Does Alberta need aircare (or equivalent)? [Archive] - Beyond.ca - Car Forums

rc2002

09-13-2007, 08:11 PM

As of late, I'm finding it to be a more and more common occurrence to find myself following behind a car that does not belong on the road when driving. It's especially bad in a roadster but even in a sedan, the recirc button is really seeing a lot of use.

Even a redneck city like Alberta needs to get on the ball and get some of this trash off the road. Here are some honourable mentions for worst polluter:

-Diesel pickup trucks (the worst ones are the ones with lift kits)
-Old diesel VWs
-Old Diesel City Buses
-Cars without mufflers or with rusted-out mufflers

Sharpie

09-13-2007, 08:16 PM

No... but yes to some extent because then they will bitch about modded cars..

ercchry

09-13-2007, 08:20 PM

what will rotory owners do?

TomcoPDR

09-13-2007, 08:20 PM

No, this is what Alberta's all about.

gpomp

09-13-2007, 08:21 PM

Originally posted by TomcoPDR
No, this is what Alberta's all about.
exactly. cars like mine would never pass.

SilverBoost

09-13-2007, 08:38 PM

Sounds like you have a problem with diesels specifically?

Toms-SC

09-13-2007, 09:36 PM

Originally posted by gpomp

exactly. cars like mine would never pass.

x 2

The modded car scene would die and muffler shops would be booked for years.

rc2002

09-13-2007, 10:23 PM

Originally posted by SilverBoost
Sounds like you have a problem with diesels specifically?

Yeah it's the diesel that really bugs me. Guys with no catalytic converters are OK - I can stomach that. I'd actually be quite happy if we had the same specs for diesel engines that europeans do.

Energieballa

09-13-2007, 10:37 PM

If a law like that was to be passed modded cars would be unable to be driven. But than people will just have to cheat there way around it and find a guy to pay to pass there vehicle for them.

SHO

09-13-2007, 10:56 PM

Air care is a swear word....SHushhhhhh!!

A790

09-13-2007, 11:03 PM

Originally posted by Energieballa
If a law like that was to be passed modded cars would be unable to be driven. But than people will just have to cheat there way around it and find a guy to pay to pass there vehicle for them.

So what do BC/ON do? :rolleyes: Or are you saying that there is absolutely no modded cars anywhere that there are emissions requirements?

My MR2 came from Ontario modded and passed emissions there without a problem. Hmmmm....

forkdork

09-14-2007, 12:36 AM

Originally posted by richardchan2002

Yeah it's the diesel that really bugs me. Guys with no catalytic converters are OK - I can stomach that.

Which is funny because the gasoline cars are already polluting more than diesels with their emissions equipment intact. So even if emissions testing was implemented you would still have to deal with the diesels (even the modded diesels which can put out tons of smoke under wot pass through emissions testing without problems). Thats why you can still find so many older diesels in places with testing like ontario and bc.

benyl

09-14-2007, 08:44 AM

Diesels are worse for particulate emissions. Modded or not.

Ever been to London and picked your nose at the end of the day? The black stuff on your finger is diesel particulate.

Most of the modded diesel trucks are just dumping unburnt fuel into the atmosphere. That is what the big plume of smoke is. Non-moded diesel can run clean with no smoke, no stink and no noise.

But hell, if I had a diesel, you would swear I was burning oil... hahahahahha

QuasarCav

09-14-2007, 08:47 AM

Originally posted by benyl
Diesels are worse for particulate emissions. Modded or not.

Ever been to London and picked your nose at the end of the day? The black stuff on your finger is diesel particulate.

Most of the modded diesel trucks are just dumping unburnt fuel into the atmosphere. That is what the big plume of smoke is. Non-moded diesel can run clean with no smoke, no stink and no noise.

But hell, if I had a diesel, you would swear I was burning oil... hahahahahha

How can Forkdork say that the modded diesels would pass emissions? Wouldn't the particulate cause them to fail or is that not measured. I know that is the biggest concern in my opinion. There is nothing like driving through a cloud of black smoke because a jacked up truck gunned it through the intersection.

I'm all for air-care.

benyl

09-14-2007, 09:00 AM

Originally posted by QuasarCav

How can Forkdork say that the modded diesels would pass emissions? Wouldn't the particulate cause them to fail or is that not measured. I know that is the biggest concern in my opinion. There is nothing like driving through a cloud of black smoke because a jacked up truck gunned it through the intersection.

I'm all for air-care.

I don't know what he is talking about. Diesels from VW and from MB are only 42 state legal now. They do not pass CARB standards.

http://www.dieselnet.com/standards/
http://www.dieselnet.com/standards/us/ca_diesel.php

whiskas

09-14-2007, 09:18 AM

What do mufflers have to do with emissions.

Toms-SC

09-14-2007, 09:21 AM

Originally posted by whiskas
What do mufflers have to do with emissions.

fail

benyl

09-14-2007, 09:45 AM

Originally posted by whiskas
What do mufflers have to do with emissions.

:banghead: :banghead:

Mitsu3000gt

09-14-2007, 10:04 AM

I read that hybird cars are actually worse for the environment because plugging in your car all of the time uses electricity (obviously), and the coal burned to make that energy to recharge your hybrid during its life puts more pollution into the atmosphere than a regular gasoline car does in it's life. Any thoughts? Again, it was just something I read, I don't necessarily agree or disagree with the statement.

rc2002

09-14-2007, 10:29 AM

:dunno: Not sure which hybrid cars you're thinking of, but they don't need plugging in. They use the motor as a generator to charge a battery when your foot is not on the gas. Your gas engine charges the battery, not electricity.

Mitsu3000gt

09-14-2007, 10:48 AM

Originally posted by richardchan2002
:dunno: Not sure which hybrid cars you're thinking of, but they don't need plugging in. They use the motor as a generator to charge a battery when your foot is not on the gas. Your gas engine charges the battery, not electricity.

I don't know what cars the article was refering to specifically, but I did think some of them had to be plugged in. Perhaps it was talking about pure-elecric cars but I can't think of any.

SilverBoost

09-14-2007, 11:09 AM

Let's not forget that the Smart car is a diesel.

And as for modded cars in emissions strict areas, well there are tons of ways around that, and it's not always about cheating the system.

forkdork

09-14-2007, 12:05 PM

Originally posted by benyl

I don't know what he is talking about. Diesels from VW and from MB are only 42 state legal now. They do not pass CARB standards.

http://www.dieselnet.com/standards/
http://www.dieselnet.com/standards/us/ca_diesel.php

What does the regulations for new cars have to do with an emissions testing system like BC's aircare or Ontarios Drive clean programs?

Old diesels still pass through regular emissions testing that is in place (IE aircare). So even if emissions testing for OLDER CARS (which fyi, is what this thread is about) was implemented, most of the diesel cars you see on the road today would still be on the roads because the tests for diesels are quite easy to pass (They only check that the opacity of the exhaust is below 45%).

gpomp

09-14-2007, 01:33 PM

Originally posted by Mitsu3000gt

I don't know what cars the article was refering to specifically, but I did think some of them had to be plugged in. Perhaps it was talking about pure-elecric cars but I can't think of any. there's not a single car you can buy right now that plugs into anything.

Antonito

09-14-2007, 01:42 PM

Aircare is just a cash grab that inconveniences everybody. If they could come up with a smart one that wasn't corrupt, then sure, but the one in BC is complete armed roberry without any benefits, and I hear the one in Ontario isn't much better. Basically all you have to do is detune your engine, go, pay your blood money, then retune it once you go around the corner. The environment gains nothing and you're out $20. If your car is a complete POS, they just make you go to an Aircare ceritified mechanic (note the certified part, so you can trace the kickback money) and spend a maximum set amount, and you get a years reprieve whether it passes or not.

I doubt the Alberta government would be much more likely to not turn it into a giant money sucking do nothing program.

As far as modded cars go, some are able to become compliant, but that typically takes a lot more money. I know lots of guys that would simply keep an Aircare motor around, and swap it in and out once a year. Bottom line, unless you're flush with cash, it'll be a pain in the ass

Spoons

09-14-2007, 02:01 PM

Doesn't Diesel burn more cleanly than gasoline though? :dunno:

tentacles

09-14-2007, 02:58 PM

The environment gains nothing and you're out $20. If your car is a complete POS, they just make you go to an Aircare ceritified mechanic (note the certified part, so you can trace the kickback money) and spend a maximum set amount, and you get a years reprieve whether it passes or not.

Well, it would also mean that really old cars would be junked sooner, if they can't be made to pass cheaply, I think that would be a bigger source of pollution than people with modified cars.

4doorj

09-14-2007, 04:18 PM

Originally posted by Mitsu3000gt
I read that hybird cars are actually worse for the environment because plugging in your car all of the time uses electricity (obviously), and the coal burned to make that energy to recharge your hybrid during its life puts more pollution into the atmosphere than a regular gasoline car does in it's life. Any thoughts? Again, it was just something I read, I don't necessarily agree or disagree with the statement.
i have no idea about this.. but someone told me to make the battery for the hybrid cars is whats bad... they place where they make it is like a dead zone because of the stuff...
beats me though... is this true???

Antonito

09-14-2007, 04:24 PM

Originally posted by tentacles

Well, it would also mean that really old cars would be junked sooner, if they can't be made to pass cheaply, I think that would be a bigger source of pollution than people with modified cars.

The older a car gets, the lower the price is to get it conditionally passed. If your choice is between paying $300 every year or trying to find another car, most people will pay the $300 because they don't have the luxury of spending more for more long term savings.

Rexxrally

09-14-2007, 04:44 PM

We all live in the shadow of huge refineries that spew out a gazillion times the pollution of a car, and they do it 24 hours a day, 7 days a week. Multiply that by the number of refineries in the province and especially the humungous ones up in the oilsands.

Now that you have that picture in your mind, let's ask the original question again: should Alberta bring in emissions testing for vehicles?

It's like standing on a the side of a river, worrying about your squirt gun leaking

alpha

09-14-2007, 05:15 PM

Originally posted by gpomp
there's not a single car you can buy right now that plugs into anything.

listen to this guy, he knows EVERYTHING. just ask him.

Right Duncan?

Spoons

09-14-2007, 05:35 PM

I don't know who told you electric cars plug in?
I am pretty sure that when you break, it charges your battery.

gpomp

09-14-2007, 05:37 PM

Originally posted by Spoons
I don't know who told you electric cars plug in?
I am pretty sure that when you break, it charges your battery. what? you have to break it to charge it? that's not very practical.

alpha

09-14-2007, 05:40 PM

Originally posted by gpomp
what? you have to break it to charge it? that's not very practical.

you could have charged your car a bunch of times by now

Supa Dexta

09-14-2007, 07:51 PM

I watched cop follow car once down macleod into DT, and it was blowing so much blue smoke, you could lose site of it at times.. And the cop never pulled it over, blew my mind man.. blew my mind...

:burnout:

asifka

12-10-2007, 02:40 PM

Originally posted by Mitsu3000gt
I read that hybird cars are actually worse for the environment because plugging in your car all of the time uses electricity (obviously), and the coal burned to make that energy to recharge your hybrid during its life puts more pollution into the atmosphere than a regular gasoline car does in it's life. Any thoughts? Again, it was just something I read, I don't necessarily agree or disagree with the statement.

efficency of a coal plant is way better then efficency of a car engine. i dont know exact numbers tho.

Zero102

12-10-2007, 02:55 PM

Power plants are under MUCH stricter emissions requirements than cars on the roads. I don't know where people are getting these ideas from, but the coal plants in alberta are very clean. They have to be due to the amount of coal they process. If they polluted (on a relative scale) as much as cars we would be in some big trouble.

I am 100% for an aircare program, but with the reservation that it is actually motivated for helping the environment and not a cash grab for the government. I also agree that the OP really has something against diesels. Everybody hammers on diesel's for particulate emissions when all the new diesels have particulate filters. The new VW's are not legal in every state because they are using the PD engine, which does not yet have a DPF, next year when they release the CR TDI diesels they WILL have a DPF. That said, the PD TDI meets the euro IV emissions standards, which up until last year, were the strictest in the world. They introduced a new standard, and they are in the process of revising the engines to meet this standard, no big deal. I don't want to start an argument about whether diesel exhaust or gas engine exhaust is worse for the environment. Everybody has their own idea in their head of what is causing global warming and those ideas can stay put. Just because cars aren't the biggest polluters in the world doesn't mean we shouldn't have an aircare system (good old double negatives). We need to work on bringing emissions down in every reasonable way possible, and smog testing vehicles is a very reasonable and effective way.

If the government were to implement this in some way, I would expect government subsidies on the first year or two of testing (i.e. free testing, subsidized repairs) to help ease the transition. Once all registered vehicles in the province are certified the most expensive part is over, you just have to properly maintain your emissions system.

rc2002

12-10-2007, 03:12 PM

Originally posted by Zero102
I also agree that the OP really has something against diesels.

Originally posted by SilverBoost
Sounds like you have a problem with diesels specifically?

Originally posted by richardchan2002

Yeah it's the diesel that really bugs me.

Anytime I'm following a diesel, I have to use the recirc button, be it modded diesel or not. I'm very glad to see diesel prices surpassing gasoline prices. Hopefully the trend will continue until gasoline is more economical than diesel.

benyl

12-10-2007, 03:25 PM

walperstyle

12-10-2007, 06:31 PM

NO, I just came from BC. I dont want to have to go through another 10 years of Bullshit

walperstyle

12-10-2007, 06:32 PM

Originally posted by Rexxrally
We all live in the shadow of huge refineries that spew out a gazillion times the pollution of a car, and they do it 24 hours a day, 7 days a week. Multiply that by the number of refineries in the province and especially the humungous ones up in the oilsands.

Now that you have that picture in your mind, let's ask the original question again: should Alberta bring in emissions testing for vehicles?

It's like standing on a the side of a river, worrying about your squirt gun leaking

word

GC84ever

12-10-2007, 06:55 PM

Originally posted by richardchan2002
As of late, I'm finding it to be a more and more common occurrence to find myself following behind a car that does not belong on the road when driving. It's especially bad in a roadster but even in a sedan, the recirc button is really seeing a lot of use.

Even a redneck city like Alberta needs to get on the ball and get some of this trash off the road. Here are some honourable mentions for worst polluter:

-Diesel pickup trucks (the worst ones are the ones with lift kits)
-Old diesel VWs
-Old Diesel City Buses
-Cars without mufflers or with rusted-out mufflers

It would be nice not to get blinded by a cloud of black smoke.

But also about cars that don't belong on the road.
What about those cars that have practical no front end? The ones that look like they just rear ended someone. With their radiators exposed, bent hoods; and if you're lucky they still have one headlight that is attached and works.

Zero102

12-11-2007, 12:47 AM

Originally posted by richardchan2002

Anytime I'm following a diesel, I have to use the recirc button, be it modded diesel or not. I'm very glad to see diesel prices surpassing gasoline prices. Hopefully the trend will continue until gasoline is more economical than diesel.

I can't speak for everybody out there, but I take pride in the fact that my golf produces no visible smoke at any speed or throttle position. It has a puff in the mornings when it's cold out, but thats about it.

Diesels have a bad rep but its from people who do 1 of 2 things. 1) don't take care of it at all, let the vanes on the turbo get fouled so they don't adjust properly, drive with a bad maf, or worn out/plugged up injectors
2) add fuel, fuel, then some more fuel, and after that, just a little bit more fuel, all in the interest of making more power.

When you're tuning for power on a diesel you do get some smoke, but people with high powered diesels treat smoke like a bragging right, they intentionally tune it excessively rich on full power just to smoke more. People need to stop with that.

Modern diesels pollute no more than modern gasoline engines, but with diesel the pollutants are visible, with gas its the invisible gases that are bad for the atmosphere. The same thing goes for properly maintained engines from any recent era.

It's all in your perception, and unfortunately many people's perceptions of diesels are all wrong.

Big :thumbsdow to you for wishing hate on another person. Fuel is expensive enough already, let's just wish for it to go up more so I can pay even more to drive? Man, you seriously do have issues.

Bimmer88

12-11-2007, 12:50 AM

I say yes, due to the fact that Global Warming is a huge issue these days. If you watch Al Gore's Movie "An Inconvient Truth" It's quite shocking, and he has a point.

My next car if I have money will be an enviormentally friendly vehicle. Hopefully BMW Hydrogen 7 :D if it ever comes to Canada :(

rc2002

12-11-2007, 09:46 AM

Originally posted by Zero102

Big :thumbsdow to you for wishing hate on another person. Fuel is expensive enough already, let's just wish for it to go up more so I can pay even more to drive? Man, you seriously do have issues.

:rofl: Who's wishing hate on anyone? I just see a lot of upsides to prices going up, and not just for diesels. I wouldn't mind seeing gasoline prices increase too.

It'll make people smarter about how they use fuel. Fewer needless trips, fewer single driver vehicles, fewer modified cars, less polution. The cost to benefit ratio is very low!

Toms-SC

12-11-2007, 01:38 PM

Originally posted by Bimmer88
I say yes, due to the fact that Global Warming is a huge issue these days. If you watch Al Gore's Movie "An Inconvient Truth" It's quite shocking, and he has a point.

My next car if I have money will be an enviormentally friendly vehicle. Hopefully BMW Hydrogen 7 :D if it ever comes to Canada :(

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/f/f6/Ghjkl.JPG

finboy

12-11-2007, 01:45 PM

Originally posted by Toms-SC

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/f/f6/Ghjkl.JPG

http://media.southparkstudios.com/media/images/1111/1111_manbearpig_and_kyle_no_red.jpg

LilDrunkenSmurf

12-11-2007, 01:50 PM

Originally posted by Bimmer88
I say yes, due to the fact that Global Warming is a huge issue these days. If you watch Al Gore's Movie "An Inconvient Truth" It's quite shocking, and he has a point.

My next car if I have money will be an enviormentally friendly vehicle. Hopefully BMW Hydrogen 7 :D if it ever comes to Canada :(

Keep global warming out of it. It'll just cause a huge mess.

speedracer

12-11-2007, 03:29 PM

canuckcarguy

12-16-2007, 02:38 AM

Al Gore is an ass-hat. He owns three mansions, with gaslights on the driveway and heated outdoor pools, flies around in a jet airplane to environmental speeches and tells us to turn down the heat and take the bus? Fuck him. He even has the nerve to pretend he's "carbon-neutral" because he buys carbon credits - but forgets to tell everybody that he owns the company that sells the credits!

All the windbags flying to Bali for the latest UN Climate Change Conference apparently created more emissions flying there than the country of Chad produces in an entire year.

No to Aircare, or any other well-packaged tax scheme. Most people who drive cars that burn oil or are hideously out of tune don't have the money for yet another government mandated tax - why tax the poor just to make everybody feel morally superior?

85regal

12-16-2007, 01:42 PM

instead of air care, they should make it manditory to have your car inspected once a year. Stuff like brakes, tires, exhaust leaks, just safety stuff. Too many death traps on the road and to me that's a bigger concern then air care. But we all know air care will be here sooner or later.

Eleanor

12-16-2007, 05:38 PM