How old do you believe the Earth is, roughly.

[89coupe]

Having this debate on my site, thought I would give it a try here as well.

Feel free to reply how you voted and why.

[doublepostwhore]

Scientific calculation > jesus

[Mazstyle]

I was having a debate with a good friend of mine on this very topic. He's religious and says the earth is maybe 6000 years old, and I totally disagree, just think about how long it takes for oil to be created, coral reefs, volcanically formed islands like hawaii...

[Crymson]

I voted for the scientific age, because any other "age" is ludacrous, and i feel embarassed for anyone brainwashed into thinking the bible could possibly be a credible source for anything other than evidence for humanity's gullability.

I hope this turns into another debate on religion, there cannot be enough of them. Even if only 1 person out of 10,000 takes time to rethink their religious beleif and perhaps draws a logical conclusion, it's worth it.

[Mangina]

The earth is about 35, and I'm the only real person on it. The rest of you are here to entertain me.

P.S. Who cares?

[im2fst4u]

Scientific data shows that it is 4.5 Billion but if you choose the Bible as your source, 6000 yrs old. Not likely that it is only 6000 and here is a good site that will explain.

http://www.geocities.com/questioningpage/Evolve1.html

[abyss]

science>bible in this respect.

[Hakkola]

I'm Christian and I believe the Earth is 4.5 Billion years old.

Nowhere in the Bible does it say the earth is 6000 years old.

I don't really take the whole 6 day creation thing literally, try explaining years and process of creation to someone 6000 years ago in terms of billions. :rofl: I think 6000 years is a good indication of how old modern man is.

I believe in God, and evolution.

[89coupe]

Originally posted by im2fst4u
Scientific data shows that it is 4.5 Billion but if you choose the Bible as your source, 6000 yrs old. Not likely that it is only 6000 and here is a good site that will explain.

http://www.geocities.com/questioningpage/Evolve1.html

Great read.:thumbsup:

[ashee]

It's actually 4.65 billion, according to my geology prof.

[MtYurmom]

Originally posted by ashee
It's actually 4.65 billion, according to my geology prof.

"It's actually 4.65 billion (saying it like you or he knows for fact), according to (saying as if it was his theory) my geology prof."

Anyone find the oxymoron in that?

Ashee, i know you get bashed alot about other subjects... dont let science/geology be another. <3

[Crymson]

Originally posted by MtYurmom


&quot;It's actually 4.65 billion (saying it like you or he knows for fact), according to (saying as if it was his theory) my geology prof.&quot;

Anyone find the oxymoron in that?

Ashee, i know you get bashed alot about other subjects... dont let science/geology be another. &lt;3

Hey, well at least if another Geology prof claims it's 4.5 BYO, Ashee's geology prof won't strap 25 lbs of plastic explosives onto his chest and march in into the other prof's office to have a "debate".

-1 religion.

[Hakkola]

Very good read, which brought me to this:
http://www.reasons.org/resources/apologetics/notable_leaders/index.shtml

Which is exactly the view I hold, didn't know so many known christians agreed.

I think the idea of a 6000 year old earth is childish, and comes from simple, uneducated christians who refuse to let go of what their mommy and daddy told them.

[Hakkola]

Originally posted by Crymson


Hey, well at least if another Geology prof claims it's 4.5 BYO, Ashee's geology prof won't strap 25 lbs of plastic explosives onto his chest and march in into the other prof's office to have a &quot;debate&quot;.

-1 religion.

I don't know of any religions that actually condone that.

-1 canadian education system.

[MtYurmom]

Originally posted by Crymson


Hey, well at least if another Geology prof claims it's 4.5 BYO, Ashee's geology prof won't strap 25 lbs of plastic explosives onto his chest and march in into the other prof's office to have a &quot;debate&quot;.

-1 religion.

:confused:


Originally posted by Hakkola


I don't know of any religions that actually condone that.

-1 canadian education system.

:clap: :clap:

[justincalgary]

I am totally not religous at all, but was raised religous. The whole 6000 years thing isn't literally 6000 years. If god took 7 days to create all that stuff, and 1 second to god is a lifetime for us than it would probably work out.

[hoamic11]

i'll tell you this much, earth is really OLD!!!

[lint]

Originally posted by Hakkola
I'm Christian and I believe the Earth is 4.5 Billion years old.

Nowhere in the Bible does it say the earth is 6000 years old.

I don't really take the whole 6 day creation thing literally, try explaining years and process of creation to someone 6000 years ago in terms of billions. :rofl: I think 6000 years is a good indication of how old modern man is.

I believe in God, and evolution.

How do you pick what parts of the bible to take literally, and others to refute? Not trying to start a flame, but honestly interested in knowing how people chose what to believe.

This question has been in my head for a while and recently came up again as I've started reading "End of Faith" by Sam Harris.

[Q-TIP]

Originally posted by ashee
It's actually 4.65 billion, according to my geology prof.

what geology proff is that, and what year of geology are you in and what school do you attend. the earth by geologic records is between 4.4 and 4.7 bya.

send pm and we can chat geology if you are a geo major.

[MtYurmom]

Originally posted by Q-TIP


what geology proff is that, and what year of geology are you in and what school do you attend. the earth by geologic records is between 4.4 and 4.7 bya.

send pm and we can chat geology if you are a geo major.

Hittin on the one and only chick on beyond... "Show you my rock collection."

[hjr]

come on, science is a belief, the same as religion. i believe that the world is around 6k years old, is that so bad?

[anarchy]

Originally posted by MtYurmom


Hittin on the one and only chick on beyond... &quot;Show you my rock collection.&quot;

HAHA!
Do it up Q! :bigpimp:

[Smokem]

Justincarlgary has a point.

I think that this argument comes from our intepretation and disagreement on what a specific length of time is.

ie. 6000 years in the bible may literally mean 4.6 billion calendar years... it's all relative to your instrument of measurement.

I may say a couple of miles and mean 3200m, you may say a couple of miles and mean Calgary to China.

[89coupe]

Originally posted by hjr
come on, science is a belief, the same as religion. i believe that the world is around 6k years old, is that so bad?

Science in this subject uses mathematical deduction.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/math/5/7/4/5745038b9e2e8de753a5d12a2d52b697.png

t = age of the sample
D = number of atoms of the daughter isotope in the sample
P = number of atoms of the parent isotope in the sample
ë = decay constant of the parent isotope
ln = natural logarithm

[Smokem]

And another point, in light of this argument, in my humble opinion. this is what I'm led to believe:

1. The Earth is a marvellous place, to consider the chemical sensitivities that had to be in place for it to be a habitable planet is mind-boggling, almost magical in a sense. There had to be some higher power working on it and some serendipity as well.

2. In the span of time the Earth has been around, we humans have occupied but a tiny speck, ie. if the life of the earth was a year, we would have arrived 11:59pm Dec 31

3. We are seriously f*cking up the ecosystems with the way we live, pollute, destroy habitats, etc. to quote Agent Smith, we really are a virus on this planet. Not to say we should be tree huggers, but we should learn to respect it more, do our part and not litter, learn to conserve/recycle, stuff like that.

[Tik-Tok]

Anyone who believes the Earth is 6000 years old is a loon :nut:

You CAN be a good Christian, and NOT take the bible, in the literal sense, word for word, it would be appalingly naive to do so.

To answer the orig post.

I believe it's 4.5 Billion, as I believe fact more than religion. Even this may be way off though as we aren't omnipotent and whatever method they used to prove this may be flawed.

[nonlinear]

Originally posted by Smokem
And another point, in light of this argument, in my humble opinion. this is what I'm led to believe:

1. The Earth is a marvellous place, to consider the chemical sensitivities that had to be in place for it to be a habitable planet is mind-boggling, almost magical in a sense. There had to be some higher power working on it and some serendipity as well.



bull shit. life as we know it required some pretty specific initial conditions, but that doesn't mean that there was some higher power mixing the pot to make things happen. if the conditions were different, life would be different. it's funny how people invoke magic spritis rather than parsimony,

[nonlinear]

for thereligious peeps here:

why do you beleive in god?

how is it possible to beleive in both god and science? there is absolutely no scientific evidence for god, and although it is impossible to disprove the existnce of god, there is a ton of evidence against what rel;igions claim and there is not a shred of evidence for god

[Hakkola]

The only things I take literally are the regular, literal stories. I believe all the people in the bible were real, all the events were real, though maybe not as we know them. I don't believe the great flood covered the entire earth, it more likely covered what to Noah was the known world. Things like that, if I told you what I take literally and what I don't, we would be sitting here for years.

There is also the problem with translation, the hebrew word for day can also be translated as epoch, which can mean a period of time, not necessarily a day. Also in the creation of man, it is said that he is made out of the earth, (not exact words, but I'm too lazy to look it up), which IMO goes along with theory of evolution. I think there's a good possibility that the modern form of the bible in english still varies significantly from the original hebrew texts.

I believe in God, and Science, and it's very easy to do so. Who's to say God isn't reponsible for the rules of the universe and the big bang? Evolution and the big bang in no way conflict with what is said in Genesis (the first book of the bible).

You can say it's impossible to believe in God, but I also find it impossible to believe that something, can come from nothing. Where does the universe come from?

Who knows, maybe the universe is just laying in a petri dish somewhere.

[Hakkola]

Originally posted by hjr
come on, science is a belief, the same as religion. i believe that the world is around 6k years old, is that so bad?

Yeah, it is. It has been proved false, and nowhere in the bible does it say the world is 6000 years old, so why would you believe that?

[blue Zed]

Just the other side of the coin i add two links even tho i don't believe the earth is 6000 yrs old or god but science has a few theory's that wants us to take a leap of faith as well

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=5207159640493874061&q=evolution

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-6814048597272982882&q=evolution

let's have a real debate!with both side

[lint]

Originally posted by hjr
come on, science is a belief, the same as religion. i believe that the world is around 6k years old, is that so bad?

Science tends to have supporting evidence. Can the same be said of religion?

[Smokem]

Originally posted by nonlinear



bull shit. life as we know it required some pretty specific initial conditions, but that doesn't mean that there was some higher power mixing the pot to make things happen. if the conditions were different, life would be different. it's funny how people invoke magic spritis rather than parsimony,

That's a pretty selfish way of thinking. Try finding a planet like ours that's habitable at least in this SOLAR SYSTEM (my bad). What happened with Earth and the evolution of humanity is like hitting a one in trillion lottery ticket. It's obvious from the manner in which you posted (saying bullshit to my opinion) that you have a lack of respect for others' opinions, which leads me to my next point...

As far as religious belief, I balance science and religion. I believe in God and something to look forward to at the end of my days... I believe in living through the ideals, having humility and integirty in this world. The worship is just a ritual (I may not agree with it all at times) but I see it as kind of like believing in keeping fit and staying in shape but the working out is the discipline involved in achieving this. The ritual and worship is "working out" my spirituality. I also believe spirituality can be attained from many other sources, this just happens to be one that is more convenient than others. It makes me look forward to being a better person, a better friend, better son... but lately I've been wondering whether or not I should just f*ck it all because few in this world think of anyone else but themselves.

If you've ever hoped for, wished for anything, loved someone even, you've committed and act of belief (faith) in which you substantiated your want to something bigger than yourself for it to happen. Whatever that "something" is, is at your discretion.

As previously stated, THIS IS MY OPINION. Agree or disagree but respect it.

[Smokem]

Originally posted by lint


Science tends to have supporting evidence. Can the same be said of religion?

The evidence that religion exists is shown through people's intents and actions. It is inherent and built into what they believe.

Science has empirical factual evidence; religion has empirical evidence conveyed through belief

[Fado]

Originally posted by Smokem


That's a pretty selfish way of thinking. Try finding a planet like ours that's habitable at least in this galaxy. What happened with Earth and the evolution of humanity is like hitting a one in trillion lottery ticket.


Try to find a planet like ours in at least this galaxy thats habitable? I got one finger that will tell you just how many different planets humans have even been to, and its raised high. You dont think that out of the almost infinite number of planets and galaxies within our universe that only ONE has any sort of life on it, do you? Now THATS ignorant. Unless of course you dont believe in other planets. However if you DO believe in other planets, did your education system or church not teach you probability?

A situation that resulted in a planet that could support life was bound to happen in at least one spot in our universe, it wasnt some invisible man who coughed up a universe, and then took the earth into his fingers and moved it a precise distance away from the sun.

[Smokem]

Originally posted by Fado


Try to find a planet like ours in at least this galaxy thats habitable? I got one finger that will tell you just how many different planets humans have even been to, and its raised high. You dont think that out of the almost infinite number of planets and galaxies within our universe that only ONE has any sort of life on it, do you? Now THATS ignorant. Unless of course you dont believe in other planets. However if you DO believe in other planets, did your education system or church not teach you probability?

I meant solar system, my grade four education is killing me here. I guess I'm bound to deserve as many condescending comments and insults for that, hey... no problem, fire away.

[Fado]

Originally posted by Smokem


I meant solar system, my grade four education is killing me here.

Well if you meant solar system, im even more dissapointed. Of COURSE we are the only planet in our solar system thats habitable for humans. Earth is the only one thats in a decent enough spot in orbit around the sun to do so. Whats your point? Did you forget about the OTHER solar systems? Did you forget that just in our galaxy alone, our sun shares its space with over 200 billion other stars just like it? Thats in ONE galaxy. Did I mention there is more than one? Cmon bud, science rules all.


Is there anyone here who wont give us the BS "God exists because of such and such"? I prefer the more fact based "this does this and that means that, therefore etc.".

[Smokem]

There was an interesting movie about this, satrred Jodie Foster, many years ago called Contact, you should check it out. Sometimes there are things that can't be explained... that was my underlying point. Science can only prove the things that exist empricially, that are touchable, tangible, with substance. Science cannot prove a belief, humans alone prove beliefs.

Can we agree to that?

[Fado]

Originally posted by Smokem
There was an interesting movie about this, satrred Jodie Foster, many years ago called Contact, you should check it out. Sometimes there are things that can't be explained... that was my underlying point. Science can only prove the things that exist empricially, that are touchable, tangible, with substance. Science cannot prove a belief, humans alone prove beliefs.

Can we agree to that?

So we should believe the Bible because Jodie Foster hopped in a steel ball that transported her to a beach on a weird planet to walk the sand with her dad? Amazing, truly amazing.

You do know that Contact is a fictional movie, not to be pursued religiously, right?

[Smokem]

...and even still science has not proven existence of life in another planet or galaxy. Science alludes to the probability of life elsewhere given the number of planets, composition of matter, etc. out there, so in effect you are invalidating science to a certain degree no?

[Fado]

Originally posted by Smokem
...and even still science has not proven existence of life in another planet or galaxy.

There is a different between "hasn't proven" and "cant be prooved".

Life on other planets or glaxies can't be proven yet because we dont have the ability to at this time. We are still continuously finding more and more space in the universe, and its only a matter of time before we can start proving or disproving things. You on the other hand sit on a shitpot that can't even be proved or not, because there is nothing to use to find proof:dunno: .

[Smokem]

Originally posted by Fado


So we should believe the Bible because Jodie Foster hopped in a steel ball that transported her to a beach on a weird planet to walk the sand with her dad? Amazing, truly amazing.

Holy shit (yes i said that lol) you truly are condescending...

Science can only prove the things that exist empricially, that are touchable, tangible, with substance. Science cannot prove a belief, humans alone prove beliefs.

That was my statement in which I was agreeing to what we both are saying.

[Smokem]

Originally posted by Fado


There is a different between &quot;hasn't proven&quot; and &quot;cant be prooved&quot;.

So you're saying it can't be proven?? I thought you stuck to the science and the facts? The existence of God can't be proven either there bud, which is what I'm trying to say. Can't be proven, but only expressed through belief.

Anyways I'm done here. Let's get back to the point of the thread.

[Fado]

^ I edited my post while you posted that. Read the ending.

Originally posted by Fado


There is a different between &quot;hasn't proven&quot; and &quot;cant be prooved&quot;.

Life on other planets or glaxies can't be proven yet because we dont have the ability to at this time. We are still continuously finding more and more space in the universe, and its only a matter of time before we can start proving or disproving things. You on the other hand sit on a shitpot that can't even be proved or not, because there is nothing to use to find proof:dunno: .

[Smokem]

What's the whole light at the end of tunnel thing that countless people have spoken of in near death situations then? Perhaps one day that can be proven too. People have spoken of Mohammed and Jesus to have once existed here too...

Anyways, don't call it a shitpot, I could care less, but that could be so incredibly disrespectful to others.

[Q-TIP]

Originally posted by MtYurmom


Hittin on the one and only chick on beyond... &quot;Show you my rock collection.&quot;


hey hey now, I'm in a committed relationship with a nurse, don't be thinking I'm going for other rock nerds here! :angel:

[Fado]

Originally posted by Smokem
What's the whole light at the end of tunnel thing that countless people have spoken of in near death situations then? Perhaps one day that can be proven too. People have spoken of Mohammed and Jesus to have once existed here too...



Lucky for you, science has already answered that question. Its the rapid firing of your neurons during a near-death, or fatal incident that causes exactly this.

I even found a few links for you if your bible says this is incorrect.

http://www.indiadaily.com/editorial/09-13f-04.asp



Anything else?

[Smokem]

sweet thanks bro, makes me think twice about my beliefs...


NOT! :rofl:

[blue Zed]

Originally posted by Fado


There is a different between &quot;hasn't proven&quot; and &quot;cant be prooved&quot;.

Life on other planets or glaxies can't be proven yet because we dont have the ability to at this time. We are still continuously finding more and more space in the universe, and its only a matter of time before we can start proving or disproving things. You on the other hand sit on a shitpot that can't even be proved or not, because there is nothing to use to find proof:dunno: .


Hmmm that can be considered a leap of faith in science much like god .

[Smokem]

in all seriousness, i would like to say i have something to look forward to in life, just so happens that i use my religion (among other things) as a channel, of course my career, finances, physicality, emotions, social life all complement my spirituality, otherwise i'd be some praying monk in tibet

i'm sure you are the same too Fado, you have dreams, goals and ambitions (or at least i hope you do) and i respect that everyone has perspective, some of us just happen to be naive and faithful enough to believe in shitpots lol

and for the record, im not one to spread the pap smear on how god is great, etc. heaven forbid there are enough people out there that do that, the whole spiritual being aspect in my life was something i fell into myself by my own volition

[Fado]

:thumbsup:

[blue Zed]

So if you don't believe god then that means life started as a rock???

[Smokem]

now for the record...

the earth is over 4.5 billion years old, as proven scientifically, there is irrefutable proof on that

the bible's timing's all off, how could Moses be 900 years old anyways, and if so, why was I not one of his descendants? the seven days (in relative bible terms) talk of the billions of years of creation per Sim Earth

but even still, the fundamentals are all there and so are the ideals on what i believe are a good life to live

[Hakkola]

Originally posted by blue Zed
So if you don't believe god then that means life started as a rock???

If you're christian you could believe the same thing, it says in the bible that god created man from the earth I believe.

", God “formed” man of the dust of the earth (Gen. 2:7). This Hebrew word (yatsar) means “to mold” or “form,” which implies time. Yatsar is used specifically of the work of a potter (cf. Jer. 18:2f.)."

[Isaiah]

Originally posted by lint


How do you pick what parts of the bible to take literally, and others to refute? Not trying to start a flame, but honestly interested in knowing how people chose what to believe.

This question has been in my head for a while and recently came up again as I've started reading &quot;End of Faith&quot; by Sam Harris.

Great point. If the creation part is not to be taken literally, can you not say that Jesus didn't really walk ON water, or perform any of the other miracles attributed to him?

Again, not to be flamed but could Jesus not theoretically have been the Criss Angel or David Blaine of his time? Disciples = assistants?

[Hoey]

The bible is becoming more false everyday simply because of the fact that people continue to interpret it and alter it to fit/suit their specific needs. To say you beleive in God and Evolution is killing the very thing youre fighting for in this thread.

Religion is so false now and sometimes corrupt that following it is in my opinion a false hope.

FACT: did you know that back in the day Catholics made a "rule" that you could "pay" off your sins? You could steal and pay 5 bucks(eg. im unsure of the amount) to have a priest relieve you of youre sins. and If you commited Murder you could pay 20 to have that "repented of you" ---- Now don't get the wrong idea, I'm NOT talking about "crooked priests" This was actually a rule designed by the Catholic church.

FACT: A man named Martin Luther who I partially agree with decided to make his own church (Present day Luthern Church) because he thought that the idea of paying to relieve sins was obsurd... He made a "spin-off" of Catholic because it suited his views more than the original Catholic church.

Also

FACT: A 14 year-old boy named Joseph Smith created the LDS curch (Mormans) because he felt all the current churches of his time were wrong and didnt feel right. So Joseph went into the woods and prayed and TWO figures came to him God and Jesus...This alone contradicts a lot of Christian religions therefore it was another "spin-off"....Many LDS people will say that LDS is the true church because God and Jesus spoke to Joseph and also wrote the book of Morman "through Josephs hand"... But when you look at it, no1 else saw Joseph in there and technically speaking Joseph did actually write the book of morman.

ALL RELIGIONS WERE CREATED BY PEOPLE. PEOPLE LIE.

[ashee]

Originally posted by Q-TIP


what geology proff is that, and what year of geology are you in and what school do you attend. the earth by geologic records is between 4.4 and 4.7 bya.

send pm and we can chat geology if you are a geo major.

I'm not a geo major it's just the science I've chosen to take for my sciences required to graduate, therefore I'm taking non-science major geo classes. I'm not up for debating I really don't care how old the Earth is I was simply stating what my prof told us. All I know for sure is that 4.65 billion years is the answer that will be correct on my test.

[LuxCars]

Originally posted by nonlinear
for thereligious peeps here:

why do you beleive in god?

how is it possible to beleive in both god and science? there is absolutely no scientific evidence for god, and although it is impossible to disprove the existnce of god, there is a ton of evidence against what rel;igions claim and there is not a shred of evidence for god



Originally posted by lint


Science tends to have supporting evidence. Can the same be said of religion?


first off there are many scientist who believe in God. You seem to be very mal-informed and talk about what you hear. Thats a horrible way of thinking, try thinking for yourself and doing your own research instead of just accepeting what your close minded friends accept.

I took a religion course in University and what you stated in your last couple of sentences is incorrect. There is tons and tons of evidence proving the bible's accuracy and events.
Although there is still the obvious argument of what religion is the right religion. That is all up to each individual to accept and follow through with on his own.

Also, no one is capable of sitting there and stating why their religion is better than anyone else's. Religion is a personal belief and is perceived differently by everyone.

[nonlinear]

[nonlinear]

Originally posted by blue Zed
So if you don't believe god then that means life started as a rock???

life didn't start as a rock. look at the periodic table.

[LuxCars]

Originally posted by Hoey
The bible is becoming more false everyday simply because of the fact that people continue to interpret it and alter it to fit/suit their specific needs. To say you beleive in God and Evolution is killing the very thing youre fighting for in this thread.

Religion is so false now and sometimes corrupt that following it is in my opinion a false hope.

FACT: did you know that back in the day Catholics made a &quot;rule&quot; that you could &quot;pay&quot; off your sins? You could steal and pay 5 bucks(eg. im unsure of the amount) to have a priest relieve you of youre sins. and If you commited Murder you could pay 20 to have that &quot;repented of you&quot; ---- Now don't get the wrong idea, I'm NOT talking about &quot;crooked priests&quot; This was actually a rule designed by the Catholic church.


ALL RELIGIONS WERE CREATED BY PEOPLE. PEOPLE LIE.


That is another major problem. Humans. If humans are left to control things it is inevitable that mistakes will be made and certain things may cause the human to become greedy or obstructed.
Speaking as a Christian, we believe that the pope is the closest thing to God, but even the pope can make mistakes.. Its what being a human and living on this earth is all about. Therefore you cannot say that Christianity is wrong and false because the bible is edited. It is not re-written, if it was re-written it would not be the bible but another book.
Your not meant to take the whole bible literally, you are supposed to learn from the actions and events that occur and through the stories that are being told.

[nonlinear]

Originally posted by LuxCars






first off there are many scientist who believe in God. You seem to be very mal-informed and talk about what you hear. Thats a horrible way of thinking, try thinking for yourself and doing your own research instead of just accepeting what your close minded friends accept.

I took a religion course in University and what you stated in your last couple of sentences is incorrect. There is tons and tons of evidence proving the bible's accuracy and events.
Although there is still the obvious argument of what religion is the right religion. That is all up to each individual to accept and follow through with on his own.

Also, no one is capable of sitting there and stating why their religion is better than anyone else's. Religion is a personal belief and is perceived differently by everyone.

[LuxCars]

Originally posted by nonlinear


and as for your opinion, that's fine. you might also have the opinion that you could jump from the calgary tower and magically fly to saftey. but I would be willing to bet my life that you would fall and splatter on the grouind below. I could even calculate how long it would take, exactly where you would land, and also the height and diameter of your splash.

get it?


Listen, you guys seem to think that since Jesus worked miracles in the day to send his message, that he should save you from stupid things like jumping off the calgary tower.

WE STILL HAVE FUCKING BRAINS.

God's power is not meant to be tested, your not supposed to say, "God if you exist than you should save me when i jump off a cliff from the top of the Grand Canyon"

We were given brains, the power to make decisions and choose for ourselves, how we use that power and make our decisions is a gift and has been given to us from God.

If you chose to be stupid and try and jump off a cliff to see if God will save you, then your probably not a true religious person to believe in things the way you do.

[Smokem]

*the bible is becoming more false every day argument*

Hoey is right, humans are inherently corrupt, but where does one stand in light of this? i think religion was an upbringing with intent to create morality in individuals

is someone who is atheist but is a great honest integral person better than the corrupt catholic who pays a priest off for killing someone? you betcha he is, as a catholic i would support the atheist for his MORAL beliefs


*science vs. religion argument*

i believe in science and its role in making this world a more meaningful and understanable place, meaning i inherently have to take in the belief of evolution, but it is a struggle that i must endure with great hippocracy against my catholic beliefs, but suffice to say short of being a skitzo, my "intellectual" self believes in evolution while my "spiritual" self believes in my religion and these are hats i wear given the situation

another example of a hat i wear, tonight i'm wearing my "social" hat, ie. drinking with my buddies


*my two cents*

i go back to my previous statement that i think we are all in the "religion" (i use that term very very loosely because the term itself creates animosity in this world) of LIFE, we are all living, breathing humans trying to create, find, manipulate, substantiate, repudiate and destroy "meaning" in this life through our various actions whatsoever they may be

above all else said, my personal aspirations are from wanting to become a good person and living and loving life

[andres_mt]

Originally posted by MtYurmom


&quot;It's actually 4.65 billion (saying it like you or he knows for fact), according to (saying as if it was his theory) my geology prof.&quot;

Anyone find the oxymoron in that?

Ashee, i know you get bashed alot about other subjects... dont let science/geology be another. &lt;3

lol you talk like an asshole...

[LuxCars]

Originally posted by nonlinear


LOL, thanks for the advice pal, but I am a scientist, and yes I have a PhD and yes I work at the UofC andyes I study evolution.


Ok, im not here to argue or to start pointless fights, but im gonna take a wild guess and say that you PhD is not in religious studies or evolution.
And as a PhD student i would expect your information to be more researched than word of mouth.

But either way, these types of discussions can go on forever, and they have. A few people discussing it on a car club will not make a difference.

[Smokem]

Originally posted by nonlinear


dude, the part i bolded above is basically what i said. our planet had a specific set of initial conditions and that's why we have life as it is today. if those initial conditions were different, life would probablly be different.


1. first and foremost, you're a jerk for not selling me that u-pass last year lol, now i remember why your name sounded familiar, don't matter now, it's all good

2. so what you're saying is that the <1/1,000,000,000,000 process of evolution was really a mathematical coincidence? if you do, i'm fine with that


Originally posted by nonlinear

and as for your opinion, that's fine. you might also have the opinion that you could jump from the calgary tower and magically fly to saftey. but I would be willing to bet my life that you would fall and splatter on the grouind below. I could even calculate how long it would take, exactly where you would land, and also the height and diameter of your splash.

get it?

3. as far as jumping off the calgary tower, i humbly respect the LAWS of physics over my beliefs

4. it wouldn't be an OPINION, it would be a BELIEF if I happened to believe in it.

5. (from #1.) i know you're in biosci and all, but thought you were still a grad student according to what you said earlier?? :dunno: no disrespect whatsoever, but if you were a PhD, what in the world are you doing wasting time on an online bulletin board?

[blue Zed]

Originally posted by nonlinear


life didn't start as a rock. look at the periodic table.

Ok .... then what ...is there an atomic weight for life?

[LuxCars]

Originally posted by Smokem

i know you're in biosci and all, but thought you were still a grad student according to what you said earlier?? :dunno: no disrespect whatsoever, but if you were a PhD, what in the world are you doing wasting time on an online bulletin board?


Point and Case, If you must lie about having a PhD why should we consider your thoughts.

Which goes to prove the statement earlier about Humans who Lie, which adds to the fact that you can not leave humans to control something so powerful, greed and certain actions/events are enough to obstruct an intended goal even if you feel strongly about it.

[lint]

Originally posted by LuxCars
first off there are many scientist who believe in God. You seem to be very mal-informed and talk about what you hear. Thats a horrible way of thinking, try thinking for yourself and doing your own research instead of just accepeting what your close minded friends accept.

You mean to say, try thinking like you. Since you're assuming that because nonlinear and I stated differing opinions from yours that we must be closed minded and have not done our research. You are also assuming that if he do our own research, that we will inevitably come to the same conclusion as you have. Those would both be incorrect assumptions.


Originally posted by LuxCars
I took a religion course in University and what you stated in your last couple of sentences is incorrect. There is tons and tons of evidence proving the bible's accuracy and events.
Although there is still the obvious argument of what religion is the right religion. That is all up to each individual to accept and follow through with on his own.

Care to share this wealth of knowledge that you have gained from the one religion course you took at the university? When you say "There is tons and tons of evidence proving the bible's accuracy", are you referring to tons in a modern world sense, or do you referring to it in a biblical sense?


Originally posted by LuxCars
Also, no one is capable of sitting there and stating why their religion is better than anyone else's. Religion is a personal belief and is perceived differently by everyone.

How do you pick and chose what parts of a religions dogma to follow and which parts to ignore? Are you saying that you are more intelligent or rational than God? Since the bible is his teachings. Are you saying that he is wrong? How can he be wrong when he is all knowing? And how can everyone be right in their religious beliefs? If everyone's religion is the right one, that means that everyone's religion must be the wrong one as well. One man's heaven is another man's hell?

[Supa Dexta]

The older I get the more I hate religion and bible thumpers/extremists from any religions..

[LuxCars]

Originally posted by lint


You mean to say, try thinking like you. Since you're assuming that because nonlinear and I stated differing opinions from yours that we must be closed minded and have not done our research. You are also assuming that if he do our own research, that we will inevitably come to the same conclusion as you have. Those would both be incorrect assumptions.



Care to share this wealth of knowledge that you have gained from the one religion course you took at the university? When you say &quot;There is tons and tons of evidence proving the bible's accuracy&quot;, are you referring to tons in a modern world sense, or do you referring to it in a biblical sense?



How do you pick and chose what parts of a religions dogma to follow and which parts to ignore? Are you saying that you are more intelligent or rational than God? Since the bible is his teachings. Are you saying that he is wrong? How can he be wrong when he is all knowing? And how can everyone be right in their religious beliefs? If everyone's religion is the right one, that means that everyone's religion must be the wrong one as well. One man's heaven is another man's hell?


1st paragraph:

I did not state a conclusion in the quote that you highlighted. In fact all I was saying is that you should do your own research and get your own opinion, how is that in any way suggesting that my opinion is the right opinion.

2nd paragraph:

Yes that would be a modern sense.. Had I stated that it was biblical findings my opinions would be completely biased and you could bash me for it...but i am not saying that it is a biblical finding but a scientific and geological evidence that places the bibles events to the time stated in the bible.

3rd paragraph:

Religion is like a set of attitudes and decisions that you make and chose to follow. your morality and ethics are what make you who you are. No one is to say that you are right as opposed to you are wrong, when judgment day comes we will all know. To chose what is literal and what is intended to be a teaching tool is something i could not tell you about. If i had time i would search it for you and tell you my findings but i am a bit stressed for time. There is a certain way to know, but my guess would be that you could figure it out yourself.

this is just an example but it may be hard to understand, because i probably will not be able to get the message across properly.

lets say your presented with a story and told to analyze it and the question creates a situation for you so that you can analyze it and use your judgment to answer the question.

(ex. Luke is a 14 year old boy who is put in a room with 1900 people, he is given a certain amount of food and quickly overfeeds 1000 people, and leaves 900 other people to starve instead of equally rationalizing the portions. The other 900 people die and Luke realizes his mistake.)

It is a situation that is created to help you understand, analyze and for see the result of quick movement without thinking. The situation is there to help you think before you act. That is the main purpose behind the story, not the fact that he did not feed 900 people and that they died.


i don't know if that really got my message across.

[The Cosworth]

Originally posted by doublepostwhore
Scientific calculation &gt; jesus

:thumbsup: if the earth is 6000 years old.... what were the dinosaurs living on?

[sabad66]

Originally posted by brendankharris


:thumbsup: if the earth is 6000 years old.... what were the dinosaurs living on?
haha best point yet!!

[Fado]

Originally posted by brendankharris


:thumbsup: if the earth is 6000 years old.... what were the dinosaurs living on?

That is one thing I've never truly known.. that being - do christians ignore the fact that there were dinosaurs on this planet?

[01RedDX]

.

[Nav13]

Originally posted by blue Zed
Just the other side of the coin i add two links even tho i don't believe the earth is 6000 yrs old or god but science has a few theory's that wants us to take a leap of faith as well

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=5207159640493874061&amp;q=evolution

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-6814048597272982882&amp;q=evolution

let's have a real debate!with both side

Did anyone else bother to watch these vids, even a little bit? I only watched about 7 mins so far, but man what a load of crap. I mean the guy is trying to say the the theory of evolution is to blame for the wars in the past and present. It is to blame for Stalin and Hitlers mass murders, genocides occuring today and why kids in America go shoot up schools. Hahah the dude forgets to mention that their are more then just simple beliefs that determine weather countries go to war, how evil dictators also have political agendas to fullfil, how children who end up shooting up schools tend to come from a rough background and have a less then favorable family setting. Then he goes on to tell the crowd how he outwitted a young boy into believing into god. Fuck its kinda pissing me off, and this was just the first 7 minutes. Now just for the record, I am not against religion, you can call me a fence sitter right now, I think this universe is far beyond the reach of mankind to comprehend, but bs vids like this that use garbage arguements to get their points accross really get tick me off.

[Fado]

Originally posted by Nav13


Did anyone else bother to watch these vids, even a little bit? I only watched about 7 mins so far, but man what a load of crap. I mean the guy is trying to say the the theory of evolution is to blame for the wars in the past and present. It is to blame for Stalin and Hitlers mass murders, genocides occuring today and why kids in America go shoot up schools. Hahah the dude forgets to mention that their are more then just simple beliefs that determine weather countries go to war, how evil dictators also have political agendas to fullfil, how children who end up shooting up schools tend to come from a rough background and have a less then favorable family setting. Then he goes on to tell the crowd how he outwitted a young boy into believing into god. Fuck its kinda pissing me off, and this was just the first 7 minutes. Now just for the record, I am not against religion, you can call me a fence sitter right now, I think this universe is far beyond the reach of mankind to comprehend, but bs vids like this that use garbage arguements to get their points accross really get tick me off.

I also watched the video. After about five minutes I couldn't take it seriously anymore.

[asp integra]

thats just stupid to believe its only a few thousand years old, it has to be atleast a few hundred million years old cuase we have found dinosaur bones that are that age, use that in ur argument if u want, but the actual age is closer to 4.5 billion

[The Cosworth]

Originally posted by Fado


That is one thing I've never truly known.. that being - do christians ignore the fact that there were dinosaurs on this planet?

when I used to go to church, my pastor told me that 'old artifacts' were burried by the devil to mislead us.


that was it seeing as I wanted to finish my schooling and go work at the royal tyrrell museum.

[MtYurmom]

Originally posted by Q-TIP



hey hey now, I'm in a committed relationship with a nurse, don't be thinking I'm going for other rock nerds here! :angel:


Atleast youre committed. Like most of us here, I can keep the flu longer than I can keep a relationship.

[GTS Jeff]

Originally posted by ashee


I'm not a geo major it's just the science I've chosen to take for my sciences required to graduate, therefore I'm taking non-science major geo classes. I'm not up for debating I really don't care how old the Earth is I was simply stating what my prof told us. All I know for sure is that 4.65 billion years is the answer that will be correct on my test. Too bad quoting profs don't make you less stupid (or obese for that matter, ya fattie.) Instead of saying all that stupid shit about your geol classes, why don't you try explaining how radiometric dating of meteorites(which type specifically) explains the formation of the Earth and the Solar System.

Hoe.

[Gondi Stylez]

Originally posted by GTS Jeff
Too bad quoting profs don't make you less stupid (or obese for that matter, ya fattie.) Instead of saying all that stupid shit about your geol classes, why don't you try explaining how radiometric dating of meteorites(which type specifically) explains the formation of the Earth and the Solar System.

Hoe.

bitter jeff?:rofl: :rofl:

[justincalgary]

Originally posted by GTS Jeff
Too bad quoting profs don't make you less stupid (or obese for that matter, ya fattie.) Instead of saying all that stupid shit about your geol classes, why don't you try explaining how radiometric dating of meteorites(which type specifically) explains the formation of the Earth and the Solar System.

Hoe.

She shoot you down or something. Kind of rude don't ya think, sometimes keeping shit like that to yourself would be a better decision. You have been on here for roughly 5 years I take it, so you must be able to bend the rules of actually coming right out and trashing someone.

Let me guess, you are a roid monkey or absolutely ripped, that way you can get away with calling someone a fatty. Get real, your probably a chubby little twirp that can't get laid in real life or cyber...time to get a life, and keep your rudeness to yourself. Everyone else here is trying to have a serious e-debate while you keep flapping your lips.

[msommers]

Originally posted by Smokem
2. In the span of time the Earth has been around, we humans have occupied but a tiny speck, ie. if the life of the earth was a year, we would have arrived 11:59pm Dec 31


Not necessarily as there are different calendars that still exist, have been destroyed and probably will be created in the future.

[msommers]

Originally posted by Fado
There is a different between &quot;hasn't proven&quot; and &quot;cant be prooved&quot;.

Life on other planets or galaxies can't be proven yet because we dont have the ability to at this time. We are still continuously finding more and more space in the universe, and its only a matter of time before we can start proving or disproving things. You on the other hand sit on a shitpot that can't even be proved or not, because there is nothing to use to find proof:dunno: .

We may never have enough time. According to an Astrophysicist who was interviewed on the Daily Show, our universe is expanding at an accelerated rate. Which in turn means that our universe is going to expand so much, it will dissipate into nothing. Lovely isn't it. Oh, and by the way, did VW02 and yourself get PhDs together?

As a half-assed Christian, and a science geek, it's a real toss up. Growing up, sciences was fun, religion was true. Now, it's the other way around. Learning scientifically, how the human body can adjust to different climates, pressures, oxygen concentrations, pH's, regeneration of cells to name a minuscule amount of varying processes in the body, it is becoming increasingly difficult to deny evolution considering all of those features I've listed can happen in a matter of seconds. And that is just humans. How many different species have we had, will have and presently have on our planet with different processes and abilities?

I have the exact train of thought as Hakkola on this entire matter. Nice work dude:thumbsup:

[GTS Jeff]

Originally posted by justincalgary


She shoot you down or something. Kind of rude don't ya think, sometimes keeping shit like that to yourself would be a better decision. You have been on here for roughly 5 years I take it, so you must be able to bend the rules of actually coming right out and trashing someone.

Let me guess, you are a roid monkey or absolutely ripped, that way you can get away with calling someone a fatty. Get real, your probably a chubby little twirp that can't get laid in real life or cyber...time to get a life, and keep your rudeness to yourself. Everyone else here is trying to have a serious e-debate while you keep flapping your lips. LOL the point was to be rude. In case you haven't noticed, I don't like Ashee, and I'll express that. The reason I am "bending the rules" is because the people that run this site have a rule that Ashee bashing is tolerated. Since you're sort of a n00b, you may not know that there is a lot of Ashee history on Beyond. :devil:

Still though, I guess it's admirable of you to stick up for her. Maybe you're trying to get e-laid, or maybe you're just a great guy...I dunno, but all I can tell you is to choose your fights wisely. Ashee isn't really worth e-fighting on Beyond about, plus I don't really want to e-yell at you cuz you seem like a decent person.

[hjr]

SCIENCE IS A BELIEF. YOU HAVE FAITH THAT SCIENCE IS CORRECT.

There are no more renaissance men, you can have great knowledge, but the fields of knowledge have expanded past what any person can know. Its no longer possible to know a large percentage of knowledge. As such, you have to rely on (aka have faith in) what others have 'proved'. Of course 'proof' is a word thrown around a lot to describe science, but that is not how science works. It involves theories that people take to be true based on evidence that supports the theory, but to say that the theory is 'proved' is a misnomer. People accept it, that is all. A simple look back through the history of science shows that beliefs that we once held not 20 years ago are 'disproved'. So by accepting what it 'proven' you are putting faith in that theory that it is correct.

[Eleanor]

Originally posted by hjr
SCIENCE IS A BELIEF. YOU HAVE FAITH THAT SCIENCE IS CORRECT.

There are no more renaissance men, you can have great knowledge, but the fields of knowledge have expanded past what any person can know. Its no longer possible to know a large percentage of knowledge. As such, you have to rely on (aka have faith in) what others have 'proved'. Of course 'proof' is a word thrown around a lot to describe science, but that is not how science works. It involves theories that people take to be true based on evidence that supports the theory, but to say that the theory is 'proved' is a misnomer. People accept it, that is all. A simple look back through the history of science shows that beliefs that we once held not 20 years ago are 'disproved'. So by accepting what it 'proven' you are putting faith in that theory that it is correct.

Thank you, someone finally pointed that out. Science calls it proof and religion calls it believe. Most people will believe anything just because scientists say it's true, but if the Pope says something people are much more willing to argue it. I am personally leaning more towards science but that is because I find science has presented more convincing arguments for most things in the world including the age of the earth. I personally believe that the earth is 4,523,456,398 years old, but I'm pretty sure that it the calculations you're going to get some error. So ppl bashing Ashee for quoting her prof as saying it's 4.65 billion, I'm pretty sure he realizes it's more likely that it's between four and five billion. When you make a calculation like that, you aren't going to have it pegged that accurately. I personally am an agnostic in that I believe in God, but don't follow any religion in particular. I personally think that following what other people say is God's word is ignorant. I haven't read the Bible or any other religious text and I don't plan to. I want my version of God untainted. I personally think that God did create the universe seeing as how science has yet to give any convincing evidence otherwise. There is no general consensus among the scientific community about the creation of the universe and there are plenty of scientists who are studying this while still believing in God. It's not a black and white issue.

P.S. To everyone who believes that there is no other life (as we define it) in the universe, you are ignorant. Earth is not unique in the universe, there is astronomical odds that "life" exists somewhere else in the universe.

[Hakkola]

Originally posted by brendankharris


when I used to go to church, my pastor told me that 'old artifacts' were burried by the devil to mislead us.


That's fucking rediculous, I don't know enough bad words to explain how I feel about people like this. :thumbsdow


Originally posted by msommers

I have the exact train of thought as Hakkola on this entire matter. Nice work dude:thumbsup:

yeah, it's good to know I'm not alone in my train of thought. :thumbsup:

[89coupe]

Originally posted by hjr
SCIENCE IS A BELIEF. YOU HAVE FAITH THAT SCIENCE IS CORRECT.

There are no more renaissance men, you can have great knowledge, but the fields of knowledge have expanded past what any person can know. Its no longer possible to know a large percentage of knowledge. As such, you have to rely on (aka have faith in) what others have 'proved'. Of course 'proof' is a word thrown around a lot to describe science, but that is not how science works. It involves theories that people take to be true based on evidence that supports the theory, but to say that the theory is 'proved' is a misnomer. People accept it, that is all. A simple look back through the history of science shows that beliefs that we once held not 20 years ago are 'disproved'. So by accepting what it 'proven' you are putting faith in that theory that it is correct.

Really?

So do you just have faith that your car works every day?

Do you have faith that the jet you get in will fly?

Do you have faith that the Advil you take will work on your headache?

How about the fuel you burn, just faith?

Science is real, its applied, it works.

If it was just faith, we wouldn't be living in a modern world.

Get a fucking clue!:confused:

[Milk2%]

Religion was brought apon by a very smart man i believe. I have no belief for any religion cause i think some dude who was smart enough realized civialation would not be sustainable without beliefs, and set values. Also remember people most likely didn't believe the way we do nowadays, everything back in the day was brought together by knowledge from others. They worked hard for civilation to be they way it is. I have no beliefs in god/jesus but i do believe you can be scientifically correct, to date back to the creation of planets/are universe is almost impossible, but to see scientific facts proving and dating other wise i have to agree with them. Like i said i think religion was created to control the humans, i bet it was crazy back in the day, To where no one had values and had no idea of what this world is, it was set there for someone to believe during there life. I still don't understand in believing in a religion, but i know the importance religion has made on this earth. The earth is well over billions and billions of years, what happens if we landed here from another planet, a planet that already has gone through its stages and become nothin since there civilization was ended. Science all the way, itleast facts can be proven. To many bible thumpers nowadays. Wheres all this inner belief, personal belief.

[Darkane]

I kinda of wish I was more versed with the bible, but I am not. Could somebody tell if it says God created the Universe in 7 days or the earth? The reason I bring this up is because of the hubble telescope.

We've used to Hubble to look 100,000,000 years + into the past. We've seen light in other galaxies that old. Who knows where they are at in thier evolutionary cycles in compairison to ours currently. That right there destroys 6000year argument.

Secondly It's funny I might set up another poll specifically for this.. But If you ask people who dont believe in God if they beieve in the devil and you might get some surprising statments. ;) Good thread keep it going.

BTW My astronomy Prof in college said the world was 5billion. THAT's the correct answer lol.

[Hakkola]

Not my own words.


http://www.godandscience.org/apologetics/day-age.html


"Most people read the Genesis creation account without using the scientific method and, therefore, make assumptions that are not supported by the text. For example, the first rule of the scientific method is to establish the initial conditions, or the frame of reference. Genesis 1:2 clearly states that the frame of reference is "the surface of the waters" of the earth. Most people have made the mistake of assuming the frame of reference of Genesis 1 is heaven or somewhere above the earth.
What does the text specifically say? The heavens (universe, solar system, sun, earth, etc.) were already created before the first "day" (Genesis 1:1, ~16 x 109 years ago) (3). In other verses, the Bible says that the earth is controlled by the heavens, refuting geocentrism (4). In Genesis 1:2, God was "hovering or brooding" over the seas of the newly formed earth (4.4-3.8 x 109 years ago, 5). We know from science this is where the first unicellular life forms first appeared (6). The Hebrew word, rachaph, translated as "hovering or brooding" is used only twice in the Old Testament. The second reference is to an eagle caring for its young (7). Therefore, it seems likely that the use of the word rachaph in Genesis 1:2 may be referring to God creating the first life forms in the sea.


Both science and God (8) have told us that at the earth's creation, it was covered with a dense layer of clouds and gases which would have made it dark at its surface. Genesis 1:2 says, "darkness was over the surface of the deep." Next, God removed much of the cloud cover, when He stated, "Let there be light" (Genesis 1:3) This was the light of the Sun (already created) which now "separated light from darkness" (Genesis 1:4). It is very clear from the text that the sun had already been created and the earth was rotating on its axis, since there was light (day) and darkness (night) (Genesis 1:5).

Genesis 1:6-10 describe the initiation of a stable water cycle (9) and formation of continents (10) through tectonic activity (~2.7 x 109 years ago) (11).


Plant life was created on the third day (Genesis 1:11-13, ~1.0 x 109 years ago). These verses are probably the strongest argument for the day-age interpretation. The verse says quite clearly that the earth sprouted (or brought forth) plants and fruit trees bearing fruit. The process described is clearly similar to what we see today. Fruit trees take years to bear fruit, testifying that the third day was at least several years long, and could not possibly be just 24 hours.

Next the translucent cloud layer was removed so that the sun, moon and stars shown through. Notice the unusual construction in Genesis 1:14 which states, "Then God said, 'Let there be lights in the expanse of the heavens to separate the day from the night, and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days and years;'" "Let there be" is an unusual way to describe de novo creation (see also verse 1:3). I believe that at this point God removed the translucent cloud cover from the planet to allow the stars, moon, and Sun to be seen from the surface of the earth (the frame of reference of all Genesis 1). The text then reiterates what God had already done in Genesis 1:1 regarding the creation of the sun, moon, and stars. The time frame describes events over days, seasons, and years - obviously more than 24 hours long.

Birds (12) (~70 x 106 years ago), whales (13) (~50 x 106 years ago) and sea mammals ("swarms of living creatures," where "creatures" is the Hebrew word nephesh, referring to soulish animals - those that can form relationships with humans) were created on the "fifth" day (Genesis 1:20-21), which would correspond to the end of the Cretaceous period/beginning of the Tertiary.
The fifth day describes a period of time longer than 24 hours as swarms of living creatures are multiplying in the sea.

On the sixth day God created the "beasts of the earth" (in Genesis 1:25 the Hebrew word is chayyah, which is best translated as "wild animal," usually referring to carnivorous mammals (14) (the extinct families Miacidae and Viverravidae, appeared ~50 x 106 years ago or current families Canidae, Felidae, Mustelidae, and Viverridae appeared ~30 x 106 years ago ) and the cattle (the Hebrew word is behemah, from which we get the word behemoth, the artiodactyls (large grazing mammals) appeared ~15 x 106 years ago) and the rodents (mammals that "creep on the ground"). Therefore, the wild and domesticated mammals and rodents were created on the sixth day.

The last creation of God was mankind, who was also created at the end of the sixth day. What about humans and three million year old fossil remains of bipedal primates? I believe in a literal Adam and Eve, although I do not believe they lived millions of years ago. The Bible indicates that Adam and Eve had a relationship with God (Genesis 2-3) and the text says that unique among all the animals, humans are endowed with a spirit (Hebrew, ruach, Greek, pneuma), by which they are able to communicate with and love God. Scientists have found no evidence of religious artifacts before about 25,000 to 50,000 years ago (15), which is the point at which I purpose God created Adam and Eve. The Bible states that the covenant and laws of God have been proclaimed to a "thousand generations" (16). A biblical generation, described as being 40 years, would represent at least 40,000 years of human existence. However, since the first dozen or more generations were nearly 1,000 years, this would make humans nearly 50,000 years old, which agrees very well with dates from paleontology and molecular biology (see Descent of Mankind Theory: Disproved by Molecular Biology). Therefore, I believe that bipedal primates that existed before Adam and Eve, were just part of the animal kingdom, and were not endowed with the characteristics that make humans distinct from animals."


http://www.godandscience.org/youngearth/longdays.html
"Specific biblical examples of evidence for long creation days include:

The "Day of the Lord" refers to a seven year period of time.
Genesis 2:4 refers to all 6 days of creation as one day, "This is the account of the heavens and the earth when they were created, in the day that the Lord God made earth and heaven."
The seventh day of Genesis is not closed. In all other days, "there is the evening and the morning, the n day."
In the book of Hebrews, the author tells us to labor to enter into God's seventh day of rest. By any calculation, God's seventh day of rest has been at least 6,000 years long:
For He has thus said somewhere concerning the seventh day, "And God rested on the seventh day from all His works"... Let us therefore be diligent to enter that rest, lest anyone fall through following the same example of disobedience. (Hebrews 4:4-11)
The psalmist (Moses, the author of Genesis) says "For a thousand years in Thy sight are like yesterday when it passes by, or as a watch in the night." (Psalms 90:4).
The apostle Peter tells us with God "A thousand years is as one day" (2 Peter 3:8). "

"Where were you when I laid the foundation of the earth? Tell Me, if you have understanding... Or who enclosed the sea with doors, When, bursting forth, it went out from the womb; when I made a cloud its garment, and thick darkness its swaddling band, (Job 38:4-9)

The Bible not only tells us that the Earth was dark during its infancy, but it tells us why the Earth was dark - it was covered with thick clouds - something that science confirms."

[GTS Jeff]

Originally posted by hjr
SCIENCE IS A BELIEF. YOU HAVE FAITH THAT SCIENCE IS CORRECT.

There are no more renaissance men, you can have great knowledge, but the fields of knowledge have expanded past what any person can know. Its no longer possible to know a large percentage of knowledge. As such, you have to rely on (aka have faith in) what others have 'proved'. Of course 'proof' is a word thrown around a lot to describe science, but that is not how science works. It involves theories that people take to be true based on evidence that supports the theory, but to say that the theory is 'proved' is a misnomer. People accept it, that is all. A simple look back through the history of science shows that beliefs that we once held not 20 years ago are 'disproved'. So by accepting what it 'proven' you are putting faith in that theory that it is correct. Faith implies acceptance of a theory without supporting evidence. Science is the exact opposite of faith, because it demands supporting evidence. I win, you lose!

[justincalgary]

Originally posted by GTS Jeff
LOL the point was to be rude. In case you haven't noticed, I don't like Ashee, and I'll express that. The reason I am &quot;bending the rules&quot; is because the people that run this site have a rule that Ashee bashing is tolerated. Since you're sort of a n00b, you may not know that there is a lot of Ashee history on Beyond. :devil:

Still though, I guess it's admirable of you to stick up for her. Maybe you're trying to get e-laid, or maybe you're just a great guy...I dunno, but all I can tell you is to choose your fights wisely. Ashee isn't really worth e-fighting on Beyond about, plus I don't really want to e-yell at you cuz you seem like a decent person.

You can dislike anyone you feel like, but what I have seen is her never reply back to you with threats or meaness. I don't know you, but I am guessing you are a tiny little person, and get off on the fact that you can E-Thug on a girl....way to go tough guy. For as mean as you are to her, I sure as hell hope she gave you herpes.

Ciao:rolleyes:

[DJ Lazy]

^^ Just drop it already man... It has nothing to do with this thread..

[hjr]

Originally posted by GTS Jeff
Faith implies acceptance of a theory without supporting evidence. Science is the exact opposite of faith, because it demands supporting evidence. I win, you lose! the person who demanded the evidence, yes, but 99% dont. they accept what science says. they have a faith that it is correct and that someone has provided said evidence.

in reality, im not religious, i dont believe in 6000yo earth, but i do want to emphasize that science is a 'religion' in its own way. not the actual process of research and questioning and seeking evidence or however you want to characterize science, but the social/societal implications of science.


Originally posted by 89coupe


Really?

So do you just have faith that your car works every day?

Do you have faith that the jet you get in will fly?

Do you have faith that the Advil you take will work on your headache?

How about the fuel you burn, just faith?

Science is real, its applied, it works.

If it was just faith, we wouldn't be living in a modern world.

Get a fucking clue!:confused:

to answer your questions, yes, i do have faith in the science's you listed. For example, I dont know all that much about how advil works, but i have 'faith' that it will alleviate my headache. The science of it works, that much has been shown to be true, but the way people accept science is what im talking about.

also, this is a pretty civil discussion, no need to be angry?

[GTS Jeff]

Originally posted by justincalgary


You can dislike anyone you feel like, but what I have seen is her never reply back to you with threats or meaness.

Search harder.



Originally posted by hjr
the person who demanded the evidence, yes, but 99% dont. they accept what science says. they have a faith that it is correct and that someone has provided said evidence.

in reality, im not religious, i dont believe in 6000yo earth, but i do want to emphasize that science is a 'religion' in its own way. not the actual process of research and questioning and seeking evidence or however you want to characterize science, but the social/societal implications of science.

That's a very good point, but that wasn't the tune you were singing at first.

[fiveabi]

i'm a geophysicst and, it is certain that the earth is ~4.5-4.65 billion years old.

radiometric dating.
carbon dating.
seismology.
current processes are slow enought to easily say that it took blank long for the earth to complete.
fossil records (un debatable) (god is not playing a game, god would'nt "plant" them.
paleomagnetics prove that the earth grows through polar cycles every few thousand years, and there have b'n plenty of them so its definatly >6000.

the list could continue.