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View Full Version : Alberta Govt to target soaring insurance



kenny
07-04-2003, 09:59 AM
Interesting read...

http://www.canada.com/calgary/story.asp?id=40F1093F-9352-42D7-9F5D-0AA84F188D03

fulltext here:

The Alberta government will consider dramatic measures to curtail soaring insurance rates, including setting fixed payments for injuries, and lowering premiums for young drivers until they have an accident or break the rules of the road.

Establishing a payment schedule for injuries would basically usher in no-fault insurance to replace the tort system -- cutting out injury lawyers and hefty settlements as injured parties are guaranteed compensation, but can't sue for damages.

The Herald has also learned Tory MLAs will consider a hybrid no-fault system similar to what's in place in Ontario, where a schedule exists, but injured motorists are able to sue for "catastrophic" injuries, including serious brain and spinal injuries.

Insiders don't expect MLAs to embrace a full no-fault scheme, because of the heavy government involvement in regulation and the perception it takes away freedoms from people is contrary to the Tories' philosophy of hands-off governance.

During a meeting Monday in Calgary, MLAs will also consider banning insurance companies from hiking rates for drivers not at fault in an accident, or from penalizing motorists who inadvertently miss a payment or bounce a premium payment.

Tory MLA Rob Renner, chairman of an Alberta government committee looking at the insurance industry, will brief government members on recommendations during the meeting.

Feedback from caucus will form final recommendations, expected by the end of summer.

Renner would confirm little about specific proposals he'll present to his colleagues, but said two issues have to be dealt with in tandem -- insurance rates, and claims payouts.

"There are two sides to the equation," said Renner. "You want to deal with premiums, but you have to have control over what is being paid out. We want to have a situation that rewards good drivers and penalizes bad drivers."

Renner acknowledged exploding costs for young drivers is front and centre.

"We should . . . not convict someone before they have done something wrong," he said. "Maybe we say, You're fine until you've had an accident, but then you start to pay for it."

If Alberta opts for no-fault insurance, payouts for pain and suffering will be eliminated. These are identified by both the industry and government as being the root of soaring rates.

In 1986, bodily injury claims and adjustments came in at $151 million, said Jim Rivait, regional vice-president for the Insurance Bureau of Canada. That reached $725 million in 2002, with hundreds of soft tissue, hard-to-disprove injury claims winning tens of thousands of dollars.

"We believe if we don't deal with the pain and suffering amounts for the low-level, minor injuries, we're not going to be able to fix this problem," said Rivait.

Lowering rates for young drivers, and generally reducing the number of risk categories may well lead to higher rates for most.

"As a class, young drivers are in four to five more accidents than someone in their mid-40s," said Rivait. "If the company doesn't charge you very much, then all of a sudden they're hit with a $100,000 claim, do you think they'll ever get that money back?"

Rivait agreed, however, that limiting injury payouts would potentially save insurance firms from massive bills.

Premier Ralph Klein will take proposals agreed to Monday to a meeting of provincial and territorial leaders next week in Prince Edward Island. Ontario Premier Ernie Eves will also bring ideas for changing the industry.

Soaring premiums are a national problem, and came to a head as the major election issue in New Brunswick, nearly toppling Premier Bernard Lord.

A senior source in Klein's office said the premiers want to take a Canada-wide approach to combatting the problem. Eves is facing an election in the fall; the Klein government wants to solve the crisis long before heading to the polls within two years.

The government is leery of promising rates will tumble by a specific amount, promising instead to make the system "fairer."

In Nova Scotia, officials pledged cuts of 20 per cent, and are now under intense pressure to follow through.

Injury lawyers oppose no-fault insurance, which smacks of "Big Brotherism," said Ron Everard, president of the Civil Trial Lawyers' Association.

"We are hoping the government will see the merits of the existing system and not make any changes," Everard said. "Ideally, that's what we want to see for our clients."

He said a no-fault system would benefit insurance companies: "I don't want to live in a society where business, and particularly that big business, are allowed to make more money on the backs of injured people."

source: Tom Olsen; With files from Mike Sadava, CanWest News Service
Calgary Herald; CanWest News Service

rice_eater
07-04-2003, 10:08 AM
i like the idea of not increasing the teen's insurance outragelously high till they have their first accident...but after that they should burn them big time! I mean me for example i've had a couple speeding tickets and a stupid stunting ticket for doing a burnout by myself! no one around so they can say i was trying to race or anything...:banghead: either way i'm scared shitless for when i renew my insurance. However i haven't EVER had any kind of close call in the almost 4 years i've been driving and i'm actually a really good driver IMO even though i like to cruise at a bit over the speed limit...either way now i'm gonna be considered a HUGE risk to society and get bum fucked for that by the insurance company

kevie88
07-04-2003, 10:27 AM
Injury lawyers are the Spawn of Satan.. They're the reason we pay soooo much more. :guns: Fu*king ambulance chasers!! :guns:

Khyron
07-04-2003, 11:43 AM
Yah but no fault is BS too. If some asshole rear ends you and screws up your back for a few years, is 3,000 dollars really going to cover your expenses? But yah I know what you're talking about - the fucks that get doctors to lie, or they sue for pain and suffering on a broken finger and get millions.

I like the hybrid idea above - especially the part about premiums not going up unless its your fault. Seems pretty smart.

Khyron

yohan4ws
07-04-2003, 12:02 PM
I'd like to see that insurance premiums DONT go up if somebody steals your stereo or hits you parked car when your not around.

Isn't that the point of insurance? If your car blows up ... you get covered for the "book" value of your car... but ALSO your premiums go up?? ... thats BS because the book value is always lower than what you buy the car for, plus if you have golf clubs etc. in the trunk they're all written off and you get nothing.

Its a loose/loose situation with insurance. No matter what, you pay.

Honestly, though, I think that all speeding tickets should have no demerits. Stunting etc. should be no demerit tickets. Only stupid stuff like .. running stop signs, not yielding to pedestrians.. that should be demerits. Then our insurance stays low :)

There are some companies that will offer a free year to new drivers after 3years or something of driving if they have no tickets/no accidents ... but if somebody rear ends you, insurance should take care of it IMO.

my .02$

Mckenzie
07-04-2003, 12:03 PM
Originally posted by rice_eater
i like the idea of not increasing the teen's insurance outragelously high till they have their first accident...but after that they should burn them big time! I mean me for example i've had a couple speeding tickets and a stupid stunting ticket for doing a burnout by myself! no one around so they can say i was trying to race or anything...:banghead: either way i'm scared shitless for when i renew my insurance. However i haven't EVER had any kind of close call in the almost 4 years i've been driving and i'm actually a really good driver IMO even though i like to cruise at a bit over the speed limit...either way now i'm gonna be considered a HUGE risk to society and get bum fucked for that by the insurance company

You scare the hell out of me wen you drive and its people like you that cause our insurance to be what it is.

But I do agree that young drivers should be given a chance until they break the rules or whatever. I have heard that there is a company in Cali that does that for young drivers...... that was a few years ago anyways. It is not fair that they group all young drivers into categories according to the probability of an accident. They should group them according to their driving record and adjust acccordingly.

finboy
07-04-2003, 12:36 PM
god damn, my ticket doesn't come off till next year, and 1 minor fender bender (1000 or less in damage) for two years.

looks like i'll be a summer only driver :(

fast95pony
07-04-2003, 06:44 PM
I'm glad they are at least looking at the problem . I really don't care if some one looses their $20,000 sound system in their $5000 car.Cars are not really very secure places.You might as leave the system on your front lawn. And if you drive poorly and get caught, your insurance should go up.But if some one genuinely gets seriously hurt ,and it's not their fault, they should be able to get decent financial help.

Abom
07-04-2003, 06:58 PM
Another point that needs to be taken is that we need driving schools. Not this bullshit they call driving school, I mean a REAL driving school, like a European one. When I took driving school here, I was taught that you're supposed to stay in whatever lane you'll be making your next turn at. If you're making a left turn, even if it's 15 blocks down the road, you stay in the left lane the whole time, and do a couple km under the speed limit. And if someone wants to pass you, that doesn't matter, you should stay where you are. What kind of bullshit is this? :dunno:

fast95pony
07-04-2003, 07:18 PM
European driving tests are wayyy more difficult than here. My driver's test in Toronto was a complete joke . Fifeteen minutes around the block , parallel park, 3 point turn , here's your licence !! They might as well give them away in cereal boxes..

The test should be much stricter.

Abom
07-04-2003, 07:28 PM
Originally posted by fast95pony
European driving tests are wayyy more difficult than here. My driver's test in Toronto was a complete joke . Fifeteen minutes around the block , parallel park, 3 point turn , here's your licence !! They might as well give them away in cereal boxes..

The test should be much stricter.


Agreed. European tests are much more involved. The instructor wants to see that you KNOW how to drive and how to park. However, the driving tests here reflect the driving schools, so they go hand in hand. Also in Europe, driving school is mandatory by law, and the school's are governed by the government, so you don't get different class schools. I once saw a chinese (had chinese letters on the roof next to the phone number) driving school car driving on 32nd in the NE. Chinese girl who was learning to drive made a lane change without shoulder checking and nearly nailed me. Lucky for me, a cop was following behind me and stopped the driving school car.


Driving instructors and testers alike suck ass here :thumbsdow

max_boost
07-04-2003, 10:27 PM
The system has been abused, I am glad the government is taking a step forward to address the problem.

rice_eater
07-05-2003, 02:04 AM
Originally posted by fast95pony
European driving tests are wayyy more difficult than here. My driver's test in Toronto was a complete joke . Fifeteen minutes around the block , parallel park, 3 point turn , here's your licence !! They might as well give them away in cereal boxes..

The test should be much stricter.

SO SO true...was in europe last summer and my friend was getting her liscence and i was quizzing her and i had no idea how to answer over half of the questions...then she told me what they do on the actual road test and i was shocked...

Anyways what i actually wanted to bitch was insurance...When i got my insurance i asked the chick on the phone why so much and she said that that's what they evaluate my car at. So i said ok...if my car gets written off by an asshole or gets stolen is that the amount of money you would pay me? Can you guess what she said? I hate that shit with a passion!!!:thumbsdow

Abom
07-05-2003, 02:25 AM
Originally posted by rice_eater
Can you guess what she said? I hate that shit with a passion!!!:thumbsdow


Half of what it's worth? lol, fucking insurances :guns:

FiveFreshFish
07-05-2003, 02:33 AM
Originally posted by rice_eater
...if my car gets written off by an asshole or gets stolen is that the amount of money you would pay me? Can you guess what she said? I hate that shit with a passion!!!:thumbsdow

If you have the Limited Waiver of Depreciation on your insurance, they will pay out what you paid for the car within 2 years of purchase. However, this only applies to a car you bought brand new. Some Limited Waivers of Depreciation go for 30 months, afaik.

You will also get the appraised value of your car if it was insured as a classic or collectible car. There's special insurance for this that's really cheap but there are restrictions and requirements to meet before it can be insured as such.

Abom
07-05-2003, 03:05 AM
Originally posted by FiveFreshFish
If you have the Limited Waiver of Depreciation on your insurance, they will pay out what you paid for the car within 2 years of purchase. However, this only applies to a car you bought brand new. Some Limited Waivers of Depreciation go for 30 months, afaik.

You will also get the appraised value of your car if it was insured as a classic or collectible car. There's special insurance for this that's really cheap but there are restrictions and requirements to meet before it can be insured as such.


Not bad for a new car actually. Depreciation sucks, especially since it's so fast.

rice_eater
07-05-2003, 09:56 AM
i doubt my neon and over half of the cars here would quallify as either withing two years of purchase, classic or collectible...so yeah...we are getting bent over unfortunately

FiveFreshFish
07-05-2003, 10:20 AM
Originally posted by rice_eater
i doubt my neon and over half of the cars here would quallify as either withing two years of purchase, classic or collectible...so yeah...we are getting bent over unfortunately

If you think your car is worth more than what the insurance company offers for a settlement, you can challenge them. You will need to prove that your car is worth more, like getting current want ads of the same car that show its value. If you have mods and have receipts, you can provide those to add credibility to your case.

Maxt
07-05-2003, 12:17 PM
Something must be about to happen the the insurance industry is really scared about in Alberta, this morning, I got a "premium rebate " check in the mail from my insurance company, about 250 bucks at that to...Wasn't expecting that..
It must be just people below 25 that are getting screwed, looking at my renewed premium, that includes 4 vehicles and my house insurance, its now only 1004.00 $ which I think is pretty damn good for a year..Maxt

rice_eater
07-05-2003, 01:09 PM
Originally posted by Maxt
4 vehicles and my house insurance, its now only 1004.00 $ which I think is pretty damn good for a year..Maxt

How old are you??? what kind of cars? That's insanely low

Maxt
07-06-2003, 07:35 AM
Originally posted by rice_eater


How old are you??? what kind of cars? That's insanely low
Older than 25.... That is 2 Rx-7's a truck and a van with road insurance, and then theft, vandalism and fire on couple of more vehicles actually... I can't complain about my insurance costs.Maxt

rice_eater
07-06-2003, 03:56 PM
nor should you!

Super_Geo
07-07-2003, 01:27 PM
Going back a few points,

If you think about it, it makes complete sense that your premiums would go up if you got hit while parked, got vandalised or stolen-- all things that wouldn't be your fault. Insurance rates are based on probablity and chance. If you live in a the ghetto and cars get jacked every other days, you better be paying more than I am. Same goes if you're always getting your system jacked or your car vandalised.

It's how they work, and it's how they should work. Does it suck for us? Hell yes.