Two Girls hit on 17th

[adamc]

happened today at around 6:30pm, two 14 year old girls were stepping out behind a parked van infront of Melrose when they were hit by a westbound car.

Apparently one was sent some 40 feet and was in critical condition, while the other was stable.

This is all second hand info from a friend of mine that works at Melrose, and was first on the scene (she said there were about 100 lookyloos, and 3 people helping the injured girls, which is absolutely sickening imho, get involved people, what if they were YOUR daughters?)

17th was closed for a long time between 6 and 7 street while the police conducted their investigation..

I also noticed 4 women getting j-walking tickets, walking through the fucking crime scene, and almost doing what the young girls that got hit did. Use your head people, use the intersections.

[adamc]

Date: Thu Mar 15 22:07:05 2007
Subject: Two pedestrians seriously injured in collision
From: Duty Inspector

-----BEGIN MD5 -----------------------------------

-----------------------------------------------------------------
CITYBEAT - CITY OF CALGARY PRESS RELEASE
-----------------------------------------------------------------

At about 6:50 PM on Thursday the 15 March 2007, police, fire
and EMS responded to the “T” intersection at 17 Ave and
Collegiate Lane SW where two pedestrians had been struck by a
vehicle.

The pedestrians, both young ladies in their mid-teens were
walking northbound across 17 Ave SW from the west corner of
Collegiate Lane. Several vehicles had stopped but as they
neared the north side of the avenue they were struck by a
white Honda that was being driven westbound on 17 Ave SW.

Both pedestrians were treated and transported by EMS to
hospital in life threatening condition. One remains in life
threatening condition and the other has been upgraded to non
-life-threatening. The driver of the car, a young adult male
and only occupant was not injured.

The Traffic Section is investigating this collision.





-30-

Public Email Contact:

[email protected]

-----END MD5 4543938ec71b7e76748bc814f7184b08-----

[googe]

i dont even get how you do that. tragic yes, but if youre going to jump out behind a car to jaywalk somewhere as busy as 17th, look first? the sad part is people do that ALL the time there.

[Aleks]

Originally posted by googe
i dont even get how you do that. tragic yes, but if youre going to jump out behind a car to jaywalk somewhere as busy as 17th, look first? the sad part is people do that ALL the time there.

News said they were in a marked crosswalk.

[googe]

ah, statement retracted then. looks like they were almost across based on the other reports, sounds similar to the story about that girl in her bmw.

[suen17]

Originally posted by Aleks


News said they were in a marked crosswalk.

there is no marked crosswalk in front of melrose. There are even small punyass little chained posts that are supposed to block the street corner to prevent jaywalkers. :guns:

[Kona9]

Jaywalking is obviously not the right thing to do, I just think that the amount of people that do it due to the alcohol consumption (no excuse) or the wanting to "just quickly run across to get the party on" happens way too often there.

Melrose is a great place. I just wish they would move that damn Melrose van they park in front all the time. I understand they use it for advertising (not like the van will save the day on advertising for that place) and also have a TV in the side of it for Patio people, but removing it definately makes things easier to see for the people that will never use the crosswalk. Afterall, after a few drinks it's common knowledge people have the ability to not make proper decisions.

Best wishes to the girls!

[Aleks]

Originally posted by suen17


there is no marked crosswalk in front of melrose. There are even small punyass little chained posts that are supposed to block the street corner to prevent jaywalkers. :guns:

Report on Global this AM said they were in a marked crosswalk and that a bunch of cars already stopped. The winshield of the car looked totally destroyed too.

[jdmakkord]

It was an uncontrolled intersection, which in turn is a crosswalk at the corners. At least thats what the cops said on tv last night.

[R-Audi]

I always wondered about the Melrose/Starbucks corner.... guess thats my answer!
Hope the girls are ok...

[l8braker]

There is no marked crosswalk at that t-intersection infront of Melrose.... They did say that it is a legal crosswalk, but come on.... They definitely need more marked crosswalks, signs, and hand out hefty fines for j-walking down here.... i've seen too many close calls in the past year. There is just too much going on around 17th for anyone to pay attention.

Hopefully the girls fully recover

[Crymson]

If it was a marked crosswalk, it's such a shame.

Of course the driver is 100% at fault for this, and should be strung up. I remember a case in Regina about 8 years ago, when the same thing happened. Except with a mother and her baby in stroller.

However, this accident could have been prevented by either the driver or the pedestrians paying a bit more attention. I'm in no way exhonerating the driver, but anything involving quickly moving 3000 lb objects, requires a bit of attention on everyones part to avoid this kind of shit. A crosswalk isn't a bullet proof vest against cars, you still gotta look out, especially in presense of retarded drivers. Everyone knows that 17th can be a "distracting" road to drive down.

[joyridder]

That is sad to hear! sometimes risks like that are not worth it spec on 17th when traffic/pedestrians are unpredictable.

[sputnik]

The news was reporting this morning that alcohol was involved and there were charges pending for the driver.

[sputnik]

Originally posted by joyridder
spec on 17th when traffic/pedestrians are unpredictable.

It's even worse in Chinatown... but instead of 14 year olds you have 94 year olds jumping in front of traffic.

[B20EF]

Originally posted by R-Audi
I always wondered about the Melrose/Starbucks corner.... guess thats my answer!
Hope the girls are ok...

Theres no way there's a crosswalk at that corner going across 17th. There's a set of lights 3 stores down to the west and another set of lights 10 stores up to the east, unless the girls crossed at the lights, I can't see how it's the drivers fault.

[HuMz]

Originally posted by B20EF


Theres no way there's a crosswalk at that corner going across 17th. There's a set of lights 3 stores down to the west and another set of lights 10 stores up to the east, unless the girls crossed at the lights, I can't see how it's the drivers fault.

Alchohol, hes screwed no matter where they crossed.

[Mr_ET]

First off I hope they both make a full and speedy recovery. Now that that's out of the way let's talk about pedestrians crossing the street in Calgary.


I understand that the pedestrian has the right of way in a marked crosswalk. I can understand that it might be easier to cross outside of that specified zone if it is very far away and a major detour.

Here's what I don't and will never understand about pedestrians here: Regardless of where you cross why the expletive do you think that because you put a foot on the street cars will stop instantly? The average person weighs what 160-170 pounds? What does the average car weigh? Who do you think wins this battle.

In every other province or country i've been in it has always worked this way:

Look both ways, if no cars cross street. If cars are coming or not fully stopped stay the expletive off the road because you never know if the person coming is drunk/not attentive/hasn't seen you.

This city gets bigger every minute and a lot of people are not native Calgarians and the whole stopping for pedestrians is very weird for outsiders when we have to do it the first few times.

/rant

[Kona9]

In the SUN this morning it is quoted by a witness that saw the whole thing happen. (actually stopped to allow the girls to cross)The girls were crossing in an unmarked crosswalk between Western Canada High and Starbucks, northbound. People had already stopped to let the girls cross.

Very similar situation as the 18 year old BMW mother daughter pedestrian incident. The late teens male driver continued through after all others had stopped. When the girls noticed the traffic stopped they broke out into a run and were looking the opposite direction when the white honda hit them.

[89coupe]

I'm willing to bet the kid in the Honda was either driving too fast, daydreaming, talking on his cell phone, or all of the above.:rolleyes:

[SiR_lyfe]

yeh its a busy place and ppl think they are all gangsters and floor it on that strip :thumbsdow

[doublepostwhore]

Not to be brash, but look before you cross, drunk or not car > person in ANY case.

I dont care if its a tercel or a hummer, a car will dominate you.

If we lived in europe they would SPIT on the pedestrians here. Cars have the right of way, thats how it should be.

If you get laxidasical about crossing the street expect to get smacked. I have little sympathy for people whom cross the road without fucking looking.

[SiR_lyfe]

Originally posted by doublepostwhore
Not to be brash, but look before you cross, drunk or not car > person in ANY case.

I dont care if its a tercel or a hummer, a car will dominate you.

If we lived in europe they would SPIT on the pedestrians here. Cars have the right of way, thats how it should be.

If you get laxidasical about crossing the street expect to get smacked. I have little sympathy for people whom cross the road without fucking looking.

no doubt! they cant just pop out of nowhere. and start running. only if you have a spidysense you will see that shit

[rc2002]

Originally posted by doublepostwhore
Not to be brash, but look before you cross, drunk or not car > person in ANY case.

If we lived in europe they would SPIT on the pedestrians here. Cars have the right of way, thats how it should be.


:werd: :werd: :werd:

Pedestrians should be more careful. I always look to make sure there the cars in all (not just some) of the lanes are stopped before crossing. Plus I'll only cross at interserctions with traffic lights.

It's just like your parents taught you when you were 5 years old. Look both ways before crossing the street.

[core_upt]

Yes pedestrians should be more careful - they really are taking their lives into risk everytime they cross the road.

BUT - as a driver, if you approach an intersection, mark x-walk or not, and all the other cars are stopped, you had better be stopping too.

FURTHER to this - If I stop for someone to cross, I will remian stopped until they have fully crossed the street, from curb to curb, not just when they have passed by my car - I wish more people would do this, it just adds a little bit of protection to the pedestrian and alerts drivers that there may be someone crossing if I am stopped.

J-Walkers - I have actually done this - people running thtough breaks of traffic - if I am at a speed where I WILL hit you if i don't stop because you are jaywalking, I simply depress the clutch, rev the engine and lay on the horn for 4-5 seconds. Legs move a lot quicker and being honked at for 5 seconds in the middle of downtown rush hour should make you at least think about what you did.

[Isaiah]

Originally posted by sputnik


It's even worse in Chinatown... but instead of 14 year olds you have 94 year olds jumping in front of traffic.

Not sure if that was supposed to be funny but made me :rofl: anyway.

[jay42w8]

it was a t intersection, in this case the driver is definitely at fault since it is an unmarked intersection where a pedestrian has the right of way

however, not knowing the neighborhood, one would not realize its an intersection...that being said...the idiot fucking driver wasn't paying enough attention to realize the cars in other lanes have stopped...they have said in the news he was drunk....I personally always peer over/past a stopped car to make sure there isnt some dumb fuk continuing to fly thru the lane everytime I cross a street:guns:

[DoubleLP]

Pedestrian Right of Way (http://www.infratrans.gov.ab.ca/INFTRA_Content/docType45/Production/basicdrivershandbook2006.pdf)


Go down to page 122.

"If a pedestrian has entered a marked or unmarked crosswalk, a motorist must stop their vehicle before entering the crosswalk and yield the right-of-way to the pedestrian. When stopping for a pedestrian, remember to stop far enough back so that traffic in another lane is able to see the pedestrian in the crosswalk and have time to stop."

"Never pass another vehicle when you are approaching a crosswalk. There is always a chance that the other vehicle is slowing down or stopping for a pedestrian."

"Remember that not all crosswalks are marked, but nearly all intersections have crosswalks."

These are taken directly from the Alberta Driver's Handbook. I sure hope that those girls do recover.

[l8braker]

Nancy Hixt (:hitit: x2) was down on 17th today filming a segment for the news tonight. Hopefully it draws attention to all the morons who j-walk down there asking to get hit. CPS needs to step things up and ticket people. It's just dangerous.

Also, while they were filming a white early 90's blazer almost smoked another car on 17th & 9A st. Hopefully that makes it to air :thumbsup:

[SilverGS]

Tough Situation

Jaywalking or not. Once a pedestrian is on the road vehicles are supposed to give them the right of way. yah, if they are jaywalking the people in the vehicle should curse at them, flip'em off, whatever, but they don't deserve to be hit by a car for jaywalking.

If other cars had alreadyy stopped either this guy was drunk like they are saying or too impatient to bother looking for obstacles on the road, whether they should be there or not.

Agreed though about Europe. Asia is the same way. Cars have the right of way. Pedestrians are responsble for themselves if they step out onto the road.

My thoughts are to a full recovery of those two girls :(

[CalgarySupra]

trashy area happens all the time, alcohol, bars, and more bars.


thats why i prefer 17 ave FOREST LAWN over 17 ave "Beltline" or whaver they call it.

one forest lawn, 17 ave, they people they have more class to actuallly use the cross walks, u do see some people jaywalking and majority of people use the cross walks.

[l8braker]

Originally posted by CalgarySupra
trashy area happens all the time, alcohol, bars, and more bars.


thats why i prefer 17 ave FOREST LAWN over 17 ave "Beltline" or whaver they call it.

one forest lawn, 17 ave, they people they have more class to actuallly use the cross walks, u do see some people jaywalking and majority of people use the cross walks.

Oh okay.

Stay in the ghetto.

[Si_FlyGuy]

Originally posted by CalgarySupra

one forest lawn, 17 ave, they people they have more class to actuallly use the cross walks, u do see some people jaywalking and majority of people use the cross walks.

They only use the crosswalks over there to sneak a peak at the product on the corners.

[l8braker]

Originally posted by Si_FlyGuy


They only use the crosswalks over there to sneak a peak at the product on the corners.

Or when they have something heavy they need to pawn.

[jay42w8]

Originally posted by l8braker
Nancy Hixt (:hitit: x2) was down on 17th today filming a segment for the news tonight.

damn Nancy Hixt!:drool: ...I missed it...could've went down and stared at her hubba hubbaa :drool: :clap:

[EK 2.0]

Originally posted by adamc
she said there were about 100 lookyloos, and 3 people helping the injured girls, which is absolutely sickening imho, get involved people, what if they were YOUR daughters?


My daughters or not...I am an older brother and for sure I would love for people to ever help them out in any situation that they may require it in. And for sure I would help...again older brother syndrome.

But for a lot of peeps its the liability, they simply don't want to have to deal with any repercussions that may arise from anything bad coming out of the situation. Also...there is a HUGE lack of any sort of formal CPR, and First Aid training in today's day and age. Which in of itself is very sad...but meh...what are you gonna do??

[suen17]

So now i'm curious. Even if that's a T-intersection, are parts of that particular intersection even considered to be a crosswalk?

For anyone that knows that intersection, there are little green posts linked with chains that i think are supposed to mark "no jaywalking." Subtle, but classy. However, legally, is there actually a crosswalk there, seeing how there are no street corners on the other side of the street. (refer to shit diagram... the places marked red, is that actually a crosswalk?)

http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a359/suen17/untitled-2.jpg

I'm curious because I've crossed at that intersection too and almost got hit... Never again... :guns:

[adamc]

the girls got hit where the right red circle was, almost across the street.

still a lot of glass and blood down there this morning when I walked by.


nobody have any updates on the condition of these two girls? I didn't watch the news tonight.

[_wrx_]

i was there when it happend. so scarey. best wishes to the girls

[Mr_ET]

Originally posted by DoubleLP
Pedestrian Right of Way (http://www.infratrans.gov.ab.ca/INFTRA_Content/docType45/Production/basicdrivershandbook2006.pdf)


Go down to page 122.

"If a pedestrian has entered a marked or unmarked crosswalk, a motorist must stop their vehicle before entering the crosswalk and yield the right-of-way to the pedestrian. When stopping for a pedestrian, remember to stop far enough back so that traffic in another lane is able to see the pedestrian in the crosswalk and have time to stop."

"Never pass another vehicle when you are approaching a crosswalk. There is always a chance that the other vehicle is slowing down or stopping for a pedestrian."

"Remember that not all crosswalks are marked, but nearly all intersections have crosswalks."

These are taken directly from the Alberta Driver's Handbook. I sure hope that those girls do recover.

I think we can all agree that this is absolutely correct and should be respected. Now we should just all agree that it's the pedestrians duty to make sure no cars are unstopped or would hit them before they crossed.

Once Albertans understand this there will be much less accidents on our roads. There is a good reason why in the rest of the world cars have "priority"

[Accord_tunerx]

i think people in general on 17th ave should take extra care while driving down there..it a busy street...

[SiG Baby]

This is such a sad story...one moment that will change the lives of all involved forever. I am praying for a fast recovery for the girls.

This is so very unfortunate. It seems there has been alot of pedestrian accidents over the last year or so...people need to wake up and pay attention when they are dirving. I have seen pedestrians run acroos 17th on many occasions, you got to expect it and look out for it. If these girls were almost across the road there is NO reason the driver shouldn't have seen them.

But I guess he/she is going to have to live with that for the rest of there lives anyway.

[Kona9]

Originally posted by CalgarySupra
trashy area happens all the time, alcohol, bars, and more bars.


thats why i prefer 17 ave FOREST LAWN over 17 ave "Beltline" or whaver they call it.

one forest lawn, 17 ave, they people they have more class to actuallly use the cross walks, u do see some people jaywalking and majority of people use the cross walks.

The ONLY similiarities in 17ave uptown, and 17 ave Forest Lawn is the damn digits. So you don't like bars, big whoop. The two roads are completely different.

17 ave Uptown is 95% of the time a 3 3/4 lane set up. Or a very tight 4 lane set up. If you have time to bust out of the ghetto and are able to drive 17th ave Uptown, you can commonly see broken or clipped side view mirrors on the northern most westbound lanes due to the tight fit, and if your lucky you might even see someones door crumpled length wise because people don't pay attention then either. 17 ave is a busy road for other reasons than forest lawn 17th by far.

It has nothing to do with class of people choosing to use crosswalks here more so than there. 17 ave Forest Lawn has traffic fed by the damn Deerfoot, and a highly populated area for a general lower class of lifestyle than that of 17th ave uptown.
(disclaimer: not to be taken as a lower life crap area in comparison.)

17 ave uptown has only crosswalks at intersections, where as 17 ave forest lawn has MARKED AND LIT crosswalks not attached to intersections as well as the intersections themselves.

HUGE diffference my friend.

edit- even though this was at 7:00pm in the evening, one should relaize there is a damn school there. I know it is not a play ground zone, but really, schools = kids = pay more attention. Shit Pay more attention for the simple fact that 17 ave uptown is ALWAYS ALWAYS busy, and there are bars there. Bars=drunks= poor decisions. You have to watch out for this type of crap.
Plain and simple it's a high risk area for collisions of all sorts.

Waaaay back in the day when I took driver training, (15 years ago ..ouch) they taught me how to calculate risk while driving. For every person, car, weather condition, etc...you can add 10% risk to having a collision or be involved in some sort of vehicular incident.

Apply that to 17 ave and it can be very risky.

[googe]

Originally posted by CalgarySupra
trashy area happens all the time, alcohol, bars, and more bars.


thats why i prefer 17 ave FOREST LAWN over 17 ave "Beltline" or whaver they call it.

one forest lawn, 17 ave, they people they have more class to actuallly use the cross walks, u do see some people jaywalking and majority of people use the cross walks.

hahahah, dude enough already

why do you make it your mission to claim that ghetto forest lawn is the holy grail of calgary? no one would live there over 17th ave, face it. nothing wrong with a little neighborhood pride but this is getting ridiculous :nut:

theres no shortage of shopping carts all over the roads or ripped couches on peoples front lawn, but yeah youre right, way more class up there :rolleyes:

put away the anti-alcohol preaching too, people like drinking, welcome to canada :)

[Kona9]

Originally posted by googe


hahahah, dude enough already

why do you make it your mission to claim that ghetto forest lawn is the holy grail of calgary? no one would live there over 17th ave, face it. nothing wrong with a little neighborhood pride but this is getting ridiculous :nut:

theres no shortage of shopping carts all over the roads or ripped couches on peoples front lawn, but yeah youre right, way more class up there :rolleyes:

put away the anti-alcohol preaching too, people like drinking, welcome to canada :)

Decent house and all, but does not match the description whatsoever in my opinion. Sounds like he is describing 17 ave uptown.



http://forums.beyond.ca/st/164958/fs-detached-mint-home-nice-upscale-area-329000/

all apologies on the hijack.


Anyword on the girls condition?

[googe]

^agreed, and the fact that the same property would fetch well over .5 mil on the REAL 17th ave sort of says something ;)

haha @ "upscale 17 ave shopping"

[403Gemini]

Originally posted by suen17
So now i'm curious. Even if that's a T-intersection, are parts of that particular intersection even considered to be a crosswalk?

For anyone that knows that intersection, there are little green posts linked with chains that i think are supposed to mark "no jaywalking." Subtle, but classy. However, legally, is there actually a crosswalk there, seeing how there are no street corners on the other side of the street. (refer to shit diagram... the places marked red, is that actually a crosswalk?)

http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a359/suen17/untitled-2.jpg

I'm curious because I've crossed at that intersection too and almost got hit... Never again... :guns:

Yes, it is.

Its because there are corners on the opposite sides. Its considered an uncontrolled intersection, but last night on global at 6 the girl interviewing a cop about it said "If I was with you in your uniform (the BRIGHT red jacket one), would you cross this intersection with me?" and he laughed and said not on his life.

Honestly they need to change the laws. IMO vehicles should have the right of way on roads EXCEPT on marked intersections or marked crosswalks. People have a problem w/ this, create more marked crosswalks. i honeslty do not have a problem with slowing down when i see a "pedestrian crosswalk ahead" sign. but unmarked/uncontrolled intersections when people are stepping out inbetween cars like this its just getting to risky.

[adamc]

I think Canadian cities should become more european.
Turn some more streets into pedestrian only zones, or not allow traffic during certain times of the day/week maybe.



Block 17th ave from 4-10th off to traffic except cabs from 7pm friday to 7am sunday?

I duno, just a thought. Wouldn't allow all those fools to stunt up and down in those blocks..

[suen17]

^^ that's an even worse idea. All that traffic will be diverted onto the smaller streets which are lined with millions of cars. Any pedestrian popping out from between cars will more likely be hit (since we're on the topic of pedestrians)

Plus, the small 2 laned roads can barely handle two cars running side by side, and seeing how 17th was already narrow enough, I'd rather not take my chances and knock off some more mirrors or scratch my car.

I'd rather see more cops down there. Drug activity in that park, panhandlers everywhere, leaving trash, and after game nights there's puke everywhere. On top of that crack-down on the jaywalkers and also the pedestrians (students mainly) that cross on the flashing hand signal :guns:

[Kona9]

I'm at the yardhose as we speak. You would not believe the amount of people that continually try to J-walk 17th in the same spot that the girls got hit. An elder lady with a cane directed by a younger lady jay walked no where near the corner crossing. Peiople just won't learn.

[CalgarySupra]

Yes there are some differences, but i am just trying show the fact forest lawn is not the "ghetto" and its not a very nice thing to say they are lower class.


regarding the drinking comment, i am canadian, full canadian, and i can trace my anestors in this county over 2 centuries ago. but my point is when people are DRUNK more bad thigns happens, bad behavoir, this is a KNOWN fact.

17 ave sw is full of homeless, and theres drug addicats everywhere, i ALWAYS see people arrested police finding drugs on them, and theres always druggies behind the mcdonalds, that amount doesnt even compare to forest lawn

no its not my mission to make forest lawn sound its the best place in calgary ( i dont even live in forest lawn, but its just not fair or just to put a community down and consider them lower class)


yes 17 ave se is wider road, no one parks in the outer lanes, and according to a traffic engineer i know at the city, 17 ave se is mostly fed from blackfoot, and the downtown core.


any parent would prefer to rasie the kid on 17 ave se then 17sw, yes i 17ave sw has some diseres,

tell me one thing that 17 ave se doesnt have but 17ave sw has besides the starbucks, the illegal bathhouses where men have sex with men that are always radied by the police?


A very good friend of mine, drives a brand new farrari, and few other cars, developes homes around the city, including pump hill, is investing almost all of his capital in that forest lawn area, its the only area what now wheres he feels theres higher margin to grow. (and he owns a home in albert park that his sister lives in)


and do some of you not considering 17 ave a dieserable shopping area?
http://www.internationalavenue.ca/direct.html

look at all teh business just in the area, hundreds of them.

[Canmorite]

To me, that isn't a crosswalk. And if it is, its probably the worst one I've ever seen. Walk 20 meters down and use a proper crosswalk with lights.

Sad nonetheless.

[l8braker]

Originally posted by CalgarySupra
Yes there are some differences, but i am just trying show the fact forest lawn is not the "ghetto" and its not a very nice thing to say they are lower class.


regarding the drinking comment, i am canadian, full canadian, and i can trace my anestors in this county over 2 centuries ago. but my point is when people are DRUNK more bad thigns happens, bad behavoir, this is a KNOWN fact.

17 ave sw is full of homeless, and theres drug addicats everywhere, i ALWAYS see people arrested police finding drugs on them, and theres always druggies behind the mcdonalds, that amount doesnt even compare to forest lawn

no its not my mission to make forest lawn sound its the best place in calgary ( i dont even live in forest lawn, but its just not fair or just to put a community down and consider them lower class)


yes 17 ave se is wider road, no one parks in the outer lanes, and according to a traffic engineer i know at the city, 17 ave se is mostly fed from blackfoot, and the downtown core.


any parent would prefer to rasie the kid on 17 ave se then 17sw, yes i 17ave sw has some diseres,

tell me one thing that 17 ave se doesnt have but 17ave sw has besides the starbucks, the illegal bathhouses where men have sex with men that are always radied by the police?


A very good friend of mine, drives a brand new farrari, and few other cars, developes homes around the city, including pump hill, is investing almost all of his capital in that forest lawn area, its the only area what now wheres he feels theres higher margin to grow. (and he owns a home in albert park that his sister lives in)

Insightful post, thank you.

[TurboMedic]

Originally posted by 403Gemini


Yes, it is.

Its because there are corners on the opposite sides. Its considered an uncontrolled intersection, but last night on global at 6 the girl interviewing a cop about it said "If I was with you in your uniform (the BRIGHT red jacket one), would you cross this intersection with me?" and he laughed and said not on his life.

Honestly they need to change the laws. IMO vehicles should have the right of way on roads EXCEPT on marked intersections or marked crosswalks. People have a problem w/ this, create more marked crosswalks. i honeslty do not have a problem with slowing down when i see a "pedestrian crosswalk ahead" sign. but unmarked/uncontrolled intersections when people are stepping out inbetween cars like this its just getting to risky.

I would almost disagree with this being a crosswalk.....I walk across lots at work, but there are the chain fences on either side of the road directly parallel with 17th ave. Also, the "ramp" of the sidewalk to enter the street enters 5A and 6A sts, not onto 17th ave, so I believe there is a crosswalk on the streets, not the ave! The same goes for the North side of the 17th ave, the fences are there at the same place to prevent crossers from entering 17th (well not to prevent but to make people realize thats not where to cross. ).

[soupey]

if i remember correct (i used to go to western canada highschool), not many ppl ever used that corner to cross, but it kinda sucks cuz tehres quite a bit of distance between that T intersection adn the neighboring lights, its easier to j-walk rather than going in a circle to get back to the school...

that said, there werent too many ppl who ever j-walked there though, it was way too busy and it looks NOTHING like a crossable intersection...that and 17th is a relatively busy road, ppl dont stop for pedestrians unless its a marked one....that corner definitely isnt marked at all.

i'd say its the pedestrians fault for picking a shitty corner to cross on, that and probably not watching all lanes of the road while crossing (ppl cut in the parking lane a LOT on 17th, just have to be careful about that).

although im sure its not going to be their fault. it was definitely a stupid move to think they could cross safely there.