Three Cheers for Communism

[kertejud]

At least it works on paper.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iyUu-8nbd58

[01RedDX]

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[ercchry]

Originally posted by 01RedDX
Also works for 1.3 billion people in China. It is in fact, the only system that will work over there.

yeah.... umm no


they are not running a pure commi system over there anymore, so no it did not work for them either

ps: i havent watched the video yet...

[01RedDX]

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[suen17]

Originally posted by ercchry


yeah.... umm no


they are not running a pure commi system over there anymore, so no it did not work for them either

ps: i havent watched the video yet...

pretty much they are, yea they got a somewhat capitalist economy but everything else is pretty much communist.

[ercchry]

EDIT: ^^ and in conclusion, you have not proved my post wrong and it is not a pure commi system


Originally posted by 01RedDX


There is no such thing as a "pure" capitalist system either. The closest thing to it is America, and there is plenty of poverty and political upheaval there...

yeah k?

so first thing is that still doesnt matter, there is no perfect system out there, in reality there will never ever be one

the thing is for people to have the "extras" in live there must be poor people to offset that, and it will always be that way

and capitalism is set up so there is poor people, supply and demand, if there is no poor people the whole concept wouldnt work

so in conclusion, be happy that you live in a great country and have enough capital to have some of the "good things" in life

[suen17]

The only reason why they are slowly converting to capitalism is because pressure from other countries mainly the states, other wise i think they would still be completely communist, and I think that they would be much better off in a pure communist system rather than the hybrid

[ercchry]

Originally posted by suen17
The only reason why they are slowly converting to capitalism is because pressure from other countries mainly the states, other wise i think they would still be completely communist, and I think that they would be much better off in a pure communist system rather than the hybrid

yeah and you are smarter than all of those world leader? (well you cant count bush in there with the smart people)

the chinese gov covered up so much crazy shit that went on during thoses years of a pure commi system and they are finally starting to open there doors to the rest of the world, and people over there now have a few more rights then they use too

[01RedDX]

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[ercchry]

Originally posted by 01RedDX


yeah k



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_%28PPP%29_%282005%29

China is number 2.

Canada is number 13.

Peace.

yeah so that further proves the point that the capitalist system that is being fused into the old commi system is making live in china much better than it was 50 years ago, hell even 20 years ago

[01RedDX]

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[suen17]

Originally posted by ercchry


yeah so that further proves the point that the capitalist system that is being fused into the old commi system is making live in china much better than it was 50 years ago, hell even 20 years ago

Point is, if China is #2, that means their commi system is clearly working better than a more democratic system (canada which is #13) Correct?

[ZEDGE]

Originally posted by suen17
The only reason why they are slowly converting to capitalism is because pressure from other countries mainly the states, other wise i think they would still be completely communist, and I think that they would be much better off in a pure communist system rather than the hybrid

Are you kidding? China is set to blow the hell up and become a huge world power. Their economy has the potential to be absolutley humungus. Same goes for India actually. If they stayed full blown commie, intraverted and isolated from the world, thier economy would be shit. :D

[suen17]

Originally posted by ZEDGE


Are you kidding? China is set to blow the hell up and become a huge world power. Their economy has the potential to be absolutley humungus. Same goes for India actually. If they stayed full blown commie, intraverted and isolated from the world, thier economy would be shit. :D

THats not true, look at Stalin... He was full out commy dictatorship, and in 10-15 years (not sure exact years) he pulled russia out from shit economy to a super powerand one of the most industrialised nations of its time. He was pretty much the definition of communism.

[ZEDGE]

Originally posted by suen17


THats not true, look at Stalin... He was full out commy dictatorship, and in 10-15 years (not sure exact years) he pulled russia out from shit economy to a super powerand one of the most industrialised nations of its time. He was pretty much the definition of communism.

I dont think that would work as well in todays world. We are becoming a global village. To be isolated from the world would be suicide.. look how that is working forl N. Korea .. :rofl:

Sure they have nukes.. but their buildings and infrastructure are crumbing around them, and half the population is starving on the streets.

[01RedDX]

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[ercchry]

Originally posted by suen17


Point is, if China is #2, that means their commi system is clearly working better than a more democratic system (canada which is #13) Correct?

no it does not work that way, stop by your local institute of higher learning and take a few econ and poli sci classes then come back to this thread

check this out

between 1990 and 2004 the increase of money per person for canada is 1.67 and china is 4.52 so that shows that since china has started adding capitalist properties to there system they have increase the money per person 2.7 times faster than we have


as well to 01RedDX point of china being #2 in the world for gdp ppp, i dont really can too much about that since our money per person in 04 was over 31k and china's was just shy of 6k

you see 01RedDX's arguement was that there spending power was greater than ours right? yeah in there own country maybe, but you see the world now a days is all about being international, and how the hell can you do that if when you go to import something you have about 24k less than high income countries?

oh and linky

http://earthtrends.wri.org/text/economics-business/variable-225.html

[ZEDGE]

Originally posted by 01RedDX


Actually, I've been referring to their social system this whole time, so I should clear this up. Only their social system is communist, not their economy.

The Chinese economy is essentially capitalist with heavy state involvement.

Communism really only exists as a social system in China. It is the only social system that can work. If anyone has an idea for how democracy can occur in China, I'd love to hear it.

Free eggroll with every vote? ;)

Its is an evolving social system though, people are being given more freedoms and opportunities than in the past.

[ercchry]

Originally posted by 01RedDX


Actually, I've been referring to their social system this whole time, so I should clear this up. Only their social system is communist, not their economy.

The Chinese economy is essentially capitalist with heavy state involvement.

Communism really only exists as a social system in China and it is the only social system that works for them. If anyone has an idea for how democracy can occur in China, I'd love to hear it.

ture but you have to realized how close they two are to each other, one will effect the other

[ercchry]

Originally posted by suen17


THats not true, look at Stalin... He was full out commy dictatorship, and in 10-15 years (not sure exact years) he pulled russia out from shit economy to a super powerand one of the most industrialised nations of its time. He was pretty much the definition of communism.

just go look up some death totals (well estimates) for that time frame then tell me that it was still a good idea

hell you kill off that many people and you will have a much higher over all amount of money per person :nut:

[01RedDX]

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[ercchry]

Originally posted by 01RedDX
Also works for 1.3 billion people in China. It is in fact, the only system that will work over there.



Originally posted by 01RedDX


Yes, one of the highest rates of industrialization and economic growth ever achieved... but at what cost?

ahh you have come so far


:thumbsup:

[suen17]

Originally posted by 01RedDX


Yes, one of the highest rates of industrialization and economic growth ever achieved... but at what cost?

1.3 billion, im sure they have 20 million to spare. A very small price to pay to achieve that kind of growth. Helps deal with population control at the same time, win win situation

[ercchry]

Originally posted by suen17


1.3 billion, im sure they have 20 million to spare. A very small price to pay to achieve that kind of growth. Helps deal with population control at the same time, win win situation

please stay in school, because right now i dont think you will make it in life

[kertejud]

Originally posted by 01RedDX
Also works for 1.3 billion people in China. It is in fact, the only system that will work over there.

Of course, you can't expect that many people to think for themselves, especially those damn Tibetans.

[hjr]

you guys are all stupid. the situation is drastically more complex than you try to make it out to be

[JAYMEZ]

Originally posted by suen17


1.3 billion, im sure they have 20 million to spare. A very small price to pay to achieve that kind of growth. Helps deal with population control at the same time, win win situation


Wow , 20 million to spare? Thats like killing everyone in Australia... Please do not become a leader.

[01RedDX]

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[thrasher22]

Originally posted by suen17


THats not true, look at Stalin... He was full out commy dictatorship, and in 10-15 years (not sure exact years) he pulled russia out from shit economy to a super powerand one of the most industrialised nations of its time. He was pretty much the definition of communism.

I think you're thinking of Lenin, he's the one that industralized the country and got it on track to being a world power.
Stalin took over after he died, put all the money in military and starved the country. He was responsible for the deaths of tens of millions. He was the definition of facism, not communism.

[death_rabbits]

Originally posted by hjr
you guys are all stupid. the situation is drastically more complex than you try to make it out to be

I know, it's blatantly obvious none of them know what they are talking about. Here's a brief lesson.

China was economically communist up until the late 60's when they started to shift towards free market. Under the communist regime the economy was centralized and controlled by the government. All economic processes were controlled and organized by the government. They had adopted economic strategies based towards heavy industry in hopes too boost their economy to a level matching that of the west. This failed horribly, and there was widespread famine across China.

When China's leaders came to the realization that communism wasn't working they couldn't just say that, or they would have been overthrown. They also couldn't keep doing what they were doing or being overthrown was also inevitable. They instead instituted a dual track system where they had a communist track based on their old ways, and a free market track which is the route they wanted to take in the future. They ran these tracks simultaneously, continueing to run large state owned operations, while selling some of the small to medium sized ones to start creating a free market system that could co-exist with the old communist one. Slowly over time they have been shutting down the communist track, and opening up the free market track more and more.

Now China is a lot more free market than they are communist. Their prices are determined by the market. They have liberalized their financial and export markets (though their import one is still highly controlled), and they have shifted towards regulation over central control. They are now just about as free market as anyone.

The secret to China's success is purely because of their shift to free market. Communism is an oversimplified ideal which is not feasible. This is different from Free Market which is a benchmark which we realize does not exist, but use to compare to real life so we can understand how markets actually perform and how we can manipulate them. Furhtermore just because the country is growing at a rapid rate doesn't mean the people living in it a bathing in riches. There is still huge disparity in the country, and they are by no means a communist Utopia. They are not communist at all really, they just keep that title so they don't have to publicly admit their mistakes.

Sorry to rant again, but all of you seemed like idiots, so i wanted to put forth a bit of actual information instead of a bunch of half assed heresay. I'm surprised with all the Asian people on this forum that none of you seem to have any idea of how China is run.

[01RedDX]

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[kertejud]

Originally posted by 01RedDX


what does that mean? Stalinist purges had nothing to do with communism in China :nut:

Its kind of unfair to compare Stalin's purges with Mao's. The latter had so many more people to choose from. And lets face it, is it really fair to fight a Buddhist?

[ercchry]

Originally posted by 01RedDX


You just basically paraphrased what several people have already said here... and since they are all idiots....

yeah i was gonna say...

really that whole thing he wrote only had more detail but followed the same lines that i was trying to follow, im sorry that i didnt cite sources and find dates and other things

[01RedDX]

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[kertejud]

Originally posted by 01RedDX
OK since you are such a proponent of western style socio-economic systems, I guess you need a brief history lesson. First, none of the eastern nations had the unique advantage of using centuries of slavery to build their empire.

Of course they did, Russia had a pretty ruthless serfdom for several hundred years before communism came about, andeven then the conditions for most workers weren't much better.


Second, they didn't have the luxury of conveniently exterminating a race of Natives to take over their land.

Well, not a race of Natives, but they had no problem exterminating races of Ukranians, Lithuanians, Kazak's, Chechnyans etc.


Third, systematic oppression of races in America was second to none.

Well that may be, but then why do so many immigrants continue to go there after smuggling themselves out of communist heartlands?


Gee, I wonder how far ahead you can get when you don't have to pay people for their work.

Pretty far, communists know this better than anyone. Well they may have gotten paid something, but I would say the threat of harsh imprisonment and even death are also strong motivators.


st wanted to bring that up since you seem to want to talk about who killed more people and stuff. ;) I guess the killings you are defending were more "righteous" :eek:

Well, Western nations have definitely done their fair share of killing and extermination, but they centuries to do it, communism has managed to keep up after less than 100 years by replacing one ruling class that exploited workers with another.

[barbarian]

In a communist system, there would be no reason to have more than one kind of car for the proles to drive.
http://img258.imageshack.us/img258/8951/ladagm5.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

[PraviYugosloven]

OK first off ive pretty much read everything about the manifesto, and ill tell you something, first off North America and all of its allies will say its evil, and communist are devils ONLY because they want their government to prevail, and thus keep them rich. While communists want justice, there is no such thing as true fair justice in the US or even Canada for that matter. Now what the Russians, and Chinease did is not communisim, true communism is impossible, and thus has never occured so I would just like all those that think Marx is stupid to shut the hell up. Marx invented a brilliant governmental system, however its you and me who are giving it a bad rep. because all people are greedy to a certain extent, and for a TRUE communist government to function properly there can be no such thing. If America truly cared about all of its people, and about justice, and equality, than they would be a TRUE communist government.

[kertejud]

Originally posted by PraviYugosloven
Now what the Russians, and Chinease did is not communisim, true communism is impossible, and thus has never occured so I would just like all those that think Marx is stupid to shut the hell up. Marx invented a brilliant governmental system, however its you and me who are giving it a bad rep. because all people are greedy to a certain extent, and for a TRUE communist government to function properly there can be no such thing. If America truly cared about all of its people, and about justice, and equality, than they would be a TRUE communist government.

How can something that is impossible to attain be a brilliant governmental system?

Marx isn't exactly stupid, but when a guy writes something as radical as the Manifesto, and then spends his remaining years writing books outlining the flaws and impractical ideals and ways to alter them to a more achievable system, 'brilliant' isn't exactly the word that comes to mind.

And why would it be smart for America to attempt to form a government system that is impossible to attain? Seems kind of futile, no?

[hjr]

Originally posted by 01RedDX

You just basically paraphrased what several people have already said here... and since they are all idiots.... haha, you are an idiot. you must be angry that mr.rabbits articulated quite eloquently what you seem to think you know, but couldnt spit out in a coherent manner, despite your numerous single line posts.

[GTS Jeff]

Originally posted by suen17
The only reason why they are slowly converting to capitalism is because pressure from other countries mainly the states, other wise i think they would still be completely communist, and I think that they would be much better off in a pure communist system rather than the hybrid Mainlander.

[Lexxan]

Originally posted by suen17


Point is, if China is #2, that means their commi system is clearly working better than a more democratic system (canada which is #13) Correct?

lol look up what GDP means and look at the populations of the two countries.

[01RedDX]

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[hjr]

haha, nice find homie, clearly you single lined replies have bested me

[01RedDX]

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[codetrap]

Are we sure it's working?

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/article380101.ece