Winter driving?

[essential.mix]

This 2006/2007 winter will be the first winter i am actually driving a lot. I am curious if any of you experienced winter drivers have some tips so i dont end up like most shit head morons in this city. I drive a standard and its a no brainer down shifting might be the best idea in these wintery conditions. Is there any other tips or tricks to making it through this shit accident free?

P.S i am aware this is a "newbie" question, but everyone has to start somewhere, so please, no hating.

Thanks, Paul

[natejj]

Got winter tires?

[gp36912]

youve got a fwd drive car so you don't have to worry about the tail kicking out, if your starting from a stop and notice that you aren't getting any grip at all, start in a higher gear. winter tires is almost a must too for the snowy times.

[adam c]

this is what the 10th thread about winter driving?

[88CRXGUY]

-Go into a parking lot(empty) and take your car around do some e-brakes and used to the handling of your vehicle.
-Make sure that you have extra antifreeze, windsheld washer fluid, jumper cables, just in case. Also some kitty litter or sand just in case you get stuck and you can't get out.
-When your car goes into a skid turn into the skid, not out. If you turn out of the skid your car could start fish tailing and you could be in less control. You have fwd so turn the wheel to where you want to go and you should be alright.
-Keep more of a distance between you and the car infront of you, summer is 2 seconds, make it at least 3 in the winter.
-It doesn't matter if its summer or winter outside certain people still don't use their signal lights or shoulder checks, be carefull for that.
-Even though its winter some people drive like its summer. Don't drive like that, like its summer.
-Always take your time to get where you are going, there is no reason to rush.
-You could also take a defensive driving course in the winter aswll to prepare you some more.
-Traffic lights intersections, spots where you have to yeild, stop signs. Those spots are highly slippery so break way before you hit them, its a scary thing blowing through a yeild or stop sign when its icy and there is a car coming. Beware of the round-abouts.
-When it comes to merging off and on a highway there can be lots of snow. The snow plows have a tendancy to push the snow on the off and on ramps, so try to snow down before you get into them.
-Leave enough space for the car infront of you because if he slides back into you and you were too close, your in shit.
-Make sure that you clean your car off totally before you drive, nothing is more a pain in the ass then people that still have a shit load of snow on their car and they are doing 120 down deerfoot with it blowing off to other cars.

I hope this helps....

[lilmira]

You can have your tail kick out even if you are driving a FWD. If that happens, absolutely no brakes. Don't do anything but hold on to the steering wheel. IF YOU KNOW WHAT YOU ARE DOING, counter steer and may be a bit of gas can straighten it out.

Sometimes the tail will kick out under braking too. Just don't hold on to the brakes even if you have ABS. Pump the brakes momentarily and gently. That's why should leave a lot of room in front of you for stopping.

[SilverBoost]

Originally posted by 88CRXGUY
-Go into a parking lot(empty) and take your car around do some e-brakes and used to the handling of your vehicle.


I do this pretty much every year just to get the feel back. It's great because you get to see how your vehicle handles in some different situations without having to worry about hitting anybody else. Obviously you still have ot use common sense.... you can wreck your shit just as easy in an empty parking lot too or hit a hidden bump or rut under the snow and turn over if you're not careful. But yes, it helps dramatically in getting a good feel for your vehicle. Much the same way as bringing your car to an Auto-X event in teh summer helps you find your limits on a summer set-up.

[88CRXGUY]

Originally posted by SilverBoost


I do this pretty much every year just to get the feel back. It's great because you get to see how your vehicle handles in some different situations without having to worry about hitting anybody else. Obviously you still have ot use common sense.... you can wreck your shit just as easy in an empty parking lot too or hit a hidden bump or rut under the snow and turn over if you're not careful. But yes, it helps dramatically in getting a good feel for your vehicle. Much the same way as bringing your car to an Auto-X event in teh summer helps you find your limits on a summer set-up.

Yes common sence is the key. You don't want to be practicing in the parking lot and not using common sence and hitting the only light standard in the whole parking lot because you didn't have common sence.

[SilverBoost]

Originally posted by lilmira
You can have your tail kick out even if you are driving a FWD. If that happens, absolutely no brakes. Don't do anything but hold on to the steering wheel. IF YOU KNOW WHAT YOU ARE DOING, counter steer and may be a bit of gas can straighten it out.

Sometimes the tail will kick out under braking too. Just don't hold on to the brakes even if you have ABS. Pump the brakes momentarily and gently. That's why should leave a lot of room in front of you for stopping.

Yeah, I had my tail kick out on a FWD years ago when I was young and inexperienced. Wasn't doing anything stupid, but I had the wrong equipment on the car. Really good tires up front, and some not so great tires in the back. They weren't bald, just not as much tread as I had up front. Hit some water going around a turn. Front stuck fine, rear hydroplaned, and I ended up upside down. Lesson learned. Even when you're a poor student you can spare a few nights of partying to buy the right tires. :D

[SilverBoost]

Originally posted by 88CRXGUY


Yes common sence is the key. You don't want to be practicing in the parking lot and not using common sence and hitting the only light standard in the whole parking lot because you didn't have common sence.

haha, I've seen it happen. :D

[88CRXGUY]

Originally posted by lilmira
You can have your tail kick out even if you are driving a FWD. If that happens, absolutely no brakes. Don't do anything but hold on to the steering wheel. IF YOU KNOW WHAT YOU ARE DOING, counter steer and may be a bit of gas can straighten it out.

Sometimes the tail will kick out under braking too. Just don't hold on to the brakes even if you have ABS. Pump the brakes momentarily and gently. That's why should leave a lot of room in front of you for stopping.

When you are going into a skid your not suppose to be hitting your brakes in the first place. You hit your brakes and lock them up, then what are you going to do, huh? Brakes on ice aren't going to do shit excpet to make you lose more control than what you already have.

If you also read the top of the thread he is a noob, so more than likely he ISN'T GOING TO KNOW WHAT HE/SHE IS DOING.

[88CRXGUY]

Originally posted by SilverBoost


haha, I've seen it happen. :D

lol oh shit, really. I was only thinking in extreme cases, but I guess its more common then I thought it was.

[rc2002]

Originally posted by essential.mix
I drive a standard and its a no brainer down shifting might be the best idea in these wintery conditions. Is there any other tips or tricks to making it through this shit accident free?


Downshifting isn't necessarily a good thing. The change in momentum when you downshift could be enough to cause your car to lose traction.

If you'll be doing a lot of winter driving, I would strongly recommend getting a set of winter tires.

[88CRXGUY]

Originally posted by richardchan2002


Downshifting isn't necessarily a good thing. The change in momentum when you downshift could be enough to cause your car to lose traction.

If you'll be doing a lot of winter driving, I would strongly recommend getting a set of winter tires.

Oh really, I didn't know that. Or do you mean at higher speed of downshifting rather than at a lower speed downshifting?

[lilmira]

Originally posted by 88CRXGUY


When you are going into a skid your not suppose to be hitting your brakes in the first place. You hit your brakes and lock them up, then what are you going to do, huh? Brakes on ice aren't going to do shit excpet to make you lose more control than what you already have.

If you also read the top of the thread he is a noob, so more than likely he ISN'T GOING TO KNOW WHAT HE/SHE IS DOING.

It is almost irresistible to hit the brakes as an inexperience driver the moment you feel you are gonna loose control of the car. Sometimes you can have more traction on your front wheels than the back. By keeping your foot on the brakes, you might be able to slow down but with your car facing the wrong way at the end.

I just want to point out that there is a way to straighten out the car but unless you know what you are doing, it might be better to just hold tight because you can potentially make the situation even worse.

If you hit ice and feel like the car is totally out of control, there is nothing you can do. Just ride it out and hopefully you have enough room to recover.

[gp36912]

Originally posted by lilmira
You can have your tail kick out even if you are driving a FWD. If that happens, absolutely no brakes. Don't do anything but hold on to the steering wheel. IF YOU KNOW WHAT YOU ARE DOING, counter steer and may be a bit of gas can straighten it out.

Sometimes the tail will kick out under braking too. Just don't hold on to the brakes even if you have ABS. Pump the brakes momentarily and gently. That's why should leave a lot of room in front of you for stopping.


:D well then i guess thats something new for me to try :D lol ive never had my corolla break loose on me, its always just been understeer.

[wheelz]

1)The most obvious tip is slow the fu$k down. People seem to forget that one. Leave sooner give yourself more time and then you wont be in a hury.
2)Pay attention when you are driving, not only to what you are doing but whats happening around you. That why the car has mirrors check them every 8 seconds.
3)Pull your head out of your arse

For those that are wondering these tips also work for seasons other than winter.

[duke]

The best tip I can give is to get winter tires, studded tires will stop you in half the time as winter tires alone.

DO NOT make any sudden movements. This is the trick to driving in the winter. In the summer you can brake hard, change lanes fast, jerk the wheel, and stomp on the gas without many problems, but refrain from these practices in the winter, slow all of your movements down, and a nervous driver is the worst one on the road so relax its just snow.

[VF-1A]

Originally posted by essential.mix
This 2006/2007 winter will be the first winter i am actually driving a lot. I am curious if any of you experienced winter drivers have some tips so i dont end up like most shit head morons in this city. I drive a standard and its a no brainer down shifting might be the best idea in these wintery conditions. Is there any other tips or tricks to making it through this shit accident free?

P.S i am aware this is a "newbie" question, but everyone has to start somewhere, so please, no hating.

Thanks, Paul

My first bit of 2 cents would be; downshift bad. In a standard when you downshift on dry pave, engine revs higher to try to keep up to the speed the tranny's goin at cuz the tires actually have grip(caused by friction). On ice, no friction. You down shift to quickly, as you most likely do in summer, theres a great big chance the tires will break free and we all know what happens next. Front end drifts to one side or the other, depending on too many variables to list. ie; road crown, which wheel is being the drive wheel at the time, direction, speed etc...

Next bit would be; when in a stoping situation on snow, ice, even rain, nuetral is your best friend. The engine and tranny are disengaged keeping the tires from spinning. They will only turn as fast as the vehicle is going.

3rd; listen to 88CRXGUY. All his stuff is good.

The parking lot senario is an awesome idea too. Purposely putting yourself in an "uncontolled" situation is great practice. Not only is it fun (speaking only for myself, of course) it will help you learn to keep your head and not panic. That's why most of these "shit head morons" get into, or cause, accidents. They lose it and more accurately, don't know what they're doing in the first place. Try a "panic" downshift while going in different directions while in a p/lot and you'll see what i was talking about.



Originally posted by lilmira
You can have your tail kick out even if you are driving a FWD. If that happens, absolutely no brakes. Don't do anything but hold on to the steering wheel. IF YOU KNOW WHAT YOU ARE DOING, counter steer and may be a bit of gas can straighten it out.

Sometimes the tail will kick out under braking too. Just don't hold on to the brakes even if you have ABS. Pump the brakes momentarily and gently. That's why should leave a lot of room in front of you for stopping.

Pump your ABS...........If your car has ABS, read your owners manual as to why you ABSOLUTELY DO NOT PUMP YOUR ABS!! No
ABS? Then yes, pump away. Anti Lock Brakes is what ABS stands for, (for those who don't know), meaning that the ABS computer simulates the pumping action (ya know, that "kick back" feeling you get in the brake pedal) us non-abs drivers need to do. If you pump the brakes it will mess with the computer and not work properly. Eventually, not at all.

[Mitsu3000gt]

Downshifting works only if you match the revs, if you just throw it into a lower gear your tires can still skid.

[Lo)2enz0]

Originally posted by Mitsu3000gt
Downshifting works only if you match the revs, if you just throw it into a lower gear your tires can still skid.

so true. this winter is actually not that bad. i thought my tires would be a nightmare and they really aren't that bad

[lilmira]

Originally posted by VF-1A




Pump your ABS...........If your car has ABS, read your owners manual as to why you ABSOLUTELY DO NOT PUMP YOUR ABS!! No
ABS? Then yes, pump away. Anti Lock Brakes is what ABS stands for, (for those who don't know), meaning that the ABS computer simulates the pumping action (ya know, that "kick back" feeling you get in the brake pedal) us non-abs drivers need to do. If you pump the brakes it will mess with the computer and not work properly. Eventually, not at all.

ABS prevents your wheels from locking up but it doesn't guarantee stability. All I'm trying to say is to use your brake carefully, heavy braking can really throw your stability out, ABS or not, even in not very high speed. I'm talking about the rear end of the car kicking out, not the pedal vibrating. If you lose traction on your back due to heavy braking, your back end can slide out even when you are going straight due to the crown of the road. Once the back end starts kicking out, braking will only throw the car off even more. I've seen so many people spining while stopping for red light. I don't remember even once ABS helps me in anyway.
Don't trust your ABS too much. There is reason why race car doesn't have ABS.

Slowing down by down shifting doesn't really work in slippery condition. Think about it, the weakest link is between the tire and the surface. You don't have problem stopping the wheels from spinning which your brakes are more than capable of doing, you have problem gripping the surface. The only time slowing down by downshifting is effective is when your brakes are overloaded and you need something else to slow down the wheels. For example, when you are going down hill for a long distance, you want to use your engine to share the load so that you don't overheat your brakes. You probably don't have to worry about that in winter.

[DoubleLP]

ABS gives you the ability to STEER your car in a panic situation. If you are on ice that might not be possible but it does give that ability.

Pumping your brakes with ABS is the wrong thing to do and a lot of people still do it and end up getting in an accident anyways. If you have ABS and the ABS engages.....push down on the pedal and keep doing that. You might be able to steer out of the situation.

If you can't trust ABS, why do the manufacturers put it on the cars? For show?

The biggest problem with ABS is the person behind the wheel who does not know how to use it properly.

Head into an empty parking lot, go in a straight line and hit your brakes and let the ABS engage. You should be able to steer. Then try the same thing but pumping your brakes and the ABS going on and off. You might be able to steer a bit, but I doubt it. ABS works if you know what you are doing.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-lock_braking_system

Downshifting in winter works perfectly fine if you match your RPM's and come off the clutch SLOWLY. I do it all the time and I have never lost traction.

As for tips with winter driving:

1) Get snow tires.
2) Drive with caution.
3) Give yourself more distance from the car in front of you.
4) Check your mirrors more often so that if you have to make an emergency manuver you know if you can switch lanes or not.
5) Just use common sense. If it looks slippy, slow down.
6) Take your time. If it takes 15 more minutes to get there then who cares. You still get there alive.

[lilmira]

Ok, I should reword. Use your brake carefully, not pumping. Simply put, leave tons of room to slow down so you don't have to brake hard.

For your information, ABS doesn't make the car stop faster (a lot of people think they do) but I'll leave that out of the beginner's class.

[DoubleLP]

And I never said that. I said that you might be able to STEER away from the situation. I never said anything to the point of that it will stop you faster.

[GTS Jeff]

Originally posted by Mitsu3000gt
Downshifting works only if you match the revs, if you just throw it into a lower gear your tires can still skid. Downshifting is still far worse than simply braking.

2 reasons:

1. The engine will brake with a certain amount of force that you cannot control. When you use the brake pedal, you can modulate the amount of braking force the wheels see, but you cannot when engine braking. People just think downshifting is better because they are comparing it to slamming on the brakes, which you're not supposed to do anyway.

2. Engine braking will only apply braking force to your drive wheels, so unless you have an AWD car, the braking force is not distributed evenly, making it easier to upset the car's balance.

[xrayvsn]

Slow down, brake early, try not to make sudden steering corrections and buy winter tires.

If you have a standard and lose control, put in the clutch and remove the power from the drive wheels.

Also, look up and look where you want the car to go, not at what you think you're going to hit.

[Mitsu3000gt]

Originally posted by GTS Jeff
Downshifting is still far worse than simply braking.

2 reasons:

1. The engine will brake with a certain amount of force that you cannot control. When you use the brake pedal, you can modulate the amount of braking force the wheels see, but you cannot when engine braking. People just think downshifting is better because they are comparing it to slamming on the brakes, which you're not supposed to do anyway.

2. Engine braking will only apply braking force to your drive wheels, so unless you have an AWD car, the braking force is not distributed evenly, making it easier to upset the car's balance.

I agree, am just saying how to do it so it doesn't skid the tires. Those are good points.

[silver_gs-R]

a set of nice winter tires, and downshifting would be the best two things you could do, and the most important just take it nice and slow, keep your distance always. :thumbsup:

[lilmira]

Originally posted by DoubleLP
And I never said that. I said that you might be able to STEER away from the situation. I never said anything to the point of that it will stop you faster.

No, it wasn't for you and that's why I didn't quote. You are correct and that is the whole purpose of ABS, nothing more.

One more thing that no one has mentioned yet. Pay attention to your surrounding all the time and this applies to driving all year long. You can avoid getting into accidents by knowing what the others are doing. It's not just about you not hitting the others, the others can hit you too.

[VF-1A]

Originally posted by Mitsu3000gt
Downshifting works only if you match the revs, if you just throw it into a lower gear your tires can still skid.

Short, to the point. Nice one. For a more detailed (or more accuratly, long winded) explaination, see my first response on down shifting


Originally posted by DoubleLP
And I never said that. I said that you might be able to STEER away from the situation. I never said anything to the point of that it will stop you faster.

Nice one on the link. Thanks for the inadvertant back up.


Originally posted by lilmira

One more thing that no one has mentioned yet. Pay attention to your surrounding all the time and this applies to driving all year long. You can avoid getting into accidents by knowing what the others are doing. It's not just about you not hitting the others, the others can hit you too.

Damn straight! Your mirrors are your car "watching your back". I have avoided many an accident from "shit head morons" who don't aren't aware of THEIR surroundings. Thankfully, i was aware of theirs.

You make a good point about still being able to have your ass end kick out even with abs though. Unless it comes with 4 wheel which is pretty much the only way they come now.
And, i fully agree with your view on abs. Not that i don't trust it, i just don't like the car being in control. If I can't control my rate, amount, and pumping i don't want the car. Besides, abs components add weight.

Race cars with no abs? Turn off NASCAR and check out some F1. Now that's racing. Oval Smoval.

[lilmira]

My back end kicked out on me a few times under braking even though I have 4-wheel ABS for whatever reason. Had I not let go of my brakes, I probably would have sideswiped someone else's car or ended up in a ditch. Then all I did was to re-apply the brake gently to the point that I could slow the car down and keep the rear end behind me and nowhere else.

I just wanted to point this out since someone mentioned about rear end of FWD kicking out and this has happened to me.

I don't think this has anything to do with ABS. It's more about transferring too much weight to the front and therefore losing traction in the back. Correct me if I should have stayed on my brakes.

I didn't know F1 cars have ABS, I always see them locking up their wheels when they brake too hard and too late.

[VF-1A]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by lilmira
[B]My back end kicked out on me a few times under braking even though I have 4-wheel ABS for whatever reason. Had I not let go of my brakes, I probably would have sideswiped someone else's car or ended up in a ditch. Then all I did was to re-apply the brake gently to the point that I could slow the car down and keep the rear end behind me and nowhere else.

I just wanted to point this out since someone mentioned about rear end of FWD kicking out and this has happened to me.

I don't think this has anything to do with ABS. It's more about transferring too much weight to the front and therefore losing traction in the back. Correct me if I should have stayed on my brakes.

Yes and no to the weight transfer. If your front tires had more traction for whatever reason then no. Engine in the front of your car and the trunk/hatch empty then, possible, yes.