90 degrees or all the way down

[sl888]

So I was at the gym today doing my usual chest workout and this one guy said that I shouldn't go all the way down. Instead I should just go to 90 degrees. He said that if I go all the way down I would be doing mostly shoulders and 90 degrees would concentrate mostly on the chest. From what I've been told if you go all the way down you get that stretch of the chest which would be better and that 90 degrees is "cheating" or "not proper". So just wondering what's the "right" way and everyone's preferred way.

[TegLover]

whats the point?

[tsuga]

Original Post Removed. (Please read the Forum Rules and Terms of Use (http://forums.beyond.ca/articles.php?action=data&item=1) before posting again, or risk getting banned).

[GQBalla]

yeah i have heard mixed responses too -


people say 90 degrees for what you just post and to go down all the way because it stretchs

[three.eighteen.]

i've tried to go all the way down, i just don't really bend that way, but i do strive to get the stretch :dunno:

[buh_buh]

bar has to touch the chest

[nhlfan]

touch your chest. squat below 90 as well.

[GTS Jeff]

Originally posted by buh_buh
bar has to touch the chest The bar only touches your chest cuz you arch your back so much. :D

But no, don't go more than 90 degrees, here's why:

1. A few studies have shown that your muscle exhibit just as much growth and strength from partial range of motion as full range of motion. So your chest becomes just as strong from 90 degree pushes as ones down to the chest.
2. You load the rotator cuff muscles in your shoulders when you go down lots. The dude was partially right in saying going past 90 degrees works your shoulders, cuz it works the rotator cuffs (not in a good way) but it doesn't do much for the deltoids. This is how rotator cuff injuries occur on the bench press.
3. There's a bunch of tissue encasing the shoulder joint that is stretched when you go past 90 degrees. If it's stretched too much, it gets loose, then your arm is basically loose in its socket, and that ain't cool at all. Here's a link:

http://www.chekinstitute.com/articles.cfm?select=26

Actually, it was pretty funny, one day at the gym this dude wanted me to spot him. He was pushing 25lb plates on the incline, right down to the chest, and he could push them up quite easily and fast, and did about 10 reps, and I was wondering why he even asked for a spot...then suddenly he was stuck at the bottom and you could tell his rotator cuffs gave out. After he was done his set, he was rubbing his shoulders. :rofl: :rofl:

[pinoyhero]

^Agree to a large extent, keep the arch in your back top a minimum. Keep in mind also that touching the chest is often accompanied by bouncing off the chest which is not only dangerous but potentially deforming.

[sl888]

Originally posted by GTS Jeff
The bar only touches your chest cuz you arch your back so much. :D

But no, don't go more than 90 degrees, here's why:

1. A few studies have shown that your muscle exhibit just as much growth and strength from partial range of motion as full range of motion. So your chest becomes just as strong from 90 degree pushes as ones down to the chest.
2. You load the rotator cuff muscles in your shoulders when you go down lots. The dude was partially right in saying going past 90 degrees works your shoulders, cuz it works the rotator cuffs (not in a good way) but it doesn't do much for the deltoids. This is how rotator cuff injuries occur on the bench press.
3. There's a bunch of tissue encasing the shoulder joint that is stretched when you go past 90 degrees. If it's stretched too much, it gets loose, then your arm is basically loose in its socket, and that ain't cool at all. Here's a link:

http://www.chekinstitute.com/articles.cfm?select=26

Actually, it was pretty funny, one day at the gym this dude wanted me to spot him. He was pushing 25lb plates on the incline, right down to the chest, and he could push them up quite easily and fast, and did about 10 reps, and I was wondering why he even asked for a spot...then suddenly he was stuck at the bottom and you could tell his rotator cuffs gave out. After he was done his set, he was rubbing his shoulders. :rofl: :rofl:
cool thanks for the link

i only do dumbells these days cause i find the bar to be quite uncomfortable for my back
yeah i've had some issues with my rotator cuffs
once my arm popped out while doing incline and it fcuked me up for almost a year

[RZRSHARP_SVX]

my bro is a personal trainer and he says its 90 degrees for the best workout

he has a university degree in personal training

[GTS Jeff]

Originally posted by RZRSHARP_SVX
university degree in personal training :bullshit:

[Hakkola]

Great to know, I usually stop at 90 deg anyway because my left elbow is fucked up, going farther is uncomfortable.

[ZorroAMG]

90 is best, do flys to get the stretch you seek.

Wax on, wax off.

[a social dsease]

I go all the way down, it just doesn't feel right if I stop at 90.

[TrevorK]

I believe it is just above 90 that is best.

The most strain on your joints occurs at 90 degrees in exercises such as squatting. It is best to stop slightly before 90 degrees to avoid this strain.

[GQBalla]

hrm no wonder my shoulders always hurt more when i got all the way down.

but im goin to start the 90 degrees all the time now.

once again beyond info ftw

[pinoyhero]

Originally posted by TrevorK
I believe it is just above 90 that is best.

The most strain on your joints occurs at 90 degrees in exercises such as squatting. It is best to stop slightly before 90 degrees to avoid this strain.

Oooo I dont know about this one, going to 90 on certain exercises only can mess up your muscular development and lead to some serious injuries .... think arms ....

[sl888]

Well it looks like most just goes to 90 so I'll give that a try for a few weeks

[TVG]

For benching it won't make much of a difference, but you guys know your knee joints are mechanically at their weakest postion at 90 degrees right? If you are stopping there and starting there, with high weight, they will get injured eventually.

Also, that link above is by Paul Chek, who is considered a nut by virtually everyone else in the industry. I gurantee you will not get big if you are doing partial range of motion. True, benching can be bad for your shoulders, but only if you are using improper technique (flared shoulders instead of tucked in). You won't see many guys benching a lot with bad technique because there's no way they could get that strong without getting injured.

And about the guy who got a degree in personal training...lol...doesn't exist, and even if you do mean a kines degree, those guys are taught 20 year old information and would be the last people I would talk to about fitness.

[89coupe]

I go as far as my joints will allow me. None of this halfway bullshit.

If you are controlling the weight and maintaining good form you should never have any issues with damaging anything.

The only time I see guys fuck up the their shoulders are for two reasons.

First, guys with bad form.

2nd, guys that are taking juice, they become so damn strong that their muscles actually become stronger then the joints causing extreme strain. Fucktards.:rofl:

[TrevorK]

Originally posted by pinoyhero


Oooo I dont know about this one, going to 90 on certain exercises only can mess up your muscular development and lead to some serious injuries .... think arms ....

If there are exercises that are comfortable in going past 90, then it is beneficial (Curls, etc...). However, the problem is stopping right at 90 deg, that's where the stress is on the joint regardless of form.

There is no problem in squatting past 90 degrees, however you then recruit other muscles in the process and start to shift the focus (And don't get me wrong, that is not a bad thing at all). The problem is squatting to 90 degrees, that is where the strain is on the joints.

[sl888]

Originally posted by 89coupe
I go as far as my joints will allow me. None of this halfway bullshit.

If you are controlling the weight and maintaining good form you should never have any issues with damaging anything.

That's what I use to say. Its not that its uncomfortable for me to go all the way down. But it seems that I've peaked with this technique. Maybe by doing 90 degrees I can increase the weight in the end cause when you do 90 you can definitely do more.

[89coupe]

Originally posted by sl888

That's what I use to say. Its not that its uncomfortable for me to go all the way down. But it seems that I've peaked with this technique. Maybe by doing 90 degrees I can increase the weight in the end cause when you do 90 you can definitely do more.

Then add more weight...LOL:dunno:

[bamboo403]

Originally posted by sl888

That's what I use to say. Its not that its uncomfortable for me to go all the way down. But it seems that I've peaked with this technique. Maybe by doing 90 degrees I can increase the weight in the end cause when you do 90 you can definitely do more.

but wouldnt you be doing more because your only going half way?

:dunno:

[sl888]

Originally posted by 89coupe

Then add more weight...LOL:dunno:
I've tried. I've been doing 65lbs dumbells consistently and been able to get 70s in for the first set or two but never able to do just 70s.


Originally posted by bamboo403

but wouldnt you be doing more because your only going half way?

:dunno:
haha yeah thats what I meant.

Well today I tried doing just 90 degrees and yeah it feels like it works the chest more in a way. After one set I was so sore and my chest was so pumped compared to how it usually is. Felt a little uncomfortable at first but it was fine after. I even had to drop my weight cause it was too hard. Probably stick with this for a while. My buddy didn't seem to have any problems and just kept his usual weight.

[V6-BoI]

Hmm.. I've always went all the way down when I'm on the bench, and I do notice sometimes my shoulders are kinda sore after it. I always thought it was working out my shoulders a bit but I guess that's not the case hahaha.

I don't mean to jack the thread but since we are on the ROM topic I always wondered about the preacher curl. I see people just bringing it down to about 90 degrees and I also see people bringing it down all the way. I've heard people say that if you just bring it down to 90 degrees it isolates your biceps more. Anyone know the story about this one?

[89coupe]

Originally posted by sl888

I've tried. I've been doing 65lbs dumbells consistently and been able to get 70s in for the first set or two but never able to do just 70s.



Tell me how you do your chest routine? ie. Sets, reps, weight and the order?

I'm curious.

[bulaian]

Originally posted by V6-BoI
Hmm.. I've always went all the way down when I'm on the bench, and I do notice sometimes my shoulders are kinda sore after it. I always thought it was working out my shoulders a bit but I guess that's not the case hahaha.

I don't mean to jack the thread but since we are on the ROM topic I always wondered about the preacher curl. I see people just bringing it down to about 90 degrees and I also see people bringing it down all the way. I've heard people say that if you just bring it down to 90 degrees it isolates your biceps more. Anyone know the story about this one?

I think for SOME, they might be trying to isolate a part of the bicep more(even though preacher curl is a total isolation exercise) but for most I believe it's just the person being weak and wanting to load up the weight to show off... as we all know the hardest part of the preacher curl is from start position up to the 90 degree bend, since after that point you don't have to fight gravity as much

[NATAS.KAUPAS]

Funny, I've never met anyone with a remotely good physique that doesn't use a full range on motion in all exercises.

But hey, I guess if a bunch of skinny kids on Beyond say it's so then it must be so.

And to the kid who's brother has a degree in personal training - give your head a shake.

[sl888]

Originally posted by 89coupe

Tell me how you do your chest routine? ie. Sets, reps, weight and the order?
I'm curious.

In order:

Flat bench with dumbells
set 1: 50lbs (each arm) 10 reps
set 2: 65lbs (sometimes 70s) 6-8 reps
set 3: same as above
set 4: 65lbs (never been able to do 70s here) 6-8 reps

Decline bench with dumbells
set 1: 65lbs 6-8 reps
set 2: same as above
set 3: "
set 4: sometimes have to drop to 60s 6-8 reps

Upper chest with cables (have to use cables for upper chest cause I fcuked my arm before and never been able to do go back)
set 1: 70 each side 8 reps
set 2: same
set 3: same
set 4: same

Inner chest with vertical curl bar on slightly inclined bench
set 1: 70lbs 8 reps
set 2: same
set 3: same

That's pretty much it. Then I go do my tri's. I try to do chest twice a week but its mostly been once since I don't really have the time.
I weigh 152 and it changes depending on how I eat that week (have really high metabolism). I think what I'm doing now is pretty good for my size. Anything higher would be crazy but I would like to get there. I don't take any supplements. My friends say if I do I would move up in weights no problem but I'm against it in a way.

[89coupe]

K, for one thing, you are working your chest way too much. Once a week is plenty if you are trying to increase your strength/size.

2nd, never do your tri's on the same day as your chest.

OK, here is a very usefull tip for increasing your strength and size.

After you have stretched well, go immediately to the heaviest weight you can possibly do for 5 reps.

So if you can do 8 reps with 65 try stepping up to 85lb dumbells right off the hop.

What this does is shock your muscles into growing.

See if you can do this weight for more then one set, if you can't then only drop down by 5lbs each time until you can do another 5 reps.

Do this for every exercise and increase weight every 2nd week, try and increase the weight by 5lbs minimum.

You will be absolutely amazed as to how quickly you notice gains and strength.

[GTS Jeff]

Originally posted by TVG
Also, that link above is by Paul Chek, who is considered a nut by virtually everyone else in the industry.

It's an academic fallacy to judge an article by its writer rather than by the article itself. The article is well supported by evidence and reasoning. And besides, I have some primary literature supporting this view too:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=pubmed&cmd=Retrieve&dopt=AbstractPlus&list_uids=15320644&query_hl=2&itool=pubmed_docsum

[NATAS.KAUPAS]

I have some primary empirical evidence too. Aside from Brad, I'd bet 99% of the tools postulating in this thread are skinny roaches that wouldn't be able to lift themselves out of a wet paper bag. So rather than being accused of perpetuating "academic fallacy" I'll just judge an opinion by those it's held by which in this case is a bunch of skinny kids trying to act smart when in reality they know exactly one thing - fuck all.

There's a reason why ancillary muscles groups become fatigued when doing proper full range movements. It's probably something many of you didn't learn in school because your mom wrote you a note to get you out of Phys. Ed. While you were in the corner reading science fiction and/or fantasy novels and sucking on your inhaler or faking a nosebleed the rest of your classmates were learning the benefits of compound exercise.

Here's a tip fellas: go to the gym and actually lift the weights, you'll get much better results than playing with yourselves on the internet.

Oh and SL888, good luck with that workout. However, I highly recommend you add in another chest day. You'll be HUGE in no time. :thumbsup:

[GTS Jeff]

Originally posted by NATAS.KAUPAS
I have some primary empirical evidence too. Aside from Brad, I'd bet 99% of the tools postulating in this thread are skinny roaches that wouldn't be able to lift themselves out of a wet paper bag. So rather than being accused of perpetuating "academic fallacy" I'll just judge an opinion by those it's held by which in this case is a bunch of skinny kids trying to act smart when in reality they know exactly one thing - fuck all.

There's a reason why ancillary muscles groups become fatigued when doing proper full range movements. It's probably something many of you didn't learn in school because your mom wrote you a note to get you out of Phys. Ed. While you were in the corner reading science fiction and/or fantasy novels and sucking on your inhaler or faking a nosebleed the rest of your classmates were learning the benefits of compound exercise.

Here's a tip fellas: go to the gym and actually lift the weights, you'll get much better results than playing with yourselves on the internet.

Oh and SL888, good luck with that workout. However, I highly recommend you add in another chest day. You'll be HUGE in no time. :thumbsup: When you say empirical, the word you're actually looking for is anecdotal. Anyway, is your whole thing about the inhalers and fake nosebleeds aimed at me? If so, just come out and say it. But you probably shouldn't; it'd be a dumb move for you, because you otherwise seem fairly smart.

[NATAS.KAUPAS]

Jeff, thanks for input, but empirical was used in context - I always apply the scientific method to my training. The nosebleed comment was a generalization merely aimed at those for whom it might apply not anyone in particular. :)

[GingeRRRBeef]

GTS, can I ask what your work out background is?

[Sharpie]

Originally posted by Silver_SpecV
GTS, can I ask what your work out background is?
I am pretty sure he went to university for it, but I could be wrong:rolleyes:

But thanks for that tip Brad I am going to try it today and see how it goes.

Also what do you guys think about using elastic bands while doing bench/squats?

[89coupe]

Originally posted by Sharpie


But thanks for that tip Brad I am going to try it today and see how it goes.



Also, don't be afraid to use the Smith machine for bench. It provides you a spot and a nice even controlled movement. A great tool to utilize if you are by yourself and you want to push yourself to the max.

[GTS Jeff]

Originally posted by Silver_SpecV
GTS, can I ask what your work out background is? Probably the same as all the other BSers in this thread; that is, reading up on shit, getting ideas from other people, and then trial+error of all the things in the gym. Like all my hobbies, once I get into something, I'll research the shit out of it. It seems to have worked for me, I'm happy with the sort of gains I've seen. I think the only thing that really sets me apart is my background in the health sciences.

But really, I think what it comes down to is that people will always argue with each other over minor variations in exercises, and there is really no definitive "right way" to do some things. What really matters is that you're at the gym, you're working hard, you're eating lots, and you're consistent. Everyone has their own way of working out that they like; this is why I don't go around the gym telling people what to do, even if I'm spotting them. But hey, if someone on Beyond is asking, why not share what you know?

[calgarygts]

Originally posted by Sharpie

I am pretty sure he went to university for it, but I could be wrong:rolleyes:

But thanks for that tip Brad I am going to try it today and see how it goes.

Also what do you guys think about using elastic bands while doing bench/squats?

Depends what you're trying to do....I've used bands and chains for squats before, didn't get much out of it - I won't be using them again. I didn't see any real changes in my performance, neither did anyone else using them.
My opinion is just work hard on regular squats and bench and you'll get the benefits you're looking for.

[sl888]

The way I see it is that one technique does not work for everyone. Each person is different so different methods work for them.
Thanks everyone for their input.

[SiR_lyfe]

go all the way down, well as far as you can go. dont do half reps doesnt make any sense.

when your doing bench, make sure it hits ur chest if your doing bar bell. for dumb bells your elbows should pass the bench

[kerry]

Originally posted by GTS Jeff
The bar only touches your chest cuz you arch your back so much. :D

But no, don't go more than 90 degrees, here's why:

1. A few studies have shown that your muscle exhibit just as much growth and strength from partial range of motion as full range of motion. So your chest becomes just as strong from 90 degree pushes as ones down to the chest.
2. You load the rotator cuff muscles in your shoulders when you go down lots. The dude was partially right in saying going past 90 degrees works your shoulders, cuz it works the rotator cuffs (not in a good way) but it doesn't do much for the deltoids. This is how rotator cuff injuries occur on the bench press.
3. There's a bunch of tissue encasing the shoulder joint that is stretched when you go past 90 degrees. If it's stretched too much, it gets loose, then your arm is basically loose in its socket, and that ain't cool at all. Here's a link:

http://www.chekinstitute.com/articles.cfm?select=26

Actually, it was pretty funny, one day at the gym this dude wanted me to spot him. He was pushing 25lb plates on the incline, right down to the chest, and he could push them up quite easily and fast, and did about 10 reps, and I was wondering why he even asked for a spot...then suddenly he was stuck at the bottom and you could tell his rotator cuffs gave out. After he was done his set, he was rubbing his shoulders. :rofl: :rofl:


I'm glad that someone finally cleared this up for me too. I've been wondering for a while why I felt
weak sauce. Now I don't really worry because I go a little past 90. I do agree with whoever said
fly for the "stretch" though. I think I was taught that in grade 6 when they were doing our stupid
weight training orientation so we could go to the High school gym. lol.

Thanks GTS Jeff.

[Unknown303]

I myself don't like to go much further than 90 on my Dumbbell bench presses. You'll find that the majority of the workout for your chests is from 90 and up, bringing it down further as stated about just stresses your shoulders and you'll feel it.

By only going as far as around 90 your isolating working your chest, not recruiting other muscles for the bottom half. Then you can goto something else to work out your shoulders in a more controlled fashion.

If you only goto 90 you'll notice you can climb weights really fast.

[hjr]

you can go to chest on small weight, but you risk serious injury if you continue to do it at heavy weights especially if you have neglected you rotator cuffs and other stabilizers.

bench for the weight
fly for the stretch

[5hift]

You will be able to find tons of info supporting either side of this argument on the net. GTS Jeff seems like a smart guy who doesnt just bs, but keep in mind the site he linked is for a guy selling a book about his opinion on the right way to bench (take it with a grain of salt). Go to a gym and ask someone who actually looks like they practice what they preach. You'll be hard pressed to find a serious lifter who isnt going all the way down on his bench. Stopping at 90 degrees is easier, and probably why it allows you to lift a lot more, and also why it doesnt count as a rep in bench competitions.

For me personally, I see more guys making mistakes with how they warm up to start benching, and how wide their grip is on the bench, rather than how low they go. And yes if you load up the bench with a lot of plates and dont break 90 degrees, you will look like a tool who cant handle the weight. Whats next, you guys going to post how ATF squats shouldnt be done and how deadlifts are bad for my back?

[mdeleon]

so does this apply only to chest presses? what about tricep extensions? i've seen people go half way as well, i used to. im also guessing goin lower than 90 while doing shoulder presses works the rotator cuffs as well? meh, i've never had a problem with my rotator cuffs unless i don't stretch properly before hand. so im sticking to the way i do mine.

[Unknown303]

Triceps i would extend your arm all the way, in both directions to fully contract the muscle.

I think what 5hift said is a good way to look at it. Most any exercise can be done without any repercussions as long as you do it with proper form. Deadlifts, squats, full motion bench press, all those can be accomplished without injury if your body is conditioned for it and your taking proper technique into consideration.

Check multiply source, compile lots of information from both sides, put it together and take from it what you want. There is always 2+ sides to an argument its better to understand both sides rather than accepting one and dismissing the others.

[KenP]

I know this thread is old and dead but NATAS.KAUPAS is my new hero. You are hillarious and have made my day at work much more enjoyable.
Please continue to put everyone in their places.
:)

[Sharpie]

Originally posted by 5hift

For me personally, I see more guys making mistakes with how they warm up to start benching, and how wide their grip is on the bench, rather than how low they go. And yes if you load up the bench with a lot of plates and dont break 90 degrees, you will look like a tool who cant handle the weight. Whats next, you guys going to post how ATF squats shouldnt be done and how deadlifts are bad for my back?
Just to give my 3 cents. People do different grips on bench to work different areas. For instance (if I am not mistaken) you do a close grip and it works the triceps. Also when benching you dont worry about going 90 degress, you go till the bench touches your chest.

Also if deadlifts hurt your back (not directed at you) then you are doing them wrong...

[FlamingC19]

2nd, never do your tri's on the same day as your chest.

Why do you say that???

[Unknown303]

Most chest workouts engage your tri's so i'm not sure how you wouldn't.

Also the most productive workout schedule involves doing a full body workout every other day so..

[fiveabi]

"full range of motion full stimulation, partial motion partial growth"

Milos Sarcev

[fiveabi]

Originally posted by NATAS.KAUPAS
Funny, I've never met anyone with a remotely good physique that doesn't use a full range on motion in all exercises.

But hey, I guess if a bunch of skinny kids on Beyond say it's so then it must be so.

And to the kid who's brother has a degree in personal training - give your head a shake.

wish i saw this b4 i posed.


BUT DUHHHH KIDS THIS GUY HIT THE NAIL ON THE HEAD.

and this is not a bodybuilding forum, ur going to get half biggoted opinions here (on the most part).

USE BODYBUILDING.COM

[sl888]

Well I've been doing just 90 degrees the past 2 weeks and so far weight has been pretty much the same. My chest feels more sore though.

[kerry]

If you go past 90 you're only going to tire your shoulders.
Ask any real personal trainer with a real education. You
HAVE to do fly to get the "stretch" you want. Just suck it
up and do more than one work out.

[Darkane]

Well since B16 brought this thread back I will contribute.

people MUST bench to the chest. try benching 90degrees for a bit then touch the chest (Not bounce) with the same weight and see if you can even do it.

Ok and now the reason you people's shoulders hurt after benching. YOU FLARE YOUR ELBOWS!

Try a narrower grip, (I'm 6'3" and use my ring finger on the second rung) and YES arch your back and TUCK your feet under the bench to avoid "pushing" with your legs. Invert your elbows in toward your rib cage and control the weight all the way down. touch the chest, DO NOT BOUNCE.

http://www.ironaddicts.com/forums/showthread.php?t=11351&highlight=bench

Read and educate. FYI that forum destroys BB.com for any information.

[kerry]

Almost every real trainer I've talked to and every website, besides forums where people can
randomly contribute, will tell you only to go to 90 when you're doing a dumb bell or bar
chest press. The fly is to work those other muscles that you don't work when you do proper
bench press. This has been told to me by 3 different trainers all of which have a BA in
Kinesiology. I'll trust them before any jackoff on a bodybuilding forum.

[Darkane]

Thats fair enough B16, I challenge people to lower the weight a little bit say 10 pounds, tuck the elbows go to the chest and focus on perfect form. Problem is people can't put aside thier ego's in the gym. Must bench 185 for 4 Shitty reps in stead of 155 for 5 perfect reps. :rolleyes:

[NATAS.KAUPAS]

Originally posted by kerry
.... besides forums where people can
randomly contribute,
...This has been told to me by 3 different trainers all of which have a BA in
Kinesiology. I'll trust them before any jackoff on a bodybuilding forum.

LOL, or an even scrawnier jackoff on a car forum trying to convince people of training methodologies that are retarded at best.

I wouldn't care if 10 different trainers all of which had a BA in kinesiology told you - I've got tit's bigger than your mom or girlfriend could ever hope to have and they didn't get that way from convincing myself it was ever ok to train like a bitch, it's because I understand range of motion, tempo, and the mechanics of compound exercise. I'd take the advice of the people rocking the best physique and the irony for you is it's never the trainers, it's the guys with experience who are actually doing the work. But whatever makes you sleep better at night, fill your boots. :thumbsup:

[pinoyhero]

^Alright homie, post your split, I'm curious now ... :)

[GTS Jeff]

Originally posted by NATAS.KAUPAS
I'd take the advice of the people rocking the best physique So what's your take on genetics? Some people that are naturally fatasses can never be skinny, though with enough work, they can be healthy at best. Same goes for the scrawnies, some will do everything right and they'll never look like Arnold. Some people have the genetics to have a great physique if they just hit the gym once a week. Does that make them experts? :dunno:

Oh wait, you're the guy who makes fun of kids with asthma. :thumbsup:

[kerry]

Originally posted by NATAS.KAUPAS


LOL, or an even scrawnier jackoff on a car forum trying to convince people of training methodologies that are retarded at best.

I wouldn't care if 10 different trainers all of which had a BA in kinesiology told you - I've got tit's bigger than your mom or girlfriend could ever hope to have and they didn't get that way from convincing myself it was ever ok to train like a bitch, it's because I understand range of motion, tempo, and the mechanics of compound exercise. I'd take the advice of the people rocking the best physique and the irony for you is it's never the trainers, it's the guys with experience who are actually doing the work. But whatever makes you sleep better at night, fill your boots. :thumbsup:

Wow, just wow,

That post goes to show you have no clue what you're talking about or who you're talking to.
People with the best physique are usually guys on 100 different kinds of protein and creatine
so they can "build their mass". Woo fucking hoo. How about the guys that can actually run 10
miles and then do ridiculous strength training for hours? I think those are the ones in the best
physical condition. Who cares if you're a huge juice monkey and all you can do is lift?
No one, except for over-tanned, overly done up, disgusting girls who have more miles on
them than my Civic.

Next time your at the gym, the guys going down to the chest will probably be the guys rocking
Popeye's shirts and are bigger than most trucks. Now the individuals doing bench press
properly will be the ones that do cardio along side strength training. Just because you're
huge doesn't mean you're not a pussy.


Originally posted by GTS Jeff


So what's your take on genetics? Some people that are naturally fatasses can never be skinny, though with enough work, they can be healthy at best. Same goes for the scrawnies, some will do everything right and they'll never look like Arnold. Some people have the genetics to have a great physique if they just hit the gym once a week. Does that make them experts?

Oh wait, you're the guy who makes fun of kids with asthma.


I'm sure based on his previous post, we can deduce that Natas is obviously too retarded to come
up with a real arguement against your biological reference. Don't worry though, I think he's looking
for a ban stick by continuing to contribute garbage to everyone's threads. :thumbsup:

[NATAS.KAUPAS]

Ok kerry, I'll bite.

First and foremost - Who am I talking about and who am I talking to? Please enlighten me? I'd really like to know who you are? But, more importantly than that, please tell me why I should fucking care?

By the way, just because you're scrawny doesn't mean you're not a pussy either. :thumbsup:

Secondly kerry, I fail to see the biological reference that you're alluding to. Apparently you're confusing biological reference with conjecture and hyperbole on the part of someone that I suspect uses genetics as a crutch for failure.

Finally, "ban stick"? Like I said before, fill your boots kid. :zzz:

@PMS Jeff - My take on genetics?

Well let me start by saying that my take is obviously a little bit more realistic than yours as indicated by your skewed view of the normal distribution curve. You seem to be discounting a whole lot of people falling at or close to the mean that have achieved great things with themselves. Moreover, I would rather take the advice of someone who at least appears to know what they're doing judging by what's reflected in their build. Call my logic flawed if you wish, but I doubt you'd be able to argue the results.

Here's my other take on genetics - I don't use them as an excuse to look like shit.

Anyhow, when I see you guys at the gym using your ridiculous training techniques I'll just do what I usually do. Have a chuckle and carry on.

[KenP]

People can sit on their fat asses and blame genetics all they want but if they are unwilling to try I have no sympathy for them. Also I am going to assume that the vast majority of people giving fitness advice on this car forum are young pre-pubescent boys who go to the gym and think that simply by lifting weights they are going to get big, and when they don't they go blaming their genetic make up.

I agree with NATAS.KAUPAS when he says he would never take advice from someone who is in horrible physical shape. Hell I wouldn't take advice from anyone who couldn't lift as much as me.

/agree

Anyhow, when I see you guys at the gym using your ridiculous training techniques I'll just do what I usually do. Have a chuckle and carry on.

[~Leah~]

Originally posted by sl888
Well I've been doing just 90 degrees the past 2 weeks and so far weight has been pretty much the same. My chest feels more sore though.

That's probably because you are isolating the muscle better and using the right muscles. When you go past 90, you're just activating smaller stabilizer muscles that are not located in the chest.

[kerry]

Hahahahahahaha.

Gold. Pure gold.

Do whatever you think is right when you're lifting. Car forums are probably not the best
place to get your advice. Ask people whom you see fit to ask. That's my last bit of
advice.

[GTS Jeff]

Originally posted by KenP
. Also I am going to assume that the vast majority of people giving fitness advice on this car forum are young pre-pubescent boys who go to the gym and think that simply by lifting weights they are going to get big, and when they don't they go blaming their genetic make up.
The key word in your post is assume.

Assume: to make shit up when you don't actually know what's going on.

I see what you're trying to say, and you're definitely not a no-class goon like NATAS, but c'mon man, you can't really talk shit about people you don't know. Like really, how do you know that people here are unwilling to try?