Excuses I"ve Heard From V8 Drivers After They Lost

[Redlyne_mr2]

here are a bunch of excuses I've heard from muscle car guys after i've beaten them..feel free to add any excuses you've heard wether they've been from muscle cars or not.
1. (I 've heard this so many times)..! couldnt get traction (even though the pavement was warm and I there wasnt any rubber layed down on the road after the race)
2. I ran out of sauce! ( i think he was talking about nitrous but I'm not sure)
3. My carburator is setup for cold weather conditions (wtf???)
4. I ran out of fuel (umm ok)
5. your car weighs 1500 lbs less
6. I'm not on the bottle like you are (i've never put nitrous in my car)
7. my engine hadn't warmed up
8. I'm a big fat dork with a slow car (never heard that one but it woudl be the truth at least)

[Evan]

Originally posted by Redlyne_mr2
8. I'm a big fat dork with a slow car

:rofl:

[Ta-Dah!]

9. V8's of my year put out 110hp!!
(sadly, hes right. -1980)

[Audi Kid]

#1) My Mullet is not aerodynamic OK? OK! haha

[Davan]

Originally posted by Ta-Dah!
9. V8's of my year put out 110hp!!
(sadly, hes right. -1980)

Woohoo! Mine puts out 140! (1979) :rofl: :rofl: :D

[Superesc]

- I didn't know we were racing...

- Couldn't Shift! My hand was greasy from the Quarter pounder....
(...wait that's me...)

- Man I nearly Had you!!

[5.9 R/T]

10. I was distracted by all those fucking lights on your car.
11. Why would I waste my gas racing you?
12. I thought your car was broken the way your exhaust sounded.
13. I wouldn't want you to hurt your body kit on this rough road!
14. I didn't hear you rev your engine over your system blasting that rap crap.
And finally...
15. I did win, you just pulled a flyby you fucking ricer!

[Redlyne_mr2]

Originally posted by 5.9 R/T
10. I was distracted by all those fucking lights on your car.
11. Why would I waste my gas racing you?
12. I thought your car was broken the way your exhaust sounded.
13. I wouldn't want you to hurt your body kit on this rough road!
14. I didn't hear you rev your engine over your system blasting that rap crap.
And finally...
15. I did win, you just pulled a flyby you fucking ricer!
hahaha..if im a ricer then so are you..your dsm is in the same class as me so you can't tell me you havent heard any lame excuses

[Toms-Celica]

10. I was distracted by all those fucking lights on your car.
11. Why would I waste my gas racing you?
12. I thought your car was broken the way your exhaust sounded.
13. I wouldn't want you to hurt your body kit on this rough road!
14. I didn't hear you rev your engine over your system blasting that rap crap.
And finally...
15. I did win, you just pulled a flyby you fucking ricer!


HAHAHAHA!!!! Nice one, thats classic!

[5.9 R/T]

Originally posted by Redlyne_mr2

hahaha..if im a ricer then so are you..your dsm is in the same class as me so you can't tell me you havent heard any lame excuses

Gotta stand up for the V8's! And I only wish that I have heard lame excuses, my car is always too broke to race!:guns:

[Redlyne_mr2]

Originally posted by 5.9 R/T


my car is always too broke to race!:guns:
hahah..that sounds liek a v8 excuse
:thumbsup:

[5.9 R/T]

Originally posted by Redlyne_mr2

hahah..that sounds liek a v8 excuse
:thumbsup:

LOL, nope it's a true DSM excuse! Like my sig says, "DSM never again!"

[trendkill]

5.9 R/T

i feel the same way. hhahhaa, way to make me laugh on this crap day of mine, thanks dude

[Speed_RaSiR]

http://www.imagfx.com/images/getalong.jpg

[Redlyne_mr2]

Originally posted by Speed_RaSiR
http://www.imagfx.com/images/getalong.jpg
that is awesome I need to put that on my car ahahahahhhhahahhaha:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

[van]

Originally posted by Speed_RaSiR
http://www.imagfx.com/images/getalong.jpg

hahah yeah thats a good one!

[Evan]

:rofl:

That's a great pic. Hahaha

[RX-7_TWINTURBO]

http://members.albertacars.net/rx7twinturbo/typer.gif

[Joking Right?]

PLEASE tell me you guys are just kidding. I'm in complete disbelief reading this. I have a non-power-adder 2000 Camaro that went 10.94 @ 123.70 last time out.

This board is bragging about 15 sec slips ??????:dunno:

My stock minivan would embarrass you guys...it's a joke, right?

[RX-7_TWINTURBO]

:bullshit:

[4wheeldrift]

Originally posted by Joking Right?
PLEASE tell me you guys are just kidding. I'm in complete disbelief reading this. I have a non-power-adder 2000 Camaro that went 10.94 @ 123.70 last time out.

This board is bragging about 15 sec slips ??????:dunno:

My stock minivan would embarrass you guys...it's a joke, right?

Yes, people here brag about 15 second time slips. You know why? because we can't just dial up summit racing and order a 454 crate motor to run 10s. Any gorilla with opposable thumbs can make a mustang or F body run tens all day long, there's no developement necessary any more. It was long ago proven how to make domestics quick down the 1320 with big or small block power). Getting a small displacement import to run that same time is a hell of a lot more difficult.

[BarryBeach]

Originally posted by 4wheeldrift


Yes, people here brag about 15 second time slips. You know why? because we can't just dial up summit racing and order a 454 crate motor to run 10s. Any gorilla with opposable thumbs can make a mustang or F body run tens all day long, there's no developement necessary any more. It was long ago proven how to make domestics quick down the 1320 with big or small block power). Getting a small displacement import to run that same time is a hell of a lot more difficult.

And much more fun, also challenging ... plus who the hell wants to be driving around in a mullet-mobile ... not me that's for damn sure :thumbsup: :D

[Silencer]

Originally posted by Joking Right?

My stock minivan would embarrass you guys...it's a joke, right?


You have a minivan: 'nuff said.

[Pete92SL]

Everyone has exuses when they don't win. Who gives a fuck.

Pete

[Speed_RaSiR]

Originally posted by BarryBeach


And much more fun, also challenging ... plus who the hell wants to be driving around in a mullet-mobile ... not me that's for damn sure :thumbsup: :D


:rofl:

[5.9 R/T]

Originally posted by 4wheeldrift


Yes, people here brag about 15 second time slips. You know why? because we can't just dial up summit racing and order a 454 crate motor to run 10s. Any gorilla with opposable thumbs can make a mustang or F body run tens all day long, there's no developement necessary any more. It was long ago proven how to make domestics quick down the 1320 with big or small block power). Getting a small displacement import to run that same time is a hell of a lot more difficult.

HA! And the import scene here is oh sooooo orginal. there is not a single thing here that hasn't been done before guys, when are you gonna get over this "we are breaking new ground by doing up imports" thing. No your not, it's been going on for over 10 years now, get over it! Buy a Kia if you want to be orginal.

[Toms-Celica]

(*Ricer Talk*)aahahaha, who in the right mind would want to be seen in a 1970's Chevelle SS?!!!! When you can be seen in a Honda Civic DX Hatchback with a Orange bodykit! AWSOME! The Chevelle is nothing but a mullet mobile!(*/Ricer Talk*)

My votes the Chevelle SS.....

[4wheeldrift]

Originally posted by 5.9 R/T


HA! And the import scene here is oh sooooo orginal. there is not a single thing here that hasn't been done before guys, when are you gonna get over this "we are breaking new ground by doing up imports" thing. No your not, it's been going on for over 10 years now, get over it! Buy a Kia if you want to be orginal.

Thats total :bullshit: How long did it take for fully developed muscle cars to appear? It was a hell of a lot longer than 10 years I can tell you that.

[Speed_RaSiR]

Check my new ride, sooooo original :rofl:

http://www.davewolin.com/images/kia9.jpg

[Redlyne_mr2]

Originally posted by Speed_RaSiR
Check my new ride, sooooo original :rofl:

http://www.davewolin.com/images/kia9.jpg
probably still slower than a stock si

[Speed_RaSiR]

Yea, but its still the worlds fastest Kia, :rofl:

[5.9 R/T]

Originally posted by 4wheeldrift


Thats total :bullshit: How long did it take for fully developed muscle cars to appear? It was a hell of a lot longer than 10 years I can tell you that.


I don't know what your definition of 'fully developed' is because there is no such thing. Calgary is not a hotbed for 'import development', especially aftermarket development. So if you can show me an import in calgary that is breaking new ground, is doing things that has never been done before, mechanically of course, then I will admit defeat and shut the hell up. My point is that the 'boom' of learning and developing these cars has dropped considerably. Why? Thanks to computers and electronics the industry was able to build, modify, and test products quicker, therefore the great development time when something new was discovered didn't last very long. Are imports in general still getting faster? yes. But are there GREAT advancements in technology that are doing it? no. It's the little things. BTW if you think your getting faster and the 'musclecars' arn't your sadly mistaken. Development in one industry spills over into the other (obviously a vfac or double pumper holley would not be one of these but you get the point).

BTW I would just like to say that your ignorance is astounding. It takes a lot more work then just 'dialing up Summit' and ordering a 7000+ dollar crate motor, dropping it in, and cranking out tens. And besides how many people would want to do that? Most people who are running with quick cars have spent the time and money building it themselves (or at least at a local shop where they have some input) that is what makes them fast; time, money, and detmination. Crate motors are usually saved for the 'show' cars like 'Rods and that sort of thing.

[Ben]

you know what...all this yap about imports and computer this and that is really a load of fuck!!!

What the fuck year is it fellas?!?!

Thats right, the days of the car dealerships selling nothing but out of the box Big displacement drag cars are through. Live in the now!

Due to regulations, expence and the fact that peoplesopinions have changed they just are not practical for everyday cars!

All the people who love their V8's will always love thier V8's and same goes for imports...

The debate on which vehicle gets down the 1320 is not in dilemma for fak sake! Everyone knows for the most part a muscle car will beat an import! Thats not up for debate! Nor is displacement, that topic had been spit up and chewed over and over agan so many times!

Its simple physics that a 4 cyl wont have the throat and rumble of a V8, so that is not wirth being discussed either.

Ever heard rages Porsche? That thing has a damn good sound!


Untill everyone who preaches the allmighty 8 realize that in todays times, the big raw power from the 8inV are not really all that practical anymore...and that YOU WILL see more imports, and with more imports you will see MORE SHITTY ATTEMPTS at people "Trying" to soup them up!

Why is this really only in imported cars, thats easy...domestics have alot more old fasioned ways that alot of people grip harder than a pissed off rottweiler...some people would trade thier wives and houses to maintain thier chargers or hemi's...same with the image...these cars are known to be "Clean"

You go to a muscle car show and its all about "Matching numbers" and "Look how strait she is..." "Look down the car...isn't that amazing!". These cars are awesome cars, believe me, I like a good domestic when I see one, but its a different clich.

For the most part, the import market is the younger crowd whereas the domestic market is the older crowd...

Oh, and who is the primary purchaser of Integras, or Preludes etc? Asan people...now the way society has labled vehicles, when would you see an asian kid roaring down the street in a chevelle or Cuda? Hell, A New Mustang GT Cobra or something...not very common...

It is proven that persons under the age of 25 are more spontanious with money and will buy anything for a change...hense the vast assortment of what I call "wonderous attatchments" for these import cars...although yo do see the odd domestic car poke his nose into the tent to see whats up....(stangs, cavaliers, neons etc)

I think this debate is fucking hopeless. Everyone is entitled to thier opinions, and everyone is entitled to each his/her own...

"Thats all Folks"

Benny



~*~Disclaimer~*~

The views expressed in the above are strictly based on some factual but mainly opinionated in an open and frank manner. The term "Import" in this section is refering to Asian cars and not European.
Using the terminology of "domestic", it was made reference to the "original style", utilizing big or small v8's, not todays modern domestics which are primarily 4 and 6 cyl.

[5.9 R/T]

I debated quoting your post for all of 5 seconds. This is a new arguement, not about who is faster, but if 'imports' are still developing at a hectic pace and breaking new ground here in calgary like was said. It's not a domestic vs import thing, it's an import thing so whats with the mile long post about something we arn't even talking about? Anyways here it is, line by line.

"you know what...all this yap about imports and computer this and that is really a load of fuck!!!"

well simple fact is that computers have played a major role in the development of products for imports. Back in the late 60's early 70's for the 'musclecars' not so much. So whats your problem here?

"What the fuck year is it fellas?!?!"

Today is July 31st, 2002

"Thats right, the days of the car dealerships selling nothing but out of the box Big displacement drag cars are through. Live in the now!"

That's correct. But what does this have anything to do with anything in our conversation? When was buying a new 'big displacement drag car' ever discussed?

"Due to regulations, expence and the fact that peoples opinions have changed they just are not practical for everyday cars!"

Thats correct. But again what does it have to do with what we are talking about?

"All the people who love their V8's will always love thier V8's and same goes for imports..."

O.K....

"The debate on which vehicle gets down the 1320 is not in dilemma fak sake! Everyone knows for the most part a muscle car will beat an import! Thats not up for debate! Nor is deplacement, that topic had been spit up and chewed over and over agan so many times!"

That's also correct. But again, we never discussed who was faster so this is completly irrelavent in our 'debate'.

"Its simple physics that a 4 cyl wont have the throat and rumble of a V8, so that is not wirth being discussed either."

True dat. It was just an opinion I expressed IN A DIFFERENT THREAD?!?!

"Ever heard rages Porsche? That thing has a damn good sound!"

No actually I have not heard his porsche before, but again, what does this have to do with what we are talking about here, this was brought up in a different thread.

"Untill everyone who preaches the allmighty 8 realize that in todays times, the big raw power from the 8inV are not really all that practical anymore...and that YOU WILL see more imports, and with more imports you will see MORE SHITTY ATTEMPTS at people "Trying" to soup them up!"

Oh Dear God NO! You mean to say that we should all own 4cyls because 'big raw power from a [V8] are not really all that practical anymore'. Strange. When did big raw power become unpratical? Next time you have to tow a boat or a trailer that has some weight to it think about what you just said. Then try towing it with a civic. Then realize that 8cyls are just as practical as 4cyls and get off your 'allmighty' import horse. lol

I'm not going to quote the rest because it's just more of the same. Everytime a discussion like this comes up you post a real long thread of your opinions and why we shouldn't argue. Everytime. Why?

[Redlyne_mr2]

all i have to say is that your signature creeps me out 5.9 R/T

[redline]

ok 5.9 r/t how many shops in calgary can give you / assist you in tuning/ building an 4 cly import? or better yet how many shops in calgary have turned out a fast import?

[Ed the SOHC]

Originally posted by Benny
The term "Import" in this section is refering to Asian cars and not European.

Why doesn't it include European cars?:dunno:

[redline]

Originally posted by Ed the SOHC


Why doesn't it include European cars?:dunno:

cuz they are high rollers and dont drive jap crap!

[Audi Kid]

haha i know 1 tuner that turned out a fast ass import! ! redline garage inc hehe

[5.9 R/T]

Originally posted by redline
ok 5.9 r/t how many shops in calgary can give you / assist you in tuning/ building an 4 cly import? or better yet how many shops in calgary have turned out a fast import?

I don't know and it doesn't matter. The only point that I was trying to make is that there is nothing groundbreaking going on here. You obviously agree by what you just posted, or am I reading too much into it? I'm not saying that imports here are slow, under-developed cars, cause they are not, what I'm saying is that nothing here is cutting edge/breaking new gound material. Domestics are the same way, nothing groundbreaking here either, but because there has been more time spent developing them, both here and around the world, they seem more developed.

[Ed the SOHC]

Originally posted by redline


cuz they are high rollers and dont drive jap crap!

That's so obvious... :banghead: how did I miss that?:dunno: :rolleyes:

[redline]

I am not really agree w/ you totally but my point kind is there in no one here that can you help you build a fast import in calgary.

Point two the domestic go fast market is way more advanced then the import market. We are just got out first aftermarket block for a honda b series. (no other aftermarket block for any other import) Everything that has been done with the imports has been done with 99% factory parts. But the imports are not really breaking ground we are just try to catch up to the domestics. And to that point imports are way under developed and prob. will never fully catch up to domestics.

[Redlyne_mr2]

it depends how deep your wallets is..im sure if you payed for it tunerworks would build you an 11 second import..it just depends on how much you want to spend..the company I work for is currently building a 6-700hp supra and is assisting in the buildup of a 4-500hp supra as well as finishing my engine

[Ben]

That rant I posted was In general, it was to summarize all posts pretty much...it used things from many threads because I didnt want to start a new topic on this trash

[Ben]

Originally posted by 5.9 R/T
"Untill everyone who preaches the allmighty 8 realize that in todays times, the big raw power from the 8inV are not really all that practical anymore...and that YOU WILL see more imports, and with more imports you will see MORE SHITTY ATTEMPTS at people "Trying" to soup them up!"

Oh Dear God NO! You mean to say that we should all own 4cyls because 'big raw power from a [V8] are not really all that practical anymore'. Strange. When did big raw power become unpratical? Next time you have to tow a boat or a trailer that has some weight to it think about what you just said. Then try towing it with a civic. Then realize that 8cyls are just as practical as 4cyls and get off your 'allmighty' import horse. lol



I'm just saying they are not as practical to be racing up and down the streets as they used to and still used for daily drivers because of the price of gas and such...There is a reason why the market moved from the bench seat land yaughts to the midsized and compact sedans...

I am not a 4 cyl fan either, Im just merely saying all this stuff because I, as I'm sure alot of people are sick of always getting into the big domestic Vs Import thread that end up solving nothing and always end in heated tempers....

[Redlyne_mr2]

Originally posted by Benny



I'm just saying they are not as practical to be racing up and down the streets as they used to and still used for daily drivers because of the price of gas and such...There is a reason why they stopped making them...

I am not a 4 cyl fan either, Im just merely saying all this stuff because I, as I'm sure alot of people are sick of always getting into the big domestic Vs Import thread that end up solving nothing and always end in heated tempers....
you dont like v8's or 4's..whats up benny are you one of those v6 dudes..you know the 2.5 probe power boys...busted

[Ben]

I like Flat 6's!

w00t!

hahahaha


All I ment to say is niether motor is perfect so just make the best of what you have.

[5.9 R/T]

Nothing heated here, except for your language. If you don't like to read this stuff then use common sense and don't open a thread labled "excuses from V8 drivers..." I don't think a thread could possibly be more labled for an import vs domestic arguement!!! But now that that is over with...

Redline: You just made my day and said the words I wanted to hear "there in no one here that can you help you build a fast import in calgary" That was exactly my point, and without the backing of a shop and the money that goes with it development here will never be cutting edge. I agree with you to a certian extent on what you said next. The stock stuff the imports have is incredible, it can take an enormous beating in most cases, and so the need for performance short blocks just hasn't been there. But slowly they are getting faster and the need is growing, therefore the market of parts is growing (supply & demand). The next step is head design, the holder of hidden hp. I havent seen any aftermarket head kits for the 4cyl imports (mostly cause you have a damn good one on there already) but once some aftermarket geru reconizes this fact and develops better ones I believe imports will be almost toe to toe with domestics in terms of development. The challenge is to improve on what is already a great design...

[redline]

there are four companies that are rumoured to have heads in the works for b series honda but that is it...

[GT2NV]

haha i guess im in the middle lol .....
ford / mazda
4 <--> v6 <--> v8
what would you consider me?
i need to choose a side .. jk
yah right:thumbsup:

[4wheeldrift]

Originally posted by 5.9 R/T

BTW I would just like to say that your ignorance is astounding. It takes a lot more work then just 'dialing up Summit' and ordering a 7000+ dollar crate motor, dropping it in, and cranking out tens. And besides how many people would want to do that? Most people who are running with quick cars have spent the time and money building it themselves (or at least at a local shop where they have some input) that is what makes them fast; time, money, and detmination. Crate motors are usually saved for the 'show' cars like 'Rods and that sort of thing.
Seriously, this has got to be one of the most hopelessly naive things I have ever heard in my entire life. Since the earliest days of hot rodding. people have been depending upon shops to do the work for them. Go to the bracket races sometime, and talk to the guys with the seriously fast equipment. I'm willing to bet almost none of those guy built the motors they are running themselves, though they may tear them down and repair them themselves. To make a seriously durable motor producing serious power requires equipment only a full machine shop can provide. I don't know too many shadetree mechanics with access to the kind of equipment required to fully balance and blueprint a motor unless the shop they work for has it. Professional engine builders have been a part of racing for as long as racing has existed, from the earliest moonshine runners of the prohibition era to modern pro-stock and F1. The most competitive teams have always relied on someone else to put the equipment together, the teams themselves only maintain it and ensure it stays work in peak condition.

[redline]

i give up................................

[5.9 R/T]

Like I said in my post, "at a local shop where they have some input". Balancing (in the most simplest explination) is nothing more then adding some mass here, taking some off there, you can tear down an engine, have it balanced, and then reassmble it yourself. Blueprinting would probably need the engine assembled at the shop, but I only know the general explination of it so again like balacing the 'shadetree' mechanic could reassemble it themselves, I really don't know, maybe someone else that has actually done this could answer. My point was that you saying "Any gorilla with opposable thumbs can make a mustang or F body run tens all day long" by "just dial[ing] up summit racing and order[ing] a 454 crate motor" was indeed the "most hopelessly naive [thing] I have ever heard in my entire life".

[4wheeldrift]

Blueprinting is taking all the components of the motor and making sure they all match a particular spec from the factory. The idea is to get the motor as close to the tight end of the tolerance as possible. So you'd take all of your injectors and test them, throw away the ones that weren't close enough and get more, test them throw away the ones that weren't close enough...and so on and so forth. Likewise rods, measure each rod for critical dimensions and weight and get a set as closely matched as you can manage. It requires some pretty specialized equipment for things like injectors and stuff, calipers and measuring equipment and accurate scales for rods and cranks. Its not really something any shop can do, people are willing to pay a lot of money to have it done. Its especially important in factory spec classes where you can't do anything to the motor modifications wise, but blueprinting is legal. Most mechanics can put a motor together, but its the details like blueprinting that require the use of a full shop to accomplish. In total honesty though, I doubt most teams take a pile of blueprinted components and assemble them themselves. They'd let the motor builder do it. The best motors are still hand assembled, but its not done initially by shadetree types or even by a team of race mechanics, its done by professionals who do nothing but tear down and put together motors full time for a living. Tearing down a motor is something that can be done with a little knowledge and the right tools, but its all the details that go into assembling the motor in the first place to make it reliable that are why engine builders exist. I can dial up summit and order a crate motor, blueprinted and built to my spec and I can be a lot more certain it will run reliably than it would if I put it together myself because it was built by professionals using top quality components and properly assembled the first time. Engine builders who put together shit motors don't tend to stay in business very long. The motors are assembled with quality and care, and most motors of that type come out of the box broken in and tuned, because who knows better than the man who built the motor himself how to make it run at peak efficiency? Most race motors are run on an engine dyno to get accurate power graphs and ensure the motor is optimally broken in before it ever leaves the shop to go into a car. Now why wouldn't I want to take advantage of that if I want to make my car quick and reliable? I'm not saying that there aren't people who do all this stuff themselves, but those people are the exception, not the rule.

[Ben]

Originally posted by redline
i give up................................


WeRd!

[Toms-Celica]

Why bother with the shop? You can do a lot of this shit in your garage with the proper tools...?
:dunno:

[5.9 R/T]

Originally posted by 4wheeldrift
Blueprinting is taking all the components of the motor and making sure they all match a particular spec from the factory. The idea is to get the motor as close to the tight end of the tolerance as possible. So you'd take all of your injectors and test them, throw away the ones that weren't close enough and get more, test them throw away the ones that weren't close enough...and so on and so forth. Likewise rods, measure each rod for critical dimensions and weight and get a set as closely matched as you can manage. It requires some pretty specialized equipment for things like injectors and stuff, calipers and measuring equipment and accurate scales for rods and cranks. Its not really something any shop can do, people are willing to pay a lot of money to have it done. Its especially important in factory spec classes where you can't do anything to the motor modifications wise, but blueprinting is legal. Most mechanics can put a motor together, but its the details like blueprinting that require the use of a full shop to accomplish. In total honesty though, I doubt most teams take a pile of blueprinted components and assemble them themselves. They'd let the motor builder do it. The best motors are still hand assembled, but its not done initially by shadetree types or even by a team of race mechanics, its done by professionals who do nothing but tear down and put together motors full time for a living. Tearing down a motor is something that can be done with a little knowledge and the right tools, but its all the details that go into assembling the motor in the first place to make it reliable that are why engine builders exist. I can dial up summit and order a crate motor, blueprinted and built to my spec and I can be a lot more certain it will run reliably than it would if I put it together myself because it was built by professionals using top quality components and properly assembled the first time. Engine builders who put together shit motors don't tend to stay in business very long. The motors are assembled with quality and care, and most motors of that type come out of the box broken in and tuned, because who knows better than the man who built the motor himself how to make it run at peak efficiency? Most race motors are run on an engine dyno to get accurate power graphs and ensure the motor is optimally broken in before it ever leaves the shop to go into a car. Now why wouldn't I want to take advantage of that if I want to make my car quick and reliable? I'm not saying that there aren't people who do all this stuff themselves, but those people are the exception, not the rule.

Summit doesn't sell B&B engines. Most crate motors are not B&B except for the normal factory treatment that every car on the road has. You have to buy the motor then get it B&B'd. But you win, I refuse to argue this anymore.

[lammer]

Originally posted by Toms-Celica
Why bother with the shop? You can do a lot of this shit in your garage with the proper tools...?
:dunno:

you got the proper tools but do you have the proper knowledge.:thumbsup:

[4wheeldrift]

Well, I guess my point maybe wasn't totally clear. If I want to build a domestic motor in calgary, I have my choice of at least 3 places capable of assembling a high performance motor. If I'm building a 5 litre, I've got my choice of at least 5 different kinds of heads with different flow characteristics, I can pick from 20 or 30 different cams to get the type of power characteristics I want. I can choose from all kinds of aftermarket blocks to get a block strong enough to handle what I want to do, I can choose from strengthened cranks and rods and anything else. If I want to build an import, what do I have to work with? Sure, there are a couple of shops around that can do it, but on my subaru for instance if I want different heads I am hooped, all I have to choose from is stock heads with valve jobs and port and polish sets. No real choice in flow characteristics or anything. If I want a cam, I have my choice of 2 different cams, neither of which really give me any say in how the car makes power. If I want to build a strong motor, I don't have a lot of choice in terms of beefier parts, and what choices I do have are expensive as hell. Hondas aren't quite as bad off as I am, but there still is a rather limited selection of stuff. Its not like there isn't demand for it, there are guys in the states that are blowing motors up faster than their car uses gasoline. There's just no one producing a lot of this stuff. If I want a stronger crank I have to find a fab shop to make one for me because there isn't 10 aftermarket ones available. This is where development comes in. Hot rodders have had over 50 years to accumulate a vast catalog of parts to make domestic cars fast. While tuning imports has been popular since the earliest hondas and datsuns first hit our shores, most of the cars haven't been able to produce enough power to really start breaking stuff until recently. As people start having to custom fabricate these parts to make their cars bulletproof, they'll likely realize that there are more people who need them as well and start to put them out on the market. THis is what happened to the domestics, only they've been doing it for 40 years longer so there's a much bigger pool of parts available to replace everything concievable. I have little doubt that imports will eventually reach the type of development that domestics have, but in terms of development of these parts the imports are way way behind.

[HOK]

hello 5.9 R/t its very interesting... just read it...:zzz:

just want to tell you a story about my car... when my piston melted i had to find a way to repair my car. When i was in TO. i was told by VERY respected and good tuners to replace the pistons and rods and pins and rehone and this and that... pretty much what all the subarus were doing... sadly i did not have enough money for the work... so i researched and researched... and found that there were 4-6 cars in the entire world (that i could find, maybe more but you get it) that have done what i did... and these were "tuners" so these were cars with good resources and expertise.. but i just found it sooooo tempting. so what i did was use a motor from a 1992 turbo family wagon (stock closed deck, piston oil squirters, forged internal(s)) and put it in my 1999 N/A RS @!!!! when i went to try to find some engine guys in town to do it... they looked at the thing (flat four design) and laughed... what is that a try hard jap porsche??? i even went to some porsche guys and they wanted more than the car was worth to do the install... lol... so i was forced to go to the dealer... no where else i tell you... so i ask the dealer to do it... and he laughed so hard he thought i was the biggest idiot... he made it a point that even if it blows they won't cover it... because he had never heard anyone do this and even if it worked they were not meant, designed to work together, but he said WTH i'll take your money... i asked the tuners again and he said it works... just no one is willing to try... but i had to do it... turbo block...

so as it happens the N/A heads flow very well and on the turbo block decreases the compression but still leaves much torque... very good for turbo, anyways... there are tons of people that have my exact setupnow ... mind you i wasn't the first... but i'd bet that i was one of the first in Canada and guaranteed the first in Calgary... I'm just trying to say... that even though we are a small city... there are a lot of people... i've been racing the car and boosting it WOT every day for about a year adn a half... this car will never blown as it stands.. stock 17-16 sec car now a 13.4 any many have blown their turboed subarus... i'm not saying i'm the revolutionary here... i'm trying to say that i was laughed at because of my car... thats ridiculous... i'm giving you money to put my car together.... (and I just have to say it, sorry)... they were all pussies... now every shmoo is wanting to tune a WRX... that dealer that laughed at me... loves talking to me now... even said i could have a job if when i asked. its weird... all because of this ugly little car, btw i was one of the first to jam the WRX IC (with no mods) in my car too... everyone said it wouldn't work... lol...

the city is bigger then you think... just sharing my experience...

[HOK]

this is the engine bay... ain't purty... but its the best i could muster up... pic (http://hok.abs-tec.com/carft.JPG)

[5.9 R/T]

I will respond to that. I'm a little bit confused by your story, now did you do a complete motor swap out of the turbo wagon, or just use the block? Also was any fabricating of parts necessary or was it a straight swap?

[HOK]

just block onto heads... from a 2.2 turbo liter engine block to 2.5 litre N/A heads... some really hate the idea... i can see why... most fabed stuff was for the turbo kit and the turbo.... stuff i slowly did... just the point about the blocks was what was crazy...

[HOK]

btw i don't agree or disagree with anyone... because the arguement is moot... in hong kong and japan its the exact opposite... i don't even know what you guys are REALLY arguing about... i've never seen a corvette at rallys... and i've never seen a 4 sec subaru... does it matter? i like mine they like thiers... that picture says it all LOL great photo....

[2000impreza]

HOK so no one in the city will swap blocks besides the dealership?

[5.9 R/T]

Frankensteining has been around for decades and has only recently caught on in the import scene in a big way. And of course, if it hasn't been done before no shop will want to do it, thats just common sense. But now i'm going to split some hairs a little... Like you said there were already people doing it (albeit 5 or 6) but you were not the first. Also little development is needed to combine heads and blocks that fit. You just throw them together and hope that they work, and in your case they obviously worked very well. Chances are tho, that if the swap worked in one car (the tuners you mentioned) it would almost surely work in yours, the only problem you had was getting someone to install it which is understandable. Engine shops don't like doing things that have never been done before because 1. they don't have the experience, and 2. how are they supposed to know if it's going to work of just blow up in your face when you fire it up. Why take that chance? I do commend you however on trying something new and I am glad that everything worked out for you. The development that I was refering to, however, was that of specific parts and not just straight swaps.

[HOK]

i understand... but you seem to be asking for the reinventing of the wheel... thats impossible... all and i mean every single one of the 5-6 i heard of had pistons and rods... build up... one guy told me it should work with the stock pistons... of course.. why wouldn't they... but the point is i don't think anyone in the world except for the car manufacturers and prodrive can do what you are trying to get at... (i'm not arguing, just seems that way to make things clear...)

[HOK]

2000impreza

you are putting a built 2.5 block on 2.5 heads right?... you should be ok... i think damian can find someone for sure now... but i really really recommend SOC or actually Armand from there... do it private or whatever... and Mau can do it... that guy with the supra.. but he doesn't like to do it for strangers cause theres no guarentee it won't blow right? ... but its costs a lot i know.. get it done right... btw hows the build up sounds like your getting ready....

[5.9 R/T]

Perhaps I narrowed it down to much. But consider this. This is just a guess but I'm willing to bet no turbo subie is using propane injection. Now lets say you want to get more performance out of your car safely by keeping knock levels down at the boost level you want to run. You've been using water injection but it just doesn't seem to be working good enough so you take a page out of some other turbo cars and develop a propane injection setup specifically for subies. That is what I would consider development, it's not reinventing the wheel, and it really wouldn't be all that difficult if you had knowledge time and some money. I hope that example clears up what I mean.

[HOK]

people have been thinking about that lol... Mau actually wanted to do it first... but we thought that a subie with a 300 lbs propane tank looked ridiculous compared to a domestic with one... lol... the weight would kill the drivetrain.. lol... its funny you mention propane dude... :rofl:

[5.9 R/T]

Actually I'll give you a link, someone on the DSM board is in the middle of developing a kit(thats where i took the example from), actually he's pretty close to done i think if you want to check it out. He's using two 5lbs propane bottles and he says they last for a week or something I can't remember. Anyway the setup is tuned to come on at a certian boost level by a boost actuator and this guy has it on all the time. There is a lot of pages to read but if you are truely interrested there is some good information and results posted.

http://www.dsmtalk.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=54548

The site has been up and down all day so if it doesn't work try again later.

[HOK]

thanks... i came up with one... A STEAM ENGINE SUBIE!!! i saw a car on Leno ran by steam...no brakes tho.... hehe ok ok... but i really got a truly original idea... for intercooling

[Silencer]

Originally posted by 5.9 R/T



I don't know what your definition of 'fully developed' is because there is no such thing. Calgary is not a hotbed for 'import development', especially aftermarket development. So if you can show me an import in calgary that is breaking new ground, is doing things that has never been done before, mechanically of course, then I will admit defeat and shut the hell up.

Two words: Reg Riemer(of Calgary)

His MIV Toyota Supra makes ~600hp
It came 4th overall at the One Lap of America in, behind three cars with 2 to 3 times the displacement(A Lingenfelter Twin Turbo Corvette, a Hennessey Venom 650 Viper and a RennTech 680 HP SL) Like he says "Technology is the only replacement for cubic inches"
The best thing about it though is that it is fully streetable with full interior and you can turn down the boost and it will give you 28 mpg. It(and some other cars built by RCTS) has won best of show at World of Wheels several times as well.

BTW, all this was done using stock block and cylinder heads.
I think that there was also an article about his company in the Wheels section of the Herald last Friday.

For more info, check out Reimer Consulting Technical Services at
www.monsterhorsepower.com

[5.9 R/T]

Ummm I will respond with a website.

www.suprastore.com

[Silencer]

Yeah, that's a good site and I have seen it before(the re-design looks much better), but it doesn't change the fact that with stock block and cylinder heads, 600 hp is impressive. The cars on suprastore making 800+ are usually not street legal or have radically modified internals.

[Silencer]

I find that this discussion has become somewhat irrelevant.
The terms "import" and "domestic" are relative. What I mean is that cars are rarely built where they are designed. For example, I was talking to a non-car guy the other day and he said he would only drive european cars. So I asked if he would drive a Volkswagen Jetta or Golf. He of course said yes to which I informed him that they are built in Mexico.
So does that mean the Golf is a European car? Some say yes, others no.
Just because it was designed in Germany does not mean it retains "German Quality" after having been built by cheap labour.
(not that I don't like Golfs, I do).
Add all the platform sharing into the mix(DSM, new Ecotecs, chrysler crossfire w/ merc engine, mazda mx-6/Ford probe) and you see that refering to a car by the place they were designed does not werk.
My point is that comparing cars by giving them labels like import and domestic is pointless, especially considering the model ranges of most car companies nowadays.
To me, a Pontiac Sunfire(I4 Sport compact) seems alot more like an "import" then an M-B SL(V8 Grand Tourer).

Just my two pennies.....