The 650,000 extra dead Iraqis thing explained well for the non academic types...

[Toma]

http://www.commondreams.org/views06/1016-20.htm

[l8braker]

Convenient how they have left out any mention (or condemnation) of the Insurgency and the mass killing and destruction THEY cause daily. Nothing about the innocent Iraqi's THEY kill and maim. Nothing. Typical one-sided, biased, hippie hogwash from you.

[finboy]

this will get interesting :D

[ICEBERG]

TOMA for Prime Minister. Screw Harper.:D :thumbsup:

[kaput]

.

[l8braker]

Originally posted by kaput


You do know that he didn't write that article, right? I don't see it being particularily one sided either, it specifies that only 31% of the 655,000 can be directly attributed to the coalition forces.

Even he couldn't come up with that :) I know he didn't write the article. It is one-sided because they do specify that 31% number (while lambasting the US) but they do not condemn the actions of the Insurgency (the real killers IMO)

[ICEBERG]

Originally posted by kaput


You do know that he didn't write that article, right?

Some of the Beyond members don't understand that. All they do is Flame Toma.:goflames:

[Toma]

Lets see....

US invades... 650,000 die that WOULD NOT HAVE died otherwise.

Invasion=cause of death

doesn't matter who actually pulled the trigger. The Americans were the destabilizing shit disturbers that let this happen so Haliburton could make a bit more coin ;)

[Toma]

and the "only" 31% lol.... that's directly murdered 200,000 people, and th eother 500,000 indirectly.

Bush and Blair.... # 1 genocidal couple of the new millenium.

[collectskulls]

BAGHDAD, Iraq - The death toll in a surge of sectarian killings in Balad swelled to at least 91 on Monday, police and army officials said, while bombings in and near Baghdad killed as many as 10 people. Eleven more bodies were found dumped in the capital.

Two Marines and a soldier were killed in fighting Sunday, bringing to ten the number of U.S. troops killed in Iraq over the past three days. The Marines, assigned to Regimental Combat Team 5, were killed in fighting in volatile Anbar province, while the soldier was killed when his vehicle was hit by a roadside bomb outside Baghdad.

Sectarian fighting exploded over the weekend in Balad and nearby regions, 50 miles north of Baghdad.

The bloodshed began with the slayings of 17 Shiite workers on Friday. Shiites swiftly retaliated by setting up roadblocks, dragging off and killing those Sunnis they caught.

A police officer in the nearby Sunni-dominated town of Duluiyah said members of the Mahdi Army militia loyal to anti-U.S. cleric Muqtada al-Sadr had moved into the area and were killing Sunni men and boys. Local police were aiding the militias, said the officer, repeating a common claim made against the Shiite-dominated security forces.

Balad is a predominantly Shiite city, ringed by Sunni-dominated villages, towns and farmland. Bodies of victims of Balad's Sunni minority lay in the streets, while elderly people and women were being forced to leave the city, said the officer, who spoke on condition on anonymity for fear of reprisals.

House-to-house reprisals
Scores of terrified Sunnis had fled to Duluiyah and other neighboring towns, the policeman said.

Ahmed Ali, a 32-year-old Sunni truck driver who was trying to reach his wife's family in Balad, said Sunni families in neighboring towns have armed themselves to fight-off militia raids. He said he'd been told his in-laws were killed on Friday.

"Militiamen gave them just two hours to leave the house. But after half an hour, they broke into the house and killed four of them," Ali said.



They are killing each other but that is all the US fault lol

[Toms-SC]

Originally posted by Toma
and the "only" 31% lol.... that's directly murdered 200,000 people, and th eother 500,000 indirectly.

Bush and Blair.... # 1 genocidal couple of the new millenium.

They are doing a shitty job at genocide.

Needs more animal mothers

http://www.afan.dk/firefly/ffpic/ab_fmj144a.jpg

[ICEBERG]

Originally posted by collectskulls



They are killing each other but that is all the US fault lol


If US didn't Invade Iraq for it's OIL, none of this $hit would have happened.

[brownchild]

I have read almost every thread involved with Toma in these forums, and I have to say I cannot disagree with him on any one of these topics, in my eyes hes tryin to say George Bush and Tony Blair are the biggest terrorists on this planet, and how can anyone try to disagree? The people who are disagreeing are truly brainwashed by these politicians. Look at the death rates of innocent civilians in these invaded countries, Bush just wants oil, and it's funny to see you people cant see that. And im not tryin to side with the muslim extremists, because their just as bad, but dont have their hands on the types of weapons the Coallition forces do.

[ICEBERG]

Originally posted by Toms-SC


They are doing a shitty job at genocide.

Needs more animal mothers

http://www.afan.dk/firefly/ffpic/ab_fmj144a.jpg

:rolleyes: :rolleyes:

[collectskulls]

Originally posted by brownchild
I have read almost every thread involved with Toma in these forums, and I have to say I cannot disagree with him on any one of these topics, in my eyes hes tryin to say George Bush and Tony Blair are the biggest terrorists on this planet, and how can anyone try to disagree? The people who are disagreeing are truly brainwashed by these politicians. Look at the death rates of innocent civilians in these invaded countries, Bush just wants oil, and it's funny to see you people cant see that. And im not tryin to side with the muslim extremists, because their just as bad, but dont have their hands on the types of weapons the Coallition forces do.


Yup they highjack planes and fly them into buildings filled with innocent people.............

[ICEBERG]

Originally posted by collectskulls



Yup they highjack planes and fly them into buildings filled with innocent people.............

Yup, It is like how U.S, ohh Sorry... Like Israel fire Rockets into lebanon and kill innocent woman and kids. Don't get me started.

[wainr]

Originally posted by ICEBERG

Yup, It is like how U.S, ohh Sorry... Like Israel fire Rockets into lebanon and kill innocent woman and kids. Don't get me started.

Right.... because that justifies it all....

Its fine to say you hate Bush blah blah blah.. who doesnt... but dont try to justify terrorism.

You are so quick to condemn the US/Israel but you seem to have blinders to anyone else, as does Toma and his cronies. :thumbsdow

[AcuraTl]

Originally posted by wainr


Right.... because that justifies it all....

Its fine to say you hate Bush blah blah blah.. who doesnt... but dont try to justify terrorism.

You are so quick to condemn the US/Israel but you seem to have blinders to anyone else, as does Toma and his cronies. :thumbsdow

"Iraq had NOTHING to do with Terrorism" - George W Bush..


Some of you guys are SOOO ignorant,

with the US invasion of Iraq over 100 new Insurgent/terrorist groups have formed in Iraq, with some of the hardcore salafist groups vowing the destruction of the Western world...THEY WOULD NOT HAVE BEEN FORMED IF NOT FOR THE INVASION..!!!!

[wainr]

Originally posted by AcuraTl


"Iraq had NOTHING to do with Terrorism" - George W Bush..


Some of you guys are SOOO ignorant,

with the US invasion of Iraq over 100 new Insurgent/terrorist groups have formed in Iraq, with some of the hardcore salafist groups vowing the destruction of the Western world...THEY WOULD NOT HAVE BEEN FORMED IF NOT FOR THE INVASION..!!!!


Did I say it did? I was responding to his remark about Israel.. and not getting him started comment...

Thanks for coming out though.

Why dont you throw on your tinfoil hat and go watch loose change again. Hell... put on some popcorn and invite Toma over, you can cuddle on the couch, ignorance is bliss. :thumbsup:

[jay42w8]

how were the americans supposed to know that sunni and shiite muslim leaders could be such fucking animals?:dunno:

miscalculation on their part no doubt.

[wainr]

Originally posted by AcuraTl

THEY WOULD NOT HAVE BEEN FORMED IF NOT FOR THE INVASION..!!!!

So are they using Iraq as a testing ground? Kill few hundred thou of thier own people first.. test the waters??

I am quite sure these people were lunatics to start with, they were just to scared under Saddam to do shit. Now they are free to kill and maime all they want.

Is that the US's fault? Maybe, doesnt change what kind of people they are. The sectarian voilence that is occuring now was there before, its just worse now because there is no iron fist dictator to squash them anymore.

[AcuraTl]

Originally posted by wainr


So are they using Iraq as a testing ground? Kill few hundred thou of thier own people first.. test the waters??

I am quite sure these people were lunatics to start with, they were just to scared under Saddam to do shit. Now they are free to kill and maime all they want.

Is that the US's fault? Maybe, doesnt change what kind of people they are.

dude, the people in that region have quite a bit of religous/nationalistic fervor..i mean look at the Soviet invasion of Aghanistan..thousands of young arabs went to help strangers in another land..NON ARABS

Now they see an Arab country be invaded, and bingo, some kid who would have otherwise become a electrical engineers decides to go with his "Jihadi" brothers on a suicide operation, thats the way it works...

the US is royally FUCKED in Iraq and they cant really do shit..sorry bro

[Toma]

Originally posted by wainr


So are they using Iraq as a testing ground? Kill few hundred thou of thier own people first.. test the waters??

I am quite sure these people were lunatics to start with, they were just to scared under Saddam to do shit. Now they are free to kill and maime all they want.

Is that the US's fault? Maybe, doesnt change what kind of people they are.
Well, as long as we are guessing out of our asses... maybe the US and CIA funds some of the groups to cause the instability, thus giving the US reason to stay.

I mean, if it was hunky odry peace, they would have left by now...

As long as we are just talking out our asses that is.

[wainr]

Originally posted by Toma

Well, as long as we are guessing out of our asses... maybe the US and CIA funds some of the groups to cause the instability, thus giving the US reason to stay.



Coming from you I doubt thats a guess, that is what you truly believe. Was there an internet video that explains all this? :thumbsup:

[Toma]

The only thing we KNOW is that the death toll under Saddam was much less then Under the US and new Iraqi government. By something like a factor of 3, and even that was high due to the huge existing death rate due to the US imposed sanction to begin with.

Saddams worst killing was 20 years ago.... which incidentally WAS the US's fault as well.... but why get into that oen ;)

[Toma]

Originally posted by wainr


Coming from you I doubt thats a guess, that is what you truly believe. Was there an internet video that explains all this? :thumbsup:
This is nothing new... they did it with the KLA in Kosovo and a few groups in South America.... sounds more realistic then your theory being that it HAS happened and has been proven in the past.....

Old dog new tricks? I doubt it.

[wainr]

Originally posted by AcuraTl


dude, the people in that region have quite a bit of religous/nationalistic fervor..i mean look at the Soviet invasion of Aghanistan..thousands of young arabs went to help strangers in another land..NON ARABS

Now they see an Arab country be invaded, and bingo, some kid who would have otherwise become a electrical engineers decides to go with his "Jihadi" brothers on a suicide operation, thats the way it works...

the US is royally FUCKED in Iraq and they cant really do shit..sorry bro

I see your point.. but WTF.. They are killing Iraqis by the thousands.. is that how they help their fellow arabs???

With friends like that who needs enemies....

[turab16]

if US did not invade iraq Saddam would have done the killings , only secretively...... Majority of the killings are being done bymaniac suicide bombers ( i don't call them Islamic becuase they are doing everything against Islam) but someone has to take responsibility.... if you invade you take responsibility....

moreover, these insurgents are mostly foriegners and not the local poppulation. Now the dynamics are changing and everyone can witness mini civil war.... between the 3 sects....

650,000 in iraq
400,000 in darfur

and the rest of 6 billion chooses to ignore and do nothing about it......

has the mankind really become that selfish and ignorant?

[wainr]

Originally posted by Toma

This is nothing new... they did it with the KLA in Kosovo and a few groups in South America.... sounds more realistic then your theory being that it HAS happened and has been proven in the past.....

Old dog new tricks? I doubt it.

*sigh

[Toma]

Originally posted by turab16
if US did not invade iraq Saddam would have done the killings , only secretively......
Another dummy that can't read.... :drool:

[7thgenvic]

i always question the point of these threads! if you want something done so bad then get a goverment job or go hold some signs with the rest of the hippies

[Toma]

Originally posted by 7thgenvic
i always question the point of these threads! if you want something done so bad then get a goverment job or go hold some signs with the rest of the hippies
Or, how about I bring awareness of the situation to the kids reading these car sites?? ;) :love:

And yes, a UN job is in my future....eventually :)

[wainr]

Originally posted by 7thgenvic
i always question the point of these threads! if you want something done so bad then get a goverment job or go hold some signs with the rest of the hippies

:thumbsup:

http://img414.imageshack.us/img414/7919/captkar10803051533pakistanprop.jpg
http://californiaconservative.org/images/crazymuslims.jpg

[turab16]

Saddam killed by the millions!!!

Do you know wht his agneda was??

He killed the Shiette Muslims in Millions and during the IRan IRaq war which lasted for 10 years he was killing Irani and Iraqi Shiette Muslims by making them fight each other.....




Originally posted by Toma
The only thing we KNOW is that the death toll under Saddam was much less then Under the US and new Iraqi government. By something like a factor of 3, and even that was high due to the huge existing death rate due to the US imposed sanction to begin with.

Saddams worst killing was 20 years ago.... which incidentally WAS the US's fault as well.... but why get into that oen ;)

[wainr]

Originally posted by turab16
Saddam killed by the millions!!!

Do you know wht his agneda was??

He killed the Shiette Muslims in Millions and during the IRan IRaq war which lasted for 10 years he was killing Irani and Iraqi Shiette Muslims by making them fight each other.....





I am sure that was Americas fault too... ;)

Hell I blame America for the Flames losing.. :guns:

[turab16]

America did supplied chemical weapons and WMDs during that time to Saddam....

It was Rumsfeld who carried out the deal.....

[AcuraTl]

Originally posted by wainr




I see your point.. but WTF.. They are killing Iraqis by the thousands.. is that how they help their fellow arabs???

With friends like that who needs enemies....

to be honest i dont think the resistance is targetting civilians..maybe collaborators with the US...

And just look at the suicide bombing yesterday by the Tamil tigers, 99 soldiers killed and countless civilians...the target was the soldiers, the majority of civilian deaths is caused by US bombardment, or secreterian violence..you have to give props to TOMA, even i thought (3years ago) that the US would face a tough time but never did i imagine this level of shit would hit the US in the face..

I remember a year ago they were fearing iraq would turn into a Quagmire, i think its officially turned into a fucking quick sand bog!

[eljefe]

Originally posted by AcuraTl


to be honest i dont think the resistance is targetting civilians..maybe collaborators with the US...



It has little or nothing to do with US collaborators, it is religious sects.

At this point there are three fights happening, the shiite militias fighting the US, the Sunis fighting the US but far more serious is the sectarian violence of Shiites killing Sunis and Sunis killing Shiites, which has very little to do with the US at all. That is where the vast majority of civilians are dying right now.


BAGHDAD, Iraq - Bombings and shootings across Iraq killed at least 28 people on Tuesday, including four students and a doctor. In Balad, the scene of sectarian fighting that has killed close to 100 people, U.S. troops aided Iraqi security forces struggling to contain the bloodshed
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20061017/ap_on_re_mi_ea/iraq

I do not disagree though that much of this sectarian violence and death squads are an indirect result of the US invasion and occupation. The US came and invaded quickly and militarily very effectively. They did not however have a plan or troop numbers to secure and occupy the country afterwards while providing control and security. Although I emphatically disagree with the US invasion and the reasons given and used by the US it has been the occupation or second stage that has been entirely botched and has in turn created the volatile unsecure chaos that has reigned since the invasion was deemed complete. "Major combat operations in Iraq have ended" (George W Bush May 1st 2003)

[Toms-SC]

Originally posted by ICEBERG


:rolleyes: :rolleyes:

What? thats it? Can't you agree they are doing a shitty job at genocide?

[h_s]

its obvious that his source is bias, look at all their headlines:
------------------------------------------------------------------------

Iraq Cancels Peace Talks After Scores More Die

5 Americans Killed in Iraq, Bringing Month’s Toll to 53

US Coal Plant Boom Poses Major Ecological, Economic Questions


Trouble in the Air: How UK Government Flights Pumped Out 1,000 Tons of Carbon Dioxide

Ecuador Set to Join 'Pink Tide' Washing Across Latin America

Ambush: How One Interview Blew Apart Blair's Disastrous Foreign Policy

Bush Keeps Revising War Justification

Human Rights Concerns Fail to Staunch Flow of UK Arms

Displease a Lobbyist, Get Fired: House Report Shows How Ken Mehlman Acted on Abramoff's Behalf as White House Political Director

US 'Plot to Force Out Hamas'

Citing Heavenly Injunctions to Fight Earthly Warming

UK Military Forced to Hire Civilian Helicopters in Afghanistan

A Global Call to "Stand Up Against Poverty"

The British Officer Said: 'We Are Now Just Another Tribe'

Guantanamo Guards 'Admitted Abusing Inmates'

Democrats to Seize At Least Half of Congress

An Accidental Canadian Finds Her Environmental Footing

Gay Marriage Losing Punch as Ballot Issue

[eljefe]

^^ yep perhaps biased, but factual.

[nadroj23]

TWO THREADS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! WTF stop this shit toma people arent are stupid as you fuckin think............

[nadroj23]

:whocares: :whocares: :whocares: :whocares: :whocares: :whocares: :whocares: :whocares: :whocares: :whocares: :whocares: :whocares: :whocares: :whocares:

[collectskulls]

too lazy to start a new thread........

Myths V. Facts:

Debunking Newsweek's Article on Afghanistan: “The Rise of Jihadistan” (October 2, 2006)

October 5, 2006

INCORRECT NEWSWEEK CLAIM: “The 2003 invasion of Iraq did more than divert essential resources from Afghanistan; it created a test lab for new insurgent weapons and tactics that have since been adopted by the Taliban.”

RESPONSE:

The assertion that the Iraq invasion “diverted” resources from Afghanistan is a talking point of critics of the Bush administration. It is an opinion, not a fact.
Resources to Afghanistan have increased since Operation Iraqi Freedom began. In March 2003, the United States had about 9,500 troops in Afghanistan. Today, there are more than 21,000 U.S. forces either under U.S. or NATO command in Afghanistan or directly supporting missions there.
The insinuation that Iraq has created new tactics is, at best, exaggerated. Guerrilla warfare techniques and terror tactics such as suicide bombings were not invented in Iraq.
Additionally, the logic of this claim seems to be that U.S. forces should never confront terrorists far from our shores because of the danger that the enemy might fight back -- and learn new tactics in the process. This is not a coherent policy.


INCORRECT NEWSWEEK CLAIM: “Five years after the Afghan invasion, the Taliban are fighting back hard, carving out a sanctuary where they -- and Al Qaeda’s leaders -- can operate freely.”

RESPONSE:

Afghanistan is undergoing a difficult transition from a state of anarchy in many areas to a country with a democratically elected central government that is reaching out to long ungoverned territories. The article frequently relies on myths, opinions, worst-case scenarios, and a disinclination to mention any positive developments.

The strength and influence of the Taliban has grown in some areas, but the Coalition, NATO/ISAF and Afghan forces are on the offensive and will relentlessly pursue Taliban and al-Qaeda extremists, as well as any associated movements. The rise in violence is often directly attributable to OEF Coalition, NATO/ISAF, and Afghan National Army and Police offensive operations. These operations are designed to set the stage for the continued development and extension of the central government’s reach into areas that have been lawless for decades. Not all the violence can be attributed to the Taliban and al-Qaeda: some arises from criminality, tribal strife, land disputes, or narco-trafficking.


INCORRECT NEWSWEEK CLAIM: “To impose order following the 2001 invasion, the Pentagon relied heavily on the same corrupt mujahedin chiefs whose brutal misrule first spawned the Taliban in the mid-1990s.”

RESPONSE:

This is an opinion stated as a fact.
Instead of initiating a massive military occupation along the lines of the Soviets during the 1980s, the Coalition has worked with local leaders and institutions to move Afghanistan forward from its tragic past. National disenfranchisement often encourages Afghans to fight against the Coalition, so an Afghan solution -- not a U.S.-imposed solution -- was deemed best.
The Coalition worked quickly to help emplace an interim government that would be acceptable to the Afghan people. Hamid Karzai was selected by the Loya Jirga -- a traditional assembly of Afghan tribal and community leaders. President Karzai was democratically elected by the Afghan people in their first such vote in the country’s history.
Many of these chiefs or “warlords” did initially have their own separate militias, but most were placed under the control of the Ministry of Defense -- then disarmed and demobilized. The Afghan National Army has since grown to more than 30,000 troops, with the possibility of increasing to 70,000. The government of Afghanistan continues to work to disarm illegal armed groups in the country.


INCORRECT NEWSWEEK CLAIM:“After U.S. commanders failed to seal off the Pakistan border near the besieged caves of Tora Bora, letting bin Laden escape, the Qaeda leader helped rebuild Mullah Omar’s decimated forces.”

RESPONSE:

This claim is disputed and lacks context. In an Oct. 19, 2004, op-ed in The New York Times, Gen. Tommy Franks, the CENTCOM commander at the time, wrote: “We don’t know to this day whether Mr. bin Laden was at Tora Bora in December 2001.” Franks noted that some intelligence sources said bin Laden was present; other sources indicated he was in Pakistan; and still others suggested he was in Kashmir.
Concerning the actual conduct of the battle, Tora Bora is a mountainous and difficult region of Afghanistan -- an area that was all but impossible to surround or seal off. Haphazardly sending a massive U.S. force into unfamiliar terrain would have invited intense resistance from local tribesman, potentially bloody battles, and would have alerted al-Qaeda operatives to an impending attack, which might have given many of those we captured more time to flee.
Gen. Franks has stated that the United States enlisted Afghan fighters to help lead the search for bin Laden and other al-Qaeda members because “[k]illing and capturing Taliban and Qaeda fighters was best done by the Afghan fighters who already knew the caves and tunnels.”
In addition, special operations forces from the United States and several other countries were also there, providing tactical leadership and calling in air strikes.
Pakistani troops also provided significant help: As many as 100,000 took up positions along the border and rounded up hundreds of al-Qaeda and Taliban fighters.


INCORRECT NEWSWEEK CLAIM: “Washington pushed Musharraf to crack down on the never-tamed Afghan borderlands, but fierce tribal resistance led to a formal deal letting the Taliban retain their bases there.”

RESPONSE:

This claim is disputed.
According to Pakistan’s President Musharraf, the agreement with tribal leaders had “bottom lines” that were non-negotiable. In his words, the agreement requires: “No al-Qaeda activity,” and “no Taliban activity in our tribal agency or across [the border] in Afghanistan.”
Gen. James L. Jones, Supreme Allied Commander Europe, has said that “[i]f all the elements of the agreement are, in fact, lived up to by the signatories, then the situation on the border should improve.”


INCORRECT NEWSWEEK CLAIM: “As doubts rise over Bush’s global aims, NATO is hard put to find the troops it needs for the mission.”

RESPONSE:

Each of NATO’s 26 members is contributing to the Afghanistan mission -- an unprecedented commitment for the Alliance outside of its own borders.
On Oct. 5, 2006, NATO’s International Security Assistance Force took over security operations in the eastern part of Afghanistan, bringing more than 12,000 U.S. troops under NATO command. At the recent NATO ministerial in Slovenia, Poland pledged 1,000 additional troops to support ISAF.
With nearly 20,000 non-U.S. NATO troops, plus the more than 12,000 U.S. troops under NATO command, the NATO mission is the strongest it has ever been, and Alliance forces have been directly taking the fight to the enemy in southern Afghanistan.
In testimony before Congress, Gen. Jones stated: “[T]he opposing militant forces have tried to test NATO to see if we have the will and the capability to stand and fight. And the evidence is in: The overwhelming answer is yes.”


INCORRECT NEWSWEEK CLAIM: “In the countryside over the past year Taliban guerrillas have filled a power vacuum that had been created by the relatively light NATO and U.S. military footprint of some 40,000 soldiers, and by the weakness of Afghan President Hamid Karzai’s administration.”

RESPONSE:

Qari Mohammed Yousaf Ahmadi, generally viewed as the Taliban’s current chief spokesman, stated publicly on Sept. 15, “The Taliban forces have conducted a tactical retreat.” It is difficult to fill a power vacuum if your forces are retreating.
As Gen. Jones has recently stated, much of the recent increased fighting stems from the Afghan central government extending into areas in the south that have been lawless for decades. Much of the fighting reflects a decision by the Taliban to challenge the NATO force in southern Afghanistan. The tactic hasn’t worked.
President Karzai himself has acknowledged the importance of strengthening and improving Afghanistan’s governmental institutions. A representative government has never before existed in Afghanistan’s long history, and strengthening that government will take time and patience.


INCORRECT NEWSWEEK CLAIM: “Afghanistan is ‘unfortunately well on its way’ to becoming a ‘narco-state,’ NATO’s supreme commander, Marine Gen. Jim Jones, said before Congress last week.”

RESPONSE:

While Gen. Jones did in fact warn of such a possibility, that was not all he said in his testimony to Congress. Left out of the Newsweek article was his assessment that this situation can be reversed if the Afghan government, NATO, and the Coalition work aggressively to reduce the cultivation and flow of opium in Afghanistan and provide rural economic development to improve the economic prospects of Afghan farmers. This is precisely the approach being taken.
The article also leaves out other parts of Gen. Jones’ statement that give fuller context to his sentiments. He went on to say, “Afghanistan should no longer be considered a failed state, but rather a fragile state.”


INCORRECT NEWSWEEK CLAIM: “But the harsh truth is that five years after the U.S. invasion on Oct. 7, 2001, most of the good news is confined to Kabul, with its choking rush-hour traffic jams, a construction boom and a handful of air-conditioned shopping malls. Much of the rest of Afghanistan appears to be failing again.”

RESPONSE:

Afghanistan was -- and is -- one of the poorest country’s on the face of the earth. It will take years of hard work by the Afghan people and the international community to reverse the effects of decades of occupation and civil war.
Improvements are not confined to Kabul, though it is true that much of the development and growth has been in larger cities, such as Kabul, Herat, and the northern city of Mazar-e-Sharif. Nonetheless, there has been a significant economic growth and donor efforts to improve living conditions across the country. Some examples:
Afghanistan’s GDP was valued at $2.4 billion in 2001. In 2006, it was valued at $7.3 billion, and that number is projected to rise to $8.8 billion next year.
The government of Afghanistan collected more than $177 million in revenue in 2002–2003, and $300 million in 2004–2005, an increase of 70 percent.
Eighty-five percent of all property deeds in Afghanistan have been restored or reorganized, decreasing land and ownership disputes.
There is now a Central Bank with 32 computerized provincial branches.
The completion of the Kabul-Kandahar highway improved transportation and commerce by dramatically reducing travel times between the two cities.
Thousands of kilometers of roads have been built or improved since the Taliban fell. The U.S. portion of the Kandahar to Herat highway has reduced the travel time between those two major cities from 10 hours to 4.3 hours. The average speed on 70 percent of Afghanistan’s roadways has increased three-fold, from 20 kilometers per hour to 60 kilometers per hour.
There have been more than 28,000 micro-loans given out for agricultural activities.
At least 2.5 million Afghans have benefited from irrigation and road projects linking farms to market. Other agricultural improvements include 210 irrigation structures and 300 kilometers of canals that have been rehabilitated to improve 300,000 hectares of cropland.
At least 2.3 million animals have been vaccinated against disease.
In 2001, only eight percent of Afghans had access to basic health care. Now, 80 percent do.
There are currently more than 5 million students enrolled in schools -- 34 percent are girls.


INCORRECT NEWSWEEK CLAIM: “Al Qaeda or other terrorist groups now have a place from which to hatch the next 9/11.”

RESPONSE:

This assertion is contradicted within the same article by Lt. Gen. Karl Eikenberry, Commander, Combined Forces Command – Afghanistan. He points out that al-Qaeda or its successors have nothing like the liberty that allowed them to plot September 11 in the open. He states: “They have no safe haven inside Afghanistan that if we find it, we will not strike against them.”
It is one thing for al-Qaeda remnants to operate within Afghanistan’s borders while being vigorously pursued and attacked by Afghan, NATO, and Coalition forces -- as is happening now. It is quite another thing for a terrorist organization to have an entire nation where they can plan, train, and launch attacks with impunity -- as Osama bin Laden and al-Qaeda did in Afghanistan before September 11.
There is simply no comparison between the situation in Afghanistan when 9-11 was “hatched” to the situation today.

http://defenselink.mil/home/dodupdate/correct-record/documents/20061005.html

[collectskulls]

and then this wack job again...........

(CBS/AP) Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad said Friday that Israel no longer had any reason to exist and would soon disappear.

"This regime, thanks to God, has lost the reason for its existence," Ahmadinejad told a crowd of thousands gathered at a rally in support of the Palestinians in the capital Tehran.

"Efforts to stabilize this fake (Israeli) regime, by the grace of God, have completely failed... You should believe that this regime is disappearing," he said.

Ahmadinejad also called Israeli leaders a "group of terrorists" and threatened any country that supports the Jewish state, as millions of Iranians took to the streets for anti-Israel protests.

"You imposed a group of terrorists ... on the region," Ahmadinejad said, addressing the U.S. and its allies. "It is in your own interest to distance yourself from these criminals... This is an ultimatum. Don't complain tomorrow."

"Nations will take revenge," he told hundreds of thousands of supporters at a pro-Palestinian rally in the capital Tehran.

Ahmadinejad also called the U.N. Security Council "illegitimate," ahead of diplomats' planned circulation of a draft resolution on Iran next week.

Millions of Iranians took part in rallies held in every major city across Iran for "Al-Quds Day," the Arabic name for Jerusalem. Many became anti-American protests as well, criticizing U.S. support for Israel.

In 1981, the late Iranian leader Ayatollah Ruhollah Khomeini declared the last Friday of the Islamic fasting month of Ramadan as "Al-Quds Day," a day of protest to show the importance of Jerusalem to Muslims. Jerusalem is the third holiest site in Islam after the Saudi Arabian cities of Mecca and Medina.

A banner in Tehran carried a quote from the late Iranian leader Ayatollah Ruhollah Khomeini: "Quds is part of Islam's body."

Protests were also planned in Egypt and Lebanon.

The frequent saber rattling by the Iranian president has raised growing concerns in Israel about Iran's nuclear program, reports CBS News correspondent Robert Berger. Prime Minister Ehud Olmert said this week that Iran would have to pay a price, hinting broadly that Israel might launch a pre-emptive strike against the nuclear facilities. Some analysts say the only way Israel could launch a successful strike against Iran's well-fortified facilities, is to use its own tactical nuclear weapons.

Iranians "have to be afraid" of the consequences of their intransigence," Olmert told reporters on his way home from Moscow. "They have to understand that if they object to every compromise, there will be a price to pay."

A draft U.N. resolution on Iran is expected to be introduced in the Security Council early next week, and diplomats have said they would seek limited sanctions on Tehran for refusing to suspend uranium enrichment — a key process that can produce either fuel for a nuclear reactor or the material for a warhead.

On Friday, Ahmadinejad called the U.N. Security Council and its decisions "illegitimate" as long as it was dominated by the U.S. and Britain.

"What sort of Security Council is this? The whole world knows that the U.S. and Britain are enemies of the Iranian nation," he said.

The United States and Britain — along with France, Russia and China — have power to veto any Security Council measures.

"The time is over for such logic. Under such circumstances, the Security Council is illegitimate and its decisions are illegitimate," Ahmadinejad said, drawing chants of "Death to America" from the crowd.

Ahmadinejad has said the Nazis' slaughter of 6 million Jews during World War II was a myth, and that Israel should be wiped off the map or moved to Germany or the United States.

He warned Friday that the U.S. and other supporters of Israel were accomplices in Israeli attacks against Palestinians.

"Any crime committed (by Israel) today, any house demolished ... it will be the direct responsibility of the supporters of this (Israeli) regime ... This regime has nothing for you but loss," he said.


http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2006/10/20/world/main2110011.shtml

[A3GTiVR6SC]

Originally posted by Toms-SC


What? thats it? Can't you agree they are doing a shitty job at genocide?



Genocide gen‧o‧cide /ˈdʒɛnəˌsaɪd/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[jen-uh-sahyd] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation

–noun the deliberate and systematic extermination of a national, racial, political, or cultural group.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

[Origin: 1940–45; < Gk géno(s) race + -cide]





Ahahahahhaha :rofl:

sometimes i wonder if you are serious when you post...

[Toma]

Originally posted by A3GTiVR6SC





Ahahahahhaha :rofl:

sometimes i wonder if you are serious when you post...
Well, I tell ya.... people have gone in front of the war crimes tribunal cahrged withy genocide and ethnic cleansing of FAR FEWER people then the US is responsible for murdering over there. From the start (from ~1991 to present), the US has murdered close to 2 million Iraqis (by murder fo course, I mean deaths caused by, both directly and as a resutl of their actions, daily bombings since 1991, sanctions etc.)

That is serious. It's a big number. 2 citites the size of Calgary exterminated basically...

[Evro]

US troops and Extremeists killing eachother does benefit the world (sorry im being biased but it really does benefits my part of the world),
but watching footage of innocent Iraqi's dying while the world stands back and does nothing is horrible.

I think its good to see Toma post things like this, if nothing else its a refreshing change to all the garbage CNN (and especially Glenn Beck) seem to be pumping out




Originally posted by Toma

Well, I tell ya.... people have gone in front of the war crimes tribunal cahrged withy genocide and ethnic cleansing of FAR FEWER people then the US is responsible for murdering over there. From the start (from ~1991 to present), the US has murdered close to 2 million Iraqis (by murder fo course, I mean deaths caused by, both directly and as a resutl of their actions, daily bombings since 1991, sanctions etc.)

That is serious. It's a big number. 2 citites the size of Calgary exterminated basically...

haha i started my America-atrocities count back in Hiroshima so my number is just a bit bigger than 2 mil

[collectskulls]

Maybe the US should fight this war the same way Sadam did in Kuwait.

http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qn4155/is_20050512/ai_n14626692

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=31896

Or maybe they could of left him power so he could.....

http://image.guardian.co.uk/sys-files/Guardian/documents/2002/12/02/hrdossierenglish.pdf

http://www.iraqfoundation.org/news/2003/ajan/27_saddam.html

http://www.moreorless.au.com/killers/hussein.html

http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/jackstraw1.html

And have we forgotten the reports about how his son's were even worse then him.

He needed to be taken out as well as a bunch of other dictator's around the world.
And seeing as the UN is USELESS.......

[Atombomb]

Dear Dumb Humans,

I hear your passionate dislike of the current Iraqi strategy, however I hear no propositions, no strategical contributions from you.

you see...
Success is not an option for you, you want failure.
You want failure so bad that you are willing to embrace a doctrine of hatred in place of appropriate rational thought.
You never find a defense for your "antiwar" opinion besides a figment of the common thought... evidence that is only found in the common opinion you tout. You've whored yourself to a brotherhood that dissents all productivity in favor of mass denomination and precived acceptance, effectively compensating YOU for lack of personal rationality

..... WMD is the only reason that stands out from the many reasons presented for invaison. The only reason that was semi-proven to have been miscommunicated.

Your accusation of decitfulness on the part of the administration could be considered if it were not for the transparency of this operation. If the administration was that deceiptful to undertake so many risks in a master deceipt campaign why would they not have purchased some insurance on their highly sophisticated fraud? (Ex. Fradulent WMDs to plant)

Your logic charges that the administration fabricated presence of WMDs. But you see... you have alleged dishonesty by defence of inherient deciptfullness and yet you then reward their honesty in their inability to prove their pretense.

It is absolutely amazing how many dumb humans can defend prophetical bullshit.

</>

[Atombomb]

Originally posted by Evro
US troops and Extremeists killing eachother does benefit the world (sorry im being biased but it really does benefits my part of the world),
but watching footage of innocent Iraqi's dying while the world stands back and does nothing is horrible.

I think its good to see Toma post things like this, if nothing else its a refreshing change to all the garbage CNN (and especially Glenn Beck) seem to be pumping out





haha i started my America-atrocities count back in Hiroshima so my number is just a bit bigger than 2 mil


I could totally agree with you if it weren't for CNN being a heavy democratic anti-republican, anti-Iraqi war news organization.

Thats like saying the Conservatives won the last election in Canada because of the propaganda that the CBC "pumps out" for conservatives.

Read letter above, its addressed to you!

[A3GTiVR6SC]

Originally posted by Toma

Well, I tell ya.... people have gone in front of the war crimes tribunal cahrged withy genocide and ethnic cleansing of FAR FEWER people then the US is responsible for murdering over there. From the start (from ~1991 to present), the US has murdered close to 2 million Iraqis (by murder fo course, I mean deaths caused by, both directly and as a resutl of their actions, daily bombings since 1991, sanctions etc.)

That is serious. It's a big number. 2 citites the size of Calgary exterminated basically...


I still wouldnt call it "genocide" though. ;)

[Toma]

Originally posted by Evro



haha i started my America-atrocities count back in Hiroshima so my number is just a bit bigger than 2 mil

Oh I know, and they are worried about OTHER countries with nukes? :rolleyes: