Cops are being sneaky

[Fuji]

Just saw people getting pulled over for infractions. Basically the cops pretended to be a tow truck, but they were actually calling in all the violations to a group of cops up ahead. That is low IMO. I think that if they caught you the "regular way" it would be ok, but this method is pretty low.

THE THREAD IS NOT INTENDED TO START HEATED ARGUMENTS
just a heads up

[mwmhong]

This isn't that much different from using an unmarked police vehicle and I don't see what the problem is.
It's very sneaky but should NOT be considered 'low'; they are not doing anything morally or legally wrong. :dunno:

On the CFCN news, I saw lots of people getting pulled over, illegal tint was being torn off and some people were PISSED at the cops. Oh well.....:rolleyes:

[Speed_Dreams]

I for one don't Care if the cops catch someone for Illegal tint or illegal lights...but when I see Cops Speeding without lights on and driving dangerously that pisses me off.....If they are going to a Call they should have there lights on just to make sure that they don't cause an accident. I have seen it almost happen a couple times. I know they are there to "Serve and Protect" but are they Above the law?

[Fuji]

Originally posted by mwmhong
This isn't that much different from using an unmarked police vehicle and I don't see what the problem is.
It's very sneaky but should NOT be considered 'low'; they are not doing anything morally or legally wrong. :dunno:

On the CFCN news, I saw lots of people getting pulled over, illegal tint was being torn off and some people were PISSED at the cops. Oh well.....:rolleyes:

True in a way, but unmarked is not BLATANTLY lying about the purpose. I mean if I lied to a cop about my purpose that is pure deceit.

[HillBilly]

What an exellent example of "To serve and protect"

:banghead:

[CrAzY_PLaYa]

isnt it "To Serve & Collect"? :dunno:

[benyl]

Originally posted by Speed_Dreams
I for one don't Care if the cops catch someone for Illegal tint or illegal lights...but when I see Cops Speeding without lights on and driving dangerously that pisses me off.....If they are going to a Call they should have there lights on just to make sure that they don't cause an accident. I have seen it almost happen a couple times. I know they are there to "Serve and Protect" but are they Above the law?

Yes, according to them, they are above the law. Sometimes going to a call requires discretion. No lights no siren.

[EstoMax]

i saw a cop run a stale yellow light once... that was kinda dumb imo, cause it went red as he was half way across


max

[HOK]

is the tow truck is a cop? or is Busters doing this.. because it HAS to be a cop that witnesses the "crime" just double checking...

There has to be a law against impersonating a tow truck driver. hahahah

[mwmhong]

Originally posted by Fuji


True in a way, but unmarked is not BLATANTLY lying about the purpose.


Traffic cops ALWAYS use things like lifted-up trunklids, unmarked and slicktop cars, broken/abandoned cars, trees, poles, bus shelters, power boxes, blind corners, hill crests and overpasses to help conceal themselves to nab people.

How is utilizing a tow truck any different? :dunno:

Similar examples of police 'deceit':

Cops hiding up in the high rises downtown spying on prostitution.
Booby-trapped cars that trap the car thieves inside.
Cops in riced-out J-bodies nabbing challengers/haters.


The key principle is that they want to catch you in the act.
They're not going to be 100% nice, friendly and honest and let you know ahead of time because they wouldn't catch anybody.

It's just part of the game.
It is a form of deceit that is merely 'prima facie' wrong because it only punishes those who are caught doing something wrong.
If you are innocent of any wrongdoing then you are fine, right?

Real-life Example:

I used to work at the SCAM-pede selling ride coupons and we were only supposed to sell special passes to certain people. Some hillbilly-looking guy comes up and asks for a special pass and I sell it to him. After I take the cash, give him his special pass and his change, he flips out his wallet and shows his ID. Works for some undercover audit commitee for the Stampede and says I should only be selling these to certain people and that my supervisor will be informed of this. I thought he was just a normal customer and I was DECEIVED. There is nothing wrong with what he did.




Originally posted by Fuji

I mean if I lied to a cop about my purpose that is pure deceit.


You cannot equate mere visual concealment/deceit to direct verbal deceit.
They are two different things.

Lying to a cop verbally is just the same as the cop lying to you verbally. Both are wrong in simple everyday situations.*

This is totally different from the cops wanting to visually conceal/deceive to nab people.

The thread title is correct, Cops are SNEAKY. That is how they catch people doing things wrong. In being so sneaky they are not doing anything wrong.


*However, cops do have an edge whereby they can in certain situations lie verbally but that is only to catch the bad guys, which is within their power. This matter is outside of the scope of this issue, which is strictly about visual concealment/deceit.*

[VWhooligan]

when i was 16 i was in the car with a friend that just got his license. he was driving recklessly and sped past an ambulance.

cop pulled us over about 2 minutes later because the ambulance called it in. they didnt give him a ticket though because he wasn't there and didnt witness anything. just a warning.

[sil-eightyDrift]

Dont they have more important things to do? I mean there teenagers running rampant smoking and having a nickle bag of pot to be cought!! arnt there ever any real crimes to be delt with? oh wait some one wiht a loud exhaust or tint are wose then rapists sorry. Mabye they should give us some incentive not to speed and it wouldnet happen anynmore :banghead: they arnt doing anything wrong by hiding, it just annoying how they are "cracking down" when there are more important things to do

[mwmhong]

Originally posted by sil-eightyDrift
Dont they have more important things to do? I mean there teenagers running rampant smoking and having a nickle bag of pot to be cought!! arnt there ever any real crimes to be delt with? oh wait some one wiht a loud exhaust or tint are wose then rapists sorry. Mabye they should give us some incentive not to speed and it wouldnet happen anynmore :banghead: they arnt doing anything wrong by hiding, it just annoying how they are "cracking down" when there are more important things to do

I'm quoting myself below :)


Originally posted by mwmhong
You can't tell them "don't you have bigger things to go after." They're not going to let all the speeders, drunk drivers, burglars and rapists go because a mass murderer is on the loose. Illegal is illegal, regardless of its severity, you have something illegal and they catch you, you pay for it.

Also, just because you see traffic cops pulling people over doesn't mean they're neglecting the other bad guys.

Most of the 'more important things' are CALLED IN and they have patrolling officers to handle those calls while the others are busy collecting revenue.

I guess if you want to be cynical, you can view this mass vehicle pullover as a greater show of police presence that is much more profitable. :D

[Ben]

Originally posted by sil-eightyDrift
Dont they have more important things to do? I mean there teenagers running rampant smoking and having a nickle bag of pot to be cought!! arnt there ever any real crimes to be delt with? oh wait some one wiht a loud exhaust or tint are wose then rapists sorry. Mabye they should give us some incentive not to speed and it wouldnet happen anynmore :banghead: they arnt doing anything wrong by hiding, it just annoying how they are "cracking down" when there are more important things to do

you fail to know ANYTHING about the police force and how they have departments.

There are many kinds of cops including traffic cops, their job is to look for violations of the HTA. There are cops assigned to 187's and all that good stuff.

I've seen many cases where someone will make a brutal traffic violation right in front of a cop, but they are on their way to an investigation or have something more important to do, so dont sit there and ramble about the "have nothing better to do" trash.

if you are assigned to traffic duty, then that is your job.

End of discussion.

[mwmhong]

I think it's actually divided up by unit, and the revenue collecting traffic cops aren't necessarily what you would call the 'cream of the crop'.

Even other cops diss them and say they aren't even real cops! :rofl:

Anyways, carry on troops. :)

[SeRb]

i don't see what's so wrong about just obeying the law?

i mean if you're not doing anything wrong then you dont have to worry about a cop pulling you over for something

obviously if you see them and you're doing something wrong ie. speeding you will slow down before they have a chance to go after you. . .

like when i drive, i usually go like 10km/h over the limit . . . and most cops dont care unless it's in a school zone

theres alway's a cop car beside this school, theres stuff infront of where he stands, so you can't really see him untill you're like 5-10 metres away from it

[Hollywood]

Serve and collect I like that.

I still dont understand why exhaust tips are illegal.

[98type_r]

Originally posted by Hollywood
Serve and collect I like that.

I still dont understand why exhaust tips are illegal.

and i don't understand why my medium tint that you can see through is illegal

[Toma]

Originally posted by SeRb
i don't see what's so wrong about just obeying the law?

i mean if you're not doing anything wrong then you dont have to worry about a cop pulling you over for something


This is just plain wrong though. I have been pulled over many times for no reason. Once, I was even froced to get out of my vehicle, and searched. I did NOTHING wrong.

I got a bogus ticket for running a stop sign (I did stop). I got a bogus ticket for turning on a red without coming to a full stop.... that was BS. I got a ticket for not turning into the closer lane, when the law plainly states that you do not have to turn into the closer lane if there is someone parked within half a block to the intersection (it was the cop himself that was parked in the way).... etc etc. etc.

That is why cops have a bad wrap. Some of them are plain and simple power tripping assholes.

Why is tint illegal if you add it later, but legal if the car was originally so equipped? Why can cops blow stop signs (or roll through them), but when we do it, its a $200 fine? And really....why are muffler tips illegal? A Harley bikes is louder then 99% of "our" cars. Why are seat belts mandatroy? Safety data shows that at low speeds typical of city driving, seat belts CAUSE more injuries then they prevent....

When it dongs on you that it is nothing but a cash grab, it kinda makes you mad....

Toma

[SeRb]

you got a point there Toma. . .

i've been driving for about like 4 months and i've only gotten pulled over twice. . .

once was because it was an alcohol check, no harm there, i'm glad to see cops doing that. . .

another time my tail light was out. . .
and that wasnt a big deal either cuz he was driving behind me, and then while he was there it went out. . .

so i dont have much reason to be angry with the cops

[Fuji]

Essentially 2 wrongs don't make a right. Cops luring you into a race shouldn't be allowed. They are not above the law in anyway they enforce what is on paper and that is it.


concealment/deciet. I mean, based on teh same premise a criminal conceals or decieves his/her main purpose. Either way, police are not "special". The have a duty to serve and protect not decieve and rape you in the ass and take your money. I agree they should be doing their job, but not in the fashion they are doing now. Essentially they are setting themselves up for the general public to lose faith/trust in a cop. WHo knows who is a cop or if they are real etc. I mean it is illegal to impersonate a police officer it should be vice versa in any situation.

[SI-vic]

Originally posted by Fuji
Essentially they are setting themselves up for the general public to lose faith/trust in a cop.

I think the shits already hit the fan....
many people are angered with these recent mark-ups in tickets.
Ok, I havent been reading much on these ticket mark-ups as much as I should be but what was the Police's reason for these mark-ups?
The amount that the mark-ups are...... they're ridiculous.

I've talked to a lot of nice cops before, lots of them are really cool and funny, but it sucks that its the "corrupt/jerk/asshole" cops that make the whole squad look bad.

[benyl]

Originally posted by Fuji
I mean it is illegal to impersonate a police officer it should be vice versa in any situation.

Sorry, but I have to disagree here. I may watch too many movies, but I suspect that it is based on some truth. Cops impersonate people all the time. That is how drug dealers are caught. That is how Johns are caught picking up prozzies. They have to do it.

If you are on the road and a cop pulls up in a cruiser and he revs you, are you going to race him? I think not.

What people keep forgetting is that a driver's license is a PRIVILEGE and not a RIGHT. If you abuse your privilege by speeding, you get punished.

Better things to do? Where do you draw the line? Pull people over who are doing 10 over the limit, 20, 30??? Honestly, I wouldn't blame cops if they went zero tolerance and pulled you over for 1 over the limit. Breaking the law is breaking the law... there is no grey, only black and white.

[Sakattack]

Damn... didn't any of you READ the first post....

[mwmhong]

Originally posted by Fuji
Essentially 2 wrongs don't make a right.


Because of prima facie wrongs, 2 wrongs do make a right in certain instances. :angel:


Originally posted by Fuji
Cops luring you into a race shouldn't be allowed.

Cops lure all the time, if you don't do anything wrong when the bait is there, you have NOTHING to worry about.
They set a trap to catch people who BREAK THE LAW.
Cops do the same thing with drug deals, weapons, prostitution, auto theft, theft from homeless/helpless etc.
Why is racing/speeding any different? :dunno:

I would hate to imagine the incidents when cops have LURED rapists/violent robbers where instead of a bunch of 'deceitful' cops running a sting operation there would have been helpless victims.



Originally posted by Fuji
They are not above the law in anyway they enforce what is on paper and that is it.
concealment/deciet. I mean, based on teh same premise a criminal conceals or decieves his/her main purpose. Either way, police are not "special". The have a duty to serve and protect not decieve and rape you in the ass and take your money. I agree they should be doing their job, but not in the fashion they are doing now.

Police are given special powers BY LAW to catch people who break the law.
If you're condemning the police for using deceit to catch bad guys, then that is fetching for straws.

Is there some legal/moral requirement that one must SEE/KNOW ABOUT the presence of a police officer before they are held accountable for breaking the law?

Maybe we should set certain criminals loose (ONLY those that were caught by undercover police).
Those poor criminals, they had no idea and were DECEIVED by those rotten sneaky cops. :rolleyes:

Cops use deceit for good, crooks use deceit for bad; do not equivocate the two as the same thing to condemn the police for being sneaky. Case closed.



Originally posted by Fuji
Essentially they are setting themselves up for the general public to lose faith/trust in a cop. WHo knows who is a cop or if they are real etc. I mean it is illegal to impersonate a police officer it should be vice versa in any situation.

This is a somewhat better argument against undercover cops, this is a HUGE problem down in the States, people are impersonating cops, pulling people over with fake cop cars and sexually assaulting/robbing them, other fakers are commiting home invasion robberies.

A few years ago, parked at Scurfield Hall was this White Caprice with a thick-barred ski rack mounted on the roof (looked just like a cop light bar at night, dead serious) and black steel wheels. Wannabe-cop ricer, WTF.


Carry on, troops. :)

[The Raptor]

Originally posted by benyl


Yes, according to them, they are above the law. Sometimes going to a call requires discretion. No lights no siren.

Oh you mean when they are on their way to Tim Hortons? Right....:rolleyes:

[GP_DrIvEr]

Originally posted by 98type_r


and i don't understand why my medium tint that you can see through is illegal

ive only got 35% tint or 65% lux whatever is second from lowest, ive been pulled over at least 3-4 times for other things and the cops dont bother me at all about my tint :dunno: maybe ive just been lucky :D

[GP_DrIvEr]

Originally posted by The Raptor


Oh you mean when they are on their way to Tim Hortons? Right....:rolleyes:

haha in the winter i had just left my work and was taking a turn on a dead road, and drifted around it, there was only one car about 6-8 car lengths behind me and it was a cop, luckily he was on his was to the tim hortons just up the street and let me off :D

[Toms-Celica]

Basically, if a police officer ever rips, tares or doe's anything to my car causing damage, I will call a lawyer. I would rather get my car towed then get ghetto ripped apart.

[SeRb]

Originally posted by benyl


What people keep forgetting is that a driver's license is a PRIVILEGE and not a RIGHT. If you abuse your privilege by speeding, you get punished.

Honestly, I wouldn't blame cops if they went zero tolerance and pulled you over for 1 over the limit. Breaking the law is breaking the law... there is no grey, only black and white.


:werd:

obey the law and u wont have nothing to worry bout

[Fuji]

Originally posted by mwmhong


Because of prima facie wrongs, 2 wrongs do make a right in certain instances. :angel:

Cops lure all the time, if you don't do anything wrong when the bait is there, you have NOTHING to worry about.
They set a trap to catch people who BREAK THE LAW.
Cops do the same thing with drug deals, weapons, prostitution, auto theft, theft from homeless/helpless etc.
Why is racing/speeding any different? :dunno:

I would hate to imagine the incidents when cops have LURED rapists/violent robbers where instead of a bunch of 'deceitful' cops running a sting operation there would have been helpless victims.
Police are given special powers BY LAW to catch people who break the law.
If you're condemning the police for using deceit to catch bad guys, then that is fetching for straws.

Is there some legal/moral requirement that one must SEE/KNOW ABOUT the presence of a police officer before they are held accountable for breaking the law?

Maybe we should set certain criminals loose (ONLY those that were caught by undercover police).
Those poor criminals, they had no idea and were DECEIVED by those rotten sneaky cops. :rolleyes:

Cops use deceit for good, crooks use deceit for bad; do not equivocate the two as the same thing to condemn the police for being sneaky. Case closed.

This is a somewhat better argument against undercover cops, this is a HUGE problem down in the States, people are impersonating cops, pulling people over with fake cop cars and sexually assaulting/robbing them, other fakers are commiting home invasion robberies.

A few years ago, parked at Scurfield Hall was this White Caprice with a thick-barred ski rack mounted on the roof (looked just like a cop light bar at night, dead serious) and black steel wheels. Wannabe-cop ricer, WTF.


Carry on, troops. :)

Basically if this holds an eye for an eye is valid and being a vigilante is no worse because they are doing it to uphold the law. Even though the police have pwer they often abuse it (having a bad day etc). What you are saying is 100% valid, however you are missing the fact that a highway/traffic offense is in no way similar to a criminal offense, hence the measure taken for the latter should be more extreme. Police have power to do many things, but only if it pretains to a criminal offense not a violation of the highway traffic act, With that said there are idiots who endager the general public, who should be held accountable and are based on the law.

All I am stating is they are using unreasonable measures for comparatively minor infractions.

[Sakattack]

Originally posted by mwmhong

Cops use deceit for good, crooks use deceit for bad; do not equivocate the two as the same thing to condemn the police for being sneaky. Case closed.



The ENDS justify the means????? Are you some kind of tyrannt? Have you ever studied law? Your messing up penal law with regulatory law... (apparently the cops are also) if cops start using methods or powers given to them with criminal penal and applying them to regulatory laws then your in big trouble... bluring the line between the different classes is when you end up in a camp because of your race. Undercover? Drugs? Rape?? have you listened to yourself man... the guy is speeding... mostly not even over 15-20 kms. Your going to be sadly surprised when one day you think you did nothing wrong and ended up with a $500 ticket for something that you were accused of doing... this has happened to me and the Cop just plain lied in the courtroom. i had 3 witnesses and they were all dismissed because of thier age. 24-26.

[mwmhong]

Originally posted by Sakattack

The ENDS justify the means?????

Yes they do. The only way to evaluate the means are to look at the ends that are achieved.
When people use that phrase it is due to an incomplete account of the ends that are brought about.


Originally posted by Sakattack

Are you some kind of tyrannt?

NO. :confused:


Originally posted by Sakattack

Have you ever studied law?

I took business law and philosophy of law many years ago, but I forgot alot of it. :(



Originally posted by Sakattack

Your messing up penal law with regulatory law... (apparently the cops are also) if cops start using methods or powers given to them with criminal penal and applying them to regulatory laws then your in big trouble... bluring the line between the different classes is when you end up in a camp because of your race.

I apologize for those examples because Fuji was comparing ILLEGAL criminal deceit to LEGAL police deceit.
Apart from that, how am I blurring the lines between the law?
You break it you bought it, simple as that.
I'm not advocating 15-year jail terms for people who merely speed or tickets and fines for rapists am I?
How does all this make me end up in a camp?



Originally posted by Sakattack
Undercover? Drugs? Rape?? have you listened to yourself man... the guy is speeding... mostly not even over 15-20 kms.

Yes, they do use undercover cops to catch measely speeders and ricers, just as they use undercover cops to get after the 'more important stuff'. Those who are caught breaking the law are punished by the law accordingly.

What is the problem? :dunno:


Originally posted by Sakattack
Your going to be sadly surprised when one day you think you did nothing wrong and ended up with a $500 ticket for something that you were accused of doing... this has happened to me and the Cop just plain lied in the courtroom. i had 3 witnesses and they were all dismissed because of thier age. 24-26.

So I can turn the tables on you and say that you are blurring the lines between a justified and legal use of deceit by the police to enforce the law VERSUS an officer making a false statement in a courtroom against you which is ILLEGAL and UNJUSTIFIED and thereby condemning BOTH?

[Toma]

Originally posted by benyl


What people keep forgetting is that a driver's license is a PRIVILEGE and not a RIGHT. If you abuse your privilege by speeding, you get punished.


Nope. How can using the roads and HIGHWAYS YOU PAID for and pay to maintain through absurd taxes, gas tax, tire tax, income tax, property tax etc. possibly be a privelege?

IT IS A RIGHT.

[SeRb]

Originally posted by Toma


Nope. How can using the roads and HIGHWAYS YOU PAID for and pay to maintain through absurd taxes, gas tax, tire tax, income tax, property tax etc. possibly be a privelege?

IT IS A RIGHT.

If it is a right, then how come they can take it away from you?:poosie:

[EstoMax]

Originally posted by SeRb


If it is a right, then how come they can take it away from you?:poosie:

it is a right but if u abuse it they can take it from you if you abuse it... i mean living is a right not a privilege right? if u kill someone or many people then your life will be taken away (Execution/life in prison usually)

[benyl]

Originally posted by SeRb


If it is a right, then how come they can take it away from you?:poosie:

:werd: Not only that. You have to take a test in order to have the privilege of driving. If you do not pass the test, you CANNOT drive!

some definitions for you:

license-permission to engage in an activity granted by an authority

privilege-something granted as a benefit, advantage, or favor

right-something to which one is entitled

[Sakattack]

Originally posted by mwmhong



I apologize for those examples because Fuji was comparing ILLEGAL criminal deceit to LEGAL police deceit.
Apart from that, how am I blurring the lines between the law?
You break it you bought it, simple as that.
I'm not advocating 15-year jail terms for people who merely speed or tickets and fines for rapists am I?
How does all this make me end up in a camp?
Yes, they do use undercover cops to catch measely speeders and ricers, just as they use undercover cops to get after the 'more important stuff'. Those who are caught breaking the law are punished by the law accordingly.



You are bluring the line and ignoring everything besides penalties. I'm not talking about penalties. I'm talking about enforcement and the power of the police being unbalanced with the degree of the crime. A plain clothes officer is VASTLY different then a police person "representing" as another person (undercover).


Originally posted by mwmhong
So I can turn the tables on you and say that you are blurring the lines between a justified and legal use of deceit by the police to enforce the law VERSUS an officer making a false statement in a courtroom against you which is ILLEGAL and UNJUSTIFIED and thereby condemning BOTH?

Thats the problem with your arguement. You don't understand what a "just" law is. Just because an officer or a judge enforces a certain law and it may be "LEGAL" in all views of common law (by the way is written by a bunch of people, politicians (i'll never get over that), it still may not be "just". I'm not really arguing with you about this specifically, but you seem to blindly follow whatever is told to you by the law book. This case would need more investigation, but I would assume that this was a case where police "bended" the law a little. Hiding behind bushes or sitting in an unmarked police vehicle is not undercover. What is your definition?

[mwmhong]

I'm going to re-arrange your post so it's easier to reply :)



Originally posted by Sakattack

A plain clothes officer is VASTLY different then a police person "representing" as another person (undercover).
Hiding behind bushes or sitting in an unmarked police vehicle is not undercover. What is your definition?


You got me. :D
You are correct, I have misused the term undercover to refer to unmarked vehicles.
When an unmarked police vehicle is representing a civilian vehicle I guess it is not the same as an undercover cop representing a criminal. I used the term to indicate the use of deceit/concealment (which this thread is about).
So yes, in the proper terms, I am wrong. :(



Originally posted by Sakattack
You are bluring the line and ignoring everything besides penalties. I'm not talking about penalties. I'm talking about enforcement and the power of the police being unbalanced with the degree of the crime.

The use of unmarked cars and obstacles to hide behind make the traffic police nothing but concealed observers and do not intrude upon peoples rights until a law is broken. The most severe the traffic cops get is the unmarked riced-up J-body which could be a weak form of entrapment, and I'll let the courts deal with that.

So, what I am supporting (what the police are doing currently) does NOT give the police an unreasonable or excessive amount of power to invade peoples privacy, subject them to undue harassment or violate any of their rights when it comes to traffic offences. They are merely watchmen. Using true undercover police would actually be ridiculous for something like speeding.



Originally posted by Sakattack

Thats the problem with your arguement. You don't understand what a "just" law is. Just because an officer or a judge enforces a certain law and it may be "LEGAL" in all views of common law (by the way is written by a bunch of people, politicians (i'll never get over that), it still may not be "just". I'm not really arguing with you about this specifically, but you seem to blindly follow whatever is told to you by the law book. This case would need more investigation, but I would assume that this was a case where police "bended" the law a little.

Generally, everyone is equal before the law, but common law and the discretion of judges has allowed many cases to be ruled whereby holding people equal before the law would be unjust in a free and democratic society. Again, I leave that up to the courts. :)

I am not blind to the fact that some laws may be unjust when applied, but I just don't know how to answer questions like:


Maybe the revised traffic penalties and the vehicle towing are excessive?
Maybe it's the use of profiling, the targeting of modified vehicles and their selective use of discretion that are making the police unjust?


I've done the philosophy/morality/ethics so I am actually more moralist than legalist, but debates about morality get very long and very drawn out. It gets really complicated if you weigh every little morally relevant factor as to what is truly just. Then you have to compare that with the law and decide whether they are acceptably congruent or not.

To keep it simple, I just follow the law, but if something is blatantly unjust/immoral in a certain case, then I will disagree with it.

Regarding traffic laws, I see nothing materially unjust with the methods the police are using or the penalties that result from motorists getting caught by the police. Yes, there is some profiling and sometimes subjective discretion, but generally, we are all treated relatively equal under those laws.

[Sakattack]

I generally agree and don't want to continue this snooze fest, lol. but are thier methods wrong? maybe not entirely. But the police profiling is becoming rediculous. I wouldn't say it is "light". But what I do have a problem with is that police DO lie and "make" up tickets in some cases. And it has happened to me. I couldn't beleive it. But for an $80 ticket i just let it go. Now that tickets are 5 times that...

anyways... zzzzzzzzzzzzzz :P

[mwmhong]

Originally posted by Sakattack
I generally agree and don't want to continue this snooze fest

We should start getting idiotic, irrational and violent!
We need better ratings! :D

Carry on. :zzz:

[DannyBoy6000]

Cop's pritty much do what they want.They speed,Don't use ther turn signals ect.When your a cop you pritty much have it made.

[403Gemini]

Originally posted by Fuji
Just saw people getting pulled over for infractions. Basically the cops pretended to be a tow truck, but they were actually calling in all the violations to a group of cops up ahead. That is low IMO. I think that if they caught you the "regular way" it would be ok, but this method is pretty low.

THE THREAD IS NOT INTENDED TO START HEATED ARGUMENTS
just a heads up

so say they use this method, pull over a drunk driver that was behind your girlfriend driving like an asshole... wouldnt you feel happy then? theres a chance they just saved her life... think about it.

[KoukiS14]

Originally posted by DannyBoy6000
Cop's pritty much do what they want.They speed,Don't use ther turn signals ect.When your a cop you pritty much have it made.

Holy Old Thread Resurrection Batman!!

[mwmhong]

I saw this 'Real TV' episode that had this 'undercover' traffic cop in the US that would use really sneaky tactics.

He'd pretend to be a broken down truck, a city engineer working on something, or a homeless guy sitting on his ass on the side of the road with the radar gun in his lap. He'd also get in this cherry picker (those cranes with the buckets you stand in) and clock speeders from up in the trees. Ninja! :eek:

[jdmmavericktR]

Originally posted by Toma


Nope. How can using the roads and HIGHWAYS YOU PAID for and pay to maintain through absurd taxes, gas tax, tire tax, income tax, property tax etc. possibly be a privelege?

IT IS A RIGHT.

If you don't drive/have a driver's license you wouldn't pay tire tax or gas tax.

I also can't think of any rights that we pay for.

[Vaine0]

o