Good dyno results!

[ls/vtec-crx]

Just finished a customers car which made:

280 whp @ 8psi
190 ft/lbs.

Hopefully I will running the same set up soon.

[gpomp]

Is that car gonna be at SS?

[littledan]

damn... what kind of setup are they running?? what car?


Originally posted by ls/vtec-crx
Just finished a customers car which made:

280 whp @ 8psi
190 ft/lbs.

Hopefully I will running the same set up soon.

[rage2]

Is that the CRVTEC turbo I keep hearing about?

[5gluder]

Wow, i'm assuming this is a Type R as well?

[redline]

is this on toma's dyno?

good numbers!!

[Ekliptix]

I also want to hear engine details

[ls/vtec-crx]

Originally posted by redline
is this on toma's dyno?

good numbers!!


Yup it was at Toma's. And the setup he is running is:

CRV Block
GSR Head
LS Tranny
JG Edelbrock Intake Manifold
Hondata
Hondata Intake Gasket
Skunk2 Valve Springs & Retainers
550cc Injectors
Drag 3 Manifold and down pipe
HKS BOV
Spearco Intercooler
Garrett T3/T4 57-63 Turbo
Turbosmart Wastegate 35mm


We're going to see what it runs tomorrow night.

[bart]

you need more torque, lol

[shadowz]

Must see this integra

[Ekliptix]

He'll need some slicks.

[Maxt]

Not trying to be an ass, but really thats quite the shopping list for a measly 280 hp and a 190 ft/lbs of torque.... Just for curiosity, what would all these parts cost, what would be the install and tuning charge, and what is the actual car worth?? Maxt

CRV Block
GSR Head
LS Tranny
JG Edelbrock Intake Manifold
Hondata
Hondata Intake Gasket
Skunk2 Valve Springs & Retainers
550cc Injectors
Drag 3 Manifold and down pipe
HKS BOV
Spearco Intercooler
Garrett T3/T4 57-63 Turbo
Turbosmart Wastegate 35mm

[Fluidic]

"More then you can afford pal.... Honda!!"

lol

[dj_honda]

can't wait to see it tommorrow

[Maxt]

It just seems a little on the low side given the mods, thats why I am curious, to what it would cost to get that far in..
For comparison my car has 10 g into it, including the car itself, and makes a 100 hp more than that..maxt

[THREE40SEVEN]

Originally posted by Maxt
Not trying to be an ass, but really thats quite the shopping list for a measly 280 hp and a 190 ft/lbs of torque.... Just for curiosity, what would all these parts cost, what would be the install and tuning charge, and what is the actual car worth?? Maxt


WTF you talkin bout? 280rwhp is great for a turboed stock long block with aftermarket intake, fuel system and engine management.
Have you dynoed your car at the same dyno? If not, you're comparing apples to oranges ;) Ive seen a 70rwhp difference on a car between tomas and another dyno in town.

FYI, i just cranked out 394rwhp on one of my own customers cars on the same dyno :D



Edit.... Where do you work?

[ACS-e36]

Originally posted by Maxt
It just seems a little on the low side given the mods, thats why I am curious, to what it would cost to get that far in..
For comparison my car has 10 g into it, including the car itself, and makes a 100 hp more than that..maxt :bullshit:

[^SkylinE^]

So what Car is this not pats white civic hatch is it??

[Maxt]

Originally posted by THREE40SEVEN

WTF you talkin bout? 280rwhp is great for a turboed stock long block with aftermarket intake, fuel system and engine management.
Have you dynoed your car at the same dyno? If not, you're comparing apples to oranges ;) Ive seen a 70rwhp difference on a car between tomas and another dyno in town.

FYI, i just cranked out 394rwhp on one of my own customers cars on the same dyno :D



Edit.... Where do you work?

Such attitude.....My car was on the same dyno squirt...

Here lets try this again..

GSR Head
JG Edelbrock Intake Manifold
Hondata Intake Gasket
Skunk2 Valve Springs & Retainers

Thats not a stock long block, Short block maybe, but that still looks like alot of money for the power ouput, when you consider what can be done with other cars even without forced induction.
But I am still curious on a dollar amount into this car, lets see what the return on investment is like for power output.. I keep hearing how economical it is build a honda, can we get this question answered?

ACS-e36: Little do you know.....Maxt

[syeve]

its far from economical to build a honda...you heard wrong. That is a lot of money to make 290 WHP BUT, its all in the type of car we chose to build...Im sure that if he put that much $ into an RX-7 it would be faster...but he may hate RX-7's so whats the point. I could put that much money into a mustang and hand your RX-7 its ass...its all preference.

BTW, brad makes 500WHP on that dyno...just dont ask me how much his car costs...:rolleyes:

www.preluderacing.com


http://www3.telus.net/public/bunryn/gallery/Sept12dyno.jpg


HONDA TOURQUE???:confused:

[atomic]

190 ft torque? :P
holy honda batman :)

[ls/vtec-crx]

Originally posted by ^SkylinE^
So what Car is this not pats white civic hatch is it??

No it's not Pat's car. It's a customer from out of town. I am not going to tell how much he spent on the car cause it's just common courtesy. You can ask him yourself when you see him at Secret Street.

[Maxt]

Originally posted by syeve
[B]its far from economical to build a honda...you heard wrong. That is a lot of money to make 290 WHP BUT, its all in the type of car we chose to build...Im sure that if he put that much $ into an RX-7 it would be faster...but he may hate RX-7's so whats the point.

BTW, brad makes 500WHP on that dyno...just dont ask me how much his car costs...:rolleyes:

This does nothing to answer the original question, can someone take a stab at adding up those mods, and give us a dollar value here?
There are so many starry eyed kids out there with 130 bucks, a civic, and dellusions of 450 hp, lets set the record straight on what it takes to make serious power out of a honda..

PS:
I could put that much money into a mustang and hand your RX-7 its ass...its all preference.
Bring it on.....Maxt

[ecstasy_civic]

oh man, your car is gonna get a run max lol, i cant wait to see it

[legendboy]

Originally posted by ls/vtec-crx

CRV Block $600
GSR Head $1000
LS Tranny $3-400
JG Edelbrock Intake Manifold $400
Hondata $400-$1500
Hondata Intake Gasket $100
Skunk2 Valve Springs & Retainers $600
550cc Injectors $4-500
Drag 3 Manifold and down pipe $600
HKS BOV $300
Spearco Intercooler $600
Garrett T3/T4 57-63 Turbo $1000
Turbosmart Wastegate 35mm $300


so about $5-6000 :dunno:

[Expiredsoda]

Shoulda used a B16 head. Well...... unless he had a stock B18C, then I can understand why. :D

[Redlyne_mr2]

It takes a pile of cash to build a high hp honda, I wouldnt be interested in dishing out 6gs to build a 280whp fwd car but to each is own and I respect the work that was put into it..nice numbers, good look to the driver at the track

[b16Ateg]

i just wnat to see or hear the numbers he puts out at the track and then we could tell if it was all worth it... its all about how you drive your car on the track... someone post his times if he races at secret street tonight i wnat to know what he runs..

[Maxt]

Unfortunatly the track is not the greatest indicator of engine power, since the variables of chassis setup and drive ability have an part to play in the quarter mile equation..
Its projects like this that should be made public with the cost, so people know what they are getting into before the money is spent..
If I had a dollar for every kid I see in a speedshop blowing cash and hoping for 14's I would be a rich man..
Its interesting to see though what it costs to reach 280 hp.. Yes its personal preference, I don't see the attraction of the Honda at all.. But to a kid that wants to 1/4 mile, the info in this thread could be helpful in deciding what kind of car to buy.. I think a factory turbo car would be better start regardless of brand, or something with more inherent performance potential, but thats just me...maxt

[Loose]

I'm gonna guess that cost at least $10K

For comparison, a Drag turbo kit cost about $5500 alone.

This car seems to have a turbo system a bit better than that one (better I/C and BOV). Then you add a CRV short block, GSR head, Hondata, etc, the cost of putting it together and dynoing....

[ls/vtec-crx]

Originally posted by Maxt
Unfortunatly the track is not the greatest indicator of engine power, since the variables of chassis setup and drive ability have an part to play in the quarter mile equation..
Its projects like this that should be made public with the cost, so people know what they are getting into before the money is spent..
If I had a dollar for every kid I see in a speedshop blowing cash and hoping for 14's I would be a rich man..
Its interesting to see though what it costs to reach 280 hp.. Yes its personal preference, I don't see the attraction of the Honda at all.. But to a kid that wants to 1/4 mile, the info in this thread could be helpful in deciding what kind of car to buy.. I think a factory turbo car would be better start regardless of brand, or something with more inherent performance potential, but thats just me...maxt

Yeah but if you think about it every kid that goes to any other shop buys intake and exhuast, automatically thinks they are going to run 14 seconds. And then they are so surprised when they run 16's or 17's. These guys that are coming in to spend the money seem to be the ones that are making the best power.

[Ben]

Originally posted by ls/vtec-crx


Yeah but if you think about it every kid that goes to any other shop buys intake and exhuast, automatically thinks they are going to run 14 seconds. And then they are so surprised when they run 16's or 17's. These guys that are coming in to spend the money seem to be the ones that are making the best power.
:werd:
you gotta pay to play my friend

[D-MON]

Originally posted by Maxt
There are so many starry eyed kids out there with 130 bucks, a civic, and dellusions of 450 hp, lets set the record straight on what it takes to make serious power out of a honda..


Actually there are so many starry eyed kids out there with $130 bucks, any car, and delusions of 450.00 HP. No matter what kind of car you start out with its gonna take alot of money to get to 450 HP. People are willing to spend more money on getting a honda to high HP than say a mustang because of the challenge. It's too easy to get 5.0L motors into high HP. It's more fun and rewarding when you take your 1.6L/1.8L motor and blast off better times than most of the 5.0L out there.

[nosoup4u]

its still a HONDUH!!!
no mater what you spent on it:(

[Doodle]

Originally posted by nosoup4u
its still a HONDUH!!!
no mater what you spent on it:(

Uh dood any car keeps its name no matter how much you put into it. DUH!:clap:

[Expiredsoda]

Originally posted by Maxt
I think a factory turbo car would be better start regardless of brand, or something with more inherent performance potential, but thats just me...maxt

Your damn right about that, Honda motors are not designed from the factory for ANY type of forced induction, as we probly all know. I constantly see people turboing their honda and running a pathetic 6-7psi on stock internals without proper fuel management. That sort of thing is simply there for show in my opinion.
Im a huge fan of the fully built NA Honda motors, I've seen some really impressive things done with those, and the costs are just about as much as a moderate properly built turbo setup. It all comes down to which direction you want to take.

[three.eighteen.]

for all those that think 280hp isnt that great...think about it...a little 2.0 making about ~300 crank hp...i would say thats pretty impressive

[rage2]

Originally posted by Expiredsoda
I constantly see people turboing their honda and running a pathetic 6-7psi. That sort of thing is simply there for show in my opinion
:rofl:

Dude, learn about turbos before you make statements like that. 6-7psi being show? Yea, for suckers like you. An efficient turbo at 6psi will rape an inefficient turbo at 15psi for that motor. Example... my 944 turbo runs 15psi stock, makes 217hp. With my upgraded turbo I can only run 12psi on pump fuel, and it makes 350hp. I guess I'm just doing it for show.

[B18C]

Originally posted by Expiredsoda


Im a huge fan of the fully built NA Honda motors, I've seen some really impressive things done with those, and the costs are just about as much as a moderate properly built turbo setup. It all comes down to which direction you want to take.

Please tell me a all-motor honda setup that puts out 280whp in Calgary for under say $10G's.

[Expiredsoda]

Originally posted by rage2

:rofl:

Dude, learn about turbos before you make statements like that. 6-7psi being show? Yea, for suckers like you. An efficient turbo at 6psi will rape an inefficient turbo at 15psi for that motor. Example... my 944 turbo runs 15psi stock, makes 217hp. With my upgraded turbo I can only run 12psi on pump fuel, and it makes 350hp. I guess I'm just doing it for show.


Do you have a bigger intercooler? Bigger injectors? Bigger turbo? I would assume thats why, plus your 944 turbo im assuming has the M44/51 engine, so thats 2.5L. Plus im talking about Honda engines, not Porches. I guess I didn't make myself clear on that. Honda engines are not designed for forced induction, and if one is built up for it, it has sleeves, low compression pistons, forged rods ect. Almost every single Honda turbo that I've found information on thats running under 7psi, has all stock internals. Efficent or not, in order to make real power those motors need 10psi+. However 280HP@8psi on a B20Vtec setup is very very impresive. I was speaking about stock motors with a prepackaged turbo kit that is not properly setup. I failed to mention that, so yes I am an idiot.

[Expiredsoda]

Originally posted by B18C


Please tell me a all-motor honda setup that puts out 280whp in Calgary for under say $10G's.

The NA motors that are built up don't put down nearly 280whp, I never said they did. The NA motors rev up extremely high and with high compression. A good cheaper one would be a 1.8L and make about 200whp for about 9-10G's, but could probly run a similar quarter mile time considering it isn't plagued with traction problems and makes power beyond 8700, most of the time till 9000, with short little gears, those things can really really go.

[B18C]

There is no way a 200whp NA car will keep up with a 280whp turbo car down the 1/4 mile. 80whp is a ton to make up just with traction and a slightly higher redline.

[Joe Malms]

Originally posted by nosoup4u
its still a HONDUH!!!
no mater what you spent on it:(

hahahah
hater!

[rx7_turbo2]

Originally posted by rage2

:rofl:

Dude, learn about turbos before you make statements like that. 6-7psi being show? Yea, for suckers like you. An efficient turbo at 6psi will rape an inefficient turbo at 15psi for that motor. Example... my 944 turbo runs 15psi stock, makes 217hp. With my upgraded turbo I can only run 12psi on pump fuel, and it makes 350hp. I guess I'm just doing it for show.

I think you missed his point. I think what he meant was that there is alot more to building a good forced induction Honda motor than just bolting a turbo to it. And that if your someone who just bolts a turbo on without any internal mods then you have the turbo so you can tell all your friends you run a turbo'd Honda and nothing more. And as far as I can tell your 12psi doesnt fit into his criteria of 6-7psi so I'm not sure why you thought he was refering to you about the show part?

I think you really have to be into turboing a Honda like that because the hp gains don't seem to really justify the cash spent. The same cash could be spend on a handfull of other cars and more power would have resulted, but if it's what your into who am I to say otherwise?

[Expiredsoda]

Originally posted by B18C
There is no way a 200whp NA car will keep up with a 280whp turbo car down the 1/4 mile. 80whp is a ton to make up just with traction and a slightly higher redline.

You would be surprized, the turbo car would beat it yes, but the a N/A eg hatch with 200-210 whp will run a mid, high 13. Thats not bad considering.

[B18C]

Originally posted by Expiredsoda


You would be surprized, the turbo car would beat it yes, but the a N/A eg hatch with 200-210 whp will run a mid, high 13. Thats not bad considering.

How many n/a hondas have you seen in Calgary that run mid 13's? I have personally seen none.

It will cost you much more to get a n/a honda into the 13's than a f/i honda. If you don't agree please list a n/a setup that will do it for under $10G's. You know what, I haven't even seen one n/a honda (other than an s2000) put out 200whp in Calgary but I have seen a few f/i honda's do it. Why do you think that is?

[Expiredsoda]

Originally posted by B18C


How many n/a hondas have you seen in Calgary that run mid 13's? I have personally seen none.

It will cost you much more to get a n/a honda into the 13's than a f/i honda. If you don't agree please list a n/a setup that will do it for under $10G's. You know what, I haven't even seen one n/a honda (other than an s2000) put out 200whp in Calgary but I have seen a few f/i honda's do it. Why do you think that is?


It's not an easy route to go and the intial cost is expensive, if you factor in labour it will be past 10g's, but im talking along the lines of doing it yourself. The B20 setups with high compression put down 200+ whp with minor extras. Most people can't do this setup properly, or don't even know about it. That is why that is. Just because you don't see it in Calgary does not mean it exists or is possible.

Here is an example. http://www.importreview.com/dyno/2.0/CRVtec2.jpg

And here is a video, total cost of parts for this setup as quoted by C-speed $7890 US
http://www.c-speedracing.com/mission/03/cspeed12-83.avi

[Maxt]

Originally posted by ls/vtec-crx


Yeah but if you think about it every kid that goes to any other shop buys intake and exhuast, automatically thinks they are going to run 14 seconds. And then they are so surprised when they run 16's or 17's. These guys that are coming in to spend the money seem to be the ones that are making the best power.
I disagree, alot of these kids buy whatever they are told to buy, and some spend alot of money on cars that will never see better than a 16 second time slip, I can easily bring forth some 22,000 dollar speed shop horror stories if you really want to know.. You can spend as much as you want at some of these shops in town and you'll still run 18's...Maxt

[Maxt]

Originally posted by rage2

:rofl:

Dude, learn about turbos before you make statements like that. 6-7psi being show? Yea, for suckers like you. An efficient turbo at 6psi will rape an inefficient turbo at 15psi for that motor. Example... my 944 turbo runs 15psi stock, makes 217hp. With my upgraded turbo I can only run 12psi on pump fuel, and it makes 350hp. I guess I'm just doing it for show.
Thats a blanket statement that may only hold true if all other avenues have been covered or exhausted to compare two turbo's for instance, if we compare the ht18s to an ht20s with the 18 at 15 psi, and the ht20 at 6 psi, yes the 20 is closer to its effiecieny range, but improve the intercooling on the ht18s and it pull past the larger ht20, there is more ways to density recovery than just changing compressor wheels.

Back to this motor, I think it could be alot more powerful for alot less with money put in the right places, there are some mods listed here that seem to be more n/a appropriate rather than turbo neccesary, while they are a nice touch, leave the head, valve springs, intake manifold yada yada yada at home, and build a low compression long block with some decent rods, size a turbo for 15 psi range, and let it have it.. Building a turbo system around 6-7 psi is like getting married just to get a handjob....Maxt

[Expiredsoda]

Originally posted by Maxt
Building a turbo system around 6-7 psi is like getting married just to get a handjob....Maxt

I couldn't have said it better myself. :D

[THREE40SEVEN]

Originally posted by Maxt


Such attitude.....My car was on the same dyno squirt...

Here lets try this again..

GSR Head
JG Edelbrock Intake Manifold
Hondata Intake Gasket
Skunk2 Valve Springs & Retainers

Thats not a stock long block, Short block maybe, but that still looks like alot of money for the power ouput, when you consider what can be done with other cars even without forced induction.
But I am still curious on a dollar amount into this car, lets see what the return on investment is like for power output.. I keep hearing how economical it is build a honda, can we get this question answered?

ACS-e36: Little do you know.....Maxt
Hey Squirt, He's is using PRODUCTION honda parts minus trhe intake.... Thats says stock long block to me.

From what i gather, you are waiting to hear the total amount to build this car, so you can boast on how you spent way less money and made more power.
Congratulations! :thumbsup:


Originally posted by Maxt
Unfortunatly the track is not the greatest indicator of engine power, since the variables of chassis setup and drive ability have an part to play in the quarter mile equation..
Its projects like this that should be made public with the cost, so people know what they are getting into before the money is spent..

Once again, WTF are you talking about?

The track is THE indicator of performance... Not a dyno sheet or a piece of paper.
Your car's weight and MPH in the 1/4 are in direct relation to how much power your engine is making.
What are your times and trap speed? I'd love to know, as i havent seen an rx7, running mph's in the late teens or low 120's in alberta.... anticipating a 3000lb (am i close?) race weight. I dont care if your running street tires on shit suspension.... your MPH should be in the high teens in calgary. Better traction will actually lower your MPH.

Why is it yours or anyone elses business how much this guy spent on his car?

[colinderksen]

So what did the car run at S.S.?? I dont remember a Prelude there.

[THREE40SEVEN]

Originally posted by Expiredsoda




Here is an example. http://www.importreview.com/dyno/2.0/CRVtec2.jpg

[/url]
:bullshit:
There is NO FUCKING WAY, a 217whp car will do 12.2's at 111mph at 3000feet, unless it was installed on a go kart.

[colinderksen]

So with my 213 rwhp Stang I should run mid 13's then?
Why the fuck am I at 14.6 then?? :banghead: :D

[THREE40SEVEN]

Originally posted by colinderksen
So with my 213 rwhp Stang I should run mid 13's then?
Why the fuck am I at 14.6 then?? :banghead: :D
You'll hit low 13's next week Colin!!;)
I dont know if Brads prelude ever made a full pass at 490whp....
I know he broke his lsd and an axle shaft..

[Chris Ng]

Originally posted by colinderksen
So with my 213 rwhp Stang I should run mid 13's then?
Why the fuck am I at 14.6 then?? :banghead: :D

Your guess is as good as mine... I've dynoed between 250-260 rwhp with my rx7 on Toma's dyno (with one flukey 274 run) and the best I could muster on the track last year was a 14.3@98mph....

Perhaps it's not so much the car, as it is the driver... I'm completely willing to admit that I can't launch worth poop...

[Maxt]

Originally posted by THREE40SEVEN

Hey Squirt, He's is using PRODUCTION honda parts minus trhe intake.... Thats says stock long block to me.

From what i gather, you are waiting to hear the total amount to build this car, so you can boast on how you spent way less money and made more power.
Congratulations! :thumbsup:

Fuck you....

What I want to see is how much it costs to build 280 hp in a honda, I keep reading how these things are the shiznit, and to date I remain somewhat skeptical of these cars, but I also want to be fair and see how it relates to other cars I have seen built to similar levels and what it took, as far as other 2 litres I know of, the dsm seems to be a good build as well as the nissan sr20det motors...



Once again, WTF are you talking about?

The track is THE indicator of performance... Not a dyno sheet or a piece of paper.
Your car's weight and MPH in the 1/4 are in direct relation to how much power your engine is making.
What are your times and trap speed? I'd love to know, as i havent seen an rx7, running mph's in the late teens or low 120's in alberta.... anticipating a 3000lb (am i close?) race weight. I dont care if your running street tires on shit suspension.... your MPH should be in the high teens in calgary. Better traction will actually lower your MPH.

Why is it yours or anyone elses business how much this guy spent on his car?

Long block includes cylinder head and related parts, check his list again, give your head shake and I expect your apology in the next post..

A long block is any "special complete" engine minus outer items such as valve covers, flywheel, oil pan, timing cover, distributor and harmonic balancer.
Generally, a short block is any long block engine minus internal components like cylinder head(s), oil pump, gaskets, lifters, sometimes timing components and camshaft.




If you spin your wheels to have track will you take your timeslip as gospel to what power the car has, I once saw a 3000 hp top fuel dragster run a 13.5 at 90 mph, run those numbers for us and let us know if that adds up...
You can only relate quarter mile times, and use them as comparison, when traction and driver ability(which includes shift points) is exactly the same, otherwise you have no chance of correctly guaging the horsepower of a car in relation to another ....
Maxt

[colinderksen]

Originally posted by Chris Ng


Your guess is as good as mine... I've dynoed between 250-260 rwhp with my rx7 on Toma's dyno (with one flukey 274 run) and the best I could muster on the track last year was a 14.3@98mph....

Perhaps it's not so much the car, as it is the driver... I'm completely willing to admit that I can't launch worth poop...
Ya I was there to see you run. Nice numbers :thumbsup:

[Expiredsoda]

Originally posted by THREE40SEVEN

:bullshit:
There is NO FUCKING WAY, a 217whp car will do 12.2's at 111mph at 3000feet, unless it was installed on a go kart.

If you watch the video, that B20 setup on the ITR puts down 240 WHP. The ITR weighs 400 lbs more, im assuming the hatch ran with some really good tires or slicks, and was gutted for weight. It's pretty impressive though isnt it? :D
If your still not convinced, email importreview, they will give you all the details. I was a skeptic too myself at first.