BUELL???, ya, buell....

[hjr]

So i am wondering about the buell lightning. ive reading up a bit, and it seems that it is quite a nice bike for what it is (street runabout-ish-ness). many sport bike riders hate it for reasons that are rarely explained, and of course harley people dont either... BUT, i really like the design. i have since it came out. i think it looks like the perfect city bike... now i know its not as powerful as the current japanese lineup, but what is really wrong with this bike? what are the major glaring issues that make so many people hate it?

I am interested in getting one, thats why i ask. im not going to be on the track, and as such, find sport bikes to be a bit of overkill... though i could be wrong.

soooo, any thoughts or comments?

http://www.buell.com/common/07/lightning/xb12s/gallery/584/beauty5.jpg

http://www.buell.com/common/07/lightning/xb12s/gallery/584/action9.jpg

[SJW]

Junk

[Masked Bandit]

Poor reliability.

I have a client who owns one and he has told me that if he would not recommend it unless you are VERY handy with the tools. He is a mechanic (not bike) by trade.

[Graham_A_M]

^ Its related to a Harley as far the engine is concerned, For that reason alone I'd never ever touch one. Low performance, burns oil from new, gas guzzler, vibrates profusely....just...........ugh!:barf:

[Supa Dexta]

haha.. True enough.. I was parked next to 2 harleys at a light the other day, I was going to roll down my window to make small chat (people do it when I'm on my bike all the time) his bike was shaking like crazy!.. Unreal.. like his whole body was shaking all over and the engine looked like it was going to jump out of the bike.. Looked as if it was mounted in the frame on string... ha.. But I passed since they looked like the typical newb rider 40+ yr olds, and I didn't want to get in an argument with them.. ha.. I was also going to point out his plate was expired.. :rolleyes:

[MrSector9]

v-rod engine isnt to bad (then again look at the designers) , the new EVO motor is WAY better then the oringals but sitll quite bad.

They have another new engine coming out also within the next year or so that is based on the Vrod.

[euro tang]

I don’t think they’re that bad, I actually like the look of them. Gas is stored inside the huge frame instead of the tank. My friend has one and it shakes like crazy when idling but when I sat on it, it seemed very comfortable. Supposedly its got a lot of torque and not so much high end power compared to a sport bike. I was considering buying one at one point.

[Ogpogo]

Originally posted by Supa Dexta
haha.. True enough.. I was parked next to 2 harleys at a light the other day, I was going to roll down my window to make small chat (people do it when I'm on my bike all the time) his bike was shaking like crazy!.. Unreal.. like his whole body was shaking all over and the engine looked like it was going to jump out of the bike.. :

That is specifically in the design, thats what gives a harley its trademark sound.

"This unevenness is further accentuated by another of Harley's designs that most manufacturers would consider dated. While today's motorcycle manufacturers typically use individual ignition coils for each of the cylinders in their engines, Harley-Davidson continues to use only one coil to serve the needs of two cylinders. This means that the sparkplugs can not be controlled separately -- both plugs fire at the same time, regardless of whether it is that cylinder's combustion stroke or not. Thus, the sparkplugs in a Harley are firing twice during a complete engine cycle -- once on the combustion stroke and once on the exhaust stroke. While one cylinder is beginning its combustion stroke and sparking, the other is beginning its exhaust stroke and also sparking. This spark on the exhaust stroke is known as a &quotwasted spark," (A. Bub) and since there is a minute amount of unburned fuel in the exhausting cylinder, this &quotwasted spark" creates a partial detonation. This partial detonation is important not only from an emissions standpoint but also from an acoustics standpoint, because it definitely contributes to exhaust unevenness.

Engine Architecture and Crankshaft Design. While the design decisions surrounding the air/fuel induction into the cylinder are clearly important to creating unique tonal characteristics, it is the decisions surrounding the combustion process that are of primary importance. In particular, the use of a single-pin crankshaft in a 45° V-Twin is perhaps the single most important parameter to consider while trying to explain the origins of the 'Harley sound,' for this combination results in a unique engine timing diagram and a unique elopeness that directly translate into the tonal characteristics that Harley cherishes. This combination is no secret, for as Jon Thompson explains:

That characteristic sound and rhythm [of a Harley] is the result of both connecting rods... being driven off of a single crankshaft pin. The [Honda] Shadow... has two crankpins, oriented 90° apart. That's a better way to quell the engine's dynamic forces, but it doesn't reproduce the sound of nostalgia. (Thompson 44) "

[kevie88]

^ I don't agree with your source about the wasted spark causing partial detonation, It's impossible to detonate when you are in the exhaust part of the cycle.. There is nothing left to ignite and no compression when the exhaust valve is open. I have had quite a few engines over the years with "wasted spark" (my 2001 R1 was one) and not one of them sounded or vibrated like a harley motor (thank god).


Anyway, back to the Buell, I think its a really great bike in search of a powerful, reliable powerplant. Handles good, brakes good, but damn that motor to hell...

[Ogpogo]

Originally posted by kevie88
^ I don't agree with your source about the wasted spark causing partial detonation, It's impossible to detonate when you are in the exhaust part of the cycle.. There is nothing left to ignite and no compression when the exhaust valve is open. I have had quite a few engines over the years with "wasted spark" (my 2001 R1 was one) and not one of them sounded or vibrated like a harley motor (thank god).



Well that wasnt the main bit at all... If you keep reading, you'll see it explain the single-pin crank setup (in which I bolded specifically to make the suggestion that it was the important bit), which is what gives the motor such madd vibration, and the uneven intervals of exhaust sound.

I dont see how a common coil would create that shake, but you can't argue the crank setup.:dunno:

[SJW]

Either way the bikes are shit.

[Ogpogo]

Originally posted by SJW
Either way the bikes are shit.

Haha, that I wont argue. A guy I work with owns a white one, and claims it's a love hate relationship. The bike looks fantastic, and the brake setup is interesting, but its reliability isn't up to snuff.

[SJW]

I think the bikes themselves look quite cool. I looked into them when i was shopping for bikes. Then i realized quickly they were a harley product. Well shit half the parts on a harley are made in China. Great American products eh? What I don't get is the whole harley culture. If I was going to get a cruiser it sure as shit wouldnt be a harley.

[Graham_A_M]

EDIT: nevermind

[3g4u]

I have a Honda shadow cruiser and i love it, but i get to ride a fair share of sweet cruisers including an american ironhorse and HD road king classic, and you will understand why people buy the HD over some jap bike once you get on one yourself and go for a cruise. Beautiful peice of machinery. Im currently building a custom chopper from a harley Softail frame and S And S 111 engine, americans just know how to make cruisers IMO. Americans do not know how to make sport bikes though. IMO.

[Eleanor]

So bumping this thread up again. I rode my cousin's Buell XB125cg and I loved it, haha. The torque was wonderful, the sound was great. It vibrated a lot, but I figured the GF would like that ;)

He hasn't owned it very long (bought it in ~May), but he hasn't had any issues with it yet. His only real complaint with it was it's only a 5-speed.

I think they are fantastic looking bikes, and would probably seriously look into one in the future if I get bored of the CBR. Either that or a Triumph Speed Triple :D


Originally posted by kevie88
It's impossible to detonate when you are in the exhaust part of the cycle.. There is nothing left to ignite and no compression when the exhaust valve is open.
Sorry, had to quote this, because it's wrong. You can still detonate on the exhaust stroke, there is still fuel left in the chamber (unless you're running at Stoich or lean, which means you have bigger problems to worry about, haha) and you can burn gas with no compression quite easily, you just don't get as much power out of it. Look at some of the delayed ignition launch controllers for example, they have no issues with lighting the fuel with the exhaust valve open.

[japan_us]

Originally posted by Eleanor
....
I think they are fantastic looking bikes, and would probably seriously look into one in the future if I get bored of the CBR. Either that or a Triumph Speed Triple :D
...

:thumbsup: to the Trumpet - picked up a Striple earlier this year and love it. Would love to have the Speed too.

[redsands]

Originally posted by SJW
Either way the bikes are shit.

I'm sure I could read your posts all day long and just sit and laugh. Nothing useful to say, with nothing to back up your claims.

As for the original question the Buell (2003 and newer) are actually very low maintenance bikes. They need no valve adjustments like the imports and newer models are fitted with with lifetime belts that do not need adjustments or replacement (unless you catch a rock and puncture the belt). Oil changes every 8K, tranny fluid 16K. I've had fewer issues on my new Buell than I did on my new civic - which was a great car regardless.

A lot of people have preconceived ideas about Buells, but few actually know about them. They are bikes that shake and rumble with amazing torque and there not a dime a dozen. Not that I don't love Jap bikes, I'd take one any day, just not over my Buell. :D

[SJW]

Hey pimp them all you want. I love seeing harleys on the side of the road leaking oil and the owner putting his hands up as if to say WTF!!!!

The OP wanted opinions and I gave him mine. They are not my cup o tea. Before I bought my bike I read everything I could get my hands on about motorcycles as well as personal opinions online.

Just read any review in any british magazine about the ulysses.

They call it the useless-ees.

Now the speed triple.... thats a bike i'd like to see myself on.

[A790]

I rode a 500cc Buell and wasn't really impressed. My 10 year old Ninja felt better put together than the Buell, and the Buell was brand new.

[kragnorok]

Originally posted by A790
I rode a 500cc Buell and wasn't really impressed. My 10 year old Ninja felt better put together than the Buell, and the Buell was brand new.

That is the problem you rode a Buell Blast. Those bikes are rediculously gutless and just horribly put together. For any of the other Buells, the older ones are ok since they were built with a 1200 sportster engine, but the newer style ones are crap in my opinion, worked lots with them. WAY too overpriced... for the same price, you could get a decent Jap rocket and have a lot of money left over.

So if you are gonna get one , I would say look at the cyclones, or any of the first gen ones imo. Better riding position, comfy bikes and can still be a really fun ride.