Supercharged vs. Turbocharged

[aiy_yah]

This may be long, but I am looking for opinions.

I was initially looking to put in an Integra LS engine into my Civic hatch and try to turbo it. My buddy in Vancouver was trying to source an engine out there as he was going to do the swap for me. However, I talked to him last night and found out that ICBC decided to keep all written off cars now instead of sending them to the wreckers, meaning that pickings are scarce for engines. He can still get that engine fairly cheaply (about $2,000 - 2,500 for the engine and transmission), but it would be a '92.

He told me that a supercharged (Jackson Racing) '98 Civic Si engine is available (don't know for how long as there are a couple of other people looking at it) for $4,500. This includes the engine, supercharger kit, headers (didn't find out what brand), transmission, axles. The whole shebang is put together. He also had 2 suggestions to make this set up faster. Either attach a 50-shot of nitrous or add a supercharger high boost kit with a water (?) intercooler. Both would be about $1,000 (he works for a shop in Richmond, so he could get things cheaper).

Now here is the questions part.
1. Has anyone had any experience (driven one, seen one at a track, raced one) with a supercharged Si engine?
2. Considering that I have about $6,000 saved only, which would you get? I would most likely have to go into debt to get the turbo charged LS.
3. The LS is older and would require some tuning, which my buddy says could cost up to $1,000. Any one with experience doing engine swaps with older engines? Any problems?
4. Would the supercharged Si be worth it in terms of performance and bang for the buck? I looked it up on the Jackson Racing web site and, assuming it is the Canadian Si it would be the US Ex (?), a supercharged Si would get 139.3 hp to the wheels and 120 lbs of torque with headers and intake.
5. Any CONSTRUCTIVE comments or suggestions would be appreciated.

[Dirty_SOHC]

Originally posted by aiy_yah
a supercharged Si would get 139.3 hp to the wheels and 120 lbs of torque with headers and intake.
5. Any CONSTRUCTIVE comments or suggestions would be appreciated.

on turbo that engine you can make 200 WHP and 165 torque safely, I have seen it in person.:thumbsup:

[syeve]

dont do any of that...if its a daily driver, its VERY difficult to turbo a honda motor and maintain reliablity...with 6k its an easy choice...b18c5...that motor will put you into the 14's and still maintain a high degree of reliability...

[littledan]

i would go with the ls engine. maybe try finding one in alberta, may be cheaper?:dunno: ... but the ls is a solid platform and even if you don't turbocharge it in the next while, you will still have 140HP at the flywheel compared to 106?? not sure on the hb specs. and you can reliably turbo the ls as the compression is lower than a gsr or r engine, just keep the boost to 7 psi or so and make sure you take care of the engine management. let us know how things turn out, i was once seriously considering a b18b turbo in an eg

[redx2nv]

b20b block, b18c head, ys1 tranny, ats fd set(or jdm fd), ctr cams(or jun or toda if you have the $$$$). That would be a screamer of a car...

[aiy_yah]

Originally posted by syeve
dont do any of that...if its a daily driver, its VERY difficult to turbo a honda motor and maintain reliablity...with 6k its an easy choice...b18c5...that motor will put you into the 14's and still maintain a high degree of reliability...

Yes, it is an every day driver, so there is something else to be considered. The B18C5 would be nice, but is more like $6,500 to $7,000 for the engine alone. I still have to pay for install and most likely other miscellaneous parts.
Also, I do believe that a supercharged engine is fairly reliable, especially Jackson Racing. With the high boost kit and intercooler, I should get about 160hp to the wheels and my buddy can port the header. The B18C5 is probably about 170 to the wheels.

[Ben]

Originally posted by aiy_yah


The B18C5 is probably about 170 to the wheels.


actually it was only 145 as seen at several dyno events here in town.

[rage2]

I love how people think s/c is more reliable than turbos. The key is in the tuning. First off, before you get anything, invest in a standalone system, AEM or Hondata are the popular and easily installed plug and play systems. Spending that $1k-$2k initially and tuning the car properly will ensure that you save $4k down the block with a blown motor cuz the FMU didn't give a proper a/f curve and the timing was way too advanced.

An improperly tuned S/C setup will blowup just like an improperly tuned turbo setup.

[aiy_yah]

Originally posted by littledan
i would go with the ls engine. maybe try finding one in alberta, may be cheaper?:dunno: ... but the ls is a solid platform and even if you don't turbocharge it in the next while, you will still have 140HP at the flywheel compared to 106?? not sure on the hb specs. and you can reliably turbo the ls as the compression is lower than a gsr or r engine, just keep the boost to 7 psi or so and make sure you take care of the engine management. let us know how things turn out, i was once seriously considering a b18b turbo in an eg

Do you know of any places in Calgary? The only place I know of is Yoko, just off Edmonton Trail. I got some pricing from them, but they import their engines in from Japan and it would take around a month. Also, they cannot say what year the enigne is until they get it. My buddy is a little weary of this option as you may not get all the parts you need, for example, the harness.
I do have decisions to make, and I will post pictures of what is done, if it ever does.

[aiy_yah]

Originally posted by redx2nv
b20b block, b18c head, ys1 tranny, ats fd set(or jdm fd), ctr cams(or jun or toda if you have the $$$$). That would be a screamer of a car...

A little concerned about "frankenstein" engines. Sure they are fast as a mutha, but reliability is an issue. Also, I think it would end up costing more than the LS turbo.

[aiy_yah]

Originally posted by Ben



actually it was only 145 as seen at several dyno events here in town.

Yeah, I have a friend who has a 2001 ITR and he said it dynoed at 150 to the wheels. However, the numbers I posted in my original post was from the Jackson Racing web page and I'll bet that they are at sea level, so I was trying to compare apples to apples, so to speak.

[rage2]

Oh yea, before you make any decisions, check out Dirty_SOHC's Si Hatch. Stock motor, Hondata, turbo @ 8.5psi. It'll make you think twice before looking for a swap :). Nearly 200whp, and that's on a Mustang Dyno! (around 220whp on a dynojet is my guess).

[B17a]

Originally posted by rage2
I love how people think s/c is more reliable than turbos. The key is in the tuning. First off, before you get anything, invest in a standalone system, AEM or Hondata are the popular and easily installed plug and play systems. Spending that $1k-$2k initially and tuning the car properly will ensure that you save $4k down the block with a blown motor cuz the FMU didn't give a proper a/f curve and the timing was way too advanced.

An improperly tuned S/C setup will blowup just like an improperly tuned turbo setup.

Haven't previous S/C Honda's in Calgary had problems? I remember Max Boost saying he had tons of problems mainly on the really cold winter days.

[aiy_yah]

Originally posted by rage2
I love how people think s/c is more reliable than turbos. The key is in the tuning. First off, before you get anything, invest in a standalone system, AEM or Hondata are the popular and easily installed plug and play systems. Spending that $1k-$2k initially and tuning the car properly will ensure that you save $4k down the block with a blown motor cuz the FMU didn't give a proper a/f curve and the timing was way too advanced.

An improperly tuned S/C setup will blowup just like an improperly tuned turbo setup.

Understood. My buddy has done supercharged engines before (he put a supercharged MR2 engine into his brother's 87 Corolla GT-S and that car rapes S2000's), so I would believe that he could properly tune the engine. Also, he knows the guy that is selling the s/c engine and has seen that guy's car in action. He says the engine is in really good running condition. It's a '98 with less than 100,000 km on it.

[Dirty_SOHC]

Originally posted by rage2
Oh yea, before you make any decisions, check out Dirty_SOHC's Si Hatch. Stock motor, Hondata, turbo @ 8.5psi. It'll make you think twice before looking for a swap :). Nearly 200whp, and that's on a Mustang Dyno! (around 220whp on a dynojet is my guess).

I sense fear in this one......

[rage2]

Originally posted by Dirty_SOHC
I sense fear in this one......
No fear... ready to take on all challengers! You should take on Toma's Omni... I think it'll be a very close race.

Remind me not to help you tune when you crank up the boost :rofl:

[Dirty_SOHC]

Originally posted by rage2

No fear... ready to take on all challengers! You should take on Toma's Omni... I think it'll be a very close race.


How about you drive the EK and challenge the Omni, since I'm apparantley missing the mad skills:clap:

[rage2]

I'm a fat ass. Legendboy should run the car on Friday. Or get sexualbanana, he ran awesome times in B18C's S/C Teg seeing as he weighs what, 80lbs???

[legendboy]

Originally posted by rage2
I'm a fat ass. Legendboy should run the car on Friday. Or get sexualbanana, he ran awesome times in B18C's S/C Teg seeing as he weighs what, 80lbs???


haha Good idea!

[LancerShelby]

I been sensing that it's not cheap to go fast in an import. $2500 and up for just the motor is retarded. Unless you have some building skills and support, your SOL for saving $$. But I can see that having a 13 second Prelude, would be very cool.

[Ben]

Originally posted by LancerShelby
I been sensing that it's not cheap to go fast in an import. $2500 and up for just the motor is retarded. Unless you have some building skills and support, your SOL for saving $$. But I can see that having a 13 second Prelude, would be very cool. well hey man, there is no replacement for disp...er...I'll just hold off on that can...

[aiy_yah]

Originally posted by B17a


Haven't previous S/C Honda's in Calgary had problems? I remember Max Boost saying he had tons of problems mainly on the really cold winter days.

What kind of problems? Not starting? Not boosting?

[aiy_yah]

Originally posted by LancerShelby
I been sensing that it's not cheap to go fast in an import. $2500 and up for just the motor is retarded. Unless you have some building skills and support, your SOL for saving $$. But I can see that having a 13 second Prelude, would be very cool.

My buddy has the skill. Also, I want to save up a down payment for a house, so I need to get decently fast for a fair price.