New reason not to speed in Ontario

[Euro_Trash]

Did a quick check to see if this is a repost and didn't see anything, if it is then just shut this thread down!

$10,000 fine for going 50 over the speed limit since you will be treated as a street racer

Canada Introduces $10,000 Speeding Ticket
Ontario, Canada applies street racing penalties to motorists who are not racing anybody.

Ontario, Canada Premier Dalton McGuinty today announced that being caught driving 50km/h (31 MPH) over the speed limit will automatically trigger "street racing" penalties -- even if the accused motorist is driving alone on an otherwise empty road. The change in definition will, in effect, turn ordinary speeding into an offense that can carry a $10,000 (US $9305) fine and up to six months in jail, making it one of the most expensive traffic tickets in North America.

"If you choose to break the law, we consider you a threat to our public safety and you're going to face stiff penalties," McGuinty said in a statement.

In June, McGuinty cited the importance of combating the "organized crime" of street racing as he urged passage of the Safer Roads for a Safer Ontario Act which created the $10,000 penalty. The change in definition also means that the word of a police officer is all that it takes to confiscate a car and driver's license for at least seven days.

"There is no appeal from, or right to be heard before, a vehicle detention, driver's license suspension or vehicle impoundment under [the street racing] subsection," the Safer Roads Act states.

McGuinty also announced a proposal to hire 55 new traffic police officers and purchase a high-tech surveillance airplane in an attempt to rack up several of the expensive new fines.


http://www.thenewspaper.com/news/19/1918.asp

[bobby_lu]

(flame suit)

I hope all that extra cash will help them find all those schoolyard murderers etc.:rolleyes:

I wonder what the fine for 229 km/h over the limit is? haha

[JRSC00LUDE]

I think it would be appropriate for this man to be shot out of a cannon.

[2002civic]

wow that seems a little excessive

[asuth077]

"If convicted, fines from $2,000 to $10,000, Canada's highest penalty. "


http://www.thestar.com/News/article/246841

[JGerke]

thats crap....what if some officer decides to be a dick....not that they would but if it happened, you would not be able to protest the claim...totally against our legal system.

[Inzane]

God damn Ontario Liberals!!.... :banghead:

That's all I got to say.

:guns:

[dansmith11]

"There is no appeal from, or right to be heard before, a vehicle detention, driver's license suspension or vehicle impoundment under [the street racing] subsection," the Safer Roads Act states.

what the hell is that?

what happened to innocent until proven guilty?

is that seriously a passed law, or is this just what some douche wants to put in place?

[Euro_Trash]

Sounds like it passed as the Safer Roads Act

[BigMass]

"If you choose to break the law, we consider you a threat to our public safety and you're going to face stiff penalties," McGuinty said in a statement.

Mr McGuinty, i consider YOU a threat to my public safety. You can take your fantasy Fascist Police State and burn in hell :thumbsup:

[JRSC00LUDE]

I'm sure karma will either see him get pulled over for doing 50+ by a cop that doesn't agree with his policy or he'll get seriously injured by a slow moving vehicle and see that stupidity is a bigger danger to public safety than speed.

[Crymson]

Discretionary tactics will prevail, with an obscene rise of 149 in a 150 zone given to SUV and Mini-van driving, white, upper middle class drivers.

And the number of high speed chases will dramatically increase because for a first time offender, resisting arrest and dangerous driving can be contested in court and are likely preferrable to a non-appealable license suspension and 10,000$ fine.

I think there will be a fund set up, likely by http://www.corskan.on.ca/svao/ with a sympathetic law office to pay for an expensive challenge based on the charter of rights for somone charged with this offence.

I know we're a long way from ontario, but I think it's worth our support as Canadians.

reminds me of




When the Nazis came for the communists,
I remained silent;
I was not a communist.

When they locked up the social democrats,
I remained silent;
I was not a social democrat.

When they came for the trade unionists,
I did not speak out;
I was not a trade unionist.

When they came for me,
there was no one left to speak out.

[bobby_lu]

Originally posted by Crymson
[B]Discretionary tactics will prevail, with an obscene rise of 149 in a 150 zone given to SUV and Mini-van driving, white, upper middle class drivers.

And the number of high speed chases will dramatically increase


:werd: They should check out Highway 2/2a in the mornings between Calgary and High River....No one going under 140, hardly unsafe on that road anyways though.

[GTS Jeff]

Originally posted by Inzane
God damn Ontario Liberals!!.... :banghead:

That's all I got to say.

:guns: What is it with people not understanding the basic definitions of liberalism and conservatism? :banghead:

[88CRX]

The law/ticket is fine ($10k is alot LOL)... if your doing 50 over the speedlimit you are a risk to yourself and others on the road.

however...

Originally posted by Euro_Trash
. The change in definition also means that the word of a police officer is all that it takes to confiscate a car and driver's license for at least seven days.

Brutal :thumbsdow :thumbsdow

I can see problems with that.

[Inzane]

Originally posted by GTS Jeff
What is it with people not understanding the basic definitions of liberalism and conservatism? :banghead:

It has nothing to do with the definitions.

It has everything to do with one particular political party in Ontario. They just happen to be Liberals, call them whatever you want... ("Assholes" maybe?).

[GQBalla]

so this is definatly only in ontario?

[Inzane]

Originally posted by GQBalla
so this is definatly only in ontario?

So far, yes.

The Ontario Provincial Government is at it again.

[HPR]

what are the penalties for resisting arrest? I'm assuming it will be higher than $10K and/or 6 months in jail, otherwise that would be fucked up. It would give you more of reason to put the pedal to the ground.:thumbsdow

[Crymson]

Originally posted by Inzane


So far, yes.

The Ontario Provincial Government is at it again.

Seriously, you think this won't happen everwhere as soon as $10,000 cheques start rolling into Ontario's provincial coffers un-contested?

[thrasher22]

Originally posted by 88CRX
The law/ticket is fine ($10k is alot LOL)... if your doing 50 over the speedlimit you are a risk to yourself and others on the road.

however...


Brutal :thumbsdow :thumbsdow

I can see problems with that.

And in ontario it also means they can crush your car :rolleyes:

"McGuinty also announced a proposal to hire 55 new traffic police officers and purchase a high-tech surveillance airplane in an attempt to rack up several of the expensive new fines"

The day they have zero violent crime, they can justify buying a surveillance plane to track speeders. Until then, thats the dumbest thing I've heard all day, how the hell did he get elected?

[TimG]

because Ernie Eves is/was a moron.

McGuinty is also the guy who swore "i will not raise taxes" and then a few months after taking office imposed a health care premium on everyone.

[SteveyBoy]

This might be just me... but i think if they're going to start coming up with rediculous laws like this they might want to also consider creating certain roads similar to the autoban so that there are "Safe" places to do things like this discouraging people from doing it in places where it can actually have alot of negative affects not only on the public but on themselves aswell.
If anyone has ever looked up any statistics for the autoban and compaired them to most other roads around the world they'll see that it actually seems to be a fairely harmless road even with the high speeds i think just because everyone respects it for what it is and how it works.
ah well just my little bit

[A790]

The Ontario provincial government is an absolute joke. I see crazy ass driving on the 401, 403, 404, and 427 every day. People tailgate, cut each other off, weave in and out of traffic, and generally put each other in harms way.

So, of course, McGuinty goes after "street racers". The "street racing" phenomenon is no bigger there than it is anywhere else- it is nothing more than a rather convenient cop out and a way to shift the blame towards something that is easily identifiable. The average person doesn't care to think any further.

This is absolute lunacy, nothing more, nothing less, and of course, the minds of the Ontarians who are "affected" are brainwashed to believe that it's for the greater good.

I have rights as a citizen of Canada, and I'll be damned if some Premier with an attitude problem will take them away!

[JRSC00LUDE]

^

Common sense and gov't dont' mix. Comparing gov't to stupid is like comparing shit to diarrhea.

[Antonito]

I can't see how this can possibly be legal. I'm not an expert, so I could be wrong, but something about not being able to contest the charges seems to go against the very fibre of our justice system and government.

The fine itself is actually not bad. On highways it might not be the greatest law, but it'd be nice for the cops to finally start nailing all the asshats going 100 on inner-city streets

[DayGlow]

wwaaaa it's my right to drive 50+ over the limit. :cry:

[Xtrema]

Originally posted by DayGlow
wwaaaa it's my right to drive 50+ over the limit. :cry:

:D Damn right!

How often does street racing go over 50+?

[JRSC00LUDE]

Originally posted by DayGlow
wwaaaa it's my right to drive 50+ over the limit. :cry:

No, it's my right to drive 50 over the limit and pay the existing consequences if I get caught. It's also my right to drive 50 over and not be classified a "street racer" by a vote-gathering gov't no nothing. It's my right not to be subjected to such garbage as "There is no appeal from, or right to be heard before, a vehicle detention, driver's license suspension or vehicle impoundment under [the street racing] subsection," the Safer Roads Act states.". Especially when such things are handed out by a heavy-handed moron that paints every situation the same with his broad brush of the law.

Edit - I'm not chasing you around the forum to pick at you, I usually find your posting in law-related matters sensible - just not this time. This law isn't going to do anything to promote public safety and it's heavy-handed approach laughs in the face of conventional sensibility imo.

[Antonito]

^^ well, you got 1 out of 3 correct. The other 2 rights you think you have are complete nonsense

[JRSC00LUDE]

So which is it that's right? I can pay existing fines? I'm not a "street racer" if I am going 151 on a deserted highway since I am not racing anything but time? Or I deserve the right to be heard/appeal since not all cases are the same and we don't live in a socialist state?

That's right, all 3.

[Antonito]

How do you figure the government doesn't have the right to change the laws with due process?

Why isn't the government allowed to apply a label to a crime? They could call you a "dangerous lunatic" instead, it makes no difference. Why don't you start complaining that you get labelled a thief for stealing candy when all you are doing is liberating the candy from it's oppresive masters.

You have no concept of what a right is, do you? It's not something you want, it's what is outlined by whatever jurisdictional powers you live under.

[Inzane]

Originally posted by Xtrema
How often does street racing go over 50+?

That's right, most of the time the kids will have crashed their parents' car before getting that fast.

[bart]

when i speed 50+ in poland i have to buy the cop 2 beers instead of 1 ahah, i love corruption ;)

[JRSC00LUDE]

Originally posted by Antonito
You have no concept of what a right is, do you? It's not something you want, it's what is outlined by whatever jurisdictional powers you live under.

You sir are the one that needs some education. Your simplistic logic suggests that people in China have the "right" to be jailed or killed for speaking against their "jurasdictional powers". :rolleyes: Ever hear that adage about showing up to a battle of wits unarmed? Not that there is anything particularly witty about this conversation, but you get the point.

I hope.

[Antonito]

Yes, it is a commonly known fact that people in China don't have the same rights as we do. That's why people who come from shitty countries are always talking about how we should all be so happy that we have so many rights.I have no idea why you think that helps prove that a right is whatever you as an unelected official deem to be what you want, but hey, more power to you.

I'd like to know, in what legal document in Canadas history does it outline your right to pick your punishment? I mean an actual document, not just the nothing that you have thus far brought to this discussion.

[kertejud]

Well, I do have a problem with the 'no-appeal' bullshit (how is such a law able to be passed). I'd imagine that if people wanted to take it to a higher court for being unconstitutional, they would win. At least I'd like to think so.

As for the fine, I'm not crazy about it on highways, but I'm all for it on city streets. In fact, I say double it! ;)

[JRSC00LUDE]

Well, I'm not going to waste time explaining a hasty analogy showing the gaping holes in your logic to you. The fact that you can't see it says enough about your ability to continue debating something you aren't understanding. No offense intended so don't bother flaming this thread off topic.




Originally posted by Antonito
I'd like to know, in what legal document in Canadas history does it outline your right to pick your punishment? I mean an actual document, not just the nothing that you have thus far brought to this discussion.

:dunno: Relevance? Don't seem to recall saying anything about picking punishment......



Originally posted by kertejud
Well, I do have a problem with the 'no-appeal' bullshit (how is such a law able to be passed). I'd imagine that if people wanted to take it to a higher court for being unconstitutional, they would win. At least I'd like to think so.

As for the fine, I'm not crazy about it on highways, but I'm all for it on city streets. In fact, I say double it! ;)

There we go, three cheers for an intelligent post. :thumbsup:

[Antonito]

You say it is your right to be punished with the old fine, rather than being given the new fine. Seems to me that you want to pick your punishment.

[JRSC00LUDE]

Well yes, it's my right to drive 50 over and pay the fine when I'm speeding.

It's also my right to be fined 10,000 and labelled a "street racer" when I'm street racing.

These are two separate things and should remain as such under the law is the point here. Going 50 over doesn't make you a street racer and therefore it is my right not to be charged as one so I guess you are right, I am picking the punishment. The one that fits the crime, not the trumped up media-loving vote-grabbing one.

Clear enough yet?

[Antonito]

I'm pretty sure they are saying that anyone going more than 50 over will be given the $10,000 fine, not just designating anyone at random that they feel like. So there is no "other fine". It's $10,000. The law has changed. It may suck super balls, and you may not agree with it, but you certainly don't have a right to say "I want the old law back" and expect it to happen unless the law changes again.

If there were 2 sets of fines in effect at once, one for going 50+ over but not being judged by whatever cop has pulled you over as a street racer, and one for going over and being charged as a racer, then you can say you have the right to try to get the lower fine.

[JRSC00LUDE]

^

And as soon as that law gets challenged in court and scaled back people will do just that.

Are we done? ;)

[Antonito]

Sure, quitter :D

[DayGlow]

Originally posted by JRSC00LUDE


No, it's my right to drive 50 over the limit and pay the existing consequences if I get caught. It's also my right to drive 50 over and not be classified a "street racer" by a vote-gathering gov't no nothing. It's my right not to be subjected to such garbage as "There is no appeal from, or right to be heard before, a vehicle detention, driver's license suspension or vehicle impoundment under [the street racing] subsection," the Safer Roads Act states.". Especially when such things are handed out by a heavy-handed moron that paints every situation the same with his broad brush of the law.

Edit - I'm not chasing you around the forum to pick at you, I usually find your posting in law-related matters sensible - just not this time. This law isn't going to do anything to promote public safety and it's heavy-handed approach laughs in the face of conventional sensibility imo.

People bitch and complain about how horrible drivers are today on the road. I say anything that can get the crap off of the road is a good thing.

Sorry, but blasting down a roadyway at 50+ is irresponsible and deserves to be punished. A person that takes that risk will take others.

Look at your speedo. The gap between any speed and another 50km/hr is huge. Some innocent person not paying attention will not drift into this danger zone. Only deliberate action will do it.

As for the argument that it's completely safe on an empty road, well you can never garantee that a public road will be devoid of any hazard. Guess what? If you get plugged going 50 over the limit then you just missed a hazard, the cop that napped you. I'm much happier that some cop is what you missed instead of some other hazard on the road.

At no time is is sensible or reasonable to go 50+ over the limit. You lose your car? So sad, maybe next time pay more attention to what you are doing. Everyone has the attitude that 'it won't happen to me' be it being caught or getting into a collision. Maybe since I constantly deal with these people I see the fact that it does happen, and when it does many lives are ruined, not just the people at the scene.

[codetrap]

Isn't the point that you don't have the "right" to go 50 over? Nor do you have the "right" to drive. Seems like there's a bit of a false sense of entitlement going on here.

[95EagleAWD]

Why do so many people on Beyond care about Ontario laws?

No one is going to crush your car out here people.

[A790]

A lot of you are missing the point.

The traffic in Ontario flows at 150 sometimes on the major highways. Contest that statement all you like, but until you've lived here and experienced it firsthand you won't believe some of the unreal driving that goes on.

The fact that they've upped the fine is also irrelevant. What strikes me as odd is that the provincial government is lashing out at "street racers", yet the every day driving habits of a large portion of its population are deplorable- they might as well all be considered "street racers".

This goes hand in hand with the proposed legislation that makes it legal for the OPP to tow and crush your car if it is suspected of having performance parts installed specifically for the purposes of street racing. Pardon me, but how can you tell if the turbo that I've installed is for street or track use?

This is literally another one of the Ontario provincial governments cop outs- a stepping stone that helps create a path of action and responsibility. The problem is that it leads away from the government taking proactive steps and towards the government finding half-assed solutions.

Don't believe me? Look at the situation in Caledonia, or how about the native protest that shut down sections of the 401 and Via rail lines- oh, did I forget to mention that they were armed?

So the government, rather than find constructive solutions, shifts the blame to something recognizable, just as George Bush did after 9/11. Then again, I don't blame them- it is easier than actually doing something about it.

[GTS Jeff]

Originally posted by Antonito
You have no concept of what a right is, do you? It's not something you want, it's what is outlined by whatever jurisdictional powers you live under. Haha you should run for UN Secretary General. You obviously know what you're talking about. :rofl:

[01RedDX]

.

[Redlyne_mr2]

hahah Ontario is the gayest place in the world... once again they just reaffirmed themselves.

[BrknFngrs]

does ontario have the traffic law we do about slowing to 50 when an emergency vehicle is on the side of the road with lights flashing?

If so this is hilarious, some cop looking to fill his quoto for the CENTURY could just park his car around a corner on the highway, lights flashing and nail every car for going 50 over.

I think its a safe bet that quota's will be going up in Ontario...

[95EagleAWD]

Originally posted by Redlyne_mr2
hahah Ontario is the gayest place in the world... once again they just reaffirmed themselves.

Ontario rules compared to Alberta.

Beaches, good weather, no snow, hot girls, real cities, decent fucking roads in the cities....

I fucking hate it here most days. I miss being two blocks from the beach on the 2nd biggest freshwater lake in the world.

The only good thing about Alberta is the mountains.

[Redlyne_mr2]

Originally posted by 95EagleAWD


Ontario rules compared to Alberta.

Beaches, good weather, no snow, hot girls, real cities, decent fucking roads in the cities....

I fucking hate it here most days. I miss being two blocks from the beach on the 2nd biggest freshwater lake in the world.

The only good thing about Alberta is the mountains.
Thats because you live in Edmonton man lol. I would miss the beach too if I used to live a few blocks from it. Sadly thought most people in Ontario dont live near the beach must like most peope in Alberta dont live near the mountains.

[Antonito]

Originally posted by 01RedDX


ummm... what? :nut: :dunno:

It just bugs me when people think they have rights that they don't. There are a very well defined set of rights provided by Canada, and there are some international rights that apply as well, but that's it as far as Canadians go. Beyond that, no matter what anyone thinks, if it isn't a law, it isn't a right.

So until someone shows me the part of the Charter of Rights or any other Canadian law that says that it's your right to be fined using an old version of a changed law, I'll refuse to think that it's a right.

[JRSC00LUDE]

Originally posted by DayGlow
"snippity"

You do make some very good points Dayglow, I'll concede on this one. :)

[Inzane]

Originally posted by 95EagleAWD
Why do so many people on Beyond care about Ontario laws?

No one is going to crush your car out here people.

Not YET.

What you're forgetting is the power of ** precedent **.

Look at this cell phone thing. Newfoundland (I think it was) has that cell phone law (while driving), and now OUR premier wants to implement that law here in OUR province. (not that I'm necessarily against that... It might be a GOOD thing... I'm just using this as an example).

You can't keep blinders on to what's going on the rest of our country. Sooner or later things elsewhere will have an effect on us.

Emissions testing... we're damn lucky here in Alberta, but how long until we get that?

Front license plate... again, lucky. Who knows, but hopefully they never come back here!

[SilverRex]

I wonder how long before every province will adapter the same rules and penelty.

its going to suck,

as much as I agree how going 50 over is a danger to public safety, but as a drive myself, the ocassional blast to 150-200 to keep my car afloat will be a turn off.

I mean if this goes across canada, then might as well limit the top speed of all the cars,

man kinda makes me think twice before getting my next car.

back to a civic?

:banghead:

but the best part now is, it makes building a drag strip and race track much more attractive. ok whos in on this investment.

[googe]

Originally posted by DayGlow
wwaaaa it's my right to drive 50+ over the limit. :cry:

youd say that if it was 20,000, 100,000, or the death penalty too, wouldnt you?

why do so many cops miss the point?

[JRSC00LUDE]

Originally posted by googe
why do so many cops miss the point?

From the posts he has made it's not that he's missed the point, it that he has a differenet perspective on the situation as a whole given his job. I appreciate that he's backed up his opinion with solid arguments, that's more than can be said for most of the people that argue on this forum (not directed to anyone in particular).

[403Gemini]

Originally posted by googe


youd say that if it was 20,000, 100,000, or the death penalty too, wouldnt you?

why do so many cops miss the point?

Whats the point of going 50 over the limit?

[googe]

Originally posted by 403Gemini


Whats the point of going 50 over the limit?

Wow, you REALLY missed the point.

You'll make a great cop! :thumbsup:

[403Gemini]

Originally posted by googe


Wow, you REALLY missed the point.

You'll make a great cop! :thumbsup:

Glad i'm not a cop! :thumbsup:

Can you answer my question please?

I dont see why people are up in arms about getting a ridiculous ticket for going ridiculously fast. The ONLY situation i can see it feesable is rage's situation in another thread on passing another vehicle on the highway.

[Crymson]

The problem is that they're labeling anyone over 50 as a STREET RACER. I think we'd be fine if they called it an automatic dangerous driving ticket.

[googe]

Originally posted by 403Gemini


Glad i'm not a cop! :thumbsup:

Can you answer my question please?


No, because your question has nothing to do with the issue at hand. We aren't debating whether or not we should be going 50 over.

[ex1z7]

my car wont even GO 50 over the highway limit.. so I'm good..

but I agree with the 10,000 $ thing, the impound car / lose license thing .. Because really, there IS no reason to go 50 over - even if the posted limit is 110 and you're going 160 - please, nobody on the 401 (in ontario..) should be going 160, anywhere.. If someone turns into your lane without shoulder checking you've got a pretty good chance of owning them.. Or dying.. Whatever.

The street racer label is pretty retarded, if there were 2 cars going 50+ over then I'd understand, but one on a deserted highway? Yeah.. Street racing the turtle on the side of the road maybe ?

And the not being able to argue it in court is such a crock of shit. errors are made all the time and having your car cubed and losing your license and a hit of about 10k - PLUS the label.. That's bullshit -IF- it was an error. Most of that is bullshit without an error but not being able to fight is so retarded.

Man, I think I'm just going to get out of here soon.. this place is going downhill pretty hard.

[DayGlow]

Originally posted by googe


youd say that if it was 20,000, 100,000, or the death penalty too, wouldnt you?

why do so many cops miss the point?

No genius, I say a $2000 to $10000 dollar fine is perfect, plus the seizure of the vehicle.

From what I read the fine range is between 2g and 10g. So really 10 to 1 someone flying down the road at 50 over will get around $2g in fines. The media jumped on the 10g figure because it sells headlines. There are other ways to get a 10g fine, say your 3rd no insurance ticket.

Sounds reasonable to me for such an unreasonable amount of speed over the limit.

50 over is huge. It would be different if the limit for this law is say 30 over or so, but when you approach 50 over you have no escuse for what you are doing. I fully agree that somewhere you need to say this is too much and anyone caught doing it will be punished heavily.

This law has zero effect on car enuthists and any person with a brain in their head. What it will do is remove asshats from the road that make it dangerous for everyone else.

[DayGlow]

Originally posted by ex1z7
The street racer label is pretty retarded, if there were 2 cars going 50+ over then I'd understand, but one on a deserted highway? Yeah.. Street racing the turtle on the side of the road maybe ?

Why do you have to be racing against someone else to get the label 'racing'? To race means to move rapidily, not just a sport where you are racing against another vehicle.

[Crymson]

Originally posted by DayGlow


Why do you have to be racing against someone else to get the label 'racing'? To race means to move rapidily, not just a sport where you are racing against another vehicle.

MABEY i would buy that, if you were caught going 160km/hr on a highway, between two guys with stop watches. THAT is racing, going fast is SPEEDING, albeit DANGEROUSLY, they may even be an offense already on the books for that. Something like driving dangersously, or dangersously driving, or even recklessly endangering the public? Go figure.

It's a publicity stunt so that the Ontario gov't can look like they're doing something. The media jumps on a death caused by excessive speed, calls it "street racing". This just allows the ontario govt to say they charged 8000 people with "street racing" and that they're clearing fixing the problem.

Jesus guys, try and see through the bullshit here.


Here. This will prove my point.

http://www.toronto-subaru-club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=101392

For anyone who can't be bothered to read a lengthy and articulate thread. I'll sum it up for you.

In May, the Toronto Subaru owners club, caught wind of this ammendment that was about to be passed. They organized a sit down with Donna Cansfield, an ontario member of parliment AND the ontario TRANSPORT MINISTER.

They asked all kinds of questions, and brought up all kinds of concerns. Stuff like "we're concerned how racing will be defined" "We're concerned about descrimination based on vehicle type and cosmetic modification". Honest, and legimite questions that would be posed by articulate members of the "tuner" community.

She fed them back, ALL the bullshit they want to hear. Said that she respects and understands their hobby, and is sensitive to their fears, and that they're feedback will be very valuable when the definations of racing and the powers held by police officers are discussed. She said that she wanted to have representatives from their car club sit down with legislator, mps, and police officials before passing the ammendment to make sure that the police powers are clearly and unabiguously defined and the offences are equally well defined. Everyone walked away feeling happy.

Guess what happened? Fuck all -- they passed the law, without so much as calling these guys back about all their concerns or consulting them. They passed an ambigous and easily corruptable act. Why? Because it made them look good.

[JRSC00LUDE]

Not to get back into it just to quote the dictionary but the definition of "racing" is:

1. a contest of speed, as in running, riding, driving, or sailing.
2. races, a series of races, usually of horses or dogs, run at a set time over a regular course: They spent a day at the races.
3. any contest or competition, esp. to achieve superiority: the arms race; the presidential race.
4. urgent need, responsibility, effort, etc., as when time is short or a solution is imperative: the race to find an effective vaccine.
5. onward movement; an onward or regular course.
^
(so moving at any speed could be considered racing)

6. the course of time.
7. the course of life or a part of life.
8. Geology. a. a strong or rapid current of water, as in the sea or a river.
b. the channel or bed of such a current or of any stream.

9. an artificial channel leading water to or from a place where its energy is utilized.
10. the current of water in such a channel.
11. Also called raceway. Machinery. a channel, groove, or the like, for sliding or rolling a part or parts, as the balls of a ball bearing.
12. Textiles. a. the float between adjacent rows of pile.
b. race plate.

–verb (used without object) 13. to engage in a contest of speed; run a race.
14. to run horses or dogs in races; engage in or practice horse racing or dog racing.
15. to run, move, or go swiftly.
16. (of an engine, wheel, etc.) to run with undue or uncontrolled speed when the load is diminished without corresponding diminution of fuel, force, etc.
–verb (used with object) 17. to run a race against; try to beat in a contest of speed: I'll race you to the water.
18. to enter (a horse, car, track team, or the like) in a race or races.
19. to cause to run, move, or go at high speed: to race a motor.
^
(100km/hr is a high speed so it should be considered racing)


Hence the original argument that the label doesn't fit the crime in ALL situations. Remember here that nobody has said you shouldn't be fined for going 50 over, we said you shouldn't be automatically fined under the STREET RACING SECTION OF THE ACT IF THE CRIME WASN'T RELATED TO STREET RACING.

THERE IS A DIFFERENCE BETWEEN SPEEDING AND STREET RACING IS THE ONLY REAL BONE OF CONTENTION HERE I THINK.

[GTS Jeff]

Originally posted by DayGlow


Why do you have to be racing against someone else to get the label 'racing'? To race means to move rapidily, not just a sport where you are racing against another vehicle. Nope. Racing implies competition, in this case, a contest of speed. Go look it up. Come on, stop living up to your signature and admit that you're wrong. Just once.

[403Gemini]

lol who cares? We all seem to be agreeing that 50 over the limit is stupid, so what does it matter if they call you a street racer or title you the asshole of the year?

[Crymson]

I care.

[DayGlow]

Originally posted by GTS Jeff
Nope. Racing implies competition, in this case, a contest of speed. Go look it up. Come on, stop living up to your signature and admit that you're wrong. Just once.

So it's improper english when I state, "I was late so I raced home"?

Race as a competition is a small part. When looking at this law I see it connitates that someone that is going over 50 over the limit they are doing for the thrill of it. Be it racing against someone else, the clock, their personal best, etc, they are still racing. Someone going that speed is doing it for the pleasure of hitting the speed.

I have no problem labelling someone that blasts down the highway at 160 as a racer. Why is it so bad?

[JRSC00LUDE]

Originally posted by 403Gemini
so what does it matter if they call you a street racer or title you the asshole of the year?

I care, I don't need anyone else stealing my title. I worked hard to be asshole of the year and I won't stand for it being cheapened! :D

[TheCheff]

yeah + 1 I love swimming in acid rain and the only reason its fucking hot is cause the dirty smog of the city doesnt let the heat escape all my relatives live their and im glad we moved out here. Calgary is 100x better then ontario


Originally posted by 95EagleAWD


Ontario rules compared to Alberta.

Beaches, good weather, no snow, hot girls, real cities, decent fucking roads in the cities....

I fucking hate it here most days. I miss being two blocks from the beach on the 2nd biggest freshwater lake in the world.

The only good thing about Alberta is the mountains.

[403Gemini]

Originally posted by JRSC00LUDE


I care, I don't need anyone else stealing my title. I worked hard to be asshole of the year and I won't stand for it being cheapened! :D

lol :thumbsup:

[GTS Jeff]

Originally posted by DayGlow


So it's improper english when I state, "I was late so I raced home"?

Race as a competition is a small part. When looking at this law I see it connitates that someone that is going over 50 over the limit they are doing for the thrill of it. Be it racing against someone else, the clock, their personal best, etc, they are still racing. Someone going that speed is doing it for the pleasure of hitting the speed.

I have no problem labelling someone that blasts down the highway at 160 as a racer. Why is it so bad? Hey don't argue with me, go read up Webster and take it up with them.

I'm a racer. I auto-x sometimes and I've even gone down the quarter mile on occasion. By your simplistic outlook, I am also a reckless driver that blasts around 50km above the limit.

Come on, man up and admit to being wrong.

[GTS Jeff]

And don't try to tell me that Joe Random is "racing" against his personal best as he drives down the highway at 160. Chances are, he's just cruising along enjoying his tunes, rather than being like "oh boy, I'm racing against my personal best, what a rush, after this I'm gonna go kill some hookers."

[jacksun]

I don't mean to burst anyone's bubble, but there is no discussion of any "rights" when it comes to driving. In all provinces and territories of Canada driving is a privilege. If the government issues you a driver's license, they are granting you a privilege which can be withdrawn if you fail to obey the applicable laws. An easy example of this is the demerit points system, which has been in place forever. Once you get a certain number of demerits, you lose your license for a specific period of time. You have a suspended license, you can't register a vehicle therefore you cannot own a vehicle that is on the road.

If you drink and drive, cops in Alberta can seize your car and suspend your drivers license without recourse to a hearing.

Why? because driving is a privilege. So is registering a car.

How does the fine, seizure, and suspension in Ontario differ? It doesn't, it simply reflects the potential impact this behavior can have on other people.

Racing is not an "oops" I'm sorry for going a bit too fast, or I missed the stop sign. Racing is a conscious decision to intentionally break the laws and place others in potential danger. If you want to race, go to the racetrack on a raceday and play.

This law needs to be in place across Canada.

Racing on a street is stupid, dangerous, and extremely risky.

Here is a thread about what can happen. The impact I can't begin to explain to you. But when you choose to street race, you may be responsible for something that doesn't just impact you, and someone may be paying for your poor judgement for the rest of their lives. Not to mention you WILL be paying for it for the rest of yours.

Accident caused by street racing (http://forums.beyond.ca/st/186773/anyone-see-the-accident-on-68th/)

[DayGlow]

Originally posted by GTS Jeff
Hey don't argue with me, go read up Webster and take it up with them.

I'm a racer. I auto-x sometimes and I've even gone down the quarter mile on occasion. By your simplistic outlook, I am also a reckless driver that blasts around 50km above the limit.

Come on, man up and admit to being wrong.

If you do it on a public road then, yes you are reckless. If you do it on a closed circuit then, no you are not.

Key word here, public road.

[DayGlow]

Originally posted by GTS Jeff
And don't try to tell me that Joe Random is "racing" against his personal best as he drives down the highway at 160. Chances are, he's just cruising along enjoying his tunes, rather than being like "oh boy, I'm racing against my personal best, what a rush, after this I'm gonna go kill some hookers."

if someone is just cruising down the highway at 160 then he deserves to lose his license.

[Sharpie]

Originally posted by DayGlow


if someone is just cruising down the highway at 160 then he deserves to lose his license.
you make it sound like 160 is super fast....it really isn't, try it out and let me know.

[euro_racer]

Originally posted by DayGlow


if someone is just cruising down the highway at 160 then he deserves to lose his license.

ok so he would lose his lisence...but was he "racing" or speeding 50 over is what jeff is trying to say, and i agree

here is a nice saying i found a while back about "racing"
"Racing has been around since the second car was built and before that was horses"

key word would be 2nd car, one vs another

[GTS Jeff]

Originally posted by DayGlow


If you do it on a public road then, yes you are reckless. If you do it on a closed circuit then, no you are not.

Key word here, public road. LOL you missed the point, either intentionally or not, I don't know. My point was that you are illdefining the word racing, which is the same contention that everyone has with this bill. The bottom line is that "racing" is a CONTEST of speed/time, whereas driving fast in and of itself does not necessarily constitute any contest whatsoever.

It's your job to enforce the law, I know, and I applaud you for doing a job that most can't, BUT that doesn't mean you have to be mindless about it. :banghead:

[GTS Jeff]

Originally posted by DayGlow


if someone is just cruising down the highway at 160 then he deserves to lose his license. But WHYYYYY? How is it any different from everyone else who is cruising at 120-130? Is there some sort of law of physics that dictates that at 160 you must shut your eyes and become a blind and dangerous driver? It is totally unthinkable that a person might have the capacity to be safe at 20km/h, 30, 50...120, 130, and holy heavens forbid, 160? Will some sort of sonic boom occur at 160 that kills all nearby cute animals?

Geez. :banghead:

[GTS Jeff]

Originally posted by Sharpie

you make it sound like 160 is super fast....it really isn't, try it out and let me know. DayGlow's car is governed at 160 by its protection circuits "highandmighty" and "holierthanthou."

[bart]

there are people who deserve to lose their license going 110, and there are others who can go 200+ safely.

[BigMass]

Originally posted by GTS Jeff
DayGlow's car is governed at 160 by its protection circuits "highandmighty" and "holierthanthou."

rofl

[Canmorite]

Fucking Ontarible.

[Canmorite]

Originally posted by GTS Jeff
And don't try to tell me that Joe Random is "racing" against his personal best as he drives down the highway at 160. Chances are, he's just cruising along enjoying his tunes, rather than being like "oh boy, I'm racing against my personal best, what a rush, after this I'm gonna go kill some hookers."

:rofl: :rofl:

[A790]

Originally posted by 95EagleAWD


Ontario rules compared to Alberta.

Beaches, good weather, no snow, hot girls, real cities, decent fucking roads in the cities....

I fucking hate it here most days. I miss being two blocks from the beach on the 2nd biggest freshwater lake in the world.

The only good thing about Alberta is the mountains.

LOL is that so?

Beaches - Yes, but they're so overcrowded there's no point in going (unless you love having someones head in your ass the entire time).

Good weather - eh? In the winter time the humidity can keep it temperate, but when it gets cold it gets cold.

Hot girls - Uhh... too bad they're all bar-sluts. Wanna hear something funny? London, ON has the highest amount of STD's per capita... yum yum, I want some random tail :thumbsup:

Real cities - Sure, one. Toronto is the only real city, and everything else around it is just periphery. It's not even a city... it's like a blob of highways and houses. Gross.

No snow - Are you serious? London got hit so hard last year the entire city was shut down for TWO DAYS. The mayor broadcast a non-essential employee shutdown. Ontario gets as much, if not MORE snow, than Alberta. And besides, Chinooks take the snow from Alberta in a week or so anyway.

Decent roads - Again, up for interpretation here. Some areas are really lacking.

Dude, if you used to live here than you already know all this. It sounds to me like you're just homesick.