Availability of 3rd Gen 3sgte's in Canada

[Redlyne_mr2]

I know JDM source has these in stock once in a while but from what I've heard they don't have any right now. Ill get in touch with them this week to confirm but just checking what else is out there for 3rd gen 3sgtes? thanks

[jvillain]

Is this for you? If so why G3?

[Milk2%]

stock for stock you will get more hp out of the 3rd gen. unless you plan on building up the engine i would stick with the 2nd gen, 3rd gens tend to crack along the block of cylinder 3-4. Maybe we can source a 3rd gen gtfour block and i can take the tranny while you take the block. let me know!

[Redlyne_mr2]

Originally posted by jvillain
Is this for you? If so why G3?
Well thought about it long and hard. I can either buy a fully built g2 or get a g3 and enjoy it until I want even more power, at which point upgrading it wont be a big issue.

If I build g2 (at least $3K) I still need an intake manifold, cams, fuel rail, LSD (another $3K)

If I get a g3 (3-4K) I have the fuel for 300-350whp, the intake manifold doesnt need to be changed, there is an LSD, the head is better, the cams are better and thats just right out of the box. When I do go for more hp all I need is new injectors, and a standalone.

[jvillain]

That is a pretty unfair comparison. The story of the power differences between the two generations seems to keep growing the more it is told. The idea that all you have to do to get 300hp out of a stock G3 is turn up the boost is pure BS. I have heard that story tossed around here a lot and have been biting my toung.

The G3 is only a better engine up to ~300hp. With the mods you have to make to get past that the changes are moot. The G3 came with a bit more power from the factory. ~20- 30hp at the engine. Yes I have read the crap from the local used engine guys claiming the the G3 shipped with up to 250hp stock. It didn't. And keep in mind that most of that extra power came from uping the boost and adding timing.

If your G2 isn't going to get you to 300 then just going to a gen3 isn't either.

The viscus LSD is nice for a 250hp car. But if you are looking for -350 you need to get a better LSD. If you are going road racing you will need a better one before 300hp. Either a clutch type or a helical. After that you are stuck at 300hp, you spent 4 grand and you have no true power adders to use as a jumping off point.

The first thing to do is decide what your real goals are. 300 or 350. There is a huge difference in what it takes to to make each one. Then take a look at what you really need to get there. The least economical way to do either is to buy a used engine that you are just going to have to start modifying any ways.

But it's your money. Spend it as you like.

[Redlyne_mr2]

The oem lsd is fine for road racing from what Ive read, Hyde has been using it and has done very very well. I like the fact that I can just bolt on my turbo kit and go, the g2 involves too much messing around. If I decide to go to 400hp its 850cc, power fc and thats pretty much it.

[jvillain]

Just want to check I have the math right. Base boost is ~15psi on the gen 3 and it puts ~200hp to the wheels. So @ ~10hp per psi ( you won't actually see 10 hp) your going to run 35psi of boost is that the idea? Have you found a source for E-85 or are you just gonna be running diesel?

There is some thing that I have been wondering for a while now. I have seen post after post where people get on here and say that their gen 3 swap always knocks on pump gas but then I see just as many posts saying you can just crank it up another 5, 10, 15psi hell just keep cranking the knob and every thing will be fine. I've got to be honest. I don't get it.

I don't mean to get on your case. But I suggest you do a search on volumetric efficiency over at MR2OC and especially how it relates to turbos.

[A790]

Originally posted by jvillain
Just want to check I have the math right. Base boost is ~15psi on the gen 3 and it puts ~200hp to the wheels. So @ ~10hp per psi ( you won't actually see 10 hp) your going to run 35psi of boost is that the idea? Have you found a source for E-85 or are you just gonna be running diesel?

There is some thing that I have been wondering for a while now. I have seen post after post where people get on here and say that their gen 3 swap always knocks on pump gas but then I see just as many posts saying you can just crank it up another 5, 10, 15psi hell just keep cranking the knob and every thing will be fine. I've got to be honest. I don't get it.

I don't mean to get on your case. But I suggest you do a search on volumetric efficiency over at MR2OC and especially how it relates to turbos.

The stock boost on a G3 motor is 13 psi, and mine doesn't knock at all. And, if that stock G3 only puts down 200 whp that's 45 HP loss in its drivetrain, which is pretty high. It's probably closer to 220 whp or so.

[Redlyne_mr2]

Originally posted by jvillain
Just want to check I have the math right. Base boost is ~15psi on the gen 3 and it puts ~200hp to the wheels. So @ ~10hp per psi ( you won't actually see 10 hp) your going to run 35psi of boost is that the idea? Have you found a source for E-85 or are you just gonna be running diesel?

There is some thing that I have been wondering for a while now. I have seen post after post where people get on here and say that their gen 3 swap always knocks on pump gas but then I see just as many posts saying you can just crank it up another 5, 10, 15psi hell just keep cranking the knob and every thing will be fine. I've got to be honest. I don't get it.

I don't mean to get on your case. But I suggest you do a search on volumetric efficiency over at MR2OC and especially how it relates to turbos.
Shaun,
Im not really concerned on stock performance what i like about the g3 is the fuel system, i have 550s not being used because i have nothing to control them other than a rom tune that doesnt work with my turbo. Which means Id have to go standalone and thats another 1600 plus tuning. With the g3 i can use the stock ecu, the stock 540s, my blitz turbo kit and berk IC kit, and I should be able to lay down some fast times on the roadcourse.

[stevo 27]

Originally posted by Redlyne_mr2
, i have 550s not being used because i have nothing to control them other than a rom tune that doesnt work with my turbo. Which means Id have to go standalone

hey redlyne why dont you just get a piggy back 550's are
very tunnable, you have the turbo kit , insted of spending

3-4k on basically the same motor you have why not just spend

500 on a piggyback ??

[Redlyne_mr2]

cause piggybacks arent really the best way to go man, rather just put the cash towards a standalone.. how has yoru experience been with piggybacks. ?

[stevo 27]

meh everyone keeps telling me i wont be able to control
the 880's with the emanage blue my tuner said i will be fine
but just a bit rich till i hit boost so basically shoot flames out the
exhaust at WOT (wicked) because of the extra fuel before boost

and he is the one with god knows how many degree's in computer science and has tuned thosends of car's


but your right standalone is the only way to go it would be better t go that route than buying a g3

g3 3-4k

standalone 1600
cams 600
intake 1000

and you already have the turbo kit and the injectors right
so then you can push the motor to the absoulute limit of the 550's
and if you need more bigger injectors pistons and rods ect

with the g3 if you decide you want more youll have to do injectors ecu intake manifold cams then pistons rods ect ect



i just dont wanna see you spend your money on a g3 when you already have a g2 wich all in all is the same because if you wanna
make some real power you have to change out everything that makes the g3 better anyway

[red99600]

g3 is more powerful right from the factory,
everything is engineered and built with the best tolerances

a hand built g2 is more powerful but reliability will become an issue.

it all depends on what your power goals are.
if you are looking for low ~300hp, then a g3 maybe the way to go.

[jvillain]

g3 is more powerful right from the factory,
Yes it is. One of the ways it does that is by using smaller intake runners and loosing the TVIS plate and egr. Those smaller runners make more power when you aren't flowing much air. Once you start to flow more air they become a bottle neck before the gen2.

Go back and look at the dyno charts for people who are running stock heads, cams and intakes but have other upgrades like turbos, fuel, ecu's, injectors etc,etc. What you will find is that they peak out right around 300hp on both the gen2 and gen 3. The reason being that neither engine can flow more air with out VE upgrades.

But hey if I am wrong, please post a link to a dyno graph where some one is making significantly more than 300rwhp with out VE upgrades. Gen 1, 2, 3. Gen 4 might get you there. They are so hard to source here though that it is hard to say.


everything is engineered and built with the best tolerances

Please point to any difference in the tolerances between the gen 2 and gen 3. Best tolerances is a mean nothing phrase without a reference. Best for what? I can go on but it will save me a lot of typing if you indicate what you mean by best first.


a hand built g2 is more powerful but reliability will become an issue.

Why is that? Are you familiar with the phase balanced and blue printed? The reason why people build engines is because the stock stuff is likely to become undependable in a spectacular way. A properly built engine of either gen 2 or 3 will be far more dependable than a stock engine at any given power level. Sure some one making 400whp may only get 20,000 miles out of their engine. But they probably wouldn't have made it out of the drive way with the stock engine.

[envoyondubs]

pulse crx just bought one from jdm hes swapping it in right now

[stevo 27]

Originally posted by jvillain

But hey if I am wrong, please post a link to a dyno graph where some one is making significantly more than 300rwhp with out VE upgrades.






http://www.mr2ownersclub.com/mr2records/dyno/rmartinez432.jpg

[jvillain]

with out VE upgrades.

Full-Race Manifold

If you can provide the board name of the person who has this dyno I bet I can prove he is running cams as well.

[stevo 27]

Originally posted by jvillain


Full-Race Manifold

If you can provide the board name of the person who has this dyno I bet I can prove he is running cams as well.


ok an exhaust manifold i guess you could consider the exhaust an ve mod as well

i dont think he's running cams look at the power band and peak power is under 6000 rpm

[jvillain]

A huge turbo like the GT-35 will help the VE of the exhaust side a lot but I just couldn't picture doing all the other changes and not doing cams. It makes no sense. You can make the power where ever you want by changing the cam timing and ignition timing. Which again leads me to believe he is running cams and timing gears.

[stevo 27]

we will see when i hit the dyno i have a gt35r and stock cams
and cam gears

but this isnt about that

Redlyne have you decided on what your doing yet

[Redlyne_mr2]

I dont know Shaun, thats not the first g3 Ive seen to make lots of power without cams... thats another reason Im leaning towards that. I think a bpu g3 is what woudl suit my needs.

[jvillain]

We'll it's your project so what ever you do good luck. If you pull the trigger on the G3 let me know. I might want your old G2.

[Redlyne_mr2]

for sure man.. youve gone so far with a g2 that it wouldnt make sense for you to go with anything else.

[stevo 27]

so when are you picking up the g3 :bigpimp: