"Please don't feed the Homeless"

[Vagabond142]

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2007/02/03/national/main2429393.shtml

Discuss :nut:

[Whitetiger]

Homelessness and poverty are probably going to be an endless topic in this world.

Only discussion is to appreicate what you already have. ;)

[2BLUE]

I give them spare change and when i buy some new jeans or something i take the old ones to a shelter or something of the sort. :thumbsup:

My g/f is big on getting bag loads of stuff and giving it away.

[Super_Geo]

This is so American, and so disugsting...

[CasperWho]

Originally posted by Super_Geo
This is so American, and so disugsting...

No Shit! Thats exactly what I thought.

[Xtrema]

I don't know, with EI and so many other welfare programs, you just have to wonder people who REMAIN homeless must be one of the follow:

1) Crazy

2) Lazy

3) Addicts

4) All of the above

And if a booming economy still produce so many homeless people, what can we really do to handle this problem?

[Super_Geo]

Originally posted by Xtrema
I don't know, with EI and so many other welfare programs, you just have to wonder people who REMAIN homeless must be one of the follow:

1) Crazy

2) Lazy

3) Addicts

4) All of the above

And if a booming economy still produce so many homeless people, what can we really do to handle this problem?

Only with the hypercaptialistic setup of the American ecnomy, the rich have been (and will be) getting richer, and the poor poorer. The relative percentage of people who would fall into the 'lower class' category has been increasing and the 'upper class' decreasing, all while the American economy has grown by leaps and bounds in the past few decades. I don't think it's nearly as straight cut as what you stated in your post.

[eb0i]

I rather feed the homeless than give money to the panhandlers. :dunno:

[Isaiah]

Originally posted by Super_Geo

Originally posted by Xtrema
I don't know, with EI and so many other welfare programs, you just have to wonder people who REMAIN homeless must be one of the follow:

1) Crazy

2) Lazy

3) Addicts

4) All of the above

And if a booming economy still produce so many homeless people, what can we really do to handle this problem?
Only with the hypercaptialistic setup of the American ecnomy, the rich have been (and will be) getting richer, and the poor poorer. The relative percentage of people who would fall into the 'lower class' category has been increasing and the 'upper class' decreasing, all while the American economy has grown by leaps and bounds in the past few decades. I don't think it's nearly as straight cut as what you stated in your post.

I agree with you with respect to the American problem, but I agree with Xtrema 100% with regarding Canada's homeless epidemic. With the social assistance, job placement programs, and subsidized housing that we have here, there is practically no reason whatsoever except those listed by Xtrema for someone to be homeless. The government will even educate you at their expense if you can't afford it.

[ninjak84]

Originally posted by Xtrema
I don't know, with EI and so many other welfare programs, you just have to wonder people who REMAIN homeless must be one of the follow:

1) Crazy

2) Lazy

3) Addicts

4) All of the above

And if a booming economy still produce so many homeless people, what can we really do to handle this problem?

I consider myself as being '4) All of the above', and I'm still not homeless or poor.

[herragge]

I think if they are not any of those things above, then at the moment there should be no reason for them to be jobless. The shittiest places are hiring nowadays for easy labor at quite a decent amount. I am quite unsympathetic towards homeless as my childhood and where I grew up didn't really allow any sympathy.

Mike

[GTS Jeff]

Originally posted by Xtrema
I don't know, with EI and so many other welfare programs, you just have to wonder people who REMAIN homeless must be one of the follow:

1) Crazy

2) Lazy

3) Addicts

4) All of the above

And if a booming economy still produce so many homeless people, what can we really do to handle this problem? I think what you're saying has some merit, but you've ignored the social and familial barriers that often trap people in these situations like homelessness.

If there's one thing the economic boom has brought into the general conciousness of our redneck province, it's a lack of empathy for fellow human beings. :thumbsdow

[duffspec]

Originally posted by GTS Jeff
I think what you're saying has some merit, but you've ignored the social and familial barriers that often trap people in these situations like homelessness.

If there's one thing the economic boom has brought into the general conciousness of our redneck province, it's a lack of empathy for fellow human beings. :thumbsdow

AHAHAHAHAHHA this comming from the dude that created "food for bums" thread. :rofl:

[R-Audi]

I think the above mentioned list has quite a bit of merit.. there is a large advertising push in the DT core in Calgary to not give the beggers money.. as most of the time you are only fueling their addiction.
I have no problem giving food, but have also had that thrown back at me, as all they want is money to get drunk/high/whatever else. You can't throw everyone is the list, but I would say the majority fits in quite nicely. When you can sit on cash corner and get $10 an hour tax free... there isnt really any need for the useless bums begging on the corner.

I personally have little to no tolernace or sympathy for the homeless addicts...

[Isaiah]

Originally posted by R-Audi
I think the above mentioned list has quite a bit of merit.. there is a large advertising push in the DT core in Calgary to not give the beggers money.. as most of the time you are only fueling their addiction.
I have no problem giving food, but have also had that thrown back at me, as all they want is money to get drunk/high/whatever else. You can't throw everyone is the list, but I would say the majority fits in quite nicely. When you can sit on cash corner and get $10 an hour tax free... there isnt really any need for the useless bums begging on the corner.

I personally have little to no tolernace or sympathy for the homeless addicts...

Cash corner...another good point.

[Toms-SC]

Originally posted by GTS Jeff
it's a lack of empathy for fellow human beings. :thumbsdow

Hobo Pie

[Super_Geo]

Originally posted by R-Audi
I think the above mentioned list has quite a bit of merit.. there is a large advertising push in the DT core in Calgary to not give the beggers money.. as most of the time you are only fueling their addiction.

Those ads are sponsored and put up by the big businesses in downtown Calgary. They're just trying to force the homeless somewhere else so it's no longer 'their' problem. Problem is... where else are they going to go? You want bums hanging around your neighborhood and around where your kids play instead of downtown? I wouldn't...

[Canmorite]

"It's a sorry state of affairs when you can feed the squirrels, the doves and pigeons at Lake Eola, but not a hungry guy down on his luck."

Because it's usually'bad luck' for anyone who ends up on the street.

That or addiction, alcholism, bad planning, being lazy, scraping EI, poor work ethic, lack of education, etc etc.

[googe]

Originally posted by GTS Jeff
I think what you're saying has some merit, but you've ignored the social and familial barriers that often trap people in these situations like homelessness.

If there's one thing the economic boom has brought into the general conciousness of our redneck province, it's a lack of empathy for fellow human beings. :thumbsdow

But further to that, nothing is more frustrating than investing effort in trying to help someone that refuses to help themselves.

My coworker's wife is a social worker, and even she says these people have more than enough resources that they dont take advantage of and just milk said empathy out of others as much as they can. Really, the homeless are demonstrating the same lack of empathy and greed that the big oil boys do, on their own scale.

You're ignoring the social and familial barriers that trap big CEOs into greed and exploitation. It's not their fault they have these insecurities.

[GTS Jeff]

Originally posted by googe


But further to that, nothing is more frustrating than investing effort in trying to help someone that refuses to help themselves.

My coworker's wife is a social worker, and even she says these people have more than enough resources that they dont take advantage of and just milk said empathy out of others as much as they can. Really, the homeless are demonstrating the same lack of empathy and greed that the big oil boys do, on their own scale.

You're ignoring the social and familial barriers that trap big CEOs into greed and exploitation. It's not their fault they have these insecurities. Just because the resources are available to these people does not mean that they capable of putting them to good use. What good does a government program like EI do for the bum on 7th ave that doesn't have a SIN number? How can this dude even get a SIN number without an address? Do you think he could ever even get his shit together enough to get a PO Box or something when he's totally smashed off Lysol? Maybe, if he was an exceptionally strong charactered person, but how likely is that when you grow up abused by your stepdad? More likely he's going to keep hitting the drugs and booze because they're the quickest escapes from a shitty reality.

The problem here is that you people keep thinking from your own perspective. You keep saying, "well gosh darn, if I was homeless, I'd get a damn job." Well you wouldn't exactly be so idealistic if you grew up in a broken family and spent your whole life on the streets. You know the value of hard work and the ethic of personal responsibility because you were taught these things in your good upbringing and solid social surroundings. Do you really expect Johnny Four Scars on the streets to have these same things? Really, all he's ever known was boozing on the streets.

I had many of the same biases the rest of you did for a long time, and it was ignorant of me, because it was an opinion formed from a lack of understanding. Over the past few years, I've had a chance to become more educated on the subject; I've read literature by aboriginal Canadians, I've done a bit of social work, and I've even had a chance to volunteer with inner city youth. All these experiences have opened my eyes, excuse the lame phrase, and made me think a lot differently.

[googe]

The point I was trying to make is, do it for a few more years, and you'll find yourself going back to where you came from.

Its like there are stages. First youre ignorant to them and their circumstances (actually I think most people never progress past this stage). Then your eyes open up and sympathize with them and criticize those acting like you used to. Then you realize you can only lead the horse to the water every day for so long, and when it wont just take a drink, you want to drown the damn thing.

Im not advocating being a cold hearted asshole to them, but I can empathize with the "dont feed the bears" idea. Nature has always been that way, humans are no exception. Help is one thing, but enabling a poor lifestyle is even more damaging and irresponsible. They do the minimum required to survive, but they are still survivors, so if that minimum is raised they will adapt accordingly.


But dude, theres no way you can criticize people for bashing the homeless...you totally turned that card in permanently when you made the food for bums thread :nut:

[R-Audi]

Originally posted by GTS Jeff
Just because the resources are available to these people does not mean that they capable of putting them to good use. What good does a government program like EI do for the bum on 7th ave that doesn't have a SIN number? How can this dude even get a SIN number without an address? Do you think he could ever even get his shit together enough to get a PO Box or something when he's totally smashed off Lysol? Maybe, if he was an exceptionally strong charactered person, but how likely is that when you grow up abused by your stepdad? More likely he's going to keep hitting the drugs and booze because they're the quickest escapes from a shitty reality.

The problem here is that you people keep thinking from your own perspective. You keep saying, "well gosh darn, if I was homeless, I'd get a damn job." Well you wouldn't exactly be so idealistic if you grew up in a broken family and spent your whole life on the streets. You know the value of hard work and the ethic of personal responsibility because you were taught these things in your good upbringing and solid social surroundings. Do you really expect Johnny Four Scars on the streets to have these same things? Really, all he's ever known was boozing on the streets.

I had many of the same biases the rest of you did for a long time, and it was ignorant of me, because it was an opinion formed from a lack of understanding. Over the past few years, I've had a chance to become more educated on the subject; I've read literature by aboriginal Canadians, I've done a bit of social work, and I've even had a chance to volunteer with inner city youth. All these experiences have opened my eyes, excuse the lame phrase, and made me think a lot differently.


Ok, here is my try:

1. I believe places like the Mustard seed and others will provide a mailing address if you need one. BUT you can only stay on EI for so long... you have to prove that you are doing something to better your position.

2. Most people weren't born on the streets, and originally had a place to stay. All you are doing is giving them excuses, or as they say 'enabling' My perspective? See next point.

3. Ok, on the side of personal learning. I have a family member that is a full blown crack/coke head. I have seen personally a guy go from multiple cars, house, good family to nothing, and all based on drugs. It was HIS choice, HE turned to drugs for an escape.. and what part of that is anyone supposed to feel bad for? Sure there were thigns in the past that werent great. All you can do is offer help, but if the people arent willing to do anything with that hand, its useless. And then you have to think, at what point is the 'help' really just enabling the user to keep on using? People HAVE to hit rock bottom to realize what they have become.


On on a side note.. how many people have offered food to a homeless person on the street only to have it rejected? I have had some tell me they didnt like it, when it was in an enlcosed container! If that doesnt tell you something about what they really want.. what does? Its for reasons like this that fuel the 'dont give to beggers' cause I would say a majority of the time, they arent looking for food.. or for a bus ticket... they are looking to fuel their addiction.

[Toms-SC]

Heres my take:

Forced Labor camps

They work

We provide:
Pay
Place to sleep
Food
Clothes
Care

No more bums

[msommers]

Originally posted by Toms-SC
Heres my take:

Forced Labor camps

They work

We provide:
Pay
Place to sleep
Food
Clothes
Care

No more bums

So ship them to China? Oh, or up north working on the oil patch? Actually this does happen, which is nice to see.

I can understand GTS Jeff's point, it's actually straight from my family. My grandma re-married. The husband had a son who was a serious alcoholic. And Googe said it best, you do go through those stages.

First off, I thought he was a lazy bum, who didn't do much but have great ideas, no motivation, money or ethics.

Then whenever he came over for family dinners, I got to know him. It was obvious he had problems, and we all knew it, and we tried to help. We ended up helping him get set up in the Salvation army on the east side of downtown where he got a room, kitchen and a mailbox. He ended up getting a job. However, his battle with alcohol was very strong.

We helped him get into a rehabilitation centre, a controlled environment where everything you need is provided at a cost we all supplied, myself included, he is family after all. He lasted about 2 months. He ended up getting drunk, passed out and a burning cigarette lit his quarters up, and consquently passed away in the blaze.

It's so hard, trying to help someone, when deep down you know you're only making yourself feel better because you know nothing is going to change. How do we then combat a problem with no solution? We have some solutions for people but sometimes there is no changing people.

[lint]

Originally posted by GTS Jeff
Just because the resources are available to these people does not mean that they capable of putting them to good use. What good does a government program like EI do for the bum on 7th ave that doesn't have a SIN number? How can this dude even get a SIN number without an address? Do you think he could ever even get his shit together enough to get a PO Box or something when he's totally smashed off Lysol? Maybe, if he was an exceptionally strong charactered person, but how likely is that when you grow up abused by your stepdad? More likely he's going to keep hitting the drugs and booze because they're the quickest escapes from a shitty reality.

The problem here is that you people keep thinking from your own perspective. You keep saying, "well gosh darn, if I was homeless, I'd get a damn job." Well you wouldn't exactly be so idealistic if you grew up in a broken family and spent your whole life on the streets. You know the value of hard work and the ethic of personal responsibility because you were taught these things in your good upbringing and solid social surroundings. Do you really expect Johnny Four Scars on the streets to have these same things? Really, all he's ever known was boozing on the streets.

I had many of the same biases the rest of you did for a long time, and it was ignorant of me, because it was an opinion formed from a lack of understanding. Over the past few years, I've had a chance to become more educated on the subject; I've read literature by aboriginal Canadians, I've done a bit of social work, and I've even had a chance to volunteer with inner city youth. All these experiences have opened my eyes, excuse the lame phrase, and made me think a lot differently.

WTFBBQ!!?? Is this an owning? I can't believe that I'm agreeing with GTS Jeff.

[death_rabbits]

I agree with jeff, there's lots of reasons for people to become homeless, and its not really they're fault. to eleaborate on jeff's point, the only thing u can get out of life is what u expect from it. if everyone u look up to (ie your parents) r alcoholics, addicts, and basically homeless, then that's what u expect for yourself. also u can only apply for EI if u have been working. if your parents r alcoholics/druggies, etc, then chances r you're going to be kicked out of your home, or have them lose their home at an early age, and you'll end up on the street too. if you're on the street at something like age 15 you're probably not going to get a job, which means you will never work long enough to be able to be on EI, so government aid doesn't apply to you. and on top of all that most of these people have mental incapacities such as fecal alcohol syndrom which really doesn't help them to figure way out of their situation. also a big force pushing homelessness in alberta is the sharp rise in housing prices. if housing prices go up, and you only make $8/hr and you have a couple kids then you don't have enough to support your family and pay rent at the same time. even with governmnt aid for ahving children isn't enough to pay for a two bedroom at $800 or more / month with 3 mouths to feed. so what happens? you lose your house, and probably your children because u can't support hem, and they go off to live in group homes and you're out on the street, and then what happens when u keep going to work without showering for days on end because you no longer have a home? u lose your job, and now u have no money, and ur unemployable. even if u qualify for EI at this time, you can only be on it for so long before they cut u off, and then you're fucked. homelessness is a compex issue, there's many ways u can end up in that kind of a situation without it being your fault. nobody chooses to be homeless.

[krisopotamus]

I don't believe that good people can become homeless. On TV and other things they portrait them as people who lost their jobs and have no where else to go yadda yadda. I for one, if I lost my job I would immediately be looking for another one, and there are always plenty of jobs that anyone could get one if they really tried. It's just that they give up, go homeless, then look like a mess that no one will hire even if they do change their minds...

[ashee]

Originally posted by R-Audi



Ok, here is my try:

1. I believe places like the Mustard seed and others will provide a mailing address if you need one. BUT you can only stay on EI for so long... you have to prove that you are doing something to better your position.

2. Most people weren't born on the streets, and originally had a place to stay. All you are doing is giving them excuses, or as they say 'enabling' My perspective? See next point.

3. Ok, on the side of personal learning. I have a family member that is a full blown crack/coke head. I have seen personally a guy go from multiple cars, house, good family to nothing, and all based on drugs. It was HIS choice, HE turned to drugs for an escape.. and what part of that is anyone supposed to feel bad for? Sure there were thigns in the past that werent great. All you can do is offer help, but if the people arent willing to do anything with that hand, its useless. And then you have to think, at what point is the 'help' really just enabling the user to keep on using? People HAVE to hit rock bottom to realize what they have become.


On on a side note.. how many people have offered food to a homeless person on the street only to have it rejected? I have had some tell me they didnt like it, when it was in an enlcosed container! If that doesnt tell you something about what they really want.. what does? Its for reasons like this that fuel the 'dont give to beggers' cause I would say a majority of the time, they arent looking for food.. or for a bus ticket... they are looking to fuel their addiction.

Amen.
These people have so much opportunity, this city is hurting for people to work and has many facilties/programs willing to help these people find work (ie: provide them with an address, place to shower, food, etc.). I always wonder what these people have done in their lives and/or who they have pissed off to end up in the situation they are now, honestly everyone has had family/friends or some kind of social services that would have surely tried to help them as much as they could. Homelessness is a choice, if they wanted to better their lives they wouldn't be so helpless.

[GTS Jeff]

Originally posted by R-Audi



Ok, here is my try:

1. I believe places like the Mustard seed and others will provide a mailing address if you need one. BUT you can only stay on EI for so long... you have to prove that you are doing something to better your position.

2. Most people weren't born on the streets, and originally had a place to stay. All you are doing is giving them excuses, or as they say 'enabling' My perspective? See next point.

3. Ok, on the side of personal learning. I have a family member that is a full blown crack/coke head. I have seen personally a guy go from multiple cars, house, good family to nothing, and all based on drugs. It was HIS choice, HE turned to drugs for an escape.. and what part of that is anyone supposed to feel bad for? Sure there were thigns in the past that werent great. All you can do is offer help, but if the people arent willing to do anything with that hand, its useless. And then you have to think, at what point is the 'help' really just enabling the user to keep on using? People HAVE to hit rock bottom to realize what they have become.


On on a side note.. how many people have offered food to a homeless person on the street only to have it rejected? I have had some tell me they didnt like it, when it was in an enlcosed container! If that doesnt tell you something about what they really want.. what does? Its for reasons like this that fuel the 'dont give to beggers' cause I would say a majority of the time, they arent looking for food.. or for a bus ticket... they are looking to fuel their addiction.

Guys, what I'm trying to do here is show that there is more to the issue than what you guys are thinking. Are some people homeless because they're just lazy? Sure. But there are also homeless folk that aren't really there by choice. I think it's terribly misinformed to make blanket statements the way everyone was until my post came along in this thread.



Originally posted by msommers
I can understand GTS Jeff's point, it's actually straight from my family. My grandma re-married. The husband had a son who was a serious alcoholic. And Googe said it best, you do go through those stages.

First off, I thought he was a lazy bum, who didn't do much but have great ideas, no motivation, money or ethics.

Then whenever he came over for family dinners, I got to know him. It was obvious he had problems, and we all knew it, and we tried to help. We ended up helping him get set up in the Salvation army on the east side of downtown where he got a room, kitchen and a mailbox. He ended up getting a job. However, his battle with alcohol was very strong.

We helped him get into a rehabilitation centre, a controlled environment where everything you need is provided at a cost we all supplied, myself included, he is family after all. He lasted about 2 months. He ended up getting drunk, passed out and a burning cigarette lit his quarters up, and consquently passed away in the blaze.

Another factor no one has brought up is GENETICS. Some of you may be too stubborn to consider this train of thought, but ask any psych major and they'll be able to tell you about studies showing genetic predisposition to stuff like alcoholism. Of course, alcoholism is still a choice, but it's important to recognize that it's multifactorial. See guys? This whole issue is really quite complex, and more than, "what a lazy fuck."

[GTS Jeff]

Originally posted by googe
But dude, theres no way you can criticize people for bashing the homeless...you totally turned that card in permanently when you made the food for bums thread :nut: I am simply participating in a thought provoking conversation. If you really have a problem with that, I can stop posting here. Just say the word and I'm gone.

[finboy]

Originally posted by ashee


Amen.
These people have so much opportunity, this city is hurting for people to work and has many facilties/programs willing to help these people find work (ie: provide them with an address, place to shower, food, etc.). I always wonder what these people have done in their lives and/or who they have pissed off to end up in the situation they are now, honestly everyone has had family/friends or some kind of social services that would have surely tried to help them as much as they could. Homelessness is a choice, if they wanted to better their lives they wouldn't be so helpless.

i think what jeff is trying to say, is that you can give someone all the tools in the world, but if they never learned how to use those tools, or don't have the ability to use those tools, then they won't be able to build anything for themselves.

[GTS Jeff]

Originally posted by finboy


i think what jeff is trying to say, is that you can give someone all the tools in the world, but if they never learned how to use those tools, or don't have the ability to use those tools, then they won't be able to build anything for themselves. Meh, I think she is merely being a yes-man for everyone else in an attempt to move up the social ladder of Beyond. Her sig makes me shudder too.

[Xtrema]

Originally posted by Toms-SC
Heres my take:

Forced Labor camps

They work

We provide:
Pay
Place to sleep
Food
Clothes
Care

No more bums

I like it. But some liberals will say that's abusing human rights.

There are so many farmers that get screwed by Mexican import labor that these people may be able to put into good use.

If you get caught pan handling or any type of begging you get sent to labor camp/detox for 1 year. Then another year of supervised work outside of camp before you turn into a free man. I'll pay money for that than our current homeless shelter which basically not really helping anyone but the operators' egos.

[googe]

Originally posted by GTS Jeff
I am simply participating in a thought provoking conversation. If you really have a problem with that, I can stop posting here. Just say the word and I'm gone.

Haha, just that the denouncing our ignorant rednecks with overtones of "I would never act that way towards a fellow human" is a bit incongruent with what you showed us. Really, I dont care (and I still think the food for bums was roflerrific) I just have to call you on it. I dont disagree with you and I dont disagree with them either.


I think the fact that everyone discusses it as much as they do means that on some level they know theyre selfish bastards that should be doing more. And Im no exception.

Something compels everyone to overthink and debate the situation and why they dont need to help, and its obviously guilt.

[ashee]

Originally posted by GTS Jeff
Meh, I think she is merely being a yes-man for everyone else in an attempt to move up the social ladder of Beyond. Her sig makes me shudder too.

You've got me all figured out don't you:rolleyes:

[finboy]

and the cracks start to show

[ninjak84]

Originally posted by ashee
You've got me all figured out don't you:rolleyes:

Care to show us anything we haven't got figured out?

Get lost.

If you're going to stay, don't be so foolish as to expect any respect. Respect is earned, not given.
Besides, Jeff has you pegged 100%.


Originally posted by ashee
Homelessness is a choice, if they wanted to better their lives they wouldn't be so helpless.

Haha!
Tell me, is being overweight a choice? How about having bad hair? Or terrible nails?
The naivete of your judgment makes me ill. Welcome to my ignore list.

[R-Audi]

Originally posted by GTS Jeff


Guys, what I'm trying to do here is show that there is more to the issue than what you guys are thinking. Are some people homeless because they're just lazy? Sure. But there are also homeless folk that aren't really there by choice. I think it's terribly misinformed to make blanket statements the way everyone was until my post came along in this thread.

Another factor no one has brought up is GENETICS. Some of you may be too stubborn to consider this train of thought, but ask any psych major and they'll be able to tell you about studies showing genetic predisposition to stuff like alcoholism. Of course, alcoholism is still a choice, but it's important to recognize that it's multifactorial. See guys? This whole issue is really quite complex, and more than, "what a lazy fuck."

My posts are based on the groups of homeless people I see everyday waking to and from work. The same ones you see every day begging for change while beer cans roll around behind them. And also the same ones that turn down food and only want money. Don't get me wrong there have been one or two out of maybe 20 that live around me that truly are trying to better their position, but from my experience, the majority are not. The majority are the ones wheezing on their crack pipes, and begging for beer money.

I know genetically some people have an addictive personality, and am quite aware of what addictions are and can do. (refer to aprevious post) BUT by making excuses you are also enabling these people....

Thats great that you have taken Pysch courses and can pull that as an excuse, but try having a family member that is an addict, and have your mother have to go through rehab courses with them. My guess is will would be singing a different tune. By feeling sorry, or giving change you are enabling these people to keep on using. Untill they hit absolute rock bottom, they have no reason to make any changes.