Scientology What do you think?

[v2kai]

as it says.....i'm curious to what this is, and from what i've seen so far it seems pretty laughable. anybody have some solid info on this subject? i download an anti-scientology vid called bridge if anyone else has seen that, seen a few clips on youtube, couple are pretty funny. and of course heard about Tom cruise yada yada yada

i'll post some links to vids later....gotta head to school, just wondering what everyone thinks or has for solid facts.

know any scientologists personally???;) ...open thread start posting w/e comes to mind, opinions, facts, sources etc

[natejj]

go read up on it in Wikipedia.... lots of information

[Si_FlyGuy]

Southpark had a really good coles notes low down on scientology. :rofl:

[Cruz]

Originally posted by natejj
go read up on it in Wikipedia.... lots of information

+1 :thumbsup:

Xenu and Body Thetans

Among these advanced teachings, one episode revealed to those who reach OT level III has been much remarked upon: the story of Xenu and his Galactic Confederacy. Xenu (sometimes Xemu) is introduced as an alien ruler of the "Galactic Confederacy" who, 75 million years ago, brought billions of people to Earth in spacecraft resembling Douglas DC-8 airliners, stacked them around volcanoes and blew them up with hydrogen bombs. Their souls then clustered together and stuck to the bodies of the living. The alien souls continue to do this today, causing a variety of physical ill-effects in modern-day humans.

[Super_Geo]

Scientology's only real use to society is to function as a quick people check. If someone claims to be a scientologist, you know their IQ is < 90.

[v2kai]

lol i'll read up sounds awesome :rofl: Wikipedia it is
i noticed on the site they also have a church locator thing.....
there were no churchs within a 100 miles of my location lol dont think much of alberta takes to it

[accord885]

There was a Scientology book store in Halifax when I was there last.

[jcrules99]

Originally posted by Cruz


+1 :thumbsup:

Xenu and Body Thetans

Among these advanced teachings, one episode revealed to those who reach OT level III has been much remarked upon: the story of Xenu and his Galactic Confederacy. Xenu (sometimes Xemu) is introduced as an alien ruler of the &quot;Galactic Confederacy&quot; who, 75 million years ago, brought billions of people to Earth in spacecraft resembling Douglas DC-8 airliners, stacked them around volcanoes and blew them up with hydrogen bombs. Their souls then clustered together and stuck to the bodies of the living. The alien souls continue to do this today, causing a variety of physical ill-effects in modern-day humans.

wow, you cant be serious...

[Si_FlyGuy]

I think there's one in Edmonton. I remember driving by one in Seattle, and no joke, there were these two guys with identical clothes and beards outside with one of those contraptions that you stick your arms through. The sign said something about a stress test. :nut:

[rx7girlie]

I saw a 48 Hours Mystery show on the weekend, it was about Scientology. Specifically, a story about a very high ranked OT III or something like that, husband and wife.

Anyways.... they have 2 children, the boy who at ~20yoa or older starts to have paranoid schizophrenia-like behavior (ie- he has schizophrenia). BUT because scientologists are rooted in their anti-pyschology lifestyle, mom chooses to do anything but give anti-psycotics. Well, a few years later, when the boy has full blown paranoid schizophrenia, guess what? He stabs his mom 44 times.

The irony? Had the boy recieved anti-psycotics, mom would certainly be alive. Plus, those high level Operating Thetans are told once they reach these levels, they are immune to illnesses and the tragities of life (such as murder or poverty etc...)

Riiiiiiiight.

[rx7girlie]

Originally posted by Si_FlyGuy
The sign said something about a stress test. :nut:

Yeah! haha. It's called an E-meter. I think they use these free stress-tests to show you that you are stressed or unbalanced.

After a free session, where they work their mumbo-jumbo therapy on you, you "feel" better, on the show I saw, some ex-members said almost euphoric, and then they rope you in!

I may be wrong, but the idea I guess is to work to keep the little needle/guage from boucing around too much. They you start to reach these higher levels through this, $$ and courses.

[szw]

Doesn't sound any less believable than any other religion.

[pinoyhero]

^well put I was waiting for someone to post that.

[BerserkerCatSplat]

www.xenu.net

[sexualbanana]

Originally posted by jcrules99


wow, you cant be serious...

Oh they're serious. The onlly problem is not a lot of actual Scientologists will tell you much about it because you have to be one of the super-elite Scientologists. Of course the only way to get to that level is to pay a total of about $200 000 to reach that level (assuming you're starting from the very bottom of the Scientology ladder).

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/3/38/South_Park_Xenu.jpg

A funny thing I find about Scientology is the name. Essentially, it means the science of science. The irony being there's nothing scientific about it, nor do they even believe in any science.

[NGRPLZ.NET]

UGh.. they're all going to hell.

[Nissanaddict]

Was Scientology not created on a bet?

[RiCE-DaDDy]

Originally posted by sexualbanana


Oh they're serious. The onlly problem is not a lot of actual Scientologists will tell you much about it because you have to be one of the super-elite Scientologists. Of course the only way to get to that level is to pay a total of about $200 000 to reach that level (assuming you're starting from the very bottom of the Scientology ladder).

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/3/38/South_Park_Xenu.jpg

A funny thing I find about Scientology is the name. Essentially, it means the science of science. The irony being there's nothing scientific about it, nor do they even believe in any science.

study or theory of science makes more sense but yea totally retarded haha.

[thrasher22]

Originally posted by szw
Doesn't sound any less believable than any other religion.

The difference is we actually know it was based on a sci-fi novel...

[ogpog]

Scientology = :rofl:

[Super_Geo]

Originally posted by rx7girlie
Anyways.... they have 2 children, the boy who at ~20yoa or older starts to have paranoid schizophrenia-like behavior (ie- he has schizophrenia). BUT because scientologists are rooted in their anti-pyschology lifestyle, mom chooses to do anything but give anti-psycotics. Well, a few years later, when the boy has full blown paranoid schizophrenia, guess what? He stabs his mom 44 times.

That'll teach her. Stupid bitch.

[TKRIS]

The only difference between the rediculous crap the scientologists believe, and the rediculous crap Catholics, Muslims, Jews, etc. believe, is time.

Scientology makes no claims more outragous than those preached, and widely accepted, in any temple, church or mosque anywhere in the world.

If L.Ron Hubbard had written his books and made his crap up a thousand years ago, it'd probably be just as accepted as any other theistic superstitions we have today (presuming he'd been able to sell it to the masses, like other religions were able to do).

Who knows. Maybe in a thousand years we'll all be making fun of the religions of our day. Maybe, in a historical sense, Tom Cruise will end up being our generations Constantine.

It's like dog shit.
It only stinks when it's new.


Kris

P.S. If you feel I've offended your religious beliefs, keep in mind that I don't really care before trying to attack me and defend an indefensible position.

[yellowsnow]

Originally posted by TKRIS
The only difference between the rediculous crap the scientologists believe, and the rediculous crap Catholics, Muslims, Jews, etc. believe, is time.

Scientology makes no claims more outragous than those preached, and widely accepted, in any temple, church or mosque anywhere in the world.

If L.Ron Hubbard had written his books and made his crap up a thousand years ago, it'd probably be just as accepted as any other theistic superstitions we have today (presuming he'd been able to sell it to the masses, like other religions were able to do).

Who knows. Maybe in a thousand years we'll all be making fun of the religions of our day. Maybe, in a historical sense, Tom Cruise will end up being our generations Constantine.

It's like dog shit.
It only stinks when it's new.


Kris

P.S. If you feel I've offended your religious beliefs, keep in mind that I don't really care before trying to attack me and defend an indefensible position.

wow.. i feel a little dumber after reading your post. shit :cry:

[Tik-Tok]

Originally posted by Nissanaddict
Was Scientology not created on a bet?


Wasn't a bet, but L.Ron Hubbard was science fiction writer (go figure), and he was once quoted as saying something to the effect of "The fastest way to get rich in America, was to start your own religion"

Lets just say he died a rich man.

Did you know Beck is a scientologist? (More accurately his parents, but since they are, he automatically became one:rofl: )

[TKRIS]

Originally posted by yellowsnow


wow.. i feel a little dumber after reading your post. shit :cry:

Care to provide an example of anything Scientologists believe in that's any more irrational than anything Christianity teaches?

Xenu and the Galactic Conference v.s Invisible man in the sky?
Body Thetans vs. Noah's Ark?
For my money, it's a wash.
It's like arguing that mermaid steak tastes better than unicorn steak.

I will say, however, that conventional religions have the advantage, as they generally contain a positive message. Scientology lacks this redeeming feature, common among most other religions, and is primarily destructive to the follower in the long run.

If you want to hate on scientology, that's just fine. I do it all the time. Just don't be a hypocrite about why you're hating on it.
Just don't bitch about how stupid the idea of aliens is while on your way to a big building where an old guy in a funny hat is going to wave his hands and sing about how the Earth was created in 6 days.

Kris

[yellowsnow]

I find arguing with people about religion really heated and usually ends nowhere. so there's really no point.

yeah i'm a christian. i see other relgions as incorrect... or else how would i be a good christian. you don't critisize me, i don't do it to you.

i'm not trying create any controversy, just i think your comparison with scientology and christianity pretty ludacrous. i mean i just look at fricken tom cruise now, and all i see is a crazy man, and poor katie holmes.

i don't see anything good about scientology at all

[Super_Geo]

Originally posted by TKRIS
Just don't bitch about how stupid the idea of aliens is while on your way to a big building where an old guy in a funny hat is going to wave his hands and sing about how the Earth was created in 6 days.

:rofl: :thumbsup:

[Cruz]

Originally posted by TKRIS


It's like arguing that mermaid steak tastes better than unicorn steak.


The difference is that mermaid steak is chewy and tastes like emu, whereas unicorn is well marbled and is almost sea-lion like in flavour.

Trust me, I've had both.

[yellowsnow]

i had my share of seasoned unicorn horns. they're softer than they look :drool:

[Cruz]

He looked so peaceful before yellowsnow got to him, poor bastard.


http://photos.viczhang.com/images/20050410142822_20050410-unicorn-900x600.jpg

[sputnik]

Originally posted by Tik-Tok
Did you know Beck is a scientologist? (More accurately his parents, but since they are, he automatically became one:rofl: )

Actually he chose to be a Scientologist (even though his dad is one). He is also marrying Giovani Ribisi's twin sister who is another second generation Scientologist.

He was interviewed about it on The Hour a few weeks ago.

[TKRIS]

Originally posted by yellowsnow
I find arguing with people about religion really heated and usually ends nowhere. so there's really no point.

yeah i'm a christian. i see other relgions as incorrect... or else how would i be a good christian. you don't critisize me, i don't do it to you.

Good way to look at it.
However, that doesn't mean that I'm not allowed to make fun of your religion. It just means that I must be prepared for you to respond in kind.
That said, here's the problem with you taking this tact:
You can't make fun of my religion, because I don't have any.
By saying
"i see other religions as incorrect" you're critisizing everyone who doesn't believe in the same "Invisible man in the sky" as you do, and are therefore open to rebuttle from any of these people, including scientologists.


Originally posted by yellowsnow

i'm not trying create any controversy, just i think your comparison with scientology and christianity pretty ludacrous. i mean i just look at fricken tom cruise now, and all i see is a crazy man, and poor katie holmes.

See, a perfect example of this hypocrasy is show above.
"I don't belittle your religion so you're not allowed to belittle mine. However, your religion is wrong and is full of crazy idiots."

How is my comparison between the crazy illogical stuff taught in church and the crazy illogical stuff taught in scientology not valid?
Hell, there's no proof that Body Thetans don't exist. There is, however, proof that the world wasn't completely covered in water for a year due to a massive genocidal flood.


Originally posted by yellowsnow

i don't see anything good about scientology at all

Neither do I, as I illustrated in my last post.

All I'm saying is that you should be careful why you make fun of people.
If you believe in an invisible man in the sky named Bob, you shouldn't make scoff at people for believing in invisible men in the sky named Jim.

Like I said before, hold them in contempt for being a destructive force all you want, but don't be a hypocrite.

Still feel a little dumber after reading my posts?
I certainly hope so, because that will show that you've understood.

Kris

[msommers]

Originally posted by Cruz


The difference is that mermaid steak is chewy and tastes like emu, whereas unicorn is well marbled and is almost sea-lion like in flavour.

Trust me, I've had both.

You guys ain't got shit unless you've tried tig-ion tenderloin

[ICEBERG]

Some people think Scientology is a CULT. But then again how do you define religion? Isn't Xenu their god or something.

[ICEBERG]

Hey, i was thinking if L. Ron Hubbard can do it, so can I.

Sure, most mainstream religions are rooted in moments that happened thousands of years ago. But if a science fiction writer who was born in the last century can take a book that he’s written and turn it into an oft-publicized religion and get famous people like John Travolta and Jenna Elfman and Tom Cruise to join it… Then my own religion can succeed just as well.

Now i just have to come up with a name.:D

[ricosuave]

'scientology' and 'think' shouldnt be in the same sentence

[Ben]

.

[creeper]

Some Beyonders find the idea of an alien overlord bringing people to earth outlandish. But at the same time, it doesn't seem outlandish at all that the earth was created in a few days by an all-mighty god, when we know that this is incorrect? Seems like regardless of the religious affiliation you have, you disregard science. A bit of a double standard if you ask me. You can't make fun of another religion, if you are religious, because they are all just as ludicrous. If you were a little kid and had no idea what religion was all about, and someone told you the 'plot' of [any] bible, you would laugh, and say it sounds like a crazy story.

Don't argue with me either, just go read. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evidence_of_evolution)

[rx7_turbo2]

Originally posted by yellowsnow

yeah i'm a christian. i see other relgions as incorrect... or else how would i be a good christian.

Ladies and Gentlemen may I present the reason for nearly every war ever waged.

I do not believe in God, I went to Catholic school and church every sunday for the majority of my life, and in my opinion the nonsense that's spewed by Scientologists is no worse, or "out there" than the nonsense quoted out of the Catholic Bible and a regular basis.

[GTS Jeff]

First he slams other religions:


Originally posted by yellowsnow
i see other relgions as incorrect... or else how would i be a good christian.

Then he backpedals a bit and claims that he doesn't critisize anyone:


Originally posted by yellowsnow
you don't critisize me, i don't do it to you.

But after that, he goes back to critisizing:


Originally posted by yellowsnow
i don't see anything good about scientology at all

Yellowsnow, I love how guys like TKRIS, with a single post, can reduce guys like you into incoherent and contradictory simps.

[Charon]

Watch this video

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=1083100102009309014&q=Scientology

Those guys are f'ing bonkers. Looks like they would be fun to mess with.

[Super_Geo]

Originally posted by Charon
Watch this video

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=1083100102009309014&amp;q=Scientology

Those guys are f'ing bonkers. Looks like they would be fun to mess with.

Holy fuck me upside down... those guys are fucking deranged!

!!

Someone needs to run over their entire families.

[Murphy]

Well fuck me Freddy! Fuckin scientology. For that matter, most religions. There is nothing wrong with a little direction or spiritualism in your life, but too many people waste their lives, although I guess its all relevant eh. They probaly say the same thing about me!?:nut: :rofl:

[Murphy]

Originally posted by Si_FlyGuy
Southpark had a really good coles notes low down on scientology. :rofl:

South Park FTMFW! :rofl: :thumbsup:

[BigMass]

Originally posted by Super_Geo


Holy fuck me upside down... those guys are fucking deranged!

!!

Someone needs to run over their entire families.

First off if they paid money to turn that street into a temporary private party its their right to let in who they want. Whites only, blacks only, Jews only, Scientologists only. If it was public then the guy had a point.

Secondly to harass someone's beliefs at their own gathering, obviously people are going to get pissed at that. No matter how stupid their beliefs may be. The camera man is just like Michael Moore, a shit disturber.

While i dont agree with Scientology, i applaud the US for still giving people the freedom of religion, expression and speech, which is more than i can say for Canada.

If i taped every argument you or myself have ever had, we'd all come across like idiots at some point. So that clip really tells me nothing. The camera man came across more like an idiot than the people he was talking to. It’s like a Neo Nazi going into a synagogue with a Camera telling Jews they’re the sons of Satan and recording the Jews yelling and screaming at him to get the fuck out. Would you blame them?

[kertejud]

Originally posted by BigMass

While i dont agree with Scientology, i applaud the US for still giving people the freedom of religion, expression and speech, which is more than i can say for Canada.

Huh?

[5hift]

I by no means support or believe in Scientology, but like all relgions, cults etc, its simply man's way of trying to explain the unknown. Its easier to not question and follow the masses than it is to try to understand something that technology and science still cannot explain to this day.

When on the outside looking in, no religion seems logical and always involves some sort of miracle or unbelivable events. Look at Christianity. Most popular religion in Canada based on the stories of the son of God coming to earth in human form to walk on water and turn water to wine. Yeah okk.... :rolleyes: Isnt this the same religion that burned millions of woman at the stake claiming they were witches for being educated or questioning the church? Same church that refused to accept that the world was round and part of a planetary system? Same church that refuses to accept discoveries by science that contradict ancient beliefs?

Religion is nothing more than the ideas of a creative few imposed on the sheeplike masses that simply want an explaination. There's a reason why as science and technology continues to improve, the influence and belief of the church system continues to get weaker and weaker.

[frostyda9]

A quote from Rev. Lovejoy on the Simpsons:

"This so called new religion is nothing but a pack of weird rituals and chants designed to take away the money of fools. Let us say the Lord’s prayer 40 times, but first let’s pass the collection plate"

[KenP]

Would you practice a religion based off some movies and crappy sci fi books? :confused:

Seems like a bunch of hocus pocus to me, even more so than real religions. :dunno:

[Mauser]

I wouldn't mess around with $cientology. One thing the cult does have is cash.

Scientology has a Office of Special Affairs, as hinted to in the video. The OSA will spend money investigating anyone who is critical of Scientology.

Scientology's OSA searches for dirt, and spins that information in an attempt to damage a persons character.

Cheated on a former flame? Pissed off Scientology? A group of cultists will show up outside your residence or work, shouting and holding picket signs with snappy slogan's along the lines of "_____ is an Adulterer!". They will also come up with intresting little flyers about your 'crimes' to distribute to anyone who will take one.

Once neighbors or passerby's phone the police the cultists usually cease and wander off. Scientology doesn't want people telling other people their negative opinions on the cult.

One other tactic the OSA often engages in to silence critical viewpoints, is by abusing the legal system. If you do something to upset Scientology, they will file frivlous lawsuit, after lawsuit against you. Forcing you to waste money contacting a lawyer in order to respond to thier allegations.

If Scientologists come across this forum thread, take offence, and pass it on, it could end with Beyond's owner being served with a Cease and desist order, labled an enemy of scientology and protested and portrayed as being a bigot.

The actions Scientology uses to try to silence critical view points are just crazy.

[doanashk]

Originally posted by GTS Jeff

Yellowsnow, I love how guys like TKRIS, with a single post, can reduce guys like you into incoherent and contradictory simps.

You mean guys like TKRIS who seem to think they are the world's answer to religious debate. Who also seem to love arguing over nothing and spit uncalled-for patronizing comments onto others all for the sake of intellectual domination, but fail due to extreme arrogance? Someone is compensating for something me thinks!

Ya... he sure does get those "simps"!!

In fact I'm pretty sure if TKRIS really wanted to he could make YOU feel like YOUR opinions and beliefs are nothing but bread crumbs on the floor of a philosophical conversation. After all he is a well educated fact monger.
'Cause really, aren't we all "simps", when we aren't trying to prove ourselves?

Lighten up, smarten up, and for goodness sake it wouldn't hurt to get that damned chip off your shoulder.

And now back to your regular scheduled thread....

:thumbsup:

[yellowsnow]

Originally posted by GTS Jeff
First he slams other religions:


Then he backpedals a bit and claims that he doesn't critisize anyone:


But after that, he goes back to critisizing:


Yellowsnow, I love how guys like TKRIS, with a single post, can reduce guys like you into incoherent and contradictory simps.

HEATHEN! BLASPHEMY!! :whipped:

lol yea, i know once i label myself as a christian, i'm a target for everyone's ridicule.. but meh, you're not the first one. u obviously have some deep hate towards religion... hey good for you. i honestly don't really care what you do. sorry if i offended you :dunno: i'll be the first to say christians are all hypocrites.. no one can be perfect (although i'm damn near close :D)

and no i wasn't cristising, those are my opinions only that scientology is just a bunch of crazy people. i'm not 'critising' anything. there's a big difference there


Originally posted by rx7_turbo2
Ladies and Gentlemen may I present the reason for nearly every war ever waged

yeah, i agree war fought in the name of religion is stupid. that's honestly not how we're suppose to behave.

[TKRIS]

Originally posted by doanashk


You mean guys like TKRIS who seem to think they are the world's answer to religious debate. Who also seem to love arguing over nothing and spit uncalled-for patronizing comments onto others all for the sake of intellectual domination, but fail due to extreme arrogance? Someone is compensating for something me thinks!

I wouldn't call debating religion "arguing over nothing".
If you don't want to have your opinions rediculed and mocked in an open forum, I suggest you either stay away from keyboards, or be able to back your shit up.
Feel free to criticise the hell out of anything *I* say if you'd like, but be prepared for me to come back at you. That's how debates work. You argue your side, I augue my side, you try to find flaws in my reasoning, I try to find flaws in your reasoning.
If your best rebuttle to my arguments is "You're a big meany", then we'll leave it at that.
You're right though: I can be an ass. You're so perceptive.
But being an ass doesn't make me wrong. Likewise, winning an argument doesn't make me right.
The best way to avoid having some asshole demean your opinions is to make sure your opinions are well founded. I might be a hot head, but I don't provide my own fuel.

As far as compensation goes: I have a 472 cid. V8; that's enough compensation, even for me. :)


Originally posted by doanashk
Ya... he sure does get those &quot;simps&quot;!!

In fact I'm pretty sure if TKRIS really wanted to he could make YOU feel like YOUR opinions and beliefs are nothing but bread crumbs on the floor of a philosophical conversation. After all he is a well educated fact monger.
'Cause really, aren't we all &quot;simps&quot;, when we aren't trying to prove ourselves?

Lighten up, smarten up, and for goodness sake it wouldn't hurt to get that damned chip off your shoulder.

And now back to your regular scheduled thread....

:thumbsup:

Kris

P.S. I'm going to go ahead and take the "fact-monger" comment as a compliment.

[Tik-Tok]

Originally posted by Mauser

The actions Scientology uses to try to silence critical view points are just crazy.


Out of curiousity, was the Bush administration scientologists between 2001 and 2005?

[DonJuan]

To get slightly back on topic; to whoever that said that Scientology is a religion that just hadn't had time, shit only stinks when it's fresh, or something along those lines. Why not look at Hubbard as some sort of crazy ass, child molesting, modern Nostradamus? The problem I have with scientology is that it is billed as an "alternative to psychology" and after years or payments then the true message is revealed. That is alot of bullshit. So therefore it is some sort of scam that allows idiots to slowly abandon their beliefs in common medical practices until they are suckered into the lord Zenu shit.

Now before you say somthing about Christan/Prodestant church and Tithes (medeival tax by the church) to justify this money being taken from people, you have to realize that the church at this time had a monopoly over the people and church and state were not seperate entities. In fact it was more often than not corrupt, hence the reason for the Prodestant Reformation. And no dont get me started on the Mormons.

Christianity has is crusades, Isalm has it's jihads, blah blah blah. People get pissed off and start wars in the name of religion. Now lets just say "too each their own" and continue toward Nirvana (Not Kurt Cobain, Nirvana ugh i give up)

End rant.

PS: to whoever mentioned Tom Cruise as the new Constantine; did you mean Constantine the exorcist Keanu Reeves played? or Constantine I, the last pagan emporer of Rome who combined his pagan ideals with Christianity and was baptized on his death bed?

[Super_Geo]

Scientologists = I want to punch you in the face.

End of story.

[TKRIS]

Originally posted by DonJuan
To get slightly back on topic; to whoever that said that Scientology is a religion that just hadn't had time, shit only stinks when it's fresh, or something along those lines.

That was me.


Originally posted by DonJuan

Why not look at Hubbard as some sort of crazy ass, child molesting, modern Nostradamus? The problem I have with scientology is that it is billed as an &quot;alternative to psychology&quot; and after years or payments then the true message is revealed. That is alot of bullshit. So therefore it is some sort of scam that allows idiots to slowly abandon their beliefs in common medical practices until they are suckered into the lord Zenu shit.

Absolutely. Scientology, IMHO, is destructive and makes people worse, as oppose to current religions who tend to have redeeming features and positive messages (by and large).


Originally posted by DonJuan

Now before you say somthing about Christan/Prodestant church and Tithes (medeival tax by the church) to justify this money being taken from people, you have to realize that the church at this time had a monopoly over the people and church and state were not seperate entities. In fact it was more often than not corrupt, hence the reason for the Prodestant Reformation. And no dont get me started on the Mormons.

Christianity has is crusades, Isalm has it's jihads, blah blah blah. People get pissed off and start wars in the name of religion. Now lets just say &quot;too each their own&quot; and continue toward Nirvana (Not Kurt Cobain, Nirvana ugh i give up)

End rant.

PS: to whoever mentioned Tom Cruise as the new Constantine; did you mean Constantine the exorcist Keanu Reeves played? or Constantine I, the last pagan emporer of Rome who combined his pagan ideals with Christianity and was baptized on his death bed?

Me again, and no I wasn't talking about that shitty movie.

Granted, Constantine (dispite beliefs to the contrary) wasn't actually a Christian, but instead used Christianity's rise to power to secure his own reign, and Tom Cruise, by contrast, certainly seems to believe in the Xenu stuff.
The analogy isn't a perfect one. It was meant more as a joke than an actual proposition.

Isn't it funny though, that the people who subscribe to this "alternative to psychology" crap seem to, quite quickly, go batshit crazy?

Kris

[kerry]

Originally posted by TKRIS


As far as compensation goes: I have a 472 cid. V8; that's enough compensation, even for me. :)




I'm still trying to figure why you said that... I know you were trying
to "come back" to when she said you were "compensating" but
do well all really need to know you have a v8?

Oh and next time you're out looking up info to validate your arguments
on beyond... I'd suggest looking up a dictionary and double-checking
your post for any REDICULOUS errors.

Jackass.

Oh and if you're wondering why I didn't post about scientology.

Just really don't care... had a laugh at you though =)

Yellowsnow and Doanashk FTW

[doanashk]

Originally posted by TKRIS


I wouldn't call debating religion &quot;arguing over nothing&quot;.

I agree, I believe that religious debate and coversation is healthy and very relevant. I had a problem with the way the conversation in this particular case was going.


Originally posted by TKRIS
If you don't want to have your opinions rediculed and mocked in an open forum, I suggest you either stay away from keyboards, or be able to back your shit up.

I never gave you my opinions other then how I saw the situation ending up. If you want to be the smartest and the most educated then just say I am the smartest and most educated. As for an open forum, I know exactly how it works and I felt free enough to say what was on my mind. I can and will back my "shit" up if you'd like. I do not know enough about any religion to get involved in the facts and pros and cons, as I am agnostic and have found no intrigue in any religion either way. But I know a hell of a lot about debate and conversation so we'll go from there.


Originally posted by TKRIS
Feel free to criticise the hell out of anything *I* say if you'd like, but be prepared for me to come back at you.

This is exactly what I mean. Instead of an open invitation to discussion you have tried to push brain matter around to be on top. If you know your stuff that should be merit enough and you should be confident enough to speak politely and openly. The use of this sentence only leads me to believe you are not as well versed as you seem.



Originally posted by TKRIS
You're right though: I can be an ass. You're so perceptive.

Thank you, I know I am perceptive!!


Originally posted by TKRIS
But being an ass doesn't make me wrong. Likewise, winning an argument doesn't make me right.

You are right it doesn't make you wrong it just makes you less credible. It can become hard to listen when arrogance gets in the way.


Originally posted by TKRIS
I might be a hot head, but I don't provide my own fuel.

^^ MMMK!? I don't get this statement so I'm not goin to touch it.


Originally posted by TKRIS
As far as compensation goes: I have a 472 cid. V8; that's enough compensation, even for me. :)

That's good to know seeing as this is a car forum but I was actually referring to something else :thumbsup:




Originally posted by TKRIS
P.S. I'm going to go ahead and take the &quot;fact-monger&quot; comment as a compliment.

Ok you go ahead and do that. I see this all time. "Hey let's discuss religion and/or politics" then someone always goes into the I'm smarter then everyone routine. It's a pet peeve. I look forward to hearing your rebuttle.
:devil:

[TKRIS]

Originally posted by doanashk


I agree, I believe that religious debate and coversation is healthy and very relevant. I had a problem with the way the conversation in this particular case was going.

Why? because I wasn't polite?


Originally posted by doanashk

I never gave you my opinions other then how I saw the situation ending up. If you want to be the smartest and the most educated then just say I am the smartest and most educated.

I didn't claimed to be the smartest. I sure as hell didn't claim to be the best educated.
I'm not sure where you're getting this, but I suspect it has more to do with how you're reading my posts, as oppose to how I'm writing them.


Originally posted by doanashk

As for an open forum, I know exactly how it works and I felt free enough to say what was on my mind. I can and will back my &quot;shit&quot; up if you'd like.

All you've done thus far is call me an arogant prick.
Not at all a position that difficult to understand, nor is it one I'll bother to refute.
That said, you don't know me, and I'm sure you don't want to, so we'll leave it at that.



Originally posted by doanashk

I do not know enough about any religion to get involved in the facts and pros and cons, as I am agnostic andhave found no intrigue in any religion either way. ut I know a hell oof a lot about debate and conversation so we'll go from there.

OK, so you just stopped by to tell me I'm an asshole. That's fine.


Originally posted by doanashk

This is exactly what I mean. Instead of an open invitation to discussion you have tried to push brain matter around to be on top. If you know your stuff that should be merit enough and you should be confident enough to speak politely and openly. The use of this sentence only leads me to believe you are not as well versed as you seem.


What?!?
First, you say you understand how debate works, then you imply I'm somehow cheating, or being dishonest, if I argue against your points and argue for my own?
This is exactly what an invitation to discuss is for God's sake.
If you want to refute any of my points, feel free. However, know that I will do the same to yours.

Additionally, when did it become a rule that I had to be polite?
If you choose to dismiss my arguments because I'm rude, then that's your perogative. However, you're dismissing them based on your perceptions of how they were presented, and not on their actual merit.
Feel free to go through life only accepting ideas that you find agreeable, if you'd like, but don't pretend that I should present my ideas to fit your notions of what is agreeable, or nice, or polite, in order to garner credibility.
I prefer to present my arguments however I see fit, and let them either stand or fall based on their merit, not your delicate sensibilities.


Originally posted by doanashk


Originally posted by TKRIS
You're right though: I can be an ass. You're so perceptive.

Thank you, I know I am perceptive!!


Originally posted by TKRIS
But being an ass doesn't make me wrong. Likewise, winning an argument doesn't make me right.[/B]

You are right it does't make you wrog it just makes you less credible. It can become hard to listen when arrogance gets in the way.[/B]

It only makes me less credible because you've shown that you're more likely to judge arguments with your gut, as oppose to your brain.


Originally posted by doanashk


Originally posted by TKRIS
I might be a hot head, but I don't provide my own fuel.

^^ MMMK!? I don't get this statement so I'm not goin to touch it.[/B]

What I mean is that while I may be quick to knock down other people's arguments on occasion, I wouldn't be able to do so if the arguments were well founded.
Present some ideas and arguments that actually hold water, and I* won't be able to discredit them so easily and quickly.
If you present flawed arguments, don't blame the flaws on the guy who points them out. They're your** arguments.


Originally posted by doanashk


Originally posted by TKRIS
As far as compensation goes: I have a 472 cid. V8; that's enough compensation, even for me. :)

That's good to know seeing as this is a car forum but I was actually referring to something else :thumbsup: [/B]

It was a joke. Big Cubic Inches=Big Compensation. A little self-depricating humor.



Originally posted by doanashk


Originally posted by TKRIS
P.S. I'm going to go ahead and take the &amp;quot;fact-monger&amp;quot; comment as a compliment.

Ok you go ahead and do that. I see this all time. &quot;Hey let's discuss religion and/or politics&quot; then someone always goes into the I'm smarter then everyone routine. It's a pet peeve. I look forward to hearing your rebuttle.
:devil: [/B]

"Hey, let's discuss religion/politics. Here's my theory, blah blah blah."
"Well, here's why that doesn't make sense, blah blah blah."
"Hey! You can't just say shit like that. I find it offensive. It wasn't nice. You were mean to me. I'm right and you're wrong and that's that. You're an asshole.***"

*-By "I", I mean "The person you're arguing with", not "I" personally.

**- By "your", I mean the collective "Your", not "you" in particular.

***-By "You're an asshole", I'm refering to what people like to say when they have no valid retorts to arguments made but refuse to budge from a poisition that's been shown to be deeply flawed.

I suggest that, if you choose to continue with this conversation, we do it somewhere other than this thread, and we're draggin it pretty far off topic.

Kris

P.S. I don't have any problem with yellowsnow (who I've been arguing with in this thread), and I'm certain he's not sitting around stewing over my remarks. I'm sure he's cool as shit and probably a great guy to have a beer with. It was an internet debate. That's not the type of thing I usually take personally or hold grudges over. I'm sure any reasonable person is the same.

You will notice, however, that my most stinging comment was a turnaround from his initial post, implying that by simply reading my post, he'd become dumber. I didn't attack anyone out of turn.
Just because I have an unpopular, or politically incorrect, opinion doesn't make me the bad guy.

[Dooms_Bane]

lol i'm still curious.... there are groups out there like the KKK... and what not... buy ya..

does anyone think there is going to be some form of Anti scientology gang?

[DonJuan]

^ lol it's called the REALITY gang :D LOL!

As far as the kkk having a chapter in Red Deer; I always thought they did, I dunno if they still do.

[doanashk]

Originally posted by TKRIS

All you've done thus far is call me an arogant prick.
Not at all a position that difficult to understand, nor is it one I'll bother to refute.
That said, you don't know me, and I'm sure you don't want to, so we'll leave it at that..

It wasn't a personal attack, I apologize if it came across that way. I am sure the points you have are valid. All I was trying to point out was that in order to be heard you must listen first.



Originally posted by TKRIS
OK, so you just stopped by to tell me I'm an asshole. That's fine..

Not once was I trying to tell you that. In fact I'm happy that you read my points it means you are willing to discuss. I was just mentioning that it seemed as though the fight to be right was undermining the actual conversation.




Originally posted by TKRIS
Additionally, when did it become a rule that I had to be polite?
If you choose to dismiss my arguments because I'm rude, then that's your perogative. However, you're dismissing them based on your perceptions of how they were presented, and not on their actual merit..

I never dismissed your arguments I disagreed with the way they were presented. Unfortunately I am allowed to do that. Furthermore, the merit of your arguements can be undermined by the way they were presented. Again, the more understanding someone is the more they are understood.



Originally posted by TKRIS
I prefer to present my arguments however I see fit, and let them either stand or fall based on their merit, not your delicate sensibilities..

That is completely your freedom I was just pointing out that it may be harder to come across as rational with condecending overtones. Trust me, my "delicate sensibilities" can take whatever you wish to throw at me.



Originally posted by TKRIS
It only makes me less credible because you've shown that you're more likely to judge arguments with your gut, as oppose to your brain..

I never judged your arguments. I had an opinion about the way they were presented... don't be so sensitive. If you can't handle some critiscm of your arguments then maybe you shouldn't have posted.

:)

[TKRIS]

Originally posted by doanashk


It wasn't a personal attack, I apologize if it came across that way.


Originally posted by doanashk
Who also seem to love arguing over nothing and spit uncalled-for patronizing comments onto others all for the sake of intellectual domination, but fail due to extreme arrogance? Someone is compensating for something me thinks!


Originally posted by doanashk

I am sure the points you have are valid. All I was trying to point out was that in order to be heard you must listen first.

I agree. You can't debate someone else's point without first reading them. Please feel free to point out where I failed to address someone else's point, because I can't seem to find it.




Originally posted by doanashk

Not once was I trying to tell you that. In fact I'm happy that you read my points it means you are willing to discuss. I was just mentioning that it seemed as though the fight to be right was undermining the actual conversation.

What fight to be right?
It was a point/counterpoint argument.
Hell, I didn't even really take a firm stand on anything.
You should see how much of a prick I can be when I argue about something I really, really care about. ;)




Originally posted by doanashk

I never dismissed your arguments I disagreed with the way they were presented. Unfortunately I am allowed to do that. Furthermore, the merit of your arguements can be undermined by the way they were presented. Again, the more understanding someone is the more they are understood.

You didn't say anything about the topic at hand. You just stopped in to tall me I was some sort of egotistical, arrogant maniac.
It's really not unfortunate that you're able to dismiss based on presentation rather than merit. I'm neutral on the subject.
No, the unfortunate thing isn't that you can dismiss things based on presentation rather than merit, the unfortunate thing is that you seem to do so.
It's a nuance, I know, but I feel an important one.
If someone died because they jumped off a bridge: The unfortunate thing wouldn't be that they were allowed to jump off the bridge, it's that they did.


Originally posted by doanashk

That is completely your freedom I was just pointing out that it may be harder to come across as rational with condecending overtones. Trust me, my &quot;delicate sensibilities&quot; can take whatever you wish to throw at me.

I agree. However, that's how I am. Take it or leave it, I don't sugar coat things. If you choose to dismiss merit based on presentation, expect me to point out how irrational it is to dismiss merit based on presentation.

One has nothing to do with the other, except when people choose to draw their own connection between the two. If someone chooses to make that illogical conclusion, that's their problem, not mine.


Originally posted by doanashk

I never judged your arguments. I had an opinion about the way they were presented... don't be so sensitive. If you can't handle some critiscm of your arguments then maybe you shouldn't have posted.

:)

Oh I'm not sensitive.
You had an opinion, and you presented it. Your opinion was (as far as I can tell) that my caustic presentation discredits my arguments.
I had an opinion as well: Arguments stand or fall based on merit, not presentation, and that to judge them otherwise is to allow emotion to over run reason.

Kris

[Mauser]

I did want to point out that it’s unlikely any Scientologist would come across this thread, because Scientology has a filtering program members are expected to use when using the Internet.

Unwanted pages and entire domains are blacklisted by the program. Scientologists can’t even access online newspapers which have run articles critical of Scientology.

I think Scientology believes it’s People's Republic of China.

[TKRIS]

Originally posted by Mauser

I think Scientology believes it’s People's Republic of China.

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: