I love the cover of the latest edition of Wired [Archive] - Beyond.ca - Car Forums

Super_Geo

10-24-2006, 05:27 PM

When I see full out Evangelical Christians out there 'speaking in tongues' and all the other wacky shit they do... fuck, is it ever depressing. That we can come so far in philosphy and technology yet still have people believe in this fairy tale shit is baffling. I would never marry a woman that believes full heartedly in that garbage.

Edit: Jesus Camp (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7UWIb4FwHPg) :rolleyes:

Also, I'm not saying all religious people are stupid. I know way more intelligent liberal Christians than I do eyes-closed-shut-hands-over-ears bible thumpers who I regard as, well... fucking retarded.

E36M3

10-24-2006, 05:50 PM

Agreed.. I know lots of otherwise intelligent people who believe in ssome religion or another. The point of the "new athiests" is that most of these people are probably atheists, and they should not be afraid to come forward.

The Wired article is definitely worth a read:

http://www.wired.com/news/wiredmag/0,71985-0.html?tw=wn_index_13

Originally posted by Super_Geo
When I see full out Evangelical Christians out there 'speaking in tongues' and all the other wacky shit they do... fuck, is it ever depressing. That we can come so far in philosphy and technology yet still have people believe in this fairy tale shit is baffling. I would never marry a woman that believes full heartedly in that garbage.

Edit: Jesus Camp (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7UWIb4FwHPg) :rolleyes:

Also, I'm not saying all religious people are stupid. I know way more intelligent liberal Christians than I do eyes-closed-shut-hands-over-ears bible thumpers who I regard as, well... fucking retarded.

Ben

10-24-2006, 06:43 PM

Wonderful read!

I love it!

Religion FTL. Some cultures it's great (IE Buddhism, it's teachings are of general humbleness and kindess, respect for all walks of life), but western religions can lick my evolution nutsack. If they're not in it for the money, they're in it for mass brainwash, deception, molestation and murder.

Some people need that crutch to feel important and help them through tough times, but it's never been there for me, and I choose to be practical.

Darkane

10-24-2006, 06:52 PM

Originally posted by Super_Geo
When I see full out Evangelical Christians out there 'speaking in tongues' and all the other wacky shit they do... fuck, is it ever depressing. That we can come so far in philosphy and technology yet still have people believe in this fairy tale shit is baffling. I would never marry a woman that believes full heartedly in that garbage.

Edit: Jesus Camp (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7UWIb4FwHPg) :rolleyes:

Also, I'm not saying all religious people are stupid. I know way more intelligent liberal Christians than I do eyes-closed-shut-hands-over-ears bible thumpers who I regard as, well... fucking retarded.

That new Shit "born again christains" and all those people do is absolute horse shit. Speaking in tounges, Exorcising.. Like fuck off. Me personally I am religous in the traditional sense. I went to church for a long time, got communion etc. These new breed christians are the worst ever! If you notice in the traditional religions, people dont push it on you. I dont go around people telling them they're going to hell, and if i do i tell them to hold the door :devil:

E36M3

10-24-2006, 06:53 PM

I agree, but I wouldn't limit myself to only disliking Western religion. I don't, though, classify Buddhism as a religion, as it is more an ethical system than anything else.

Originally posted by Ben
Wonderful read!

I love it!

Religion FTL. Some cultures it's great (IE Buddhism, it's teachings are of general humbleness and kindess, respect for all walks of life), but western religions can lick my evolution nutsack. If they're not in it for the money, they're in it for mass brainwash, deception, molestation and murder.

Some people need that crutch to feel important and help them through tough times, but it's never been there for me, and I choose to be practical.

BerserkerCatSplat

10-24-2006, 11:13 PM

I think that the Eastern religions have adapted to changing times better than others. Buddhism and such have become more of a "state of mind" or set of values, as opposed to a religious system.

I'm intrigued by this "The God Delusion", it sounds very interesting.

Toms-SC

10-25-2006, 08:54 AM

Religion FTL

hyperwhite

10-25-2006, 12:08 PM

Originally posted by BerserkerCatSplat
I think that the Eastern religions have adapted to changing times better than others. Buddhism and such have become more of a "state of mind" or set of values, as opposed to a religious system.

I'm intrigued by this "The God Delusion", it sounds very interesting.

thats what all religion should be today, not the cult that it is

2000_SI

10-25-2006, 12:50 PM

Awsome article...:thumbsup:

Xtrema

10-25-2006, 12:57 PM

i love the teachings but not the practice of religon.

soupey

10-25-2006, 01:17 PM

article is awesome :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

sputnik

10-25-2006, 01:42 PM

Anyone find it ironic that people of all religions are criticized for acting holier than thou, yet atheists are just as bad if not worse?

Why cant atheists just be atheists and not care what other people think?

DepTrotter

10-25-2006, 01:53 PM

ide like to see that documentary.. Jesus Camp

E36M3

10-25-2006, 01:53 PM

You might want to read the article and hopefully some books on the subject before putting forward that opinion.

I worry about what people think because religiouss thought leads to horrible things like war and the reduction of personal freedom. I won't get into the other things it causes, but it is clear you don't understand the desstructive force that religion poses if you think the best alternative is to ignore it.

Of course, anyone who is radical on either side just doesn't get it, but not worrying about what other people think has dire consequences.

Originally posted by sputnik
Anyone find it ironic that people of all religions are criticized for acting holier than thou, yet atheists are just as bad if not worse?

Why cant atheists just be atheists and not care what other people think?

Super_Geo

10-25-2006, 01:54 PM

Originally posted by sputnik
Why cant atheists just be atheists and not care what other people think?

Probably the same reason the religious people can't just be married to each other and not care what gay people do. ;)

sputnik

10-25-2006, 02:13 PM

Originally posted by Super_Geo

Probably the same reason the religious people can't just be married to each other and not care what gay people do. ;)

Many religious people dont care.

Unfortunately they dont get any media attention.

Cruz

10-25-2006, 02:15 PM

Personally I say Scientology FTL.

Super_Geo

10-25-2006, 02:19 PM

Originally posted by Cruz
Personally I say Scientology FTL.

Scientology :confused:

Cruz

10-25-2006, 02:22 PM

Any "religion" advocated, promoted, and endorsed by Tom Cruise raises serious doubts as to it's legitimacy IMO.

sputnik

10-25-2006, 02:23 PM

Originally posted by E36M3
You might want to read the article and hopefully some books on the subject before putting forward that opinion.

I worry about what people think because religiouss thought leads to horrible things like war and the reduction of personal freedom. I won't get into the other things it causes, but it is clear you don't understand the desstructive force that religion poses if you think the best alternative is to ignore it.

Of course, anyone who is radical on either side just doesn't get it, but not worrying about what other people think has dire consequences.

Personally I do not believe that my religious beliefs are destructive and they are between me and my God. Dawkins has done a very good job in his book by stereotyping all religious groups into war-mongering savages filled with hatred towards all people of differing opinions.

I have read his book and saw him interviewed on The Big Picture on CBC and he came across as a self-righteous arrogant old man. Really only a voice for the currently disgruntled.

BerserkerCatSplat

10-25-2006, 02:25 PM

Originally posted by Super_Geo

Scientology :confused:

www.xenu.net

A_3

10-25-2006, 02:32 PM

Richard Dawkin's arguments are full of fallicies. 'Smart people tend to be atheists'... Give me a fucking break.

I am not in any way religious, but I do believe humanity does very much need a sense of 'spirituality'. Unfortunately we live in a time where condemming religion seems like the trendy thing to do.

Everything needs to find balance, and so is the same between religion and science. Back when, everything was explained through religion. Not only was this wrong, but it was twisted and manipulated in some of the worst ways imaginable. The world lacked a pragmatic lense at which to look at the external world around them. Science was the answer to this, and we all know the wonders it has brought to our civilization.

The problem now, is that we've lost that ability to relate to our internal selves. Our world centers around what is physical and what can be explained. Religion gives us the ability to get in-touch with that which cannot logically be explained. Some of you may scoff at this, but it's more important then we tend to give it credit for. I personally believe the ability to find 'inner peace ' is one of the most important things we can achieve in our lifetime. We walk around in a society right now full of conflicted individuals. Individuals unhappy with themselves and their existence. And then we wonder why we have so many emotional, psychological crisis's in our society.

I'm generally not a fan of religion. Despite the good intentions of pretty much every religion out there, they can be easily manipulated to benefit somes individuals and control others. However, there is something below all the political bs, the idea of some power, whatever it may be, that is important.

This power does not have to be a 'god' persay. It can be whatever brings your peace and clarity. I know some people who choose to make nature their 'higher power', and I know others who choose to make it science, some even find it in, god forbid, religion. Nothing is wrong with any of these choices, no one should ever be condemmed, or insulted for them.

Like anything, an equilibrium must be found. At this moment though, the pendulum has swung to it's extreme in favour of science.

Sorry for the essay, that article got me a little heated.

E36M3

10-25-2006, 02:42 PM

I did not get the same message from his work, and I never meant to imply that your religious beliefs (or lack thereof) are destructive or not.

What I meant is that religious belief is responsible for a lot of the world's calamities and a lot of people believe it is time to move beyond it. To me and many others, there is no need to believe in magical deities or other supernatural explanations for why things are the way they are.

Originally posted by sputnik

Personally I do not believe that my religious beliefs are destructive and they are between me and my God. Dawkins has done a very good job in his book by stereotyping all religious groups into war-mongering savages filled with hatred towards all people of differing opinions.

I have read his book and saw him interviewed on The Big Picture on CBC and he came across as a self-righteous arrogant old man. Really only a voice for the currently disgruntled.

sputnik

10-25-2006, 03:10 PM

Originally posted by E36M3
I did not get the same message from his work, and I never meant to imply that your religious beliefs (or lack thereof) are destructive or not.

What I meant is that religious belief is responsible for a lot of the world's calamities and a lot of people believe it is time to move beyond it. To me and many others, there is no need to believe in magical deities or other supernatural explanations for why things are the way they are.

There are enough evangelical Christians that find the teachings and beliefs of other evangelical Christians to be completely insane. Guess which Christians make the news or have documentaries made of them?

Have you ever heard of Rick Warren, Rob Bell, Erwin McManus or Bill Hybels? Probably not. It's because all of them preach a message of peace, love and relevance. By relevance I mean that they dont care one way or another the "gay vote" goes, because biblically Christians are called to be submissive to the decisions of the government and compliant to their rules.

However I am sure you know of Jerry Falwell, Jim Bakker, Jimmy Swaggart, Pat Robertson and Rush Limbaugh. There are many evangelical Christians that wont give these people the light of day based on their extremism. However the secular media LOVES to use these people as an example of all Christians.

Perhaps read the book Velvet Elvis by Rob Bell. Not all Christians are abortion protesting war supporters.

E36M3

10-25-2006, 03:14 PM

I grew up in a moderate Christian family, I don't need to be told the obvious. Obviously most Christians (or people who consider themselves to be "believers" or religious or whatever you want to call them) are not all that bad, but as a perfect example, over 1 billion people consider themselves to be Roman Catholic, which is anti-abortion, anti-birth control (I can't even believe that, but it is true), anti-gay and probably out of tune with 90% of humanity.

Originally posted by sputnik

There are enough evangelical Christians that find the teachings and beliefs of other evangelical Christians to be completely insane. Guess which Christians make the news or have documentaries made of them?

Have you ever heard of Rick Warren, Rob Bell, Erwin McManus or Bill Hybels? Probably not. It's because all of them preach a message of peace, love and relevance. By relevance I mean that they dont care one way or another the "gay vote" goes, because biblically Christians are called to be submissive to the decisions of the government and compliant to their rules.

However I am sure you know of Jerry Falwell, Jim Bakker, Jimmy Swaggart, Pat Robertson and Rush Limbaugh. There are many evangelical Christians that wont give these people the light of day based on their extremism. However the secular media LOVES to use these people as an example of all Christians.

Perhaps read the book Velvet Elvis by Rob Bell. Not all Christians are abortion protesting war supporters.

sputnik

10-25-2006, 03:34 PM

Originally posted by E36M3
I grew up in a moderate Christian family, I don't need to be told the obvious. Obviously most Christians (or people who consider themselves to be "believers" or religious or whatever you want to call them) are not all that bad, but as a perfect example, over 1 billion people consider themselves to be Roman Catholic, which is anti-abortion, anti-birth control (I can't even believe that, but it is true), anti-gay and probably out of tune with 90% of humanity.

90% of Catholics only go to mass on Easter and Christmas and have no idea what the Catholic church believes, nor do they take their faith serious enough to even consider themselves Catholic.

My father in law will get upset if you make fun of Catholocism (because its a part of his Italian heritage) yet NEVER goes to mass, drinks heavily, uses birth control (vasectomy) and suggested to his son that he sleep around with as many girls as possible so that he doesnt get stuck only "knowing" one woman. Far from Catholic, but still a "proud" Catholic for some reason.

Judaism suffers from the same cultural heritage problems. There are many "Israelites" but not as many practicing Jews (which are also supposed to be anti-gay and anti-abortion). Many young so-called Jewish boys get their barmitzfah (sp?) just like atheists get Christmas presents. There seems to be a decline in Jewish reverence within the Jewish communities these days. However bad mouth the Jewish faith and all of them spring into action as if they are devout Rabbis.

Personally I believe that the problem lies not so much in the faith as it does in the "cultural identity" many faiths entail. You critcize an "Isrealite" or a middle eastern person without it becoming a religious war. If muslim people were allowed to be secular without political or family persecution I believe that the world would be much more peaceful. Unfortunately many have no choice and must side with religion because they were born into it.

Just out of curiousity. What is the background of your religious upbringing and why did you choose to leave?

E36M3

10-25-2006, 03:40 PM

I was raised Roman Catholic (fairly seriously, went to Catholic school, etc) and was just really not impressed by the rather dark history of the church or its beliefs. I don't think it is reasonable for someone to impose rules on someone else arbitrarily (as the popes do) and I really don't think that it was for me.

I don't disagree that there is some value to a moral/ethical framework, but the dogmatic nature of most religions bothers me.

The "new" athiest movement is really more targeted at agnostics (like myself) then it is at those who are truly religious. Although I feel that people should be legally allowed (and have the right protected) to believe anything they want, how they act on it should be controlled by the same laws that apply to anyone else. I also think that there is a legitimate argument that the rights of agnostics/athiests deserve equal protection.

Originally posted by sputnik

90% of Catholics only go to mass on Easter and Christmas and have no idea what the Catholic church believes, nor do they take their faith serious enough to even consider themselves Catholic.

My father in law will get upset if you make fun of Catholocism (because its a part of his Italian heritage) yet NEVER goes to mass, drinks heavily, uses birth control (vasectomy) and suggested to his son that he sleep around with as many girls as possible so that he doesnt get stuck only "knowing" one woman. Far from Catholic, but still a "proud" Catholic for some reason.

Judaism suffers from the same cultural heritage problems. There are many "Israelites" but not as many practicing Jews (which are also supposed to be anti-gay and anti-abortion). Many young so-called Jewish boys get their barmitzfah (sp?) just like atheists get Christmas presents. There seems to be a decline in Jewish reverence within the Jewish communities these days. However bad mouth the Jewish faith and all of them spring into action as if they are devout Rabbis.

Personally I believe that the problem lies not so much in the faith as it does in the "cultural identity" many faiths entail. You critcize an "Isrealite" or a middle eastern person without it becoming a religious war. If muslim people were allowed to be secular without political or family persecution I believe that the world would be much more peaceful. Unfortunately many have no choice and must side with religion because they were born into it.

Just out of curiousity. What is the background of your religious upbringing and why did you choose to leave?

3g4me

10-25-2006, 04:17 PM

You gotta believe in something IMO. Without religion you have no morals and no sence of what is good and what is bad, no punishment for bad deeds no reward for good, so tell me what is the point of living this life if there is nothing to look forward to?

Super_Geo

10-25-2006, 04:34 PM

BerserkerCatSplat

10-25-2006, 04:37 PM

Originally posted by 3g4me
You gotta believe in something IMO. Without religion you have no morals and no sence of what is good and what is bad, no punishment for bad deeds no reward for good, so tell me what is the point of living this life if there is nothing to look forward to?

So you're saying I have no morals, and don't know right from wrong? That's absurd and quite frankly rather insulting. However, you have insulted yourself as well - saying that "without religion you don't know right from wrong," means that without religion, you too would be too stupid to decide whether to kill someone for bus fare or not. An imbecilic notion, no?

What is the point of living if there's nothing to look forward to? I don't know, how about enjoying the life you have instead of hoping (with no proof, mind you) that there is a "better" life when you pass away? The notion of an "afterlife" is just a way to draw people to religion with empty, unprovable promises of happiness after death, which attracts those who fear death.

01RedDX

10-25-2006, 05:09 PM

footballer

10-25-2006, 05:17 PM

I love how people are exploring and not being limited by religion. But some people who hate religion scare me. We are in a society that let's us choose to do whatever we want to. Some people honestly can't live without saying a prayer everynight because it helps them psycologically. I say Good for science but don't force it upon people because you may hurt them.

Godfuader

10-25-2006, 11:26 PM

Very "Angels and Demons"esque. Is this a magazine available at any magazine outlet or does it come with the daily newspaper?

nhlfan

10-25-2006, 11:42 PM

Originally posted by sputnik

Many religious people dont care.

Unfortunately they dont get any media attention.

Originally posted by sputnik
Anyone find it ironic that people of all religions are criticized for acting holier than thou, yet atheists are just as bad if not worse?

Why cant atheists just be atheists and not care what other people think?

Guess what? Lots of atheists like myself don't really give a damn what your beliefs are. It works both ways; I love how you stereotyped us.

sputnik

10-26-2006, 07:15 AM

Originally posted by footballer
I love how people are exploring and not being limited by religion. But some people who hate religion scare me. We are in a society that let's us choose to do whatever we want to. Some people honestly can't live without saying a prayer everynight because it helps them psycologically. I say Good for science but don't force it upon people because you may hurt them.

That is a really good point.

In regards to Richard Dawkins documentary "The Root Of All Evil" he claims that all wars and calamaties are a direct result of religion. Personally I feel that it is more about human nature. If people have differing opinions about ANYTHING there is a chance for an emotional clash. Religion just happens to be that clash right now. Perhaps Dawkins should look to finding ways for people to live in peace and harmony aside their difference instead of perpetuating the "Us vs Them" mentality. Is Dawkins really looking for a clash between people with faith and those without?

sputnik

10-26-2006, 07:18 AM

Originally posted by Godfuader
Very "Angels and Demons"esque. Is this a magazine available at any magazine outlet or does it come with the daily newspaper?

Wired should be at all newsstands. Its been around for over 10 years.

sputnik

10-26-2006, 07:29 AM

Originally posted by E36M3
I was raised Roman Catholic (fairly seriously, went to Catholic school, etc) and was just really not impressed by the rather dark history of the church or its beliefs. I don't think it is reasonable for someone to impose rules on someone else arbitrarily (as the popes do) and I really don't think that it was for me.

I don't disagree that there is some value to a moral/ethical framework, but the dogmatic nature of most religions bothers me.

I can relate with your opinion of the Catholic church. While I find its reverence to God impressive, I find their history and dogma to be a fairly heavy burden to try and carry. There is a reason that many devout Catholics feel very guilty about their lives. I dont think thats what Jesus intended for life to be IMO.

Originally posted by E36M3
The "new" athiest movement is really more targeted at agnostics (like myself) then it is at those who are truly religious. Although I feel that people should be legally allowed (and have the right protected) to believe anything they want, how they act on it should be controlled by the same laws that apply to anyone else. I also think that there is a legitimate argument that the rights of agnostics/athiests deserve equal protection.

Its a potential catch 22 situation. Protecting the rights of one group can be perceived to infringe on the rights of another.

However I agree. Things like gay marriage and abortion shouldnt be the concern of the church as all people of faith should have the ability to restrain themselves from partaking in anything that they find objectionable.

I actually get pretty upset when I see Christians wasting their time protesting this cause or that cause.

3g4me

10-26-2006, 08:56 AM

Originally posted by BerserkerCatSplat

So you're saying I have no morals, and don't know right from wrong? That's absurd and quite frankly rather insulting. However, you have insulted yourself as well - saying that "without religion you don't know right from wrong," means that without religion, you too would be too stupid to decide whether to kill someone for bus fare or not. An imbecilic notion, no?

What is the point of living if there's nothing to look forward to? I don't know, how about enjoying the life you have instead of hoping (with no proof, mind you) that there is a "better" life when you pass away? The notion of an "afterlife" is just a way to draw people to religion with empty, unprovable promises of happiness after death, which attracts those who fear death.

I just stated my opinion. You say i insulted you lol. I was merly stating that religion is made as a guideline for good and evil. No need to get all huffed up about it. Ill tell you right now and you may flame me for it but i have something to believe in, which makes me feel good an gives me a purpose. You know what? Go travel the world see what humanity has done for religion, go see the vatican, go see midevil gothic churches in eastern europe, go see monasteries in china's Tibet. Basically go get educated and come talk ill bet you wont be so close minded and truely ignorant.

Sprinter

10-26-2006, 10:24 AM

Sprinter

10-26-2006, 10:39 AM

Originally posted by sputnik

...There is a reason that many devout Catholics feel very guilty about their lives...

Felt just like that when I was younger... if you're not allowed to make mistakes, then how are you gonna learn the difference from good or bad?

ninjak84

10-26-2006, 11:56 AM

The argument of science has turned into its own dogmatic following.

I'm Roman Catholic too (lots of us in this thread), but I don't practice the faith. I have my own beliefs in both science and religion, which don't follow anyones' guidelines.

That being said, some of you guys remind me of homo's waving the rainbow flag, with the way you're so proud to exclaim your discovery of science.
Isn't it enough to have your own beliefs? Instead of ferverently attacking the basics of religion and constantly looking to disprove others beliefs? I'm tired of seeing people use factual science as ammunition against systems of thought and faith.

I believe in science too, more so than religion. I've been a university student for more years on the subject (science, not religion) than most anyone on the forums. That still doesn't give me the right to denounce someone elses faith.

3g4me

10-26-2006, 12:28 PM

Originally posted by ninjak84
The argument of science has turned into its own dogmatic following.

I'm Roman Catholic too (lots of us in this thread), but I don't practice the faith. I have my own beliefs in both science and religion, which don't follow anyones' guidelines.

That being said, some of you guys remind me of homo's waving the rainbow flag, with the way you're so proud to exclaim your discovery of science.
Isn't it enough to have your own beliefs? Instead of ferverently attacking the basics of religion and constantly looking to disprove others beliefs? I'm tired of seeing people use factual science as ammunition against systems of thought and faith.

I believe in science too, more so than religion. I've been a university student for more years on the subject (science, not religion) than most anyone on the forums. That still doesn't give me the right to denounce someone elses faith.

Well said:werd:

Sprinter

10-26-2006, 12:35 PM

ninjak84... you sir deserve :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

sputnik

10-26-2006, 12:42 PM

Originally posted by ninjak84
I'm Roman Catholic too (lots of us in this thread), but I don't practice the faith.

Oxymoron?

If my parents were Baptist and I was an Agnostic, I wouldnt call myself a non-practicing Baptist. I would be an Agnostic Canadian. In order to say that you are one religion or another shouldnt you at least follow its teaching and believe in its doctrine?

It is this reason that the Pope gets criticized for calling out against abortion, gay marriage and birth control. These are things that have been a part of the Catholic church for a long time and Catholics are getting offended by him saying it? He is just a chosen spokesperson for the church. Not a chosen spokesperson for former Catholics who grew up Catholic but only go to mass on special occasions.

BerserkerCatSplat

10-26-2006, 02:06 PM

Originally posted by 3g4me

Go travel the world see what humanity has done for religion, go see the vatican, go see midevil gothic churches in eastern europe, go see monasteries in china's Tibet. Basically go get educated and come talk ill bet you wont be so close minded and truely ignorant.

I have. I've been to more European cathedrals and churches than I can remember the names of. They're impressive structures, yes. Wonderful architecture. Does their existence prove that a person needs religion to have morals? I think not. The unfortunate part is that they were expensive buildings built using the taxes of the impoverished citizens of the time. Give the church money, they'll put in a good word with God for you. You're dirt poor now, but don't worry - you'll be happy in the afterlife we promised you, right?

Give it a rest, man. Religion is fine in that it can help some people who need a greater being to believe in. But don't go around saying that people need religion to know right from wrong, that's a fallacy. I don't need a 2000 year old bedtime story to know right from wrong, and I'm sure you probably don't either. Especially considering all the outrageous and conflicting definitions of "right" and "wrong" in the Bible.

FiveFreshFish

10-26-2006, 08:24 PM

AsianCaucasian

10-26-2006, 08:31 PM

Originally posted by sputnik

Oxymoron?

If my parents were Baptist and I was an Agnostic, I wouldnt call myself a non-practicing Baptist. I would be an Agnostic Canadian. In order to say that you are one religion or another shouldnt you at least follow its teaching and believe in its doctrine?

It is this reason that the Pope gets criticized for calling out against abortion, gay marriage and birth control. These are things that have been a part of the Catholic church for a long time and Catholics are getting offended by him saying it? He is just a chosen spokesperson for the church. Not a chosen spokesperson for former Catholics who grew up Catholic but only go to mass on special occasions.

I agree with this statement 100%. As you mentioned earlier, most Catholics know nothing about their own religion. Out of all the so called "Catholics" that have posted so far, how many of you actually have read the Bible in its entirety, or even actually paid attention in religion classes in school? I go to a newly formed Catholic church in the NW that is just dying for support from the so called "Catholics" in the community but week after week, the school gym that we use for mass is at about 10-20% capacity. Come Easter or Christmas, it's hard to even find a seat. I'm just sick and tired of all the posers coming out and spewing out disinformation about "their" own religion.

E36M3

10-26-2006, 08:43 PM

I can't imagine reading the bible in its entirety as a rational person and still calling myself religious.. not sure if you have, but if you have and don't see the obvious contradictions present throughout then maybe it is time to give it another read (I have read several versions of the bible in their entirety, so please don't go there)

I think it may be a sign of the fact that a lot of so-called Catholics really identify themselves as such so as to not offend their family or friends more than anything, and completley compatible with a lot of the assertations of the "new" Atheist movement.

Originally posted by AsianCaucasian

I agree with this statement 100%. As you mentioned earlier, most Catholics know nothing about their own religion. Out of all the so called "Catholics" that have posted so far, how many of you actually have read the Bible in its entirety, or even actually paid attention in religion classes in school? I go to a newly formed Catholic church in the NW that is just dying for support from the so called "Catholics" in the community but week after week, the school gym that we use for mass is at about 10-20% capacity. Come Easter or Christmas, it's hard to even find a seat. I'm just sick and tired of all the posers coming out and spewing out disinformation about "their" own religion.

AsianCaucasian

10-26-2006, 09:12 PM

Originally posted by E36M3
I can't imagine reading the bible in its entirety as a rational person and still calling myself religious.. not sure if you have, but if you have and don't see the obvious contradictions present throughout then maybe it is time to give it another read (I have read several versions of the bible in their entirety, so please don't go there)

I think it may be a sign of the fact that a lot of so-called Catholics really identify themselves as such so as to not offend their family or friends more than anything, and completley compatible with a lot of the assertations of the "new" Atheist movement.

Contradictions are mainly present only in the Old Testament. Much of the OT was passed down from generation to generation by word of mouth and/or inaccurate recordings. As well, the people passing down the stories would distort or embellish it. It is similar to the childhood game 'telephone.' The New Testament, although not perfectly perserved has much less contradictions.

NGRPLZ.NET

10-26-2006, 10:22 PM

wainr

10-26-2006, 10:38 PM

Originally posted by 3g4me

I just stated my opinion. You say i insulted you lol. I was merly stating that religion is made as a guideline for good and evil. No need to get all huffed up about it. Ill tell you right now and you may flame me for it but i have something to believe in, which makes me feel good an gives me a purpose. You know what? Go travel the world see what humanity has done for religion, go see the vatican, go see midevil gothic churches in eastern europe, go see monasteries in china's Tibet. Basically go get educated and come talk ill bet you wont be so close minded and truely ignorant.

Wow.. nice holier than thou attitude. You dont need religon to know right from wrong.. and just because you believe does not make you any better than someone who does not..

Close minded??

Helo pot.. this is kettle..

:rolleyes:

boopydogg

10-27-2006, 01:38 AM

Originally posted by A_3
Richard Dawkin's arguments are full of fallicies. 'Smart people tend to be atheists'... Give me a fucking break.

.

i agree i heard a quote from Albert Einstein that went "The more i learn about this universe the more i beleive in a creator"

Originally posted by sputnik

90% of Catholics only go to mass on Easter and Christmas and have no idea what the Catholic church believes, nor do they take their faith serious enough to even consider themselves Catholic.

catholics call them C & E catholics cause they show at christmas and easter

I am a non praticing mormon (that will probally open up a can of worms saying mormon on here) and i know the doctorin and when the gay marrige law was passed i asked missionaries and bishops on what the chrurch though of this and they quoted the morom doctorin that says that we will respect the right that all people have to beleive what they want and live there lives as they see fit as long as they dont try and push it on the church.

That i think is the biggest problem that most ppl have is they push there belief's on pthers and dont respect what others beleive.
I chose not to drink or do drugs and if someone around me wants to drink i say all the power to ya and i will never say that you shouldn"t cause its your choice but the quiet religious types are not the ones that you hear about it is the freaks that think they can talk to god and he is telling them to go shoot abortion doctors or blow up innocent ppl or kill ppl based on the color of there skin.

religion is like anything else in the world and should be taken in moderation or else things can get outa control

ill end my post with another Einstein quote
"Science without religion is lame. Religion without science is blind."

A3GTiVR6SC

10-27-2006, 03:29 AM

http://img151.echo.cx/img151/6775/biblefight7gg.gif

turbotrip

10-27-2006, 04:12 AM

Originally posted by NGRPLZ.NET
I think muslims are waaaaay worse. Sorry.

haha hard to go a day without making a negative comment towards muslims or arabs huh?

khtm

10-27-2006, 08:23 AM

*Religion* is ok for some and not for others. That's the beauty of choice.

*Organized religion* is the devil and yes, whether you want to believe it or not, is responsible for pretty much every war, genocide, heck I can't even think of a single "negative" world conflict in the last 100 years that can't be boiled down to some religious conflict.

:closed:

legendboy

10-27-2006, 11:50 AM

The feeling i got from the article was the urgency of the athestic community it needing to do something before religon (directly) causes the end of the world as we know it!

There can be no doubt that religon alone is (and has been) the cause of major world problems that have (and will) affected us all.

Originally posted by BerserkerCatSplat
I think that the Eastern religions have adapted to changing times better than others. Buddhism and such have become more of a "state of mind" or set of values, as opposed to a religious system.

you must know something i do not know, when did buddhism adapt, change, become more...etc..?

cherpintow

10-27-2006, 12:01 PM

Originally posted by A_3
Richard Dawkin's arguments are full of fallicies. 'Smart people tend to be atheists'... Give me a fucking break.

I am not in any way religious, but I do believe humanity does very much need a sense of 'spirituality'. Unfortunately we live in a time where condemming religion seems like the trendy thing to do.

Everything needs to find balance, and so is the same between religion and science. Back when, everything was explained through religion. Not only was this wrong, but it was twisted and manipulated in some of the worst ways imaginable. The world lacked a pragmatic lense at which to look at the external world around them. Science was the answer to this, and we all know the wonders it has brought to our civilization.

The problem now, is that we've lost that ability to relate to our internal selves. Our world centers around what is physical and what can be explained. Religion gives us the ability to get in-touch with that which cannot logically be explained. Some of you may scoff at this, but it's more important then we tend to give it credit for. I personally believe the ability to find 'inner peace ' is one of the most important things we can achieve in our lifetime. We walk around in a society right now full of conflicted individuals. Individuals unhappy with themselves and their existence. And then we wonder why we have so many emotional, psychological crisis's in our society.

I'm generally not a fan of religion. Despite the good intentions of pretty much every religion out there, they can be easily manipulated to benefit somes individuals and control others. However, there is something below all the political bs, the idea of some power, whatever it may be, that is important.

This power does not have to be a 'god' persay. It can be whatever brings your peace and clarity. I know some people who choose to make nature their 'higher power', and I know others who choose to make it science, some even find it in, god forbid, religion. Nothing is wrong with any of these choices, no one should ever be condemmed, or insulted for them.

Like anything, an equilibrium must be found. At this moment though, the pendulum has swung to it's extreme in favour of science.

Sorry for the essay, that article got me a little heated.

Very well said.

E36M3

10-27-2006, 12:56 PM

Be careful about quoting Einstein. Taking things out of context does not constitute evidence of your point of view. Einstein was not "religious" in any traditional sense. He did not subscribe to any organized religion, and his thoughts have been made quite clear. People who do not understand what he is saying have taken it out of context to fit their own agenda:

http://www.sacred-texts.com/aor/einstein/einsci.htm

If you read the articles in the link above carefully, you will understand that he is suggesting that the way things really are is way more inspirational and awe inspiring then some human created religious system. He is proposing a "religion" without dogma, with a church and without any of the constraints of modern religion, which is exactly what the modern athiest movement is trying to achieve.

It is very easy to rely on hearsay and to misquote people, it is a lot harder to look at the true evidence and think for yourself.

Originally posted by boopydogg

i agree i heard a quote from Albert Einstein that went "The more i learn about this universe the more i beleive in a creator"

catholics call them C & E catholics cause they show at christmas and easter

I am a non praticing mormon (that will probally open up a can of worms saying mormon on here) and i know the doctorin and when the gay marrige law was passed i asked missionaries and bishops on what the chrurch though of this and they quoted the morom doctorin that says that we will respect the right that all people have to beleive what they want and live there lives as they see fit as long as they dont try and push it on the church.

That i think is the biggest problem that most ppl have is they push there belief's on pthers and dont respect what others beleive.
I chose not to drink or do drugs and if someone around me wants to drink i say all the power to ya and i will never say that you shouldn"t cause its your choice but the quiet religious types are not the ones that you hear about it is the freaks that think they can talk to god and he is telling them to go shoot abortion doctors or blow up innocent ppl or kill ppl based on the color of there skin.

religion is like anything else in the world and should be taken in moderation or else things can get outa control

ill end my post with another Einstein quote
"Science without religion is lame. Religion without science is blind."

BerserkerCatSplat

10-27-2006, 01:14 PM

Originally posted by 3g4me

Yes it does. Well better then you anyway.

Have you ever wondered where the term "Holier-than-thou" comes from?

Think about that for a minute.

AD_Runner

10-27-2006, 01:36 PM

Originally posted by 89coupe
I think the younger generations are becoming more knowledgeable and eventually religion will be phased out.

Imfao, phased out! what a big joke! Anyone who has kids that has raised them going to church and knowing what the world is about, will make sure it won't be phased out..... and people wonder what the crap is wrong with this world...

nonlinear

10-27-2006, 02:41 PM

religion is one of the worst plagues ever faced by humanity. religion is about fear and power and is used to control people.

most major religious beleifs are based upon an understanding of the world which is thousands of years old. science offers a much better (testable) understanding, and that is why we are seeing the slow replacement of traditional religious beleifs with science (e.g. pope john paul 11 admitting evolution).

and as a scientist, i should also point out that most scientists would identify as agnostic and not atheist (atheism is ascientific).

also, buddhism isn't a religion, it's a way of life :thumbsup:

wainr

10-27-2006, 02:51 PM

Originally posted by AD_Runner

Imfao, phased out! what a big joke! Anyone who has kids that has raised them going to church and knowing what the world is about, will make sure it won't be phased out..... and people wonder what the crap is wrong with this world...

The fact it keeps getting passed down to kids to keep it going is whats wrong with this world. :thumbsup:

wainr

10-27-2006, 03:02 PM

Originally posted by 3g4me
^Well at least you willing to admit that.

And there are better ways for you to express your opinion than calling people who are not religous as lower than you..

*edit

kind sir.

E36M3

10-27-2006, 03:06 PM

How sad when an interesting discussion turns into name calling.. you guys should really delete your messages and think before you type. Grow up.

pinoyhero

10-27-2006, 03:09 PM

Originally posted by 89coupe
I think the younger generations are becoming more knowledgeable and eventually religion will be phased out.

LOL, are you suggesting that knowledge = phase out of religion, I'm pretty sure there are ridiculously smart individuals who go to Church every Sunday.

Granted science is explaing a great deal about how man came about but i can't see religion ever going away, even with the increasing evidence towards darwinism. People need to and will "believe" regardless of what science tells them IMO.

01RedDX

10-27-2006, 03:10 PM

pinoyhero

10-27-2006, 03:12 PM

Originally posted by 3g4me
Sorry.

WTF?

Toms-SC

10-27-2006, 03:19 PM

Deleted my post on behalf of sputnik :thumbsup:

sputnik

10-27-2006, 03:26 PM

Can both of you just delete your posts so that we dont have to scroll back to see the last person that made an intelligent remark?

I will delete my additional posts as well.

Thanks.

Or someone can just make me a mod.

wainr

10-27-2006, 03:28 PM

Originally posted by sputnik

Or someone can just make me a mod.

:rofl: :thumbsup:

01RedDX

10-27-2006, 03:30 PM

BerserkerCatSplat

10-27-2006, 03:40 PM

Originally posted by 01RedDX
Wow you guys have re-affirmed my faith (in mankind.)

That didn't take much. ;)

89coupe

10-27-2006, 03:53 PM

I have some questions for those that believe in GOD.

If God was real, why does he allow young children, babies, mothers, the very innocent suffer from sickness, disease, rape, murder and war? Is this allmighty being some sick mother fucker who enjoys suffering?

Why do Churches ask for tithing to God? Is religion a business? Money = greed = evil??? Are we slaves to God? We work for our money only to give a 1/10th of it to God? Man, sounds like God's a pimp.

01RedDX

10-27-2006, 04:00 PM

3g4me

10-27-2006, 04:03 PM

I dont understand how there can be a whole catholic bashing thread and its o.k. but if i say the word muslim or draw a cartoon of mohamad that this whole forum goes crazy?

wainr

10-27-2006, 04:05 PM

Originally posted by 3g4me
I dont understand how there can be a whole catholic bashing thread and its o.k. but if i say the word muslim or draw a cartoon of mohamad that this whole forum goes crazy?

This is a whole other topic.. oddly enough I completely agree with you however... :eek:

89coupe

10-27-2006, 04:06 PM

Originally posted by 3g4me
I dont understand how there can be a whole catholic bashing thread and its o.k. but if i say the word muslim or draw a cartoon of mohamad that this whole forum goes crazy?

Cause they are upset that they can't enjoy the suculant meet of a pig.

In Homer's voice.

:::Mmmmmm....BBQ Pork:::
:::Mmmmmm....Bacon:::

:rofl:

89coupe

10-27-2006, 04:09 PM

Originally posted by 01RedDX
^^^Well, we did kill his son.

LOL...whatever....Jesus was some jipsy quack who liked to have a lot of sex and con people into believing he was the Son of a God that doesn't exist.

Man did he fool a lot of people.:rofl:

CantBstopped

10-27-2006, 04:40 PM

Originally posted by sputnik
Anyone find it ironic that people of all religions are criticized for acting holier than thou, yet atheists are just as bad if not worse?

Why cant atheists just be atheists and not care what other people think?

You are exactly right! If you are a true athiest, you should careless what is going on in the 'religious' world. People who consider themselves athiest yet look down upon others for following what they want to believe are concentrating to much on something that should mean nothing to them! I personaly beleive, that there is no "HIGHER POWER" but that doesn't mean I am going to go around calling everybody that does believe ignorant. Its like :banghead:

boopydogg

10-27-2006, 11:56 PM

Originally posted by E36M3
Be careful about quoting Einstein. Taking things out of context does not constitute evidence of your point of view. Einstein was not "religious" in any traditional sense. He did not subscribe to any organized religion, and his thoughts have been made quite clear. People who do not understand what he is saying have taken it out of context to fit their own agenda:

http://www.sacred-texts.com/aor/einstein/einsci.htm

If you read the articles in the link above carefully, you will understand that he is suggesting that the way things really are is way more inspirational and awe inspiring then some human created religious system. He is proposing a "religion" without dogma, with a church and without any of the constraints of modern religion, which is exactly what the modern athiest movement is trying to achieve.

It is very easy to rely on hearsay and to misquote people, it is a lot harder to look at the true evidence and think for yourself.

i quoted him not to prove that religion is the right way but to Emphisize my point that religion should be takin in moderation meaning that people shold look for the truth that fits them and makes them a better person and i understand that not everyone is going to find that in an orginised relegion but some are and some ppl are going to beleave that they are talking in toungs and things like that
I cannot say if this is true or not because it has never happend to me and i am fine with people thinking that they are as long as its not forced on me.

sputnik

10-28-2006, 09:57 AM

Originally posted by 89coupe
I have some questions for those that believe in GOD.

If God was real, why does he allow young children, babies, mothers, the very innocent suffer from sickness, disease, rape, murder and war? Is this allmighty being some sick mother fucker who enjoys suffering?

God gives everyone (including some sick mother fucker) free will. If he interviened we wouldnt have free will and we would just be robots because God would have to treat us all the same, even in the little things. Imagine trying to flip someone of on Deerfoot and all of a sudden your finger is paralyzed and a smile is forced on your face and you shout "have a nice day!".

What is better? Having free will or being a robot?

Originally posted by 89coupe
Why do Churches ask for tithing to God? Is religion a business? Money = greed = evil??? Are we slaves to God? We work for our money only to give a 1/10th of it to God? Man, sounds like God's a pimp.

Christians believe that their resourses (financial, time, skills and abilities) are a blessing or gift from God. He expects that we be faithful in recognizing this and give up a portion of it. Not just to the church but to those around us in need. If we are faithful we believe that we will be blessed in return. Christians are to be good stewards with what they have. There are church buildings to maintain and clergy to be paid, but that IMO is only a small part of it, and SHOULD only be a small part of it.

89coupe

10-28-2006, 10:12 AM

Originally posted by sputnik

God gives everyone (including some sick mother fucker) free will. If he interviened we wouldnt have free will and we would just be robots because God would have to treat us all the same, even in the little things. Imagine trying to flip someone of on Deerfoot and all of a sudden your finger is paralyzed and a smile is forced on your face and you shout "have a nice day!".

What is better? Having free will or being a robot?

Christians believe that their resourses (financial, time, skills and abilities) are a blessing or gift from God. He expects that we be faithful in recognizing this and give up a portion of it. Not just to the church but to those around us in need. If we are faithful we believe that we will be blessed in return. Christians are to be good stewards with what they have. There are church buildings to maintain and clergy to be paid, but that IMO is only a small part of it, and SHOULD only be a small part of it.

So for young children and babies who don't have any control over their well being, how can a GOD stand by and watch them suffer from disease, starvation and rape?

Sounds like a sick fuck to me, but really, I know the reason, there is no GOD.

A gift hey? Aren't gifts free? Should I be asking for 1/10th of a gifts value everytime I give one to somone?

LOL...I don't think a GOD would come up with such a stupid idea. Sounds more like a human idea.

AsianCaucasian

10-28-2006, 10:17 AM

Originally posted by 89coupe

So for young children and babies who don't have any control over their well being, how can a GOD stand by and watch them suffer from disease, starvation and rape?

Sounds like a sick fuck to me, but really, I know the reason, there is no GOD.

A gift hey? Aren't gifts free? Should I be asking for 1/10th of a gifts value everytime I give one to somone?

LOL...I don't think a GOD would come up with such a stupid idea. Sounds more like a human idea.

Funds collected from tithes usually go to charities and physical infrastructure of community churches.

89coupe

10-28-2006, 10:31 AM

Originally posted by AsianCaucasian

Funds collected from tithes usually go to charities and physical infrastructure of community churches.

I'm not trying to say that it doesn't go to good use, I'm asking why a God would ask for such a selfish demand?

What if you are very poor, do you cut a 1/10 of your bread? Again, just another human design.

A God would have no use for money? LOL

AsianCaucasian

10-28-2006, 10:41 AM

Originally posted by 89coupe

I'm not trying to say that it doesn't go to good use, I'm asking why a God would ask for such a selfish demand?

What if you are very poor, do you cut a 1/10 of your bread? Again, just another human design.

A God would have no use for money? LOL

The idea behind it is that God sacrificed his Son for the world, therefore Christians must make a sacrifice of their own for the betterment of the world. I'm pretty sure it is an institution of the Church rather than demanded by God.

kertejud

10-28-2006, 12:14 PM

Originally posted by 89coupe
If God was real, why does he allow young children, babies, mothers, the very innocent suffer from sickness, disease, rape, murder and war? Is this allmighty being some sick mother fucker who enjoys suffering?

The deity rained fire down from the skies, drowned the world, killed the first borns of Egypt and let his own son be whipped, crucified and killed. Humans were created in his image, and we seem rather fine with sadisitic destruction of life and property.

But in the words of my granny "If nothing bad happened, nothing good would happen either."

Boosted_TL

10-28-2006, 12:21 PM

Originally posted by 89coupe

LOL...whatever....Jesus was some jipsy quack who liked to have a lot of sex and con people into believing he was the Son of a God that doesn't exist.

Man did he fool a lot of people.:rofl:

LOL come on Brad?! There is, was or will never be a Jesus, Its all BS.

There is even no point in talking about this, religious convo's never end or win!

To each their own, if you wanna waste 1/2 you're life going to a church, paying tithing and believing in God, then go for it.

If you don't, well... Congrat's!

What I believe in is living you're life how you want to and enjoying it. Not argueing and wasting time about how it was in the supposid beginning.

sputnik

10-28-2006, 05:18 PM

Originally posted by 89coupe
So for young children and babies who don't have any control over their well being, how can a GOD stand by and watch them suffer from disease, starvation and rape?

Sounds like a sick fuck to me, but really, I know the reason, there is no GOD.

As hard has it is. He cannot intervene otherwise free will as we know it would be a falacy. He would essentially contradict the term.

If you want to kill and starve a baby he MUST let it happen otherwise you have no free will.

Canmorite

10-28-2006, 05:49 PM

Religion=Best MLM scam ever.

kdwebber

10-28-2006, 06:37 PM

[As hard has it is. He cannot intervene otherwise free will as we know it would be a falacy. He would essentially contradict the term.]

If you believe in God how can you believe in free will? If you don't obey God then you go to hell. How is that free will?

[If you want to kill and starve a baby he MUST let it happen otherwise you have no free will.]

Assuming God is omniscient and omnipotent, when he created the earth and adam and eve etc. etc. he knew eventually that the earth would be filled with death, destruction, war, rape, and killing or starving a baby. If God exists why would he want these kinds of things to happen? he most definetly had the foresight to be able to stop these things. If I was a religious person that would disturb me.

RiCE-DaDDy

10-28-2006, 09:04 PM

Originally posted by kdwebber

If you believe in God how can you believe in free will? If you don't obey God then you go to hell. How is that free will?

Assuming God is omniscient and omnipotent, when he created the earth and adam and eve etc. etc. he knew eventually that the earth would be filled with death, destruction, war, rape, and killing or starving a baby. If God exists why would he want these kinds of things to happen? he most definetly had the foresight to be able to stop these things. If I was a religious person that would disturb me.

The argument is us humans cannot possible begin to comprehend and understand God, to be able to is equating humans to God's level.

And as your free will statement, think bout what you said, u already stated the choice you have to make.

Super_Geo

10-29-2006, 11:34 AM

Originally posted by AsianCaucasian

Funds collected from tithes usually go to charities and physical infrastructure of community churches.

... or starting crusades ;)

NGRPLZ.NET

10-29-2006, 11:38 AM

Originally posted by Super_Geo

... or starting crusades ;) Good, it's about time. Who do I make the cheque out to?

It's even funnier that people on this board who are Christian get picked on, but the wierdo muslims here are free to post all of their religious hogwash and people will accept it because they are a "minority". Yeah, lick my shithole bitch.

Super_Geo

10-29-2006, 11:40 AM

Originally posted by CantBstopped

You are exactly right! If you are a true athiest, you should careless what is going on in the 'religious' world. People who consider themselves athiest yet look down upon others for following what they want to believe are concentrating to much on something that should mean nothing to them! I personaly beleive, that there is no "HIGHER POWER" but that doesn't mean I am going to go around calling everybody that does believe ignorant. Its like :banghead:

Because sometimes religoius people let their beliefs affect the rest of society... and when it gets to that point then it becomes an issue for everyone. For example:

- Ban on abortion
- Suppress the rights of minority groups (historically more than recently in terms of race, very recently in terms of sexuality (gay marriage, etc))
- Trying to bring creationism into the science curriculum :eek:

Like I said before, I know a lot of very well educated and intelligent religoius people (though most of them are 'liberal' with how they interperate it), but the militant ones who feel that they must rid the country of all of these 'sins' (ex: equal rights for all people) make me sick. Really, how are people so simple minded? I can't even begin to fathom how little goes on in those small little heads of theirs.

nhlfan

10-29-2006, 02:25 PM