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Mitsu3000gt
11-23-2006, 12:20 PM
Does anyone know much about this camera? I was all ready to pull the trigger on the Nikon D80 with either the 18-135 or the 18-200vr (if I could find one) and then I started reading the pentax forum on dpreview, where someone asked which is better between the D80 and K10D. Granted it was on the Pentax forum, almost everyone said the Pantax was better. Apparently Pentax does not have the lens selection of nikon, but others suggested the Pentax has a better AF system in addition to dust removal and image stabilization in the camera. Also, the Pentax is dust/weather sealed and magnesium.

I am by no means a professional, and I would never take my camera out in the rain no matter what it was. Image stabilization is nice because I will be taking some pictures from a boat but I can get IS in the lens.....is lens IS or camera IS better? I only pla n to buy 2 or 3 lenses total - an all purpose like the 18-200, a macro and perhaps a smaller range like 18-70 but high quality.

Has anyone here had the same dillema? Opinions on the two would be greatly appreciated as well. I can't find any reviews that compare image quality between the Nikon and Pentax. Unfortunately the Pentax isn't in Calgary yet so I can't go hold them, but everyone seems to think the Pentax is a very solid, comfortable camera and it is heavier than the D80.

Pihsiak
11-23-2006, 12:38 PM
Nikon and Canon have Optical Image Stabilizers. This means that if your hand shakes, the lens will shift the glass elements back in place.

Minolta (aka Sony) and Pentex have gone with Sensor Image Stabilizer. Same story except when your hands shake, the senor in the body is moved back in place.

In theory, this is a better method because with OIS, the feature is only avalible if the lens has it making that particualr lens more expensive. Where as with SIS, any lens to attached to the body would have IS capability.

In actuallity, SIS sucks.

Mitsu3000gt
11-23-2006, 01:56 PM
Thanks, I did not know that. I've been leaning toward Nikon because of the lenses anyhow, but the Pentax body seems to have it all. I will more than likely end up with the Nikon but any more opinions are appreciated.

BerserkerCatSplat
11-24-2006, 02:51 PM
Also, current dust removal technology is just marketing talk - it does not actually get rid of dust. It shakes off some of the dust, but the dust stays floating around inside the camera body - ready to be sucked back onto the sensor the next time it energizes.

As Phisiak notes, lens stabilization is better than sensor stabilization, but I wouldn't say SIS is completely useless. It does its job, but you won't see as much benefit as with in-lens stabilization. Check out, say, a Nikon 70-200 F2.8 VR or a Canon 70-200 F2.8L IS and be amazed at how low of shutter speeds you can handhold those lenses.

TurboMedic
11-24-2006, 02:54 PM
Dust in inevitable anyhow, if you're not comfotable with cleaning dust don't buy a DSLR! Nikons marketing does not say it, but they have an antistatic dust film on the filter, so dust is less likely to make it to the sensor (Nikon's marketing sucks). Pentax's body is certainly good, weather sealed and all, and for that price the K10D is a good camera for the features included. My advice as usual, go and actually shoot with one, see what you like, not what everyone else likes. I like my D80 personally

Mitsu3000gt
11-24-2006, 03:38 PM
The only problem is I can't go hold a K10D anytime soon ,and they don't have the lens support of Nikon. I'm pretty much sold on the D80....just trying to make up my mind with lenses.

Apparently there is sticky tape under the dust sensor on the K10D to catch the particles, but it's good to know that in camera IS is not as good as lens IS. I'm pretty much for sure going with the D80. I just need to free up a bit of cash first (I owe my dad alot of money and he doesn't like it when I make purchases without paying him back first :D )

I did have a couple more questions though.....is there one place everyone kind of goes to buy their DSLRs in calgary? London drugs has some of the highest prices but their return policy rocks. I'm guessing the specialty stores give you store credit at best if you need to return.

Secondly, is there a good camera bag that everyone uses? (im looking for a soft case) Or do you just go out and buy what works? I'd like something where I can store the lens on the camera in the bag, because I will only have one lens and no reason to remove it.

Thanks.

BerserkerCatSplat
11-24-2006, 04:04 PM
I get most of my (new) equipment from The Camera Store. Better prices, and the staff is very knowledgeable. They also are very good about trying stuff out! They also have free workshops every Saturday morning, though I just found that out yesterday ad have yet to attend one. I'm not entirely familiar with their return policy TBH - but that being said, pro shooters have a habit of buying lenses, trying them out and then taking them back if they don't like them.

As far as cases go, just find one you like. Buy one large enough to expand your lens/flash collection a bit, just like you used to buy shoes you could grow into. I have a small hardcase for travel, a camera/lens-only bag for wandering about, and huge-ass bag for when I need everything. I've lately realized I'm missing a midsize bag, so I've been looking at the Lowepro Slingshot 200. You might want to check that one out.

Mitsu3000gt
11-24-2006, 04:55 PM
Thanks alot, you guys are an awesome source of info here. It's helping me out alot.

Mitsu3000gt
11-24-2006, 11:28 PM
I liked the REZO 170/180 bags from Lowepro. The sling bag is super nice but overkill if I just have one lens.

muse017
11-25-2006, 01:38 AM
Originally posted by Pihsiak
Nikon and Canon have Optical Image Stabilizers. This means that if your hand shakes, the lens will shift the glass elements back in place.

Minolta (aka Sony) and Pentex have gone with Sensor Image Stabilizer. Same story except when your hands shake, the senor in the body is moved back in place.

In theory, this is a better method because with OIS, the feature is only avalible if the lens has it making that particualr lens more expensive. Where as with SIS, any lens to attached to the body would have IS capability.

In actuallity, SIS sucks.

You gotta be kidding me...huh?
Have u ever actally used Minolta 5D or Pentax K100?
If not, don't even bother to write this kind of crap i tell you.
Don't even tell me that you have used Canon 2SIS
so you know how bad or good SIS works.:guns: :guns:
I totally agreed with an idea where OIS works better than SIS however the SIS that used in K10D can cover up to 4.5 stops which is very impressive for the money you pay for.

Please go to Dpreview and do some search for SR sample shots.

muse017
11-25-2006, 01:50 AM
problem with pentax right now is very limited lens production.
Most of their "Good lenses" have been discontinued expect for just a few. Their DA glasses are great but missing telephoto.

List of lenses that are currently in production

DA 10-17 fish eye
DA 12-24 F4
DA 14 F42.8
DA 16-45 F4
DA 18-55 3.5-5.6
DA 40 2.8 limited
DA 50-200
DFA 50 2.8 Macro
DFA 100 2.8 Macro

FA 31mm 1.8 limited
FA 43mm 1.9 limited
FA 77mm 1.8 limited

FA 50mm 1.4
FA 50mm 1.7

List of lenses that are discontinued

FA *24mm 2.8
FA *85mm 1.4
FA *28-80mm 2.8
FA *80-200mm 2.8
FA *300mm 4
FA *300mm 2.8
FA 35mm 2


2007 Lense Road map for pentax
http://www.digital.pentax.co.jp/en/lens/roadmap.pdf

Basically, by 2007, pentax will have pretty much all telephoto area covered.

muse017
11-25-2006, 02:07 AM
Here are some links to sample shots and discussions.

Impresive sample shot with K100d + 300mm telephoto
http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1036&message=20614879


Questions from Canon user
http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1036&message=20881369

Pihsiak
11-25-2006, 03:37 AM
Originally posted by muse017



Don't even tell me that you have used Canon 2SIS


Each camera I've used for at least 2 - 5+ hrs
Canon SD700 IS, A710 IS, S1 S2 S3 IS, G7
Nikon L5 with VR, S10 with VR, P3 with VR,

Lens I've used
Canon 17-85 USM IS, 28-135 USM IS, 75-300 USM IS, 70-300 USM IS,
Nikon 70-200mm f2.8G ED VR

I'm a real IS fan...


And there's a reason why I haven't had to tested Pentex and Sony.

BerserkerCatSplat
11-25-2006, 04:04 AM
Originally posted by muse017


FA 31mm 1.8 limited
FA 43mm 1.9 limited
FA 77mm 1.8 limited


Those lenses are the only reason I would ever even consider buying a Pentax.

muse017
11-25-2006, 04:20 PM
Originally posted by Pihsiak


Each camera I've used for at least 2 - 5+ hrs
Canon SD700 IS, A710 IS, S1 S2 S3 IS, G7
Nikon L5 with VR, S10 with VR, P3 with VR,

Lens I've used
Canon 17-85 USM IS, 28-135 USM IS, 75-300 USM IS, 70-300 USM IS,
Nikon 70-200mm f2.8G ED VR

I'm a real IS fan...


And there's a reason why I haven't had to tested Pentex and Sony.


Do you even think it's fair to compare P&S camera with SIS with DSLR camera with IS. Come on...

Pihsiak
11-26-2006, 02:12 AM
Originally posted by muse017



Do you even think it's fair to compare P&S camera with SIS ...


what like Minolta's Z series, A200, A2 and A1?

Or you mean P&S with IS?
I'm just saying I've been play alot with Canon's IS technology.

Ferio_vti
11-30-2006, 03:39 PM
Originally posted by muse017
problem with pentax right now is very limited lens production.
Most of their "Good lenses" have been discontinued expect for just a few. Their DA glasses are great but missing telephoto.

List of lenses that are currently in production

DA 10-17 fish eye
DA 12-24 F4
DA 14 F42.8
DA 16-45 F4
DA 18-55 3.5-5.6
DA 40 2.8 limited
DA 50-200
DFA 50 2.8 Macro
DFA 100 2.8 Macro

FA 31mm 1.8 limited
FA 43mm 1.9 limited
FA 77mm 1.8 limited

FA 50mm 1.4
FA 50mm 1.7

List of lenses that are discontinued

FA *24mm 2.8
FA *85mm 1.4
FA *28-80mm 2.8
FA *80-200mm 2.8
FA *300mm 4
FA *300mm 2.8
FA 35mm 2


2007 Lense Road map for pentax
http://www.digital.pentax.co.jp/en/lens/roadmap.pdf

Basically, by 2007, pentax will have pretty much all telephoto area covered.


I've got a DA 40mm, amazing piece of glass. Not as fast (or as expensive) as a 43mm limited, but still a amazing to use. Pentax seems to shiny brightest with their prime lenses. And their fish eye with zoom are worth a look. Plus the new * lenses coming is worth waiting for.

But to get the most out of Pentax, 645 is hard to beat. Their digital will be something to look out for.

ex1z7
12-05-2006, 10:16 AM
Being a brutal amatuer as I am .. My input here might not mean anything, but I thought I'd throw a few words of my own out.

I was in a toss up between a Pentax K and a Nikon D, a few varients of each, for the past few months..

The reason I was considering Pentax and Nikon over Canon/Fuji/Sony/Minolta .. Is because ..

Canon: Felt too small in my hands, felt like I'd fumble it.. Also felt too light.

Fuji: I considered Fuji as I own a P&S A*, being my first camera, I felt obliged to check Fuji out.. They don't have the support of Nikon/Canon/Pentax, and were horrendously priced for what you get.

Sony: I've always harboured resentment for Sony, but the ergonomics of the camera itself was what sealed the deal for me on never buying one. Having to cock my finger back to an uncomfortable position to take a snap seemed wrong..

Minolta: Being more difficult, and more expensive to find nowadays.. It was just never an option for me realistically.. I wanted something newer and not discontinued. Sony gave Minolta fans a place to go, but I don't want to go the Sony route.

Nikon: Lens support, ergonomics, they're pretty :angel: , the best fitting-in-my-hand camera I've held yet.. The reviews I've read, the pictures I've seen and taken, everything about the Nikon camera fits the way I take photo's.. That and Berserker uses a Nikon :clap:

Pentax: With the K mount theres literally 30 years of lenses you can use, if you're starting out and on a budget, it's a great way to go.. That was the only reason I considered Pentax.. However Nikon pulled my attention too much and everything else seemed like it would leave me unsatisfied if I purchased anything less then the camera I wanted.

When I was in the market, everyone told me to go and shoot with the camera's first, then decide further.. That's the best advice yet. Go and test out a few camera's after narrowing your choices - and you'll have a better idea of what you want.

With the purchase of a Nikon D80 .. You wont be let down. Great camera's =). Good luck in your search !