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New2Talon
10-09-2006, 01:41 AM
Ive read the octane sticky but was still wondering how other gas stations compare upto mohawks 94octane. That mowhawk is supposed to have more ethanol in it to give it the extra octane, but all that extra ethanol isnt always useful (for power/boosing purposes)

someone posted that some gas stations octance rating isnt as accurate as they say it is (post its 91 but only reads 89). like how accurate is shells 91 octane compare to other stations octane (co-op, superstore, centex, fas gas, petro etc)

what stations are the most accurate?

is shells 91 better than mowhawks 94, even though mowhawks rating is "better", is the gas better?

A790
10-09-2006, 09:44 AM
Okay, for a station to advertise 89 octane it must be AT LEAST 89. If it were tested lower than 89 and they advertised 89 they face HUGE penalties.

As well, the 94 octane is really only useful if you can make use of the extra octane. Shells 91 Octane gas is pretty potent stuff, and I ran my Silvia at 11psi on it without any problems. If I ever boosed more I used 94 octane, but that's only because I didn't have all the required equiprmenet to safely run 11+ psi on 91 octane.

drox
10-09-2006, 11:17 AM
Id imagine theyd get in a whole wack of shit if they were selling gas that didnt meet the octane grade on the pump.

I dont like shell. I had to tear apart my bike, take the carbs off, disassemble & clean every thing because they had shit in their tanks and it clogged my jets. Fucking pain in the ass.

SilverBoost
10-09-2006, 11:54 AM
I run pretty much only SHELL now if I can , and my car runs better than it ever did. I used to run only Petrocan - that was back east though, and my fule filter in my pump was fucked when I checked it after very little time. But who knows, it's all different. Depends even on the station itself sometimes.... forget about the brand.

I tried using Mohawk 94 fro a while, but really I saw no benefit boosting with it and it seemd to give me less mileage/gallon so I stopped buying it.

But really who can tell.... it's not like we all have the ability to do true fuel test analysis on what we use..... it's the equivalent of the butt dyno. Sometimes you gotta use your gut instinct about this stuff because what else do you have really. :)

A2VR6
10-09-2006, 11:57 AM
Originally posted by SilverBoost
I run pretty much only SHELL now if I can , and my car runs better than it ever did.

:werd: I get upwards of 50 km's a tank more with shell than with any other place too.

Cruz
10-09-2006, 12:11 PM
Shell +1 :thumbsup:

...but their carwash sucks.

?????
10-09-2006, 12:18 PM
I've tried basically every station around me and CO-OP gas does it for me. Efficiency and my car runs better. I get 50+ km/tank compared to other stations but i think its only at the Beddington CO-OP station.

andyg16
10-09-2006, 01:05 PM
^^ :werd: I filled up my truck at the Co-Op in the NE right by Taradale and it ran much smoother then before :thumbsup:

New2Talon
10-09-2006, 07:50 PM
Originally posted by A790
Okay, for a station to advertise 89 octane it must be AT LEAST 89. If it were tested lower than 89 and they advertised 89 they face HUGE penalties.

As well, the 94 octane is really only useful if you can make use of the extra octane. Shells 91 Octane gas is pretty potent stuff, and I ran my Silvia at 11psi on it without any problems. If I ever boosed more I used 94 octane, but that's only because I didn't have all the required equiprmenet to safely run 11+ psi on 91 octane.


Well one of my co-workers used to be a manager at esso and she told me that if the pumps werent calibrated regularly then they could be off, usually lower than stated amount. (pump charges you for 30 litres/says you put in 30 litres, but if it isnt calibrated right you could only ACTUALLY end up with 25 litres)

I dont see how this is different than lower-than-posted octane readings.

Also, what do you call "required equipment" needed to boost past 11? I'm hoping to set the "hi" setting on my ebc to around 14-15 psi (currently run ~10-11 if ebc is on "low" setting or if ebc is off and im using WG)

Supa Dexta
10-09-2006, 07:55 PM
and theres always the sticker that says calibrated to 15'c.. what would be the difference if it were 0'c out? I wonder if you were to take a measuring cup in and see how close they actually are to a litre.. maybe we can write a letter to the news and they'll send a reporter out for the day to see who's screwin us... should have to be calibrated reg. with suprise inspections a reason to make them keep up on it... same as booze...

djayz
10-09-2006, 09:07 PM
^
that would be a great idea

im with co-op
ive tried different gas stations such as shell petrocan esso coop works fine plus i get the discount.

a friend of mine says the vpower at shell is awesome i might try it out if it makes any difference ill run a tank of that shit through every couple weeks just to clean things up a bit.

its all personal preference tho. Go around and try different gas stations different companies and see which one suites your car the best.

barbarian
10-09-2006, 09:10 PM
Originally posted by Supa Dexta
and theres always the sticker that says calibrated to 15'c.. what would be the difference if it were 0'c out? I wonder if you were to take a measuring cup in and see how close they actually are to a litre.. maybe we can write a letter to the news and they'll send a reporter out for the day to see who's screwin us... should have to be calibrated reg. with suprise inspections a reason to make them keep up on it... same as booze...

Higher density @ lower temperature, you should get more.

Gondi Stylez
10-09-2006, 11:49 PM
i use petro and superstore and im happy! plus u get money back :)

Mitsu3000gt
10-10-2006, 09:08 AM
I only use SHELL gas. I seem to hear so much good about it, and the V power stuff that I use was apparently developed with Ferrari haha. Another reason is that they give you Airmiles, instead of crap like "petro points."

Some manuals say not to use fuel with over a certain percentage of ethonol, which is how they raise the octane level usually. Husky 92 octane is 15% ethonol, and 91 octane I believe is 10%. Some manuals say not to use fuel with over 10% ethonol. I don't know what the 94 octane stuff is, nor do I know why they don't want you using ethonol.

atomic
10-10-2006, 09:40 AM
FYI, i have a pillar mounted wideband that datalogs and tuned for open loop so you know it's a static ammount of fuel . i see no difference in milleage or afr by running ethynol @ mohawk vs shell, etc.

Xtrema
10-10-2006, 11:06 AM
Originally posted by Mitsu3000gt
Some manuals say not to use fuel with over a certain percentage of ethonol, which is how they raise the octane level usually. Husky 92 octane is 15% ethonol, and 91 octane I believe is 10%. Some manuals say not to use fuel with over 10% ethonol. I don't know what the 94 octane stuff is, nor do I know why they don't want you using ethonol.

Nissan and other manufacturers doesn't recommend anything above 10% because of the material they used (fuel tank/line/injectors) are not rated to handle ethanol and may cause early deterioration of the fuel system. That's why they state that in the manual. Not that you couldn't but don't try to claim on warranty if you have engine problems and they find out you used more than 10%.

If you want to run large amount of ethanol, you'll have to buy a Flex Fuel vehicle. Nissan is coming out with E85 version of Armada and Titan is some markets next year.

Tik-Tok
10-10-2006, 11:21 AM
I use Shell 91 as well, but what pisses me off about any gas stations 91 octane is the amount of 87 you may be getting.

I mean when the person before you filled up with 87, all the fuel lines in the station leading up to that pump still has 87 octane in it, so when you push the 91 octane button, you'll be pumping 87 in for awhile first... I don't know where the valves are, but if their at the underground tank itself, you could be filling with quite a bit of 87 before that 91 starts flowing.

Then the next guy will who gets 87 will be getting 91 for awhile, that YOU paid for.

I try to only go to stations that have dedicated 91 pumps.

Lex350
10-10-2006, 12:42 PM
I use shell 91 as well...works great. I've stopped going to Esso. I used to fill up at the Esso on Mcleod near Glemore. My car doesn't like there gas - less performance and worse mpg.

sh0ko
10-10-2006, 12:46 PM
ive heard 94 is good for turbos though?! i fill up 94 in my mr2... should i say screw it and go to 92 or 91?!

Tik-Tok
10-10-2006, 12:48 PM
Originally posted by sh0ko
ive heard 94 is good for turbos though?! i fill up 94 in my mr2... should i say screw it and go to 92 or 91?!

94 is great for turbo's... if it's true 94 and not ethynal blend.

lint
10-10-2006, 03:45 PM
Originally posted by ?????
I've tried basically every station around me and CO-OP gas does it for me. Efficiency and my car runs better. I get 50+ km/tank compared to other stations but i think its only at the Beddington CO-OP station.

You use 91 octane for your Mazda 3? Is it boosted?

403Gemini
10-10-2006, 04:01 PM
i use 91 from petro can and havent had any problems :dunno:

?????
10-10-2006, 04:24 PM
Originally posted by lint


You use 91 octane for your Mazda 3? Is it boosted?

Talking about 91 octane huh? I was talking about 87. Maybe i should of read. :banghead:

CivicTunr
10-10-2006, 04:28 PM
ive tried the 94 octane from husky and it just made my car run lumpy, now i just stick to 91 octane from shell, never had a problem, except when the idiots on the 17th ave shell, dont know how to make the pumps work after 12. :guns:


just for all the people trying to save a buck, the cheapest gas, is out at the mac's/esso on old banff coach rd SW or 7ave SW
i cant remember because the roads switch up names, every block up there haha

lint
10-10-2006, 04:34 PM
Originally posted by ?????


Talking about 91 octane huh? I was talking about 87. Maybe i should of read. :banghead:

Topic went from different octanes at different gas stations to just different gas at different gas stations. Wasn't sure which you were talking about, but figured 91 in a Mazda 3 would be a waste of money. I stick with reg myself.

A790
10-10-2006, 04:47 PM
Originally posted by New2Talon



Well one of my co-workers used to be a manager at esso and she told me that if the pumps werent calibrated regularly then they could be off, usually lower than stated amount. (pump charges you for 30 litres/says you put in 30 litres, but if it isnt calibrated right you could only ACTUALLY end up with 25 litres)

I dont see how this is different than lower-than-posted octane readings.

Also, what do you call "required equipment" needed to boost past 11? I'm hoping to set the "hi" setting on my ebc to around 14-15 psi (currently run ~10-11 if ebc is on "low" setting or if ebc is off and im using WG)

If the pumprs are out of calibration you might be getting less gas, but that has no effect on the Octane rating at all.

Anyways, by required equipment I meant bigger injectors/intercooler/turbo itself. The air temp from the turbo to intake were high because I was boosting a lot on a small turbo... more octane combats the resulting detonation. That's why I never ran really high boost.

New2Talon
10-10-2006, 10:40 PM
Originally posted by A790


If the pumprs are out of calibration you might be getting less gas, but that has no effect on the Octane rating at all.

Anyways, by required equipment I meant bigger injectors/intercooler/turbo itself. The air temp from the turbo to intake were high because I was boosting a lot on a small turbo... more octane combats the resulting detonation. That's why I never ran really high boost.

I WAS talking about the amount of gas, not the octane, if the pump are out of calibration. I just dont see how badly calibrated pumps are differnent from falsely advertising the octane rating (your not getting what you pay for).

Im hoping to set it up for around 15psi on high boost. I know that higher octane levels retards denotation, thats why i am asking what the differences are out there between gas staions/octane ratings. I dont wanna be putting in in 94 from mowhawk, and still trying to run high boost, but because there is more ethanol in it you cant boost as high as on true 94 octane. (or the ethanol blended mix doesnt have the same benefits as ture 94 octane gas)

sh0ko
10-11-2006, 01:17 AM
i honestly thought my car ran better on 94 then 91 or 92... u could totally feel a difference.. i fill up at the bow trial husky and i heard its really good there and i havent had ANY complaints yet

dudeman
10-11-2006, 01:22 AM
for the hardcore, VP Racing fuels has a dealer in calgary. Get whatever you want, 105 even, just gotta dish out. fun for race day though.

jcrules99
10-11-2006, 01:27 AM
i find shell v-power to be the best for my prelude also, theres definitely a noticeable difference and i get at least 50+ extra km's per tank compared to esso and petro, no turbo though lol

LilDrunkenSmurf
10-11-2006, 10:36 AM
I use SHELL 91... Ran petro for a while, noticed a diff when I switched, but once my car got used to it (cleaned all the shit out) I haven't really noticed a diff... But then again I'm used to it. If I have to, I'll fill up at the closest chain gas station, but never at a family owned one, and I try my hardest for Shell. Never tried 94, can't justify it.

Cruz
10-11-2006, 11:33 AM
Originally posted by Tik-Tok
I use Shell 91 as well, but what pisses me off about any gas stations 91 octane is the amount of 87 you may be getting.

I mean when the person before you filled up with 87, all the fuel lines in the station leading up to that pump still has 87 octane in it, so when you push the 91 octane button, you'll be pumping 87 in for awhile first... I don't know where the valves are, but if their at the underground tank itself, you could be filling with quite a bit of 87 before that 91 starts flowing.

Then the next guy will who gets 87 will be getting 91 for awhile, that YOU paid for.

I try to only go to stations that have dedicated 91 pumps.

Good point. Never thought about it.

DoubleLP
10-11-2006, 11:47 AM
Originally posted by Tik-Tok
I use Shell 91 as well, but what pisses me off about any gas stations 91 octane is the amount of 87 you may be getting.

I mean when the person before you filled up with 87, all the fuel lines in the station leading up to that pump still has 87 octane in it, so when you push the 91 octane button, you'll be pumping 87 in for awhile first... I don't know where the valves are, but if their at the underground tank itself, you could be filling with quite a bit of 87 before that 91 starts flowing.

Then the next guy will who gets 87 will be getting 91 for awhile, that YOU paid for.

I try to only go to stations that have dedicated 91 pumps.

The valves are located at the bottom of the gas pump right at your feet....so the only parts that will 87 Octane before turning to 91 are the hose itself and about 2 more feet....so not that much to drastically change anything in the car because you will have 99% of your tank filled with 91 Octane.

Co-op, Superstore, Canadian Tire....they all use gas from the major guys such as Shell, Esso (Imperial), Petro-Canada, etc...

So the fuel you are using at the smaller stations is the same as the big guys. And if you are saving more money....I say go for it!

I personally use Shell 91 all the time. Never had any problems and I get Airmiles.

blitz
10-11-2006, 12:59 PM
Originally posted by New2Talon


I WAS talking about the amount of gas, not the octane, if the pump are out of calibration. I just dont see how badly calibrated pumps are differnent from falsely advertising the octane rating (your not getting what you pay for).

Im hoping to set it up for around 15psi on high boost. I know that higher octane levels retards denotation, thats why i am asking what the differences are out there between gas staions/octane ratings. I dont wanna be putting in in 94 from mowhawk, and still trying to run high boost, but because there is more ethanol in it you cant boost as high as on true 94 octane. (or the ethanol blended mix doesnt have the same benefits as ture 94 octane gas)

That's just it. A lower than advertised octane rating could cause detonation, and mess up your engine. A little more serious than being over charged $5.

Tik-Tok
10-11-2006, 02:07 PM
Originally posted by DoubleLP


So the fuel you are using at the smaller stations is the same as the big guys. And if you are saving more money....I say go for it!


I phoned the Co-op corporate line and asked who they get their fuel from, and they said it is the same gasoline, however, it is not the same additives, as in their 91 octane, though it comes from Shell, isn't the same as Shell's 91 V-power.

lint
10-11-2006, 02:41 PM
Originally posted by blitz


That's just it. A lower than advertised octane rating could cause detonation, and mess up your engine. A little more serious than being over charged $5.

Most newer cars have knock sensors that prevent this.

And regarding octane ratings, this is an interesting tidbit from wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Octane_rating):

Measurement methods

The most common type of octane rating worldwide is the Research Octane Number (RON). RON is determined by running the fuel through a specific test engine with a variable compression ratio under controlled conditions, and comparing these results with those for mixtures of isooctane and n-heptane.

There is another type of octane rating, called Motor Octane Number (MON) or the aviation lean octane rating, which is a better measure of how the fuel behaves when under load. MON testing uses a similar test engine to that used in RON testing, but with a preheated fuel mixture, a higher engine speed, and variable ignition timing to further stress the fuel's knock resistance. Depending on the composition of the fuel, the MON of a modern gasoline will be about 8 to 10 points lower than the RON. Normally fuel specifications require both a minimum RON and a minimum MON.

In most countries (including all of Europe and Australia) the "headline" octane that would be shown on the pump is the RON, but in the United States and some other countries the headline number is the average of the RON and the MON, sometimes called the Anti-Knock Index (AKI), Road Octane Number (RdON), Pump Octane Number (PON), or (R+M)/2. Because of the 8 to 10 point difference noted above, this means that the octane in the United States will be about 4 to 5 points lower than the same fuel elsewhere: 87 octane fuel, the "regular" gasoline in the US and Canada, would be 91-95 (regular) in Europe.

lint
10-11-2006, 02:49 PM
Originally posted by Xtrema


Nissan and other manufacturers doesn't recommend anything above 10% because of the material they used (fuel tank/line/injectors) are not rated to handle ethanol and may cause early deterioration of the fuel system. That's why they state that in the manual. Not that you couldn't but don't try to claim on warranty if you have engine problems and they find out you used more than 10%.

If you want to run large amount of ethanol, you'll have to buy a Flex Fuel vehicle. Nissan is coming out with E85 version of Armada and Titan is some markets next year.

I just find this comment interesting. What are the tanks/lines/injectors made of that could be affected by ethanol? Reason I ask is that ethanol behaves a bit like water (-OH) and a bit like hydrocarbons (CH3CH2-). Since trace amounts of water are present in gasoline, I can't see why ethanol content would be damaging to the components of the fuel system since it behaves a little like both.