LS1 - Best engine in the universe?

[tentacles]

Eveyone wants to put LS1s into their cars. RX-7, M3, everything. Any car in the world is automatically better/faster with a LS1 swap. Does this engine have any general weaknesses at all? Is there some reason why every car on the street should not have an LS1 swap?

[ogpog]

They are a common motor that is easy to work on with tons of aftermarket, cheap power, and its commonality allows cheaper part prices. Best engine in the universe isn't how I'd look at it though. Cruise ships, Locomotives, Semi Trucks, etc, there are some phenominal motors out there.

[Slashin_]

he each his own......i d take a 4 banger anyday

[LilDrunkenSmurf]

I think the major downside to the LS1, is the gas mileage... you could reasonably get the same power out of a turbo 4 banger, than a stock LS1... you'd never have the same reliability or the same possibilities for power... but better gas mileage... haha

They are great swaps, but not feasible in all cars... it CAN be done in any car, it's just a matter of money.

Although a smart car w/ an LS1 would probably just the the ls1 sitting on 4 wheels with a saddle on top haha

[tentacles]

Heh, but you can save gas by driving like a granny. Isn't that's why the C06 Corvette (6.2l LS2) get's the same EPA gas mileage as an Acura TL (3.2l V6)? :)

So obviously, the first thing you should do with a TL is to swap the motor for a nice LS series Detroit V8....... :rofl:

[msommers]

You guys are talking good performance and good gas mileage? Sorry guys it's either or, not both

[Supa Dexta]

I'm not sure about a lot of engines nowadays.. We should be leaps and bounds ahead of the past, But I dont think we are.. The technology is far superior, tolerances should be better, computer assisted design should help with engine lay outs, sizes, designs, angles..etc.. everything should be far improved...

They can squease 200hp out of a liter bike NA pretty reliably, which makes me think the tech is pushing them along nicely, but cars should be getting 80mpg by now you think, and live for 500k...

i dunno, just thoughts..

:dunno:

[SilverBoost]

Originally posted by msommers
You guys are talking good performance and good gas mileage? Sorry guys it's either or, not both

Yeah I get great gas mileage and mediocre performance when I'm not in it with a full foot, and I get poor mileage and great performance when I'm kicking a heel through the firewall. Same car, and I get both, just never at the same time. :D

[LilDrunkenSmurf]

Originally posted by Supa Dexta
I'm not sure about a lot of engines nowadays.. We should be leaps and bounds ahead of the past, But I dont think we are.. The technology is far superior, tolerances should be better, computer assisted design should help with engine lay outs, sizes, designs, angles..etc.. everything should be far improved...

They can squease 200hp out of a liter bike NA pretty reliably, which makes me think the tech is pushing them along nicely, but cars should be getting 80mpg by now you think, and live for 500k...

i dunno, just thoughts..

:dunno:

True... but do you think auto makers would still be making money if they did it that way?

[lowryder99]

Originally posted by Slashin_
he each his own......i d take a 4 banger anyday

LMAO!!!!!:nut: :nut: :nut:

Yea because 4 bangers are always better than all aluminum v8's that can put out 400hp to the wheels with just a handfull of mods done to them....

I don't think you will ever get the power out of a turboed 4 banger without a lot more extensive mods...and besides, the great things about LS1's is they have just as much torque as they do hp...it is a great motor. And whoever said anything about gas miledge is nuts, I got 30mpg's on the highway in my 00 C5.

[LilDrunkenSmurf]

I'd personally take a 4 banger, just because... well I love 4 bangers... I don't need that kind of power, I just enough acceleration once i'm done that corner @ autocross

[Slashin_]

i dun see the point in modding sumthing i know is fast....its proving someone wrong with a slow car to begin with

[Mitsu3000gt]

LS1 is a pretty good motor, but I'd take just about any motor made by the europeans first (i.e. germans/italians). This is just my opinion, it's not based on any factual evidence :)

[googe]

of course it isnt the best engine in the universe. its not even the best chevy engine of its generation.

[Slashin_]

ur forgetin f1 engines.....mr 1000hp + 14,000 rev :drool:

[gp36912]

ferrari engines :D :drool: or the 7.3L amg engine in the zonda :drool: :drool: :drool: or the m3 and m5 engines. they are great engines too :D

[Audio_Rookie]

Originally posted by LilDrunkenSmurf
I think the major downside to the LS1, is the gas mileage...

really.....I know a guy that has a 5.3L in his s10 extreme, swapped from a 2.2 He gets the same mileage as he did before and he runs 12.0 on motor.

I know another guy who runs 11's on motor in his 4.6 mustang and gets 30mpg on the highway.

corvette with the ls7 gets 26mpg highway....and thats a 7L. And it still weighs 3200+lbs.

ls1 is common, and the bottom end is good to 600hp without modding....thats plenty for most, and they get good mileage if tuned right and not put in a 4000lb car.

[tentacles]

The power to weight ratios on GM's LS engines is crazy.

http://img148.imageshack.us/img148/331/chartvo5.jpg

Now I said LS1 because presumably they are quite cheap and easy to find, as already mentioned, but look at it's big brothers LS2 and LS7. What actually prompted me to start this thread was reasing about Tunerworks' LS1 powered M3. Those Euro engines have NOTHING on the LS, and they probably cost like 3 or 4x as much. :eek:

So really the best bang for the buck "mod" anyone can do to their cars (unless it's a Ferrari or Lambo) is the LS1 swap. :clap:

[BerserkerCatSplat]

Small block Chevys and Fords have always been incredible performance bargains. With GM adopting the aluminum block design, the LS series has become a phenomenal swap candidate.

[Ekliptix]

They take up too much space in the engine. I can't fit my short ram intake with them in the way.

[Mr. Burns]

I don't know about BEST engine... but my favorite engines are VW's 2.0L 16v, and the 24v VR6

[SNAATCH]

Originally posted by Slashin_
ur forgetin f1 engines.....mr 1000hp + 14,000 rev :drool:

Aren't F1 motors replaced every couple races?

[ogpog]

Originally posted by Mr. Burns
I don't know about BEST engine... but my favorite engines are VW's 2.0L 16v, and the 24v VR6

Could it be because you drive a Vw?

[gp36912]

Originally posted by tentacles
The power to weight ratios on GM's LS engines is crazy.

http://img148.imageshack.us/img148/331/chartvo5.jpg

Now I said LS1 because presumably they are quite cheap and easy to find, as already mentioned, but look at it's big brothers LS2 and LS7. What actually prompted me to start this thread was reasing about Tunerworks' LS1 powered M3. Those Euro engines have NOTHING on the LS, and they probably cost like 3 or 4x as much. :eek:

So really the best bang for the buck "mod" anyone can do to their cars (unless it's a Ferrari or Lambo) is the LS1 swap. :clap:

but your looking at the ls7 not the ls1

[90_Shelby]

LS7, LS1, LS2, LQ9...... same shit different pile.

[tentacles]

Yah it was the most convenient chart I could find. LS1 weighs 497lbs (less than a KA24DE! No wonder all the 240sx drivers want them!).

[sneek]

Originally posted by 90_Shelby
LS7, LS1, LS2, LQ9...... same shit different pile.

Isn't the LS2 pretty similar as well?

[euro_racer]

Originally posted by Mr. Burns
I don't know about BEST engine... but my favorite engines are VW's 2.0L 16v, and the 24v VR6

even though i love those engines aswell and have owned cars with them, i would have to question this choice...the 16v is not very reliable and not really what it is made ot to be (but back in their time it was an amazing engine) the vr is not very reliable neither and somehow allways tends to leak ( i had 2 vr6 cars, a 12v and a 24v and both caused me issues)

i do however love vw and both of those enines and the music the make but i dont think they are the best engines :(


Originally posted by SNAATCH


Aren't F1 motors replaced every couple races?

an f1 engine is designed to last one race, if it lasts for more than one race then that is an indicator that something is wrong (discovery channel :D )


on a side note, wasnt the 3.5L found in the 350z and g35 named the engine of the year last year?

[gp36912]

see saying the ls1,2,3 etc is the same, is basically calling the bmw m52 and the s50 engines the same, or the other mcode engines and the m52 the same.

[Slashin_]

Originally posted by SNAATCH


Aren't F1 motors replaced every couple races?

pretty much....who cares there the best

[Ekliptix]

And practical as an engine to swap into a daily driver too!

[Cody D]

I would agree that the LSx engines are probably the best all around engines in production cars. But my personal favourite would have to be the Mitsubishi 4G63t, now that's a great all around engine.

[Ekliptix]

Please tell me that's not the stealth TT engine.

[xrayvsn]

^^^ 4G63T is the DSM and Mitsubishi Lancer Evolution motors.

[tentacles]

It's the I4 used in the Dodge Colt and Mitsubishi Galant and Starion and all the other legendary DSMs! :rofl:
http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y220/95EagleAWD/dsmcrankwalk3bd.jpg
Thanks 95eagleawd!

[Cody D]

Originally posted by tentacles
[B]It's the I4 used in the Dodge Colt and Mitsubishi Galant and Starion and all the other legendary DSMs! :rofl:

It wasn't in the Colt that came with the 4G15 and the 4G61t, and it didn't come in the Starion (I think).

It came in the DSM's (Laser, Talon, Eclipse) and 15 years worth of Evo's.

But the fastest AWD I4 in the world is running one, Shep rules.

[tentacles]

Yup it was the JDM Starion and Colt Vista/Mitsubishi Chariot minivan that had the 4G63.

[JAYMEZ]

2JZ FTW!! :burnout:

[Ekliptix]

Any in a SC chassis in Calgary?

[A3GTiVR6SC]

Originally posted by Cody D
But my personal favourite would have to be the Mitsubishi 4G63t, now that's a great all around engine.

:D


Originally posted by Cody D

But the fastest AWD I4 in the world is running one, Shep rules.

I like his plate... "7 Sec AWD" :poosie:
http://dsmvideo.vidiac.com/video/2e0de9e7-f5a1-4f3b-8d8c-987600cca8cd.htm

[A2VR6]

Originally posted by lowryder99


And whoever said anything about gas miledge is nuts, I got 30mpg's on the highway in my 00 C5.

Haha thats because the gearing for those things are so damn tall. But honestly, I would agree the LSx series of engines are some of the most flexible out there.

[iceburns288]

The LS engine series is absolutely fantastic. They sound great and have some of the most serious potential of any engine out there. Crazy damn reliable too, even over 600hp and beyond.

[tentacles]

So, it is resolved then. The LS series are the best engines in the universe. Go pushrods! When are the Japanese going to catch up? :D

[LilDrunkenSmurf]

I'd say there's some definite phenomenal engines... what about that one inline 10, that pushed like... what... 9million hp or something? for the huge tankers and stuff... I mean that's pretty damn cool... Maybe it's one of the leading automotive engines?

[Hoey]

2JZ-GTE?
1098 rwhp record on stock internals?

Whats LS1? ahahha
V8's always have built internals, and hi-comp pistons....Its not the same "bolt-on" world with tuners.

Yeah C6 Z06 has 505hp but how much more can you pump without tearing it apart? That motor is INSANELY built, and it is built for what it does....A lot would have to be changed to make it more powerfull...like the Lingenfelter :devil::drool:

The joke with 2j's is
"oh I have 450 whp"
--" So what type of boost controller do you have?"

V8's DO HAVE MORE POWER POTENTIAL THAN OTHERS!!! ITS ALL DISPLACEMENT!!!

BUT, out of the box is a different story, Not a lot of camaros can hit 600hp without pulling a motor....the is jap cars that can.

The only 1000hp v8 stock ive ever seen was Lingenfelter vette (and its not even production i dont think) But put it in to perspective ITS A FUCKING 7.0L TWIN TURBO! IT BETTER BE POWERFULL

Dont really know where Im going with this cuz I love v8's and 6cyls, 4cyls......so im just gonna stop:clap:

[tentacles]

Yes, but displacement != weight. Your iron block I6 Japanese motors are already heavy as fuck, and that's not including all the plumbing for turbos and intercoolers and shit. Those LS1 swapped FDs end up weighing almost the same as stock, and that's with a stronger transmission and more than 4x the displacement. 240SX with the LS1 swap actually weighs less than the stock 4-banger, same with the E36 M3. The 7l LS7 weighs even LESS than the LS1.

SO let's see: 505hp, NA, and weighs less than KA20DE.

How can the 2JZ and RB26, with all that heavy turbo stuff, even come close to the LS series?

[LilDrunkenSmurf]

Yes, but how much custom fabbing must you do to fit an LS1 in? I mean, sure it's a good engine, but how easy is it?

Not everyone wants to blow 15k on a car JUST because it's the best hp/$

It's not a feasible swap for most cars... how many civics, talons, RSX's or other comparable 4 bangers do you see with american blocks, let alone the LS1?

EDIT: Are you TRYING to stir up another domestic vs import thread? because that's where this seems to be heading.

[tentacles]

LS7 in FD: :nut:
http://album.hybridz.org/data/500/medium/DSCN0576.JPG


EDIT: Are you TRYING to stir up another domestic vs import thread? because that's where this seems to be heading.

*shrug*. It will be what you and everyone else makes it. I started the thread after reading some of the crazy LS conversions like the one above, so I'd just like to learn more about it.

[ZedMan]

Originally posted by LilDrunkenSmurf
Yes, but how much custom fabbing must you do to fit an LS1 in? I mean, sure it's a good engine, but how easy is it?

Not everyone wants to blow 15k on a car JUST because it's the best hp/$

It's not a feasible swap for most cars... how many civics, talons, RSX's or other comparable 4 bangers do you see with american blocks, let alone the LS1?

EDIT: Are you TRYING to stir up another domestic vs import thread? because that's where this seems to be heading.

If you're gonna go that way then there is no use even discussing which engine is better, because I can't think of any engine that can bolt into any car with no fab work.

[LilDrunkenSmurf]

But I mean the cost of fabbing to stuff an LS1 in almost any car, vs the more common swaps... What's the cost of an LS1 vs an RB26 into a skyline or an SR20 into a 240, or almost any b-series into an EG/EK. There are easier swaps, with less fabbing... And they come with some parts pre-made.

[tentacles]

What's the cost of an LS1 vs an RB26 into a skyline or an SR20 into a 240, or almost any b-series into an EG/EK. There are easier swaps, with less fabbing... And they come with some parts pre-made.

You.....could just buy a Skyline with an RB26 in it already. I don' think that's really a fair comparison. :rofl:

Anyways, yes it's easier to put a Civic engine into a Civic and a Skyline engine into a Skyline, but that doesn't mean the LS isn't the best engine in the universe now, does it? :)

[LilDrunkenSmurf]

No... but just because it's super powered doesn't make it the best ever either... It depends on what your goals are... if your looking for near insane power for reliability, this is a damn good candidate... If your looking for gas mileage... a smart car engine is a good candidate... I'm just trying to say, that although this may be at the top of your list, it's just not everyones cup of tea.

[tentacles]

Well, I guess since SMARTcars runs on DIESEL, it probably has the LS beat for MPG, but even then, if you're willing to only use 2 gears and drive conservatively the LS series will have very good fuel efficiency too. :thumbsup:

[ZedMan]

Companies are also already making kits for the more popular (ie. LSx rx7) swaps.

[Cody D]

If we are talking about horsepower with the most stock components I don't think you can beat the Ford GT, Joes TT GT is pushing over 1000hp on mostly stock components.

The cool thing about the fast 4 bangers is nobody expects them, beating a Viper with a Talon is where it's at.

[hjr]

its a very versatile engine with literally tonnes of after-market support. good power potential, decent mpg potential, good reliability overall, decades of experience in the platform.....

best engine in the universe though i would suggest is completely subjective and depends on what criteria makes it the 'best'. good, yes. best, maybe.

[Hoey]

Originally posted by Cody D
If we are talking about horsepower with the most stock components I don't think you can beat the Ford GT, Joes TT GT is pushing over 1000hp on mostly stock components.

I already said 2JZ-GTE 1098RWHP on BONE stock internals and were comparing 30K Cars VS. 270K Cars.

And to bring a stock engine from 550HP to 1000HP isnt as hard as
280 - 1000. 2JZ obviously kicks the fords ass there.

NOT BASHING FORD, Fords are my fav domestic..
My dream domestic is the GT, my "feesible" dream domestic is the Stang Cobra.

Best engine in the uni - No. Period.
Best V8 - Maybe, Probably not
Best economical V8 swap into Import - Probably

Like hjr said "good power potential, decent mpg potential, good reliability overall, decades of experience in the platform....."
Hes right - Overall Great engine...

[Annoyingrob]

Originally posted by Hoey
2JZ-GTE?
1098 rwhp record on stock internals?

Haha, I just knew someone would mention a 2JZ in this thread. I am a huge fanboy as you can tell (look at my avatar), but the damn JZ engines are HEAVY. Of course, I just LOVE the sound of an I6 :)


As fof the SMART car comment, Hayabusa engine in a SMART car, BEST SWAP EVER!


You can't honestly think you can walk into a place like this, and ask people if the LS1 is the best engine in the universe. Yeah, it's a damn good engine, and that means a lot coming from me, a person who HATES doemstics, but there is no "best engine in the universe", it just doesn't exist.

What makes the best engine? Is it pure power? Is it reliability (to what degree)? Is it weight? Is it efficiency?

[Hoey]

Originally posted by Annoyingrob

but the damn JZ engines are HEAVY.

hahahaha I think anything made by
Toyota/Lexus With a "J" or a "Z" in the chassis number automatically has "I'm fat." written all over it.

[Tuner1]

Originally posted by tentacles


What actually prompted me to start this thread was reasing about Tunerworks' LS1 powered M3. Those Euro engines have NOTHING on the LS, and they probably cost like 3 or 4x as much. :eek:



I guess actions speak louder than words so everyone knows what I think about the LSX motors ;)

Having owned many ///M cars, a 2JZ Supra, a 4G63 Talon, etc, etc I think I am in a position to compare all of these and the LSX really is a wonderful unit compared to almost anything on the planet, however you can compare all the numbers until you are blue in the face and you'll never get everyone to agree on what is best.

To each his own and variety is the spice of life. I'd love to have a garage filled with cars powered by all of these engineering marvels :thumbsup:

Rob

[tentacles]

It seems all the new sporty cars coming out are coming with V8s. I guess we'll see when they actually come out, but the new M3, new Skyline and IS-F (spiritual succesor to the Supra?)are all rumoured to have V8s, and these are cars that have traditionally used I6 engines. Is lightweight, high displacement NA V8 the way of the future?

[LilDrunkenSmurf]

Where did you hear this? Can you quote sources, because I can say the same, I heard that the Skyline was still an I6, but I have nothing to back me up... And I doubt N/A is the future... Turbo's are more cost effective in *some* cases... some manufacturers are moving towards them, such as the RDX, or the Mazdaspeed lineup.

I think the world is moving more towards a smart car kind of idea, at least until another form of fuel is plausible.

[tentacles]

Just rumours. I don't think it's public knowledge yet, so let's wait and see.

[GITRDUN]

Originally posted by LilDrunkenSmurf
I think the major downside to the LS1, is the gas mileage...

Why don't you go look up gas mileage figures for:

98-02 LS1 Camaro's, Trans AM's & Firebirds
97-04 LS1 Corvettes
01-04 LS6 Corvette Z06's

Power range: 305hp - 405hp
1/4 mile range: 13.3 @ 107mph - 11.8 @ 117mph
FUEL CONSUMPTION on LS1 & LS6 engines: 19/28 mpg city/hwy

What a big fucking downside, they sip fuel like your average family sedan.

[LilDrunkenSmurf]

Originally posted by GITRDUN


Why don't you go look up gas mileage figures for:

98-02 LS1 Camaro's, Trans AM's & Firebirds
97-04 LS1 Corvettes
01-04 LS6 Corvette Z06's

Power range: 305hp - 405hp
1/4 mile range: 13.3 @ 107mph - 11.8 @ 117mph
FUEL CONSUMPTION on LS1 & LS6 engines: 19/28 mpg city/hwy

What a big fucking downside, they sip fuel like your average family sedan.

Thanks for reading buddy, it was already disproved...

Glad we finally had a domestic guy come out so he can ream me... I was waiting for this... Go for it... rip a hole in every single one of my arguments

[Toms-SC]

Originally posted by LilDrunkenSmurf


Thanks for reading buddy, it was already disproved...

Glad we finally had a domestic guy come out so he can ream me... I was waiting for this... Go for it... rip a hole in every single one of my arguments

Do a little, and I mean just a little research next time and it might not happen :thumbsup:

[gp36912]

you have to remember the gearing on those cars were built for the engine, whereas if you transplant the engine into another car it may have different resulting fuel consumption. o and btw, gas milage figures vary from city to city due to elevation, and from car to car. and the figures they put out are usualy done at the best conditions possible at that time.

[LilDrunkenSmurf]

Originally posted by Toms-SC


Do a little, and I mean just a little research next time and it might not happen :thumbsup:

If I did that, then no one else would have any fun disproving me... :drama:

Haha I'll try to be more accurate in my statements... It might help me out alot... haha I'm sure a lot of people would be happier.

[ZedMan]

Originally posted by gp36912
and the figures they put out are usualy done at the best conditions possible at that time.

Oh, you mean like how they do it for every other car out there? :rolleyes:

[benyl]

Originally posted by gp36912
you have to remember the gearing on those cars were built for the engine, whereas if you transplant the engine into another car it may have different resulting fuel consumption. o and btw, gas milage figures vary from city to city due to elevation, and from car to car. and the figures they put out are usualy done at the best conditions possible at that time.

Most people swap the tranny as well as the rear diff when they do an LSX swap.

[benyl]

Originally posted by Hoey


I already said 2JZ-GTE 1098RWHP on BONE stock internals and were comparing 30K Cars VS. 270K Cars.

And to bring a stock engine from 550HP to 1000HP isnt as hard as
280 - 1000. 2JZ obviously kicks the fords ass there.



The cost of bringing a 2JZ-GTE to those power levels is enormous. Who gives a shit if the internals are stock, everything else isn't. With the amount spent on everything else, you may as well upgrade the internals.

[95EagleAWD]

Originally posted by msommers
You guys are talking good performance and good gas mileage? Sorry guys it's either or, not both

Really?

I get 35+ MPG on the highway in the NSX, and it's got "good" performance.

With headers and a catback, it's 300+ at the crank and that's nothing to sneeze at with 3 litres displacement and no forced induction.

[benyl]

Originally posted by 95EagleAWD


Really?

I get 35+ MPG on the highway in the NSX, and it's got "good" performance.

With headers and a catback, it's 300+ at the crank and that's nothing to sneeze at with 3 litres displacement and no forced induction.

but where's da torque? hehe

[smontyLS1]

Most of the ls1-rx7s are more than capable of getting 30 mpg with more than 300 rwhp. but really when your running low/sub 12 second quarter miles why would you bother argueing about gas mileage. you might as well argue whos getting more track time for their money, in which case an ls1 swap would lose. Who argues that at least they had less distance to walk between shots in golf? anyway this topic is right up my alley with my swap almost in the car. the conversion kit cost me $500 btw and there is no cutting or welding involved. It should be done by spring and I'll be sure to bring it out to meets.

I'm a big fan of the 2JZ as well and with some cars being imported in with that engine for less than $4000 it might be a more feasable engine than people think?

[tentacles]

I think he was talking more about fuel efficiency versus hard driving. The Z06 gets such great EPA fuel efficiency and avoids the gas guzzler tax because it comes from the factory with 2nd and 3rd gear disabled. If you only drive your car in 4th gear then yeah it's going to sip gas, it won't be very fast off the line either. The point being that even a big V8 is good on gas as long as you shift up early (V8 == lots of low end torque, I don't think you want to go from 1 to 4 on a Civic) drive mostly on the highway and not laying down the rubber at every stoplight.

[95EagleAWD]

Originally posted by benyl


but where's da torque? hehe

It'd have 250+ ft/lbs... :dunno:

[gp36912]

^^^ ya but you don't put your foot through the floor 24/7 either i bet. at least thats not what i saw when you were at the cruise down to banff lol. hell you can drive a ferrari effieciently but who the hell would want to???

[95EagleAWD]

Originally posted by gp36912
^^^ ya but you don't put your foot through the floor 24/7 either i bet. at least thats not what i saw when you were at the cruise down to banff lol. hell you can drive a ferrari effieciently but who the hell would want to???

I bomb around the city, but on the highway, no, I don't cruise around at 150 mph all the time. Still, at 80-85 I can get great mileage.

[JAYMEZ]

Originally posted by Hoey


hahahaha I think anything made by
Toyota/Lexus With a "J" or a "Z" in the chassis number automatically has "I'm fat." written all over it.

Are you calling my car fat??! I dont think she would like that lol.


Originally posted by benyl


The cost of bringing a 2JZ-GTE to those power levels is enormous. Who gives a shit if the internals are stock, everything else isn't. With the amount spent on everything else, you may as well upgrade the internals.


No doubt , defiantly an exspensive build up that im ALMOST finished. This summer is going to be a beaut!