of the United States allowed the Israelis, with impunity, to destroy Lebanon. Right in front of all of us as we stood there watching, a resolution in the council was prevented.

Fourthly, we have to strengthen, as we've always said, the role and the powers of the secretary general of the United Nations.

Yesterday, the secretary general practically gave us his speech of farewell. And he recognized that over the last 10 years, things have just gotten more complicated; hunger, poverty, violence, human rights violations have just worsened. That is the tremendous consequence of the collapse of the United Nations system and American hegemonistic pretensions.

Madam , Venezuela a few years ago decided to wage this battle within the United Nations by recognizing the United Nations, as members of it that we are, and lending it our voice, our thinking.

Our voice is an independent voice to represent the dignity and the search for peace and the reformulation of the international system; to denounce persecution and aggression of hegemonistic forces on the planet.

This is how Venezuela has presented itself. Bolivar's home has sought a nonpermanent seat on the Security Council.

Let's see. Well, there's been an open attack by the U.S. government, an immoral attack, to try and prevent Venezuela from being freely elected to a post in the Security Council.

The imperium is afraid of truth, is afraid of independent voices. It calls us extremists, but they are the extremists.

And I would like to thank all the countries that have kindly announced their support for Venezuela, even though the ballot is a secret one and there's no need to announce things.

But since the imperium has attacked, openly, they strengthened the convictions of many countries. And their support strengthens us.

Mercosur, as a bloc, has expressed its support, our brothers in Mercosur. Venezuela, with Brazil, Argentina, Paraguay, Uruguay, is a full member of Mercosur.

And many other Latin American countries, CARICOM, Bolivia have expressed their support for Venezuela. The Arab League, the full Arab League has voiced its support. And I am immensely grateful to the Arab world, to our Arab brothers, our Caribbean brothers, the African Union. Almost all of Africa has expressed its support for Venezuela and countries such as Russia or China and many others.

I thank you all warmly on behalf of Venezuela, on behalf of our people, and on behalf of the truth, because Venezuela, with a seat on the Security Council, will be expressing not only Venezuela's thoughts, but it will also be the voice of all the peoples of the world, and we will defend dignity and truth.

Over and above all of this, Madam President, I think there are reasons to be optimistic. A poet would have said "helplessly optimistic," because over and above the wars and the bombs and the aggressive and the preventive war and the destruction of entire peoples, one can see that a new era is dawning.

As Silvio Rodriguez says, the era is giving birth to a heart. There are alternative ways of thinking. There are young people who think differently. And this has already been seen within the space of a mere decade. It was shown that the end of history was a totally false assumption, and the same was shown about Pax Americana and the establishment of the capitalist neo-liberal world. It has been shown, this system, to generate mere poverty. Who believes in it now?

What we now have to do is define the future of the world. Dawn is breaking out all over. You can see it in Africa and Europe and Latin America and Oceania. I want to emphasize that optimistic vision.

We have to strengthen ourselves, our will to do battle, our awareness. We have to build a new and better world.

Venezuela joins that struggle, and that's why we are threatened. The U.S. has already planned, financed and set in motion a coup in Venezuela, and it continues to support coup attempts in Venezuela and elsewhere.

President Michelle Bachelet reminded us just a moment ago of the horrendous assassination of the former foreign minister, Orlando Letelier.

And I would just add one thing: Those who perpetrated this crime are free. And that other event where an American citizen also died were American themselves. They were CIA killers, terrorists.

And we must recall in this room that in just a few days there will be another anniversary. Thirty years will have passed from this other horrendous terrorist attack on the Cuban plane, where 73 innocents, in a Cubana de Aviacion airliner, died.

And where is the biggest terrorist of this continent who took the responsibility for blowing up the plane? He spent a few years in jail in Venezuela. Thanks to CIA and then government officials, he was allowed to escape, and he lives here in this country, protected by the government.

And he was convicted. He has confessed to his crime. But the U.S. government has double standards. It protects terrorism when it wants to.

And this is to say that Venezuela is fully committed to combating terrorism and violence. And we are one of the people who are fighting for peace.

Luis Posada Carriles is the name of that terrorist who is protected here. And other tremendously corrupt people who escaped from Venezuela are also living here under protection: a group that bombed various embassies, that assassinated people during the coup. They kidnapped me and they were going to kill me, but I think God reached down and our people came out into the streets and the army was too, and so I'm here today.

But these people who led that coup are here today in this country protected by the American government. And I accuse the American government of protecting terrorists and of having a completely cynical discourse.

We mentioned Cuba. Yes, we were just there a few days ago. We just came from there happily.

And there you see another era born. The Summit of the 15, the Summit of the Nonaligned, adopted a historic resolution. This is the outcome document. Don't worry, I'm not going to read it.

But you have a whole set of resolutions here that were adopted after open debate in a transparent matter -- more than 50 heads of state. Havana was the capital of the south for a few weeks, and we have now launched, once again, the group of the nonaligned with new momentum.

And if there is anything I could ask all of you here, my companions, my brothers and sisters, it is to please lend your good will to lend momentum to the Nonaligned Movement for the birth of the new era, to prevent hegemony and prevent further advances of imperialism.

And as you know, Fidel Castro is the president of the nonaligned for the next three years, and we can trust him to lead the charge very efficiently.

Unfortunately they thought, "Oh, Fidel was going to die." But they're going to be disappointed because he didn't. And he's not only alive, he's back in his green fatigues, and he's now presiding the nonaligned.

So, my dear colleagues, Madam President, a new, strong movement has been born, a movement of the south. We are men and women of the south.

With this document, with these ideas, with these criticisms, I'm now closing my file. I'm taking the book with me. And, don't forget, I'm recommending it very warmly and very humbly to all of you.

We want ideas to save our planet, to save the planet from the imperialist threat. And hopefully in this very century, in not too long a time, we will see this, we will see this new era, and for our children and our grandchildren a world of peace based on the fundamental principles of the United Nations, but a renewed United Nations.

And maybe we have to change location. Maybe we have to put the United Nations somewhere else; maybe a city of the south. We've proposed Venezuela.

You know that my personal doctor had to stay in the plane. The chief of security had to be left in a locked plane. Neither of these gentlemen was allowed to arrive and attend the U.N. meeting. This is another abuse and another abuse of power on the part of the Devil. It smells of sulfur here, but God is with us and I embrace you all.

May God bless us all. Good day to you.

den_pl
09-21-2006, 09:38 AM
Powerful Speech !

l8braker
09-21-2006, 09:40 AM
Nice to see Chavez taking advantage of the US' free speech, something he doesn't allow in his country.

Pond scum.

Toma
09-21-2006, 09:49 AM
Originally posted by l8braker
Nice to see Chavez taking advantage of the US' free speech, something he doesn't allow in his country.

Pond scum.
really?? wow, you are brilliant ;) Free speech is allowed. Outside control of toruble makers is not...

He was FREELY elected, and FREE speech is allowed. Coerced and bribed groups are not allowed..... you know... the terrorists that the US hires to undermine a legit government.... they are tossed in Jail or deported. At least they get a trial :poosie:

Toma
09-21-2006, 09:53 AM
And we must recall in this room that in just a few days there will be another anniversary. Thirty years will have passed from this other horrendous terrorist attack on the Cuban plane, where 73 innocents, in a Cubana de Aviacion airliner, died.

And where is the biggest terrorist of this continent who took the responsibility for blowing up the plane? He spent a few years in jail in Venezuela. Thanks to CIA and then government officials, he was allowed to escape, and he lives here in this country (the US), protected by the government.

And he was convicted. He has confessed to his crime. But the U.S. government has double standards. It protects terrorism when it wants to.

nadroj23
09-21-2006, 09:53 AM
Originally posted by Toma
really?? wow, you are brilliant ;) Free speech is allowed. Outside control of toruble makers is not...

He was FREELY elected, and FREE speech is allowed. Coerced and bribed groups are not allowed..... you know... the terrorists that the US hires to undermine a legit government.... they are tossed in Jail or deported. At least they get a trial :poosie:

huh? statement or fact?

nadroj23
09-21-2006, 09:55 AM
Originally posted by Toma



source?

Sprinter
09-21-2006, 10:04 AM
Originally posted by Toma

the terrorists that the US hires to undermine a legit government.... they are tossed in Jail or deported.

Toma should write a book on conspiracy theories

b_t
09-21-2006, 10:11 AM
Originally posted by Sprinter


Toma should write a book on conspiracy theories

his book would be so huge it could only be adequately described as a bible.

NGRPLZ.NET
09-21-2006, 10:13 AM
HAHAAHAHAH who is this Toman guy? WOW, tin foil hat time for this clown!

Did anyone actually read all of that?

Toma
09-21-2006, 10:19 AM
Originally posted by NGRPLZ.NET
HAHAAHAHAH who is this Toman guy? WOW, tin foil hat time for this clown!

Did anyone actually read all of that?
Yeah, it takes at least grade 3 I think to get through that whole UN speech he made. Very well spoken I thought.

And this Toma "clown"?? lol.... :nut:

yellowsnow
09-21-2006, 10:23 AM
does toma have an actual job? or are u just researching conspiracy theories all day? :)

good speech though

Toma
09-21-2006, 10:26 AM
Originally posted by yellowsnow
does toma have an actual job? or are u just researching conspiracy theories all day? :)

good speech though
It was a very well thought out speech. I have proposed his exact ideas on how to improve the UN as well, and that is exactly what it needs to function as it should. But that would allow for resolutions and enforcement against the US and Israel etc, and that of course is not acceptable to the US.... so.... uhm... yeah.

NGRPLZ.NET
09-21-2006, 10:54 AM
Originally posted by Toma

Yeah, it takes at least grade 3 I think to get through that whole UN speech he made. Very well spoken I thought.

And this Toma "clown"?? lol.... :nut: Well, you know you've gained notoriety on a website when; after my first post in the current events section, I get a PM from another member warning me not to pay attention to you. Congrats on your internet stardom.

syeve
09-21-2006, 11:13 AM
I dont think you should ignore Toma...its like anything else in life, listen to both sides, filter the bull shit and form your opinion.

I dont ignore Toma, I think he has a good giggle getting everyone so worked up.

When it comes down to it, Toma is a Canadian, he takes advantage of all the great things most of us take for granted and assume will be there always...difference being Toma condems foreign policy with "western" interests in mind.

Problem being, cant have one without the other (unless you live in lala land)

collectskulls
09-21-2006, 04:51 PM
http://www.centerforsecuritypolicy.org/What_to_Do.pdf

Toma
09-21-2006, 04:54 PM
Article from Greg Palast... BBC TV, and Guardian UK. Great article and background....


Last June, on Page One of the San Francisco Chronicle, an Associated Press photo of a mass of demonstrators carried the following caption:

"TENS OF THOUSANDS OF VENEZUELANS OPPOSED TO PRESIDENT HUGO CHAVEZ..."

The caption let us know this South American potentate was a killer, an autocrat, and the people of his nation wanted him out. The caption continued: "[Venezuelans] marched Saturday to demand his resignation and punishment for those responsible for 17 deaths during a coup in April. 'Chavez leave now!' read a huge banner."

There was no actual story in the Chronicle -- South America simply isn't worth wasting words on -- just the photo and caption. But the Chronicle knew no story was needed. Venezuelans hated their terrible president, and all you needed was this photo to prove it.

And I could confirm the large protests. I'd recently returned from Caracas and watched 100,000 march against President Chavez. I'd filmed them for BBC Television London.

But I also filmed this: a larger march, easily over 200,000 Venezuelans marching in support of their president, Chavez.

That picture, of the larger pro-Chavez march, did not appear in a single U.S. newspaper. The pro-Chavez marchers weren't worth a mention.

By the next month, when the New York Times printed a photo of anti-Chavez marchers, they had metastasized. The Times reported that 600,000 had protested against Chavez.

Once again, the larger pro-Chavez demonstrations were, as they say in Latin America, "disappeared." I guess they didn't fit the print.

Look at the Chronicle/AP photo of the anti-Chavez marchers in Venezuela. Note their color. White.

And not just any white. A creamy rich white.

I interviewed them and recorded in this order: a banker in high heels and push-up bra; an oil industry executive (same outfit); and a plantation owner who rode to Caracas in a silver Jaguar.

And the color of the pro-Chavez marchers? Dark brown. Brown and round as cola nuts -- just like their hero, their President Chavez. They wore an unvarying uniform of jeans and T-shirts.

Let me explain.

For five centuries, Venezuela has been run by a minority of very white people, pure-blood descendants of the Spanish conquistadors. To most of the 80 percent of Venezuelans who are brown, Hugo Chavez is their Nelson Mandela, the man who will smash the economic and social apartheid that has kept the dark-skinned millions stacked in cardboard houses in the hills above Caracas while the whites live in high-rise splendor in the city center. Chavez, as one white Caracas reporter told me with a sneer, gives them bricks and milk, and so they vote for him.

Why am I explaining the basics of Venezuela to you? If you watched BBC TV, or Canadian Broadcasting, you'd know all this stuff. But if you read the New York Times, you'll only know that President Chavez is an "autocrat," a "ruinous demagogue," and a "would-be dictator," who resigned when he recognized his unpopularity.

Odd phrasings -- "dictator" and "autocrat" -- to describe Chavez, who was elected by a landslide majority (56 percent) of the voters. Unlike our President.

On April 12, 2002, Chavez resigned his presidency It said so, right there in the paper -- every major newspaper in the USA, every single one. Apparently, to quote the New York Times, Chavez recognized that he was unpopular, his time was up: "With yesterday's resignation of President Hugo Chavez, Venezuelan democracy is no longer threatened by a would-be dictator."

Problem was, the "resignation" story was a fabulous fib, a phantasmagoric fabrication. In fact, the President of Venezuela had been kidnapped at gunpoint and bundled off by helicopter from the presidential palace. He had not resigned; he never resigned; and one of his captors (who secretly supported Chavez) gave him a cell-phone from which he called and confirmed to friends and family that he remained alive -- and still president.

Working for the Guardian and the BBC, I was able within hours of the kidnapping to reach key government people in Venezuela to confirm that this "resignation" factoid was just hoodoo nonsense.

But it was valuable nonsense to the U.S. State Department. The faux resignation gave the new U.S.-government-endorsed Venezuelan leaders the pretense of legitimacy -- Chavez had resigned; this was a legal change of government, not a coup d'etat. (The Organization of American States bars recognition of governments who come to power through violence.) Had the coup leaders not bungled their operation -- the coup collapsed within 48 hours -- or if they had murdered Chavez, we would never have known the truth.

The U.S. papers got it dead wrong -- but how? Who was the source of this "resignation" lie? I asked a U.S. reporter why American news media had reported this nonsense as stone fact without checking. The reply was that it came from a reliable source: "We got it from the State Department."

Oh.

"He's crazy," shouts a protester about President Chavez on one broadcast. And if you watched the 60 Minutes interview with Chavez, you saw a snippet of a lengthy conversation -- a few selective seconds, actually -- which, out of context, did made Chavez look loony.

In the old Soviet Union, dissidents were packed off to insane asylums to silence and discredit them. In our democracy we have a more subtle -- and more effective -- means of silencing and discrediting dissidents. Television, radio, and print press obligingly sequester enemies of the state in the media's madhouse. In this way, Bush critic Rep. Cynthia McKinney became "loony" (see "The Screwing of Cynthia McKinney"); Chavez a mad "autocrat."

It's the electronic loony bin. You no longer hear what they have to say because you've been told by images, by repetition, and you've already dismissed their words ... if by some chance their words break through the television Berlin Wall.

Try it: Do a Google or Lexis search on the words Chavez and autocrat.

For who is the autocrat? Today, there are hundreds of people held in detention without charges in George Bush's United States. In Venezuela, there are none.

This is not about Venezuela but about the Virtual Venezuela, created for you by America's news wardens. The escape routes are guarded.

January 5, 2003, New York City. Picked up bagels and the Sunday Times on Delancey Street. Looks like that s.o.b. Chavez is at it again: Here was a big picture of a half-dozen people lying on the ground. The Times story read: "Protesters shielded themselves from tear gas during an anti- government rally on Friday in Caracas, Venezuela. In the 33rd day of a national strike, several protesters were shot."

That was it -- the entire story of Venezuela for the Paper of Record.

Maybe size doesn't matter. But this does: Even this itty-bitty story is a steaming hot bag of mendacity. Yes, two people were shot dead -- those in the pro-Chavez march.

I'd be wrong to say that every U.S. paper repeated the Times sloppy approach. Elsewhere, you could see a photo of the big pro-Chavez march and a photo of the "Chavista" widow placed within an explanatory newswire story. Interestingly, the fuller and correct story ran in an outlet that's none too friendly to Chavez: El Diario, New York City's oldest Spanish-language newspaper.

Lesson: If you want to get accurate news in the United States, you might want to learn a language other than English.

Friday, January 3, 2003. The New York Times ran a long "News Analysis: Venezuela Outlook." Four experts were quoted. For balance, two of them don't like Chavez, while the other two despise him.

The Times reporter wrote that "the president says he will stay in power." "In power?" What a strange phrase for an elected official. Having myself spoken with Chavez, it did not sound like him. He indicated he would stay "in office" -- quite a different inference than "in power." But then, the Times' phrasing isn't in quotes.

That's because Chavez never said it.

eljefe
09-21-2006, 05:19 PM
good read

collectskulls
09-21-2006, 05:20 PM
April 14: Eighteen congressmen in Venezuela, members of the Chavez-supporting party Movement of the Fifth Republic (MVR), are pushing to condemn political activism with harsh jail sentences.

The 18 are some of the most protested pro-Chavez government officials and have possibly had a hard time going to lunch or traveling by plane. The revolutionaries are obviously disturbed and do not tolerate the sounds of cups and pans against tableware, the symbol of protest in Venezuela.

The articles read “any kind of threat against a government official or civil servant … to intimidate him, pressure him to stop or continue doing something related to his post will be punished with jail sentences ranging from one to three years or two to four in the case of higher government official.”

Incitement to acts that violate the public order through the media or any other medium will also be punished with sentences of up to 10 years, according to a second article. Worse yet, incitement to hatred of government officials will face sentences of three to six years.

If the crimes are considered provokers of stoppages of food distribution or oil production, the verdict of treason to the nation could be applied and punished with up to 10 years in years in prison or submitted to military tribunal.

The articles are written so vaguely that the line between a criminal act and any kind political activity is blurred, leaving the decision to incriminate or not entirely to the judges’ discretion. It is well known that the Supreme Courts of Justice in Venezuela are not an entirely independent body and that President Hugo Chavez is calling for expanding the number of appointed judges in the hope to secure a majority that will cater to his political goals.

The proposal came directly from the Presidential Palace to Congress, obviating the usual procedure that rules the initial approval of the Judicial Commission in the legislative body, signaling weakened support for the president in what used to be his territory.

It is unpredictable how congressmen will vote in relation to the project, especially in view of the clear applicability of the law to the president himself, who is the main instigator or violence and hatred. It is hoped that congressmen who have turned to the opposition ranks will not try to vote against Chavez by approving the law.

http://www.newsmax.com/archives/articles/2003/4/3/152805.shtml

Hugo Chavez helps drug barons, backs the Taliban, jails his enemies . . . and hates the middle class. Meet Red Ken's new best friend
By Jonathan Foreman | The Daily Mail
VENEZUELAN President Hugo Chavez was met by a welcome rally of supporters yesterday at the beginning of a two-day visit. Today he will have lunch with London mayor Ken Livingstone and meetings with Leftwing MPs and trade unions. The authoritarian South American has become an icon for the Left - but the truth is that he has exploited his country's oil wealth to launch an onslaught on democracy.

LONDON'S mayor, Ken Livingstone, has befriended some unlikely and unpleasant people over the years, from the Provisional IRA to enthusiasts for Islamist suicide bombing.

But few are as bizarre as Hugo Chavez, the beret-wearing, coup-launching President of Venezuela, whom he is hosting on his current two-day visit to Britain.

Chavez has hit global headlines by supporting Iran's dreams of building nuclear weapons, by befriending North Korea, by subsidising Castro's creaking but still vicious Cuban dictatorship, by cosying up to the Taliban - after September 11 - and by offering a haven to Colombia's narco-terrorists.

In 2001 Chavez paid state visits to Libya, Iran and Iraq, where he was feted by Saddam Hussein. In fact, name a nasty anti-Western regime that supports terrorism or seeks nuclear weapons - or both - and Chavez has probably come out in its favour.

He has also praised Zimbabwe's racist dictator Robert Mugabe as 'a true freedom fighter', called Tony Blair an 'ally of Hitler' for his alliance with George W. Bush, and urged the 'return' of the Falkland Islands to Argentina.

He has threatened the Dutch- owned islands of Aruba and Curacao, and attacked Halloween as an American plot to make his people afraid. At one point he called the terrorist known as Carlos the Jackal 'the greatest living Venezuelan'.

Chavez, 51, has become the latest addition to the romantic Leftwing pantheon that includes Che Guevara, Fidel Castro and the Sandinista boss Daniel Ortega - murderers all. Chavez himself is actually more like Juan and Eva Peron of Argentina in his populism and in the clever way he has turned Venezuela's democracy into a virtual one party state.

In doing so, he has also endeared himself to Left-wingers abroad in one other significant way: with an all-out war on the middle class.

Though democratically elected in 1998, this former army colonel has personal control of the executive, the judiciary, armed forces, education and the oil industry (he indirectly controls the Press through intimidation and self-censorship) all but ensuring his continuation in power for years to come.

BESIDES the fact that it's the world's fifth-largest oil producer (the biggest outside the Middle East), Venezuela has traditionally been more democratic, stable and prosperous than most Latin American countries. In 1971, it had a higher per capita income than Japan.

And unlike many countries in the region, it has - or had - a large middle class. This middle class continued to grow despite socialist policies followed in the Seventies when the oil industry was nationalised, and the shock to its economy when oil prices plunged during the Eighties and Nineties.

But under Chavez professionals, managers and executives have been sacked and replaced with political supporters or army officers. He actively foments popular hatred of the middle classes and upper classes, blaming them, along with America, capitalism and globalisation, for poverty and everything else that is wrong with the country.

Many middleclass people believe that this has contributed to the increase in already sky-high rates of violent crime, especially robbery and kidnapping.

Mass demonstrations and strikes have often been met with brutal violence.

Now business owners and shopkeepers are beginning to emigrate in huge numbers. Though sometimes officials make it hard for them to get passports, there are long lines outside the Spanish, British, U.S., Australian and Canadian consulates.

If his friends in the West think of him as a democrat then they are sorely mistaken.

He joined the army at 17 and while serving he founded his nationalist but Leftwing ' Bolivarian movement'. In 1992, Chavez and some of his army officer friends attempted a coup against the ruling social democratic party. It was a bloody failure and he ended up in prison.

Upon his release, he went into electoral politics at the head of his 'Movement Of The Fifth Republic'.

Its platform and his image - flamboyant, earthy and authentic - struck a chord with the country's poor and he was elected President.

Almost immediately, he called a constitutional convention and began the process of entrenching himself in power. He gave himself sweeping decree powers, abolished the Senate, lifted a ban on consecutive presidential terms and set up an electoral council that he packed with his own supporters.

He made 'lying' about the government a federal crime, and the President is allowed to suspend TV and radio broadcasts 'when it is deemed convenient to the nation'.

It is a criminal offence to insult or show disrespect to the President, other government figures and top military officers. The authorities decide for themselves if they have been 'insulted' or 'disrespected' and anyone convicted of this crime can go to prison for two years.

In 2002, Chavez sought to impose personal control of the country's largest and most successful company, the stateowned oil giant PDVSA. This company was a beacon of efficiency and responsibility in the country. When Chavez sought to impose new management on the company, its employees went on strike.

Chavez fired all of them. Then the country's trade unions called a general strike. More than a million people - mostly from the middle and prosperous working classes - demonstrated against Chavez. Mobs of armed Chavez supporters attacked the demonstrators and killed 17 people.

Then, in December 2002, the opposition shut down the country with another huge general strike that Chavez broke after two months using the army.

When the opposition campaigned for a referendum to depose Chavez, a list of all the 2.5million people who signed the referendum was put on the internet. Everyone on the list became subject to discrimination, ranging from being fired from their jobs to being denied passports.

CHAVEZ is also raising and training a millionandahalf-strong militia, recruited from the slums, supposedly to protect the country against a U.S. invasion, but in fact to create a military force totally loyal to the President.

It doesn't seem to matter to his supporters in Britain that he controls all parts of the government, with 500 top jobs in the hands of his army cronies.

Or that there are more than 200 political prisoners in the country, including a former member of the Venezuelan Confederation of Workers; that dissidents in the armed forces are threatened with death; or that private media organisations have been subject to violent attack by Chavez supporters, usually in the wake of criticism of his government.

If that weren't bad enough, Chavez has also whipped up anti-Jewish prejudice to reinforce his popularity. His police raided a Jewish school in the capital Caracas after one of his top prosecutors died in a car bombing.

But one of Chavez's nastiest and most irresponsible moves has been to offer a safe haven to narco-terrorists from neighbouring Colombia. This has infuriated the Colombians, who have fought a bloody, costly war against the cocaine cartels.

Like so many populist strongmen before him, Chavez has disguised his domestic dictatorship with a constant appeal to anti-Americanism. Of course, bashing America always wins a cheer in Latin America and from the Left around the world.

Here in Britain, it appears to excuse anything, even the flagrant attacks on democracy in a continent that has too little experience of it.

Source The Daily Mail. Originally published May 15, 2006, section ED 1ST 04; Pg. 27

http://www.vcrisis.com/index.php?content=pr/200605221141

collectskulls
09-21-2006, 05:24 PM
A few peeps on this site need to find new role models lol

Toma
09-21-2006, 05:32 PM
domestic dictatorship??

Funny how a guy ELECTED in FREE independadnlty bserved elections gets called a dictator. He won by a landslide.

Kudos for him for jailing the fuckers that the US buys out that cause all the shit.

He was kidnapped at gunpoint in 2002 by US paid and sponsored terrorists....

The US has attempted 3 and now a fourth coupe coming against him....

collectskulls
09-21-2006, 05:43 PM
Originally posted by Toma
domestic dictatorship??

Funny how a guy ELECTED in FREE independadnlty bserved elections gets called a dictator. He won by a landslide.

Kudos for him for jailing the fuckers that the US buys out that cause all the shit.

He was kidnapped at gunpoint in 2002 by US paid and sponsored terrorists....

The US has attempted 3 and now a fourth coupe coming against him....

The Prime minster of Thailand was also elected but he did pay the poor 500 baht to vote for him lmao

Toma
09-21-2006, 05:48 PM
Originally posted by collectskulls


The Prime minster of Thailand was also elected but he did pay the poor 500 baht to vote for him lmao
^^^^ ah ha... so this happened in Venezuala? Or are you just talking out your asshole again?

collectskulls
09-21-2006, 05:53 PM
Originally posted by Toma

^^^^ ah ha... so this happened in Venezuala? Or are you just talking out your asshole again?

LMAO Just stating that everything is not always as it seems.

But you are to busy looking at all the wrong people threw your rose colored glasses!

eljefe
09-21-2006, 06:00 PM
Sept 8, 2004, 09:58 pm
OAS Secretary-General César Gaviria and former U.S. President Jimmy Carter, the heads of the international election observer teams, urged the opposition to accept the preliminary results announced by the National Electoral Council (CNE), according to which just over 41 percent of voters chose the “Yes” option in favor of removing the Venezuelan leader. Their joint statement in a press conference surprised the opposition, who had previously seen them as allies—the U.S. had generously funded Pres. Chavez’s foes—and triggered furious reactions and insults from a spontaneous demonstration outside the hotel where the two election observer missions are staying.

Toma
09-21-2006, 06:00 PM
Originally posted by collectskulls


LMAO Just stating that everything is not always as it seems.

But you are to busy looking at all the wrong people threw your rose colored glasses! \
True... so Bush didn't win a majority, and he paid off the poor too?

el_fefes
09-21-2006, 06:01 PM
Some good things were said... but I don't understand why he would call Bush "the devil". It seems so out of place for a leader of a country. He could've called him out differently. "The Devil" it seems so childish. Oh well no publicity is bad publicity.

tapout
09-21-2006, 06:04 PM
Originally posted by eljefe
good read :werd:

ogpog
09-21-2006, 06:11 PM
Read this early this morning. It sucks Bush wasnt there to hear it. But the white house, in their usual fashion, followed up with "we will not dignify that with a response". Fuckin ass-tards.

wainr
09-21-2006, 08:10 PM
Originally posted by l8braker
Nice to see Chavez taking advantage of the US' free speech, something he doesn't allow in his country.

Pond scum.

Thats what I was thinking... I would like to see what would happen if a US leader was in another country and ran down thier leader... I am sure thier goons would be out in full force burning flags and chanting death threats.. :rolleyes:

Not saying I dont agree with some of the things he said but its funny how he says it in thier country. Where else could you do this other than the west.

el_fefes
09-21-2006, 08:51 PM
^ I think he would've said it regardlless of where the summit was held.

01RedDX
09-21-2006, 08:51 PM
.

el_fefes
09-21-2006, 08:59 PM
:werd: China's next

wainr
09-21-2006, 09:06 PM
Originally posted by el_fefes
^ I think he would've said it regardlless of where the summit was held.

Of course, because its about the leader of the US, everyone is on the Us hate wagon right now.

I am refering to the opposite happening... it would not.

el_fefes
09-21-2006, 09:18 PM
I see what you mean, sorry I misread your post. Bush has names some countries as the axis of evil (he wasn't in their country at the time but still). Pretty bad terminology as well.

Watcher
09-21-2006, 09:19 PM
Harper spoke to a full house at the UN today.

I doubt that was true for Chevez.
And even the ones that stayed didn't listen to Chavez.

el_fefes
09-21-2006, 09:22 PM
Your point? Were you there?

wainr
09-21-2006, 09:23 PM
Originally posted by el_fefes
I see what you mean, sorry I misread your post. Bush has names some countries as the axis of evil (he wasn't in their country at the time but still). Pretty bad terminology as well.

Very true, but it says alot about the US to allow someone to do this, you could not in many other countries. Especially those he labels as "axis of evil" countries. :D

Toma
09-21-2006, 10:41 PM
WTF?? Did someone hack your account?? :nut:


Originally posted by 01RedDX
Hate to say it, but Hugo Chavez is right. He may be on the far left of the spectrum, but that is not nearly as frightening as what this extremist American government stands for. Let's not kid ourselves, they are nothing short of crazed hegemonistic extremists. United States has had 43 presidents, some good, some not so good, but never anything like this administration.

With all the ties I have to America, it is very painful for me to watch it succumb to this poison. I hate to watch it slowly stagnate and rot from the inside, with most of the people either too complacent or just hoping to "ride it out." But the damage is too great, and with these religious zealots at the helm we may see the demise of America as we know her in our lifetime. :nut:

Toma
09-21-2006, 11:01 PM
One way the US ensures cooperation ;)
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/5369198.stm

wainr
09-22-2006, 12:24 AM
Originally posted by Toma
WTF?? Did someone hack your account?? :nut:

:nut:



:rofl:

eljefe
09-22-2006, 05:02 AM
Originally posted by Toma
WTF?? Did someone hack your account?? :nut:

:nut:

ahahahaha :rofl:

Midnight_Blue
09-22-2006, 08:23 AM
Original Post Removed. (Please read the Forum Rules and Terms of Use (http://forums.beyond.ca/articles.php?action=data&item=1) before posting again, or risk getting banned).

ogpog
09-22-2006, 08:30 AM
Originally posted by Toma
One way the US ensures cooperation ;)
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/5369198.stm

So the states has to threaten people to form alliances now? Bunch of cowards.

Watcher
09-22-2006, 08:49 AM
The title of this thread should be "a stoned chevez goes to the UN"

01RedDX
09-22-2006, 11:31 AM
.

Maxt
09-23-2006, 10:58 AM
The rocket scientist in question , in action....
I see why you hold this guy in such regard Toma, he is brain dead...

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/09/22/nyregion/22chomsky.html?ex=1316577600&en=0f1d2fa95dcbbd55&ei=5090&partner=rssuserland&emc=rss

Chevez is playing the same political game both Castro, and even here, Chretien used to cover the failings of their own administrations to truly govern the countries in a progressive manner. And that is, blame the US for everything, appear to be the hero at home, do nothing, absolutley nothing,limit democratic action that would speed your removal and stuff your pockets at the same time, at the expense of your people.

googe
09-23-2006, 11:54 AM
http://www.thepeoplesvoice.org/cgi-bin/blogs/media/chavezun_65.JPG:thumbsup:

i suppose chomsky is braindead/tinfoil hat too...

Maxt
09-23-2006, 05:48 PM
Chomsky is the Grand Wizard of the tin foil hat club... Moore is the klabee,palast is the kligrap, and Toma is jockeying for the position of Kleagle.
The problem with Chomsky is facts dont add up to reality, and when he paints himself into a corner, he just starts making shit up on the fly.. I know Toma doesn like the writing that show Chomsky takes creative license with history, but at least they are independently backed up outside of the contradicting writers influence, unlike Chomsky, who when painted into a corner, merely quotes some of his own past rhetoric, and tries to pass it off as fact... Repeating lies does not make it true...
However chomsky is great fuel for conspiracy theorists, who like to believe the worst in their fellow people..

Toma
09-24-2006, 09:57 AM
Max hates Chomsky. He can't stand anyone smart, educated, awarded, and expecially a JEW that speaks the truth. Kills Max that someone can be intelligent and be so indisputable in his facts.

For those that did not know, Chomsky WAS involved in the Zionist movement in his youth, saw the error of his ways, AND the truth about the US, Israel and "fellow" zionists.

Max posted two things in the past to try and "discredit" Chomsky. One was ALL internet bullshit, none of which was true (ie, the type of stuff you find by looking in google, then copy and pasting it without checking the source).....outright lies, like he charges some outragous amount for his talks (when they are usually free, or he requests a donation to charity)... or irrellevent drivle, like Chomsky has a net worth of 2 million :dunno: forgetting that Chomsky has owned a house in San Fran for 30 years, and most his "net worth" is there. The rest is derived from his salary at MIT, and his books (most proceeds also going to Charity)....or that he is a holocaust denier, when what he argued was for the right of an actual denier to speak. etc etc...

The second was a colleciton of supposed Chomsky errors.... Most of which were non coherent arguements, stuff taken out of context, and outright fabrications. I went through a handfull of the arguements, and they were garbage (it was too long to bother with considering the blatant lies, errors, and misconstrued information) . You would think someone credible would put together a impeccable list... not some grasping at straws BS.

Toma
09-24-2006, 01:35 PM
hahahaha.... so it's started ;)

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/5375144.stm

googe
09-24-2006, 02:24 PM
Originally posted by Maxt
Chomsky is the Grand Wizard of the tin foil hat club... Moore is the klabee,palast is the kligrap, and Toma is jockeying for the position of Kleagle.
The problem with Chomsky is facts dont add up to reality, and when he paints himself into a corner, he just starts making shit up on the fly.. I know Toma doesn like the writing that show Chomsky takes creative license with history, but at least they are independently backed up outside of the contradicting writers influence, unlike Chomsky, who when painted into a corner, merely quotes some of his own past rhetoric, and tries to pass it off as fact... Repeating lies does not make it true...
However chomsky is great fuel for conspiracy theorists, who like to believe the worst in their fellow people..

oh boy :rolleyes:

think i best withdraw ;)

wainr
09-24-2006, 04:11 PM
Originally posted by Toma
Max hates Chomsky. He can't stand anyone smart, educated, awarded, and expecially a JEW that speaks the truth. Kills Max that someone can be intelligent and be so indisputable in his facts.

For those that did not know, Chomsky WAS involved in the Zionist movement in his youth, saw the error of his ways, AND the truth about the US, Israel and "fellow" zionists.

Max posted two things in the past to try and "discredit" Chomsky. One was ALL internet bullshit, none of which was true (ie, the type of stuff you find by looking in google, then copy and pasting it without checking the source).....outright lies, like he charges some outragous amount for his talks (when they are usually free, or he requests a donation to charity)... or irrellevent drivle, like Chomsky has a net worth of 2 million :dunno: forgetting that Chomsky has owned a house in San Fran for 30 years, and most his "net worth" is there. The rest is derived from his salary at MIT, and his books (most proceeds also going to Charity)....or that he is a holocaust denier, when what he argued was for the right of an actual denier to speak. etc etc...

The second was a colleciton of supposed Chomsky errors.... Most of which were non coherent arguements, stuff taken out of context, and outright fabrications. I went through a handfull of the arguements, and they were garbage (it was too long to bother with considering the blatant lies, errors, and misconstrued information) . You would think someone credible would put together a impeccable list... not some grasping at straws BS.

Oh c'mon you of all people... you always preach how people should not take everything at face value, or is that only from sane people? :D

Everyone has thier own agenda, this nut included.

googe
09-24-2006, 04:30 PM
Originally posted by wainr


Everyone has thier own agenda, this nut included.

assuming you mean a self-serving agenda...and if thats how right-wing conservatives think, its no wonder the world is in its current state. is it so hard to buy that someone might actually be looking to improve the worlds situation rather than capitalize on it?

riceeater
09-24-2006, 05:25 PM
i think Jon Stewart put it best on the daily show... who the fuck do you think is gonna take you serious when you come out rambling on about the devil, and the smell of dead people... that's fuckin retarded, and there is no wonder that everyone treats him as a joke for it

A3GTiVR6SC
09-24-2006, 06:17 PM
Originally posted by riceeater
i think Jon Stewart put it best on the daily show... who the fuck do you think is gonna take you serious when you come out rambling on about the devil, and the smell of dead people... that's fuckin retarded, and there is no wonder that everyone treats him as a joke for it


:werd:

wainr
09-24-2006, 07:48 PM
Originally posted by googe


is it so hard to buy that someone might actually be looking to improve the worlds situation rather than capitalize on it?

No... but it goes both ways, thats my point.