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HIDStop
06-24-2007, 04:07 AM
In the market for a new (ish) vehicle - and I am looking to see if anyone has experience with the following vehicles:

2000-2003 M5
2003-2006 E55 AMG
2007 E63 AMG

As you might be able to tell, I am in the market for a 'performance' sedan.
I would be a little concerned with supercharger malfunctions on the E55, but love the numbers that it can put out.

The M would be the most economical, the E55 second, and last would be the E63- which I can pick up for a fair bit under MSRP with a few km's on it.

If anyone has experience with these vehicles, and/or knows of any problems, or benefits of ownership - please chime in and let me know!

Thanks
:)

Edit: I'm not necessarily looking for the vehicle with the most power, or the newest vehicle. I am just trying to weigh out the vehicle with the most value.

E36M3
06-24-2007, 04:56 AM
All three are great cars. I wouldn't be too worried about the supercharger issue.. I had a car with the same motor and never had any issues.

The E63 has fantastic, BMW like throttle response, but the supercharged V8 in the E55 has thrust like a space shuttle. Compared to the other two, the M5 feels relatively underpowered and would definitely show its age, but I think it would be hard to beat the value.

The handling of the M5 is world class, as is the braking. I also think it has a certain understated elegance.

Canmorite
06-24-2007, 02:52 PM
In terms of handling the M5 would be your best bet.

However, the torque in the E63 and E55 is unmatchable. I've driven a few newer E55's and it was awesome. The supercharger whine is something you won't find an the E63, but the power is higher.

M5: 3957 lbs
Horsepower: 394 bhp
Torque: 369 lb-ft

E63: 4,057 lbs
Horsepower:514 bhp
Torque:465 lb-ft

E55: 4,237 lbs
Horsepower:469 bhp
Torque:516 lb-ft

Have you considered a CLS55/63 too? The lines are so sleek.

LongCity
06-24-2007, 02:59 PM
The M5 is a V8 not a V10 and it has 394HP not 507.

Canmorite
06-24-2007, 03:14 PM
Originally posted by LongCity
The M5 is a V8 not a V10 and it has 394HP not 507.

I thought he was talking about the E60, and I screwed it up. Editied for clarity.

crazedmodder
06-24-2007, 03:21 PM
Why aren't you looking at the new M5s BTW? Cost too much? I would say go for the M5, better handling then the Mercs for sure but not as fast. Would you actually use the extra speed anyways? The Mercs look a lot bigger than that gen M5 and I'm guessing they are a bit larger inside but IMO even though they're beautiful they look a bit boaty compared to the M5. I say the M5 is the best choice since
A) It's plenty fast enough
B) I'm guessing you can get it for quite a bit cheaper
C) Insurance? Less I would hope (but I'm not sure)
D) Smaller and less frequent speeding tickets :burnout:
E) Handles well

I mean, the E class is nice and all but it just has too big of a . . . presence (it looks big). If you really really really need to, just get a supercharger installed afterwards :nut:

ZorroAMG
06-24-2007, 03:40 PM
Originally posted by crazedmodder
Why aren't you looking at the new M5s BTW? Cost too much? I would say go for the M5, better handling then the Mercs for sure but not as fast. Would you actually use the extra speed anyways? The Mercs look a lot bigger than that gen M5 and I'm guessing they are a bit larger inside but IMO even though they're beautiful they look a bit boaty compared to the M5. I say the M5 is the best choice since
A) It's plenty fast enough
B) I'm guessing you can get it for quite a bit cheaper
C) Insurance? Less I would hope (but I'm not sure)
D) Smaller and less frequent speeding tickets :burnout:
E) Handles well

I mean, the E class is nice and all but it just has too big of a . . . presence (it looks big). If you really really really need to, just get a supercharger installed afterwards :nut:

LMAO....insurance? Like that's an issue when you buy these cars
Smaller? Therefore less speeding tickets? WTF, your logic fails you.

the w211 isn't boat-ier or bigger than the 5er....

If you reallly really need to, supercharge the E63 and leave ALL m5's in the dust....

LOL





I agree with E36M3, you will find the E39 M5 dated when comparing to both E AMG's and the power is NOTHING like them..

It comes down to getting the right E55 that is a little more mod friendly or getting the E63, the big bad, new toy, with a new ECU, resonator delete and have a bad-ass car...

Stay away from 03 W211's though...I've heard issues with the first year of it...

Join mymbonline.com and mbworld.org for fun, informative MB communities...

HIDStop
06-24-2007, 05:36 PM
Thanks for the informative replies!

Canmorite - I cant believe I forgot to put in the CLS, its one of my all time favorite MB.

Please correct me if I am wrong - the CLS 63 is a new '08 model, is that correct? Which would mean I would need to purchase brand new - and at MSRP. High $120's I believe for the 63 - and purchasing brand new is something I would like to pass on if possible, as I would like to miss that immediate 'off-the-lot-' depreciation if possible. ;)
Also - at that price, the CLS 63 would be a bit out of my range for now. Even if I were to go with a E63 AMG, it would be an 07 with a few kms on it (<20,000).

CLS55 AMG: lbs
Horsepower: 469 bhp
Torque: 516 lb-ft

Price wise, I now see that the CLK 55 would fall between the E55 and the E63.

E36M3 - Thanks for the reply! I have driven the M5 on numerous occasions, and do absolutely love the handling.

I do believe that I would be able to pick up a '05+ M5 for less than a E63 AMG, but I picked the 01-03 M5 instead - as I have always been a huge fan of the E39 M, and am not 100% sold on the new M styling.

Zorro - thanks for the tip on the '03 W211 :) .

Xtrema
06-24-2007, 10:20 PM
Go get one used from US of A.

http://www.autotrader.com/fyc/vdp.jsp?car_id=220957801&dealer_id=53500992&car_year=2006&num_records=25&model=CLS500&make3=&make2=MB&start_year=1981&engine=&keywordsrep=&keywordsfyc=&certified=&fuel=&body_code=0&search_type=both&distance=100&marketZipError=false&model2=CLS55AMG&search_lang=en&make=MB&color=&page_location=findacar%3A%3Aispsearchform&min_price=&drive=&default_sort=priceDESC&max_mileage=&style_flag=1&sort_type=priceASC&address=85002&advanced=&end_year=2008&transmission=&doors=&max_price=&cardist=8

HIDStop
06-24-2007, 10:28 PM
Originally posted by Xtrema
Go get one used from US of A.

http://www.autotrader.com/fyc/vdp.jsp?car_id=220957801&amp;dealer_id=53500992&amp;car_year=2006&amp;num_records=25&amp;model=CLS500&amp;make3=&amp;make2=MB&amp;start_year=1981&amp;engine=&amp;keywordsrep=&amp;keywordsfyc=&amp;certified=&amp;fuel=&amp;body_code=0&amp;search_type=both&amp;distance=100&amp;marketZipError=false&amp;model2=CLS55AMG&amp;search_lang=en&amp;make=MB&amp;color=&amp;page_location=findacar%3A%3Aispsearchform&amp;min_price=&amp;drive=&amp;default_sort=priceDESC&amp;max_mileage=&amp;style_flag=1&amp;sort_type=priceASC&amp;address=85002&amp;advanced=&amp;end_year=2008&amp;transmission=&amp;doors=&amp;max_price=&amp;cardist=8

That's definitely a possibility.
Thanks for the link, that CLS500 is beautiful! My only problem is that I'm bent on a AMG!

rage2
06-24-2007, 11:25 PM
Good luck trying to import a MB from the US.

HIDStop
06-24-2007, 11:26 PM
Originally posted by rage2
Good luck trying to import a MB from the US.

Good to know! What's the deal with trying to import a MB from the States?

tentacles
06-25-2007, 12:44 AM
Check the RIV list. any MB imported from the US needs to have a certification letter from MB Canada saying that it complies with Canadian safety regulations.

You basically have to get it from the dealer, who I'm sure are very happy that you decided you were too good for them and bought from the US. Let's just say it probably won't be free.

I believe the process starts with you paying them to fly a tech in from Vancouver to do the initial inspection, and then it gets worse from there. :thumbsup:

shay
06-25-2007, 01:03 AM
i would say the m5 for sure cause its manual.
ps if u are looking for one my dads selling his 2002 let me know.

rage2
06-25-2007, 01:36 AM
Originally posted by tentacles
Check the RIV list. any MB imported from the US needs to have a certification letter from MB Canada saying that it complies with Canadian safety regulations.

You basically have to get it from the dealer, who I'm sure are very happy that you decided you were too good for them and bought from the US. Let's just say it probably won't be free.

I believe the process starts with you paying them to fly a tech in from Vancouver to do the initial inspection, and then it gets worse from there. :thumbsup:
haha it's not THAT bad, but it's painful.

Basically, you find a US car. Get the VIN. Fax the info to MB Canada (nothing to do with dealerships). They'll tell you if the car is admissable (with a list of mods you need done after import that's $4000-12000 depending on model and year). That process takes a long ass time. By the time u get the info, the car's already sold. Of course you can buy the car first and pray that it's OK, but if it's not admissable (such as all SLKs), you're SOL and you'll have to sell the car in the states.

MB does midyear changes too, so some cars will be allowed in based on month of production. Also, some factory (not port or dealer) installed options will make the car inadmissable.

Loads of fun! haha

tentacles
06-25-2007, 07:57 AM
with a list of mods you need done after import that's $4000-12000 depending on model and year

Yeah, that's what I meant, sorry. Basically the car is only "admissible" after the DEALER does all the mods, and sign off on it. Not like you could buy a bumper off ebay and screw it on yourself or something.

Mitsu3000gt
06-25-2007, 08:16 AM
I've driven the M5 and E55. The M5 feels smaller than it is, handles/brakes very well. It was deceptively fast, but nothing like the E55. The E55 was crazy fast but the whole experience was dampened by the fact it was an automatic. It was a reasonably good automatic but still not as fast, smooth, or responsive as BMW's automatics on their regular cars such as the 540. If the E55 had a more responsive automatic I would have liked it significantly better. It is possible that it was an adaptive automatic, and the previous driver drove it like a granny, but I would think in a half an hour test drive that would change. Perhaps someone can correct me if I am wrong here. Also keep in mind, if you buy the new E63, that in a 2-3 years it will depreciate about as much as a E39 M5 would cost you. That's probably not an big deal for you though if you can swing a $120,000 car. Good luck with your choice, you really can't go wrong in this class of car however I would add the Audi RS6 to the roster unless you have purposely left it out for some reason. When top gear tested the M5/RS6/E55 they picked the RS6 - hands down the nicest interior, AWD, and plenty of power with the twin turbo V8. Very minimal performance difference between the RS6 and E55; the seat of your pants would not be able to tell the difference. That's the car I'd be after in this segment for sure. You can't get them from the states, but they were sold in Canada in 2003 only and will run you $70,000-$90,000.

rage2
06-25-2007, 08:25 AM
^^^ Correcting you cuz you're wrong ;).

Ya, the E55's auto is way faster than BMW autos. Even the new 335i turbo's auto tranny is slower than the E55's. The E63's auto is even better... it's as fast as the SMG in S6 mode hehe.

Mitsu3000gt
06-25-2007, 08:37 AM
Originally posted by rage2
^^^ Correcting you cuz you're wrong ;).

Ya, the E55's auto is way faster than BMW autos. Even the new 335i turbo's auto tranny is slower than the E55's. The E63's auto is even better... it's as fast as the SMG in S6 mode hehe.

Yeah, I had always read that the AMG autos were crazy fast - thats why I asked if I was right or not.

So then I guess the person before me just drove it like a granny? I needed to really put my foot in it to make it downshift, and in the BMW in "S" mode, all I need to do is curl my toes and it downshifts. As far as the actual speed of shifting it was as fast as any other, if not faster. In the particular example I drove, I just thought I was doing more than I should have to to make it downshift.

Spatz
06-25-2007, 10:17 AM
2003-2006 E55 AMG

my step dad HAD one its garbage, do not get it, very disappointing car.

rage2
06-25-2007, 10:21 AM
Originally posted by Mitsu3000gt
Yeah, I had always read that the AMG autos were crazy fast - thats why I asked if I was right or not.

So then I guess the person before me just drove it like a granny? I needed to really put my foot in it to make it downshift, and in the BMW in &quot;S&quot; mode, all I need to do is curl my toes and it downshifts. As far as the actual speed of shifting it was as fast as any other, if not faster. In the particular example I drove, I just thought I was doing more than I should have to to make it downshift.
Most likely. Why didn't you just use the +/- and choose your own gears?

But ya, if the car was granny driven, you'll pretty much have to step down to the kickdown for it to downshift. It learns fairly quick tho... at the track it takes about a lap for the tranny to always stay about 3500rpm, even under braking.

Mitsu3000gt
06-25-2007, 11:00 AM
Originally posted by rage2

Most likely. Why didn't you just use the +/- and choose your own gears?

But ya, if the car was granny driven, you'll pretty much have to step down to the kickdown for it to downshift. It learns fairly quick tho... at the track it takes about a lap for the tranny to always stay about 3500rpm, even under braking.

That is most likely what the issue was, because I wasn't driving the piss off of it for the whole test drive either, so the computer was probably a little confused. I did notice it held the RPM's even when I let off the gas, which was good.

I found the +/- shifting to be slow. The shifting itself was very quick, but there was significant lag between my input and the execution of the actual shift so I preferred to just leave it in full auto. I haven't driven many cars I don't think that had a really fast acting manu-matic....again, the actual shifts are quicker than most people could do manually but its the lag between the input and the execution of the shift. Maybe there was just something wrong with the car I drove? I don't really know.

Regardless, I absolutely loved the power. I believe it is the fastest/most powerful car I have ever driven, and you get all that with 4 doors and plenty of practicality.

ZorroAMG
06-25-2007, 11:08 AM
Originally posted by Spatz
2003-2006 E55 AMG

my step dad HAD one its garbage, do not get it, very disappointing car.

LMAO

Care to say why, or do you not know cause everything is second-hand knowledge...

Mitsu3000gt
06-25-2007, 11:13 AM
Originally posted by Spatz
2003-2006 E55 AMG

my step dad HAD one its garbage, do not get it, very disappointing car.

Was it too fast? Was it too practical? Did it have too many features? was it too safe? or maybe it looked too good?

You need to say why.

E36M3
06-25-2007, 11:15 AM
Don't forget too good of a value. Could have bought a Maserati Quattroporte for twice as much and gotten a much worse car.


Originally posted by Mitsu3000gt


Was it too fast? Was it too practical? Did it have too many features? was it too safe? or maybe it looked too good?

You need to say why.

ZorroAMG
06-25-2007, 11:25 AM
hahahaaha

He was probably never allowed to drive his step-dad's car so when he asked why, Daddy lied and said: "uh...cause it's garbage and a very disappointing car"

DayGlow
06-25-2007, 11:37 AM
Originally posted by Mitsu3000gt


That is most likely what the issue was, because I wasn't driving the piss off of it for the whole test drive either, so the computer was probably a little confused. I did notice it held the RPM's even when I let off the gas, which was good.

I found the +/- shifting to be slow. The shifting itself was very quick, but there was significant lag between my input and the execution of the actual shift so I preferred to just leave it in full auto. I haven't driven many cars I don't think that had a really fast acting manu-matic....again, the actual shifts are quicker than most people could do manually but its the lag between the input and the execution of the shift. Maybe there was just something wrong with the car I drove? I don't really know.

Regardless, I absolutely loved the power. I believe it is the fastest/most powerful car I have ever driven, and you get all that with 4 doors and plenty of practicality.

it appears that Glenmore Audi has one in the autotrader right now.

http://www.canadatrader.com/result/result.aspx?searchtype=adv&category=4000&mk=AUDI&md=RS6&pro=AB&type=province#

rage2
06-25-2007, 11:38 AM
Originally posted by Mitsu3000gt
I found the +/- shifting to be slow. The shifting itself was very quick, but there was significant lag between my input and the execution of the actual shift so I preferred to just leave it in full auto.
Ya, the 5 speeds had a quarter second lag from when you hit the button and when the shift occurs. The new 7 speed in the E63 fixes that... instant shifts.

Mitsu3000gt
06-25-2007, 11:49 AM
Originally posted by DayGlow


it appears that Glenmore Audi has one in the autotrader right now.

http://www.canadatrader.com/result/result.aspx?searchtype=adv&amp;category=4000&amp;mk=AUDI&amp;md=RS6&amp;pro=AB&amp;type=province#

Yup, I'll probably be checking it out this week. I think my dad made an appointment for a test drive. He's always wanted an RS6.

E36M3
06-25-2007, 12:12 PM
Resurrecting a really old thread, but a good discussion of the M5/E55/RS6 debate as well as some good commentary on the genre (and my review of an RS6):

http://forums.beyond.ca/st/1358/drove-an-audi-rs6-today/

HIDStop
06-25-2007, 12:32 PM
Wow, great tips and great thoughts.

Does anyone have direct expereince with a '63 AMG' vehicle? Rage2?

How did it rank vs. a 55 amg? *Preferably a E55*

me&you
06-25-2007, 12:45 PM
Originally posted by E36M3
Don't forget too good of a value. Could have bought a Maserati Quattroporte for twice as much and gotten a much worse car.


Again, you know this from first hand knowledge?

Soooo many things wrong with this that I'm not sure where to start. New car to new car, the QP is not twice as much as the E55/63... more like 40% more.

Worse car is VERY subjective and I hope you reply back with your personal drving impressions of both cars, not just what you've heard or read. Wait, you say you haven't driven a QP? OR an E55? That's shocking! Please, go drive both and let me know how much better the E55 is then...

rage2
06-25-2007, 12:52 PM
Originally posted by HIDStop
Wow, great tips and great thoughts.

Does anyone have direct expereince with a '63 AMG' vehicle? Rage2?

How did it rank vs. a 55 amg? *Preferably a E55*
I've driven the E63. Damn fun car... totally different beast than the E55.

The Pros... it's faster than the E55. The 7 speed auto is amazing, it closes the gap completely to BMW's SMG2/SMG3 with a level of smoothness and refinement that you can't have with a clutch. Way better use of traction since you don't have absurd amounts of TQ to work with.

The cons... $$$. It feels slower than the E55 even tho it's faster, downshifts are a tad slower than SMG because of TQ converter. Don't downshift mid corner at the track!

I would buy a 63 over a 55 anyday... much easier to control the power since it's so much more tractable.

rage2
06-25-2007, 12:53 PM
Originally posted by me&amp;you
Again, you know this from first hand knowledge?
E36M3 only speaks from first hand knowledge ;). Same goes for me if you're wondering.

me&you
06-25-2007, 05:23 PM
Originally posted by rage2

E36M3 only speaks from first hand knowledge ;). Same goes for me if you're wondering.

I figured you might! ;)

My apologies to E36M3 if I was out of line. I have thoroughly enjoyed any time I've been at the wheel of a QP, both the auto and the Duoselect. Just a difference of opinions, I guess.

HIDStop
06-25-2007, 05:46 PM
Thanks Rage. Also, thanks for the PM's.

It comes down to CLS vs. E class. I love the styling of both vehicles, both vehicles have the same power plant with identical power output, and they are at most $10,000 apart from each other.

I will be taking both for test drives back to back once the weather clears up this week.

I can see that a few board members have experience with the E55 - do any members have experience with both the E55 and the CLS55? Or, preferably - the E63 and the CLS63?
Rage2, E36M3?

Thanks again.

ZorroAMG
06-25-2007, 05:50 PM
One thing to check out (IF it's important to you) is the head room in the back of the CLS, I've heard from a couple of people that it's a little cramped and it may not be good if you plan to have a few clients or people in the back all the time.

I personally couldn't care less as I think the CLS has the nicest lines I've seen in a LONG time and I rarely have people riding in the back...

CLS55 ///AMG FTW!

Hakkola
06-25-2007, 06:20 PM
Originally posted at mbworld.org
The difference now is that to many, the 63 is not only slower than the 600 but also slower than the out going 55's. I understand that the 63 vs 55 is an arguable point but as weight increases in these larger cars, the difference will become more obvious. This to me explains why there is no NA SL63, or NA G63. MB/AMG has continued with the 55's versions of this car and plan to do so for the next several years.

Some people have argued that the 55 is actually faster than the 63.

http://www.mbworld.org/forums/showthread.php?t=196024

There's a lot of bickering in the thread though...

IMO, the CLS AMG is the way to go, my favourite car, great lines, and I find the head room alright, and I'm almost 6'2, it was a little cramped for headroom in the back, but I would take one over an E class.

Spatz
06-25-2007, 06:49 PM
Originally posted by Mitsu3000gt


Was it too fast? Was it too practical? Did it have too many features? was it too safe? or maybe it looked too good?

You need to say why.

sure why not, lots of little noises in the car, the transmission skipped, air conditioning vents didnt work properly, the sunroof was screwed up and the service was terrible at the dealership.

ZorroAMG
06-25-2007, 06:54 PM
That's his car specifically, not E55's in general

Spatz
06-25-2007, 06:54 PM
Originally posted by ZorroAMG
hahahaaha

He was probably never allowed to drive his step-dad's car so when he asked why, Daddy lied and said: &quot;uh...cause it's garbage and a very disappointing car&quot;

hes not my dad, i said step dad. i drove the car a few times. since you think so highly of the car why dont you go buy it its a kulu motor werks he traded it in for 50 000 when he paid 120 000 for it 3 years ago.

rage2
06-25-2007, 08:48 PM
Originally posted by HIDStop
I can see that a few board members have experience with the E55 - do any members have experience with both the E55 and the CLS55? Or, preferably - the E63 and the CLS63?
Rage2, E36M3?
I've only driven the CLS55 twice, and not really hard either... so I can't tell u how it handles. But for day to day driving and straight line speed, it feels like the E55.

The interior in the CLS55 is way nicer than the E, not to mention how sexy the car looks.

turbotrip
06-25-2007, 08:56 PM
hey, dont u think its gonna be a little tricky getting them to let u test drive some of these cars? especially if u have massari there with u haha ;)

HIDStop
06-25-2007, 09:05 PM
Haha. He definitely won't be there. Also, since my old car is sold and I am in need of a vehicle fairly quick - I would have no problem placing a deposit prior to a test drive.

E36M3
06-26-2007, 02:42 PM
I've driven the E55/E63 and the CLS55, all hard enough to get a feel. I prefer the 55 motor as it is more exciting to me. I've had both high strung cars and cars with lots of torque, and I feel like AMG excels at the high torque stuff.

Having said that, I don't think there is a significant difference in handling, etc. between the E and the CLS.

The CLS is a higher quality car as far as I can tell.. if you are thinking that you are getting a bulletproof car, my advice is to stay away from Mercedes, but overall they are pretty decent.

I have driven the E classes extensively though, and they are decent cars, and the speed is hard to match at any price. If you are willing to modify the car for more excitement, the 55 motors are a no brainer.


Originally posted by rage2

I've only driven the CLS55 twice, and not really hard either... so I can't tell u how it handles. But for day to day driving and straight line speed, it feels like the E55.

The interior in the CLS55 is way nicer than the E, not to mention how sexy the car looks.

mischief
06-26-2007, 04:20 PM
Originally posted by Spatz


hes not my dad, i said step dad. i drove the car a few times. since you think so highly of the car why dont you go buy it its a kulu motor werks he traded it in for 50 000 when he paid 120 000 for it 3 years ago.

Were you thinking he would have been insusceptible to car depreciation? The car will soon be 5 years old and a facelift of the current body has already occurred with the E63.

I love the look of the CLS, but for some reason when I sit in the backseat I find it a little cramped for head room. I'm only 5'11".

E36M3
06-26-2007, 05:08 PM
The funny part is that he questioned the Quattroporte being worse than the E55..

If anyone thinks Mercedes are unreliable, they need to try owning a Maserati. As for depreciation, I think the Maserati can beat just about anything on earth (in a bad way).


Originally posted by mischief


Were you thinking he would have been insusceptible to car depreciation? The car will soon be 5 years old and a facelift of the current body has already occurred with the E63.

I love the look of the CLS, but for some reason when I sit in the backseat I find it a little cramped for head room. I'm only 5'11&quot;.

ZorroAMG
06-26-2007, 06:06 PM
^ agreed 100%...Maserati loses HUGE.....nice cars, but meh....

Mercedes 55K motor....:thumbsup:

me&you
06-26-2007, 06:42 PM
Originally posted by E36M3
The funny part is that he questioned the Quattroporte being worse than the E55..

If anyone thinks Mercedes are unreliable, they need to try owning a Maserati. As for depreciation, I think the Maserati can beat just about anything on earth (in a bad way).



That was me that said the QP was not worse than the E55, but anyways...

ZorroAMG
06-26-2007, 06:56 PM
but anyways...it's still a false statement... :)

E36M3
06-26-2007, 06:58 PM
They are good looking cars, no doubt, and have beautiful interiors. The Ferrari-derived motor should theoretically be exciting, but isn't (at least ot me).

The shifting was awful, the handling was nothing magical, and the brakes were not fantastic. I drove an F430 Spider daily at the time, and I was really hoping for a four door version of it. I decided that wasn't going to happen and went with something else instead.

Really, though, I think the E55/CLS55 is at least as good of a car as the Maserati at a much lower price and without a lot of the hassle. The E63/CLS63 are probably even closer as the motors are closer in execution to the Maserati.


Originally posted by me&amp;you


That was me that said the QP was not worse than the E55, but anyways...

tentacles
06-26-2007, 08:37 PM
On a lighter note

http://img514.imageshack.us/img514/9658/m5dk6.jpg